Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:04 AM - Wing wiring conduit (Carl Bell)
2. 07:28 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Bruce Gray)
3. 07:36 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Sam Buchanan)
4. 07:47 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Marty Helller)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Darrell Reiley)
6. 08:47 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Sam Buchanan)
7. 09:41 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
8. 09:52 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Darrell Reiley)
9. 11:15 AM - fun last Saturday (Frazier, Vincent A)
10. 12:11 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Brian Meyette)
11. 12:23 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Robin Marks)
12. 12:43 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Chuck Weyant)
13. 12:44 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Bob Collins)
14. 12:55 PM - pvc pipe (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
15. 01:05 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Bob Collins)
16. 01:21 PM - Re: pvc pipe (Sam Buchanan)
17. 01:40 PM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (linn Walters)
18. 01:54 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Chuck Jensen)
19. 03:11 PM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Michael D. Cencula)
20. 08:16 PM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Dave Nellis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Wing wiring conduit |
Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of wires
coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so could you
tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wing wiring conduit |
Local hardware store, flexible PVC tubing.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of wires
coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so could you
tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Carl Bell wrote:
> Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of wires
> coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so could you
> tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
>
Lightweight PVC pipe from your local building supply store.
Sam Buchanan
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wing wiring conduit |
1" pvc pipe....available in 10' lenghts at the Lowe or Home Depot aviation
isle
>From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell@gforcecable.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:03:15 -0400
>
>Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of wires
>coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so could you
>tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Carl,=0A=0AI like the light weight stuff Van's sells.=0A=0ADarrell=0A=0A---
-- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Carl Bell <carlbell@gforcecable.com>=0ATo:
rv-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:03:15 AM=0ASubjec
t: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit=0A=0A=0AHas anyone used any sort of wing wi
ring duct for the menagerie of wires coming from the wing tip lights, anten
na, auto pilot, etc. If so could you tell me what and where to find it? Th
=====0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________
________________________________________=0APinpoint customers who are looki
ng for what you sell. =0Ahttp://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Darrell Reiley wrote:
> Carl,
>
> I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being inexpensive, light, and
readily available, is the smooth interior which makes it *much* easier
to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling to each end of the
pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the pipe in place.
Sam Buchanan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Look no further than the Plumbing aisle at your local Lowes Depot- see:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4868_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4868)
Lots more in the archives on this topic...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4868)
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
I think both ideas are great. The split in the product Van's sell helps with wire
drop outs for autopilots, landing lights etc... I just used a vacuum cleaner,
taped a ball of cotton to the wires and sucked them through the conduit. A
small dab of anti-corrosive silicone holds everything nice and tight.
Darrell
----- Original Message ----
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:46:00 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
Darrell Reiley wrote:
> Carl,
>
> I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being inexpensive, light, and
readily available, is the smooth interior which makes it *much* easier
to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling to each end of the
pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the pipe in place.
Sam Buchanan
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
Message 9
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| Subject: | fun last Saturday |
Check this out. These are 100% real events from my life. If this stuff
ticks you off, please do something about it. I suggest writing your
elected officials, protesting in front of their offices, etc.
This is every bit as dangerous to aviation as user fees. And if you
don't agree, just look how long there has been a TFR around Washington
D.C. now. Do you think we'll ever be allowed to fly there again?
Now it appears that even legal flights are becoming illegal.
Vince
*******************************
August 28, 2007
The Honorable Evan Bayh
United States Senate
131 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-1404
Dear Senator Bayh:
I am contacting you regarding a totally unacceptable event which
occurred to me and a friend on Saturday, August 25, 2007.
I own a plane which I use for traveling throughout the Midwest. On
Saturday I flew from Evansville, IN to Benton Harbor, MI and then on to
Houghton Lake , MI. I was accompanied by a friend, who was flying his
own plane. Both planes also carried one passenger.
After assisting our passengers, who were in Houghton Lake to purchase an
aircraft, my friend and I departed and flew back to Benton Harbor, MI.
Within minutes of landing at Benton Harbor, we were detained by 2 well
armed police officers who were acting under the direction of Homeland
Security.
Homeland Security had received a report of aircraft flying near the
Palisades nuclear power plant, apparently from an observer at the plant
whose job is to watch for aircraft. The police officers asked for our
identification and recorded the registration numbers on our aircraft.
The police officers had no real indication if they were looking for our
aircraft or some other aircraft(s) who may have been the real target.
They relayed this information to Homeland Security, who gave the
officers physical descriptions of me and my friend to confirm our
identities. The officers departed after confirming our identities.
We were given no explanations as to why we were detained other than that
we had flown past the power plant, a flight that is perfectly legal to
do as I will explain below. Detainment of law abiding citizens is
completely unacceptable to me and should be to you also.
First, I realize that many areas were off limits to aircraft after 9/11
and that nuclear power plants were previously under TFRs (temporary
flight restrictions, issued by the FAA, often at the advise of Homeland
Security). These TFRs were rescinded long ago. In their place is FAA
advisory 4/0811 (reprinted below my letter for your convenience) that
admonished pilots avoid these areas anyway.
An FAA advisory has no enforcement teeth. However, FARs (federal
aviation regulations) do have teeth. The FARs (also reprinted at the
end of this letter) state that "aircraft may not be operated closer
than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." This is
the primary rule regarding flight in uncontrolled airspace. The
airspace around the Palisades nuclear power plant is uncontrolled. In
fact, the plant isn't even shown on the FAA approved sectional map used
for navigation. And we were never within 500 feet of any part of the
plant.
Because of the now rescinded TFRs and the current 4/0811 advisory I
knew EXACTLY how close I flew to the Palisades nuclear plant. As we
descended to land at Benton Harbor, traveling in a straight line with no
turns, our planes passed the plant at over 2500' AGL (above ground
level) and over 1 mile away. We were traveling at 175 mph, it could
hardly be claimed that we were loitering. This situation beats the
standard and intent of the FARs and the advisory by anyone's
interpretation!
While a 500,000 pound airliner going 500 mph might be able to burn down
a skyscraper, general aviation aircraft like mine that rarely weigh more
than 2000 pounds and rarely go faster than 200 mph are hardly a threat
to anything or anyone except the pilot and passengers! Certainly our
aircraft were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
Considering that the United States of America is now home to 12,000,000
illegal immigrants who include a large percentage of criminals,
terrorists, uneducated individuals, and other undesirables I demand to
know why Homeland Security is wasting time by detaining law abiding
citizens!?
In closing I'd really like to see the following actions from your
office:
1) Tell me what you are doing, or will do in the very near future to
keep law abiding pilots like myself from having our name added to some
data base kept in the bowels of some Homeland Security office.
2) Restructure Homeland Security immediately to deal with the HUGE
problem of illegal immigration. Otherwise Homeland Security needs to be
abolished since they seem to have no other real function aside from
harassing law abiding citizens.
3) Contact the NRC and Homeland Security and find out why they require
power plants to have employees who are apparently paid to "bird watch"
all day long. While you're asking them why they have these positions,
find out what type of training these "birdwatchers" have. Can they
really tell what a threat looks like? Obviously not!
The United States of America was built on freedom, not on detaining law
abiding citizens. Furthermore, it was built by legal immigrants, not by
undesirables infiltrating at will. Do something about it!
Sincerely,
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 daytime
FDC 4/0811 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE... THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A
PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE. IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY
AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE
AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR,
HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES,
MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
FAR Sec. 91.119
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of
1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those
cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
Message 10
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| Subject: | fun last Saturday |
Well written, Vince, and I agree with your sentiments
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frazier, Vincent A
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: fun last Saturday
Check this out. These are 100% real events from my life. If this stuff
ticks you off, please do something about it. I suggest writing your elected
officials, protesting in front of their offices, etc.
This is every bit as dangerous to aviation as user fees. And if you don't
agree, just look how long there has been a TFR around Washington D.C. now.
Do you think we'll ever be allowed to fly there again?
Now it appears that even legal flights are becoming illegal.
Vince
*******************************
August 28, 2007
The Honorable Evan Bayh
United States Senate
131 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-1404
Dear Senator Bayh:
I am contacting you regarding a totally unacceptable event which occurred to
me and a friend on Saturday, August 25, 2007.
I own a plane which I use for traveling throughout the Midwest. On Saturday
I flew from Evansville, IN to Benton Harbor, MI and then on to Houghton Lake
, MI. I was accompanied by a friend, who was flying his own plane. Both
planes also carried one passenger.
After assisting our passengers, who were in Houghton Lake to purchase an
aircraft, my friend and I departed and flew back to Benton Harbor, MI.
Within minutes of landing at Benton Harbor, we were detained by 2 well armed
police officers who were acting under the direction of Homeland Security.
Homeland Security had received a report of aircraft flying near the
Palisades nuclear power plant, apparently from an observer at the plant
whose job is to watch for aircraft. The police officers asked for our
identification and recorded the registration numbers on our aircraft. The
police officers had no real indication if they were looking for our aircraft
or some other aircraft(s) who may have been the real target. They relayed
this information to Homeland Security, who gave the officers physical
descriptions of me and my friend to confirm our identities. The officers
departed after confirming our identities.
We were given no explanations as to why we were detained other than that we
had flown past the power plant, a flight that is perfectly legal to do as I
will explain below. Detainment of law abiding citizens is completely
unacceptable to me and should be to you also.
First, I realize that many areas were off limits to aircraft after 9/11 and
that nuclear power plants were previously under TFRs (temporary flight
restrictions, issued by the FAA, often at the advise of Homeland Security).
These TFRs were rescinded long ago. In their place is FAA advisory 4/0811
(reprinted below my letter for your convenience) that admonished pilots
avoid these areas anyway.
An FAA advisory has no enforcement teeth. However, FARs (federal aviation
regulations) do have teeth. The FARs (also reprinted at the end of this
letter) state that "aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to
any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." This is the primary rule
regarding flight in uncontrolled airspace. The airspace around the
Palisades nuclear power plant is uncontrolled. In fact, the plant isn't
even shown on the FAA approved sectional map used for navigation. And we
were never within 500 feet of any part of the plant.
Because of the now rescinded TFRs and the current 4/0811 advisory I knew
EXACTLY how close I flew to the Palisades nuclear plant. As we descended to
land at Benton Harbor, traveling in a straight line with no turns, our
planes passed the plant at over 2500' AGL (above ground level) and over 1
mile away. We were traveling at 175 mph, it could hardly be claimed that we
were loitering. This situation beats the standard and intent of the FARs
and the advisory by anyone's interpretation!
While a 500,000 pound airliner going 500 mph might be able to burn down a
skyscraper, general aviation aircraft like mine that rarely weigh more than
2000 pounds and rarely go faster than 200 mph are hardly a threat to
anything or anyone except the pilot and passengers! Certainly our aircraft
were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
Considering that the United States of America is now home to 12,000,000
illegal immigrants who include a large percentage of criminals, terrorists,
uneducated individuals, and other undesirables I demand to know why
Homeland Security is wasting time by detaining law abiding citizens!?
In closing I'd really like to see the following actions from your office:
1) Tell me what you are doing, or will do in the very near future to keep
law abiding pilots like myself from having our name added to some data base
kept in the bowels of some Homeland Security office.
2) Restructure Homeland Security immediately to deal with the HUGE problem
of illegal immigration. Otherwise Homeland Security needs to be abolished
since they seem to have no other real function aside from harassing law
abiding citizens.
3) Contact the NRC and Homeland Security and find out why they require power
plants to have employees who are apparently paid to "bird watch" all day
long. While you're asking them why they have these positions, find out what
type of training these "birdwatchers" have. Can they really tell what a
threat looks like? Obviously not!
The United States of America was built on freedom, not on detaining law
abiding citizens. Furthermore, it was built by legal immigrants, not by
undesirables infiltrating at will. Do something about it!
Sincerely,
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 daytime
FDC 4/0811 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE... THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY
ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE. IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE
EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE,
OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR
COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER
SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY
OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
FAR Sec. 91.119
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000
feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of
the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases,
the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.
6:20 PM
Message 11
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| Subject: | fun last Saturday |
This is one of many reasons I prefer the legal MINIMUM size N number on
my planes.
Also of note, part of my local "tour" for friends & guests is to fly
around this beautiful ocean front point (North of Vandenberg, South of
Big Sur). Of course this is also home to a Nuclear power plant so I tend
to fly in a straight line and avoid any appearance of loitering. That
being said half of all local flight training occurs within a mile or two
of this plant. That includes hours of stalls, slow flight, standard &
steep turn training. Often several aircraft at a time.
Robin
N413RV
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
You go dude. Couldn't have said it better myself. Freedoms are eroding
and few seem to care. Lots of men (and women) have died to protect
those freedoms. Now little by little we're allowing the government to
take 'em under the guise of protecting us.
Chuck
Certainly our aircraft were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
Considering that the United States of America is now home to
12,000,000 illegal immigrants who include a large percentage of
criminals, terrorists, uneducated individuals, and other undesirables I
demand to know why Homeland Security is wasting time by detaining law
abiding citizens!?
In closing I'd really like to see the following actions from your
office:
1) Tell me what you are doing, or will do in the very near future to
keep law abiding pilots like myself from having our name added to some
data base kept in the bowels of some Homeland Security office.
2) Restructure Homeland Security immediately to deal with the HUGE
problem of illegal immigration. Otherwise Homeland Security needs to be
abolished since they seem to have no other real function aside from
harassing law abiding citizens.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
What's weird here is that the original message did NOT make it to the Web interface.
Not sure why that is.
But to this point. You know, years ago when these rights were being proposed and
taken away in the post-911 "ready-fire-aim" mentality, people who said this
would be a problem were told, "hey, if you didn't do anything wrong, you don't
have anything to worry about."
Kinda late now to change things. This is what happens when a country is run by
fear.
Lamentable, indeed. And entirely preventable. We just chose to give up our liberties.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131436#131436
Message 14
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Sam, I like your idea on the coupling for the PVC pipe to hold the pipe
in place for the wing wiring. Did you use in t-couplings inside the
wing? Also, thanks to the Possum Works for his good idea's on the 5/8
inch PVC pipe. Great.
Jim Fogarty
RV9a
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
chuck(at)chuckdirect.com wrote:
>
> Certainly our aircraft were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
>
But this is the mistake we always make when the freedoms that get eroded are "ours."
We basically say to people, "your fears are unfounded."
The whole point of terrorism isn't to destroy a country, it's to erode the sense
of safety. That's what terror is. The government knows that too, that's why
all the anti-terrorism crusade is such a show. The port security sucks. Why? Because
although it's probably more important than any other gaping hole right
now, the average person doesn't "see" it. They see airplanes. So the big show
is at the airport, while busses and trains -- more traditional targets of bombers
-- have no such show going on.
In theory, VERY few of us are likely to be "victims" of terrorists. They just
want us to "think" we are and, usually, that's good enough. We'll take care of
the rest.
The woman who called about the plane was afraid, thanks to the climate in the
country. Sure, we could waste time telling her her fears aren't real, but she's
not going to believe it.
To me, it's really a "horse has already left the barn" situation. Politicians have
played on the irrational fears of people just like that lady to get -- and
stay -- in office.
OTOH, keep in mind that it wasn't an airplane hitting a building that caused all
this. It was a 99-cent boxcutter. Who knew that a handful of themt could be
used to bring down two large buildings, put the world's greatest economy into
a recession, and start a war that will kill an additional 3,500 people.
It's all so sad but it's hear to stay. The only way to stay out of the soup now
is not to fly near nuke plants, I guess.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131441#131441
Message 16
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Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote:
> Sam, I like your idea on the coupling for the PVC pipe to hold the
> pipe in place for the wing wiring. Did you use in t-couplings inside
> the wing? Also, thanks to the Possum Works for his good idea's on
> the 5/8 inch PVC pipe. Great.
>
> Jim Fogarty RV9a
Thanks Jim, the idea certainly did not originate with me. :-)
I didn't use a tee mid-wing but I see no reason why you couldn't. When I
added the LRI I *carefully* cut a hole in the PVC mid-wing with a Dremel
so I could add the lines for the LRI probe. An existing tee would have
saved a few minutes.
Sam Buchanan
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Most of the time wire doesn't like to be pushed. If you have room at
one end, use your shop vac to suck a pulling string through the
conduit. A small piece of foam or even a piece of paper towel tied on
the end of the string is all you need.
Linn
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> Darrell Reiley wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>>
>> I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
>
>
> An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being inexpensive, light, and
> readily available, is the smooth interior which makes it *much* easier
> to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling to each end of
> the pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the pipe in place.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | fun last Saturday |
A badge on the chest and a gun on the hip makes ordinary people go
insane....at least without a lot of education and training. Bureaucrats
are equipped with both badge and gun, at least symbolically, even if
they are not physically present, thus sane behavior is not to be
expected in all cases.
In this immediate instance, I can say with certainty that nuclear plants
do not have a "bird watcher" job. Certainly, if there is a plane that
does loiter at low elevation in the vicinity of the plant, they'll take
notice as they apparently did in this case. (Speculation begins here)
They probably picked up their HS hotline and reported that a plane was
loitering in the area of the plant at a low altitude. When asked to
describe the plane, they responded that it had an engine, tail and two
wings. Since you were next to land and you EXACTLY met the description,
you became a participant to a meeting with Officialdom without a prior
appointment. Know this; you will make some gumshoe's daily report as
proof that they are busy averting "terrorism by small aircraft" and that
the world is safer because of their unstinting vigilance (or is that
vigilantism).
Of course, if you were smuggling a monkey under your hat, they would
have let you pass without questioning. Sweeeet, isn't it?
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: fun last Saturday
Well written, Vince, and I agree with your sentiments
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frazier, Vincent
A
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: fun last Saturday
Check this out. These are 100% real events from my life. If this stuff
ticks you off, please do something about it. I suggest writing your
elected officials, protesting in front of their offices, etc.
This is every bit as dangerous to aviation as user fees. And if you
don't agree, just look how long there has been a TFR around Washington
D.C. now. Do you think we'll ever be allowed to fly there again?
Now it appears that even legal flights are becoming illegal.
Vince
*******************************
August 28, 2007
The Honorable Evan Bayh
United States Senate
131 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-1404
Dear Senator Bayh:
I am contacting you regarding a totally unacceptable event which
occurred to me and a friend on Saturday, August 25, 2007.
I own a plane which I use for traveling throughout the Midwest. On
Saturday I flew from Evansville, IN to Benton Harbor, MI and then on to
Houghton Lake , MI. I was accompanied by a friend, who was flying his
own plane. Both planes also carried one passenger.
After assisting our passengers, who were in Houghton Lake to purchase an
aircraft, my friend and I departed and flew back to Benton Harbor, MI.
Within minutes of landing at Benton Harbor, we were detained by 2 well
armed police officers who were acting under the direction of Homeland
Security.
Homeland Security had received a report of aircraft flying near the
Palisades nuclear power plant, apparently from an observer at the plant
whose job is to watch for aircraft. The police officers asked for our
identification and recorded the registration numbers on our aircraft.
The police officers had no real indication if they were looking for our
aircraft or some other aircraft(s) who may have been the real target.
They relayed this information to Homeland Security, who gave the
officers physical descriptions of me and my friend to confirm our
identities. The officers departed after confirming our identities.
We were given no explanations as to why we were detained other than that
we had flown past the power plant, a flight that is perfectly legal to
do as I will explain below. Detainment of law abiding citizens is
completely unacceptable to me and should be to you also.
First, I realize that many areas were off limits to aircraft after 9/11
and that nuclear power plants were previously under TFRs (temporary
flight restrictions, issued by the FAA, often at the advise of Homeland
Security). These TFRs were rescinded long ago. In their place is FAA
advisory 4/0811 (reprinted below my letter for your convenience) that
admonished pilots avoid these areas anyway.
An FAA advisory has no enforcement teeth. However, FARs (federal
aviation regulations) do have teeth. The FARs (also reprinted at the
end of this letter) state that "aircraft may not be operated closer
than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." This is
the primary rule regarding flight in uncontrolled airspace. The
airspace around the Palisades nuclear power plant is uncontrolled. In
fact, the plant isn't even shown on the FAA approved sectional map used
for navigation. And we were never within 500 feet of any part of the
plant.
Because of the now rescinded TFRs and the current 4/0811 advisory I
knew EXACTLY how close I flew to the Palisades nuclear plant. As we
descended to land at Benton Harbor, traveling in a straight line with no
turns, our planes passed the plant at over 2500' AGL (above ground
level) and over 1 mile away. We were traveling at 175 mph, it could
hardly be claimed that we were loitering. This situation beats the
standard and intent of the FARs and the advisory by anyone's
interpretation!
While a 500,000 pound airliner going 500 mph might be able to burn down
a skyscraper, general aviation aircraft like mine that rarely weigh more
than 2000 pounds and rarely go faster than 200 mph are hardly a threat
to anything or anyone except the pilot and passengers! Certainly our
aircraft were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
Considering that the United States of America is now home to 12,000,000
illegal immigrants who include a large percentage of criminals,
terrorists, uneducated individuals, and other undesirables I demand to
know why Homeland Security is wasting time by detaining law abiding
citizens!?
In closing I'd really like to see the following actions from your
office:
1) Tell me what you are doing, or will do in the very near future to
keep law abiding pilots like myself from having our name added to some
data base kept in the bowels of some Homeland Security office.
2) Restructure Homeland Security immediately to deal with the HUGE
problem of illegal immigration. Otherwise Homeland Security needs to be
abolished since they seem to have no other real function aside from
harassing law abiding citizens.
3) Contact the NRC and Homeland Security and find out why they require
power plants to have employees who are apparently paid to "bird watch"
all day long. While you're asking them why they have these positions,
find out what type of training these "birdwatchers" have. Can they
really tell what a threat looks like? Obviously not!
The United States of America was built on freedom, not on detaining law
abiding citizens. Furthermore, it was built by legal immigrants, not by
undesirables infiltrating at will. Do something about it!
Sincerely,
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 daytime
FDC 4/0811 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE... THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A
PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE. IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY
AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE
AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR,
HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES,
MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
FAR Sec. 91.119
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of
1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those
cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
- The RV-List Email Forum -
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
On Tuesday August 28 2007 10:03:15 am Carl Bell wrote:
> Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of wires
> coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so could you
> tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
A few thoughts:
1. If you use the thin walled PVC pipe (7/8 OD), you can slide the conduit
into the wing *after* the bottom skin is on, so you don't have to worry about
bucking around an already in-place conduit.
2. If you plan the location correctly, it should be possible to use a
continuous piece of conduit that goes all the way from the wingtip into the
center of the fuselage. See http://www.our7a.com/20070331.html
3. As others have mentioned, the PVC conduit is smoother and may make it
easier to slide wires through. On the downside, it's heavier though.
Happy building,
Mike Cencula
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
To refine your cotton ball "mouse" (that's what we
electricians call it), use a baggie instead. Make a
small balloon in one corner and tie the balloon off
with a piece of string. Leave long tails on the
string and tie the wires to the tails. Poke a small
hole in the plastic bag near the tie. Suck it through
with a vacuum. The suction pressure differential and
the small hole inflate the bag creating a seal. Don't
wrap your fingers around the wire, because that
baggie balloon will fly though the conduit like a
shotand take your fingers with it.
Dave
--- Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
>
> I think both ideas are great. The split in the
> product Van's sell helps with wire drop outs for
> autopilots, landing lights etc... I just used a
> vacuum cleaner, taped a ball of cotton to the wires
> and sucked them through the conduit. A small dab of
> anti-corrosive silicone holds everything nice and
> tight.
>
> Darrell
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:46:00 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
>
>
> <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Darrell Reiley wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
>
> An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being
> inexpensive, light, and
> readily available, is the smooth interior which
> makes it *much* easier
> to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling
> to each end of the
> pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the
> pipe in place.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>
>
>
> browse
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