Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Darrell Reiley)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Chuck Jensen)
3. 07:26 AM - Re: fun last Saturday (N395V)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: fun last Saturday (Bob Collins)
5. 08:51 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Randy Lervold)
6. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: fun last Saturday (Tracy Crook)
7. 09:52 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Bill VonDane)
8. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: fun last Saturday (Chuck Jensen)
9. 11:09 AM - Re: Wing wiring conduit (Herron, Al)
10. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: fun last Saturday (Mickey Coggins)
11. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: fun last Saturday (Joseph Larson)
12. 01:43 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (Bob Collins)
13. 04:23 PM - Re: fun last Saturday (George P. Tyler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
What an awesome idea! I can't wait to try it... :-)
Thanks, I'm filing this one under 'Builder Notes' for sure.
Darrell
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:15:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
To refine your cotton ball "mouse" (that's what we
electricians call it), use a baggie instead. Make a
small balloon in one corner and tie the balloon off
with a piece of string. Leave long tails on the
string and tie the wires to the tails. Poke a small
hole in the plastic bag near the tie. Suck it through
with a vacuum. The suction pressure differential and
the small hole inflate the bag creating a seal. Don't
wrap your fingers around the wire, because that
baggie balloon will fly though the conduit like a
shotand take your fingers with it.
Dave
--- Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
>
> I think both ideas are great. The split in the
> product Van's sell helps with wire drop outs for
> autopilots, landing lights etc... I just used a
> vacuum cleaner, taped a ball of cotton to the wires
> and sucked them through the conduit. A small dab of
> anti-corrosive silicone holds everything nice and
> tight.
>
> Darrell
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:46:00 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
>
>
> <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Darrell Reiley wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
>
> An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being
> inexpensive, light, and
> readily available, is the smooth interior which
> makes it *much* easier
> to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling
> to each end of the
> pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the
> pipe in place.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Wing wiring conduit |
Dave is right about the warning " Don't wrap your fingers around the
wire, because that baggie balloon will fly though the conduit like a
shot and take your fingers with it."
Stubby
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nellis
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
To refine your cotton ball "mouse" (that's what we
electricians call it), use a baggie instead. Make a
small balloon in one corner and tie the balloon off
with a piece of string. Leave long tails on the
string and tie the wires to the tails. Poke a small
hole in the plastic bag near the tie. Suck it through
with a vacuum. The suction pressure differential and
the small hole inflate the bag creating a seal. Don't
wrap your fingers around the wire, because that
baggie balloon will fly though the conduit like a
shotand take your fingers with it.
Dave
--- Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
>
> I think both ideas are great. The split in the
> product Van's sell helps with wire drop outs for
> autopilots, landing lights etc... I just used a
> vacuum cleaner, taped a ball of cotton to the wires
> and sucked them through the conduit. A small dab of anti-corrosive
> silicone holds everything nice and tight.
>
> Darrell
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:46:00 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
>
>
> <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Darrell Reiley wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I like the light weight stuff Van's sells.
>
> An advantage of the PVC pipe, besides being
> inexpensive, light, and
> readily available, is the smooth interior which
> makes it *much* easier
> to push wire through the conduit. I glued a coupling
> to each end of the
> pipe outboard of the root and tip ribs to hold the
> pipe in place.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
> In theory, VERY few of us are likely to be "victims" of terrorists. They just
want us to "think" we are and, usually, that's good enough. We'll take care of
the rest.
>
> The woman who called about the plane was afraid, thanks to the climate in the
country. Sure, we could waste time telling her her fears aren't real, but she's
not going to believe it.
>
> To me, it's really a "horse has already left the barn" situation. Politicians
have played on the irrational fears of people just like that lady to get -- and
stay -- in office.
>
> OTOH, keep in mind that it wasn't an airplane hitting a building that caused
all this. It was a 99-cent boxcutter. Who knew that a handful of themt could be
used to bring down two large buildings, put the world's greatest economy into
a recession, and start a war that will kill an additional 3,500 people.
>
> It's all so sad but it's hear to stay. The only way to stay out of the soup now
is not to fly near nuke plants, I guess.
>
As far apart as Bob and I are on the political spectrum I could not have said it
better myself.
It is not terrorists I fear it is my own government.
All politicians spend all of their time maintaing power and none of their time
resolving problems.
Do not archive
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131561#131561
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
//As far apart as Bob and I are on the political spectrum I could not have
said it better myself.
Well, that's another story, the political labelling. Everyone has a need,
for some reason, to define people politically. Personally, I don't get it.
On some issues, I guess I'm a liberal... On some issues, I guess I'm a
conservative. Personally, I think most people are that way. Add it all up,
and we're in the middle. But the labelling is a first step in the
discrediting so that we won't actually have to engage in any sort of
intellectual discussion on the policies of this country while they're being
formed.
I don't fear my government as much as I fear the stupidity of people who are
too enslaved to their political parties that demand ONE thought on
everything to have been concerned about it when their concern could have
made a difference. Politics in this country is far too much like a religion
for people.
It's not like people weren't warning us that this would happen. It's just
that they were, you know, "those" people. The ones that got labelled so we
didn't have to actually THINK about what we were doing when we were so
afraid that we were far too willing to put a blowtorch to the constitution.
Put me down for a giant shoulder shrug.
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
I'll be the odd man out here and say that I prefer NOT to use conduit at
all. I use snap bushings through the wing ribs then a small piece of
spiral wrap around the bundle between the ribs. This lets you visually
inspect the wires, keeps heat from building up, is lighter weight, and
lets wires exit the bundle anywhere you like. Yes, you can reach inside
through the inspection covers to install/remove the 1-2" pieces of
spiral wrap in order to change/add a wire. I've used this with two RVs
now and wouldn't consider any other way. Lastly, any of the conduit
mentioned gives off nasty fumes if it ever burns which is why we use
Tefzel wire. Why add another material with poor fire qualities when you
don't need to?
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Bell
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie of
wires coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If so
could you tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Amen Bob.
Whether by design or just the way politics works, people who are out of the
"mainstream" are going to get their liberties taken away in a society where
individual rights are not valued. We tend to notice the loss of
this particular liberty because flying puts us out of the mainstream but we
totally ignore the injustice in areas where we *are* mainstream.
Wrong forum to elaborate on this but those who tend to be out of the
mainstream in a lot of areas are in for some bad times. The ones who
conform are going to find themselves in an uncomfortable shrinking box but
they figure that is a reasonable price to pay for security.
Getting rather cynical as I age, so I say a pox on all of us. We always get
the government we deserve. Or as someone once said, "People should get
what they want, and I want them to get it good and hard."
Tracy Crook (venting mode)
Do Not Archive
>
> "But this is the mistake we always make when the freedoms that get eroded
> are "ours." We basically say to people, "your fears are unfounded.""
> --------
> Bob Collins
> St. Paul, Minn.
> RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
> http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131441#131441
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
Ok, since I didn't want to be the only one here I waited for Randy to
say something... ;)
I did the same thing; used snap in bushings and no conduit... You can
easily rout wires through the end of the wing and the access panels with
no problem... Why add weight when you don't have to!?
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - N8WV - 1059 empty weight!
www.rv8a.com
> Randy Lervold wrote:
>> I'll be the odd man out here and say that I prefer NOT to use
conduit at all. I use snap bushings through the wing ribs then a small
piece of spiral wrap around the bundle between the ribs. This lets you
visually inspect the wires, keeps heat from building up, is lighter
weight, and lets wires exit the bundle anywhere you like. Yes, you can
reach inside through the inspection covers to install/remove the 1-2"
pieces of spiral wrap in order to change/add a wire. I've used this with
two RVs now and wouldn't consider any other way. Lastly, any of the
conduit mentioned gives off nasty fumes if it ever burns which is why we
use Tefzel wire. Why add another material with poor fire qualities when
you don't need to?
>>
>> Randy Lervold
>> www.rv-3.com
>> www.rv-8.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carl Bell
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:03 AM
>> Subject: RV-List: Wing wiring conduit
>>
>> Has anyone used any sort of wing wiring duct for the menagerie
of wires coming from the wing tip lights, antenna, auto pilot, etc. If
so could you tell me what and where to find it? Thx CJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Milt wrote...
As far apart as Bob and I are on the political spectrum I could not have
said it better myself. It is not terrorists I fear it is my own
government. All politicians spend all of their time maintaing power and
none of their time resolving problems.
....and what little time they have left, they spend in the bathroom at
airports....
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing wiring conduit |
What I like even better than PVC pipe is the black plastic tubing for
drip irrigation systems. It's 5/8" OD, with a very thin wall. It's
tough, lightweight, and flexible enough to go around mild bends (it will
kink if you try to go tighter than about a 10" radius). I've used it
both in the wings and the fuselage.
Al Herron
RV-7A
Been dang near done for some time.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> ....and what little time they have left, they spend in the bathroom at
> airports....
...with a "wide stance". :)
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
I would echo some of the comments regarding freedoms, but the blanket
statements about politicians are just a wee bit over-reaching. Most
politicians are trying to do the right thing for the country, whether
you agree with their definition of "right" or not. Go to the web
site of any of your members of Congress and look at what they do.
They aren't just out looking for re-election.
If you want to roll back the losses in freedoms, talk to the
politicians during election year and toss out the ones who would
erase freedoms.
-J
>
> do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Good advice. I would only add that another thing is to start paying attention.
Give a rip about user fees when they're not about airplanes. Give a rip about
rights, when they're not talking about the ones you're interested in. And stop
listening to the people who tell you what to think. That creates a culture that
doesn't bother with the process of weighing both sides and coming to one's
own conclusion.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://rvhotline.expercraft.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131639#131639
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Ya Gata love it, thanks for sending that letter too few of us do, we
just mutter under our breath. George
----- Original Message -----
From: Frazier, Vincent A
To: william hilling
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: fun last Saturday
Check this out. These are 100% real events from my life. If this
stuff ticks you off, please do something about it. I suggest writing
your elected officials, protesting in front of their offices, etc.
This is every bit as dangerous to aviation as user fees. And if you
don't agree, just look how long there has been a TFR around Washington
D.C. now. Do you think we'll ever be allowed to fly there again?
Now it appears that even legal flights are becoming illegal.
Vince
*******************************
August 28, 2007
The Honorable Evan Bayh
United States Senate
131 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-1404
Dear Senator Bayh:
I am contacting you regarding a totally unacceptable event which
occurred to me and a friend on Saturday, August 25, 2007.
I own a plane which I use for traveling throughout the Midwest. On
Saturday I flew from Evansville, IN to Benton Harbor, MI and then on to
Houghton Lake , MI. I was accompanied by a friend, who was flying his
own plane. Both planes also carried one passenger.
After assisting our passengers, who were in Houghton Lake to purchase
an aircraft, my friend and I departed and flew back to Benton Harbor,
MI. Within minutes of landing at Benton Harbor, we were detained by 2
well armed police officers who were acting under the direction of
Homeland Security.
Homeland Security had received a report of aircraft flying near the
Palisades nuclear power plant, apparently from an observer at the plant
whose job is to watch for aircraft. The police officers asked for our
identification and recorded the registration numbers on our aircraft.
The police officers had no real indication if they were looking for our
aircraft or some other aircraft(s) who may have been the real target.
They relayed this information to Homeland Security, who gave the
officers physical descriptions of me and my friend to confirm our
identities. The officers departed after confirming our identities.
We were given no explanations as to why we were detained other than
that we had flown past the power plant, a flight that is perfectly legal
to do as I will explain below. Detainment of law abiding citizens is
completely unacceptable to me and should be to you also.
First, I realize that many areas were off limits to aircraft after
9/11 and that nuclear power plants were previously under TFRs
(temporary flight restrictions, issued by the FAA, often at the advise
of Homeland Security). These TFRs were rescinded long ago. In their
place is FAA advisory 4/0811 (reprinted below my letter for your
convenience) that admonished pilots avoid these areas anyway.
An FAA advisory has no enforcement teeth. However, FARs (federal
aviation regulations) do have teeth. The FARs (also reprinted at the
end of this letter) state that "aircraft may not be operated closer
than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." This is
the primary rule regarding flight in uncontrolled airspace. The
airspace around the Palisades nuclear power plant is uncontrolled. In
fact, the plant isn't even shown on the FAA approved sectional map used
for navigation. And we were never within 500 feet of any part of the
plant.
Because of the now rescinded TFRs and the current 4/0811 advisory I
knew EXACTLY how close I flew to the Palisades nuclear plant. As we
descended to land at Benton Harbor, traveling in a straight line with no
turns, our planes passed the plant at over 2500' AGL (above ground
level) and over 1 mile away. We were traveling at 175 mph, it could
hardly be claimed that we were loitering. This situation beats the
standard and intent of the FARs and the advisory by anyone's
interpretation!
While a 500,000 pound airliner going 500 mph might be able to burn
down a skyscraper, general aviation aircraft like mine that rarely weigh
more than 2000 pounds and rarely go faster than 200 mph are hardly a
threat to anything or anyone except the pilot and passengers! Certainly
our aircraft were NO threat to a nuclear power plant!
Considering that the United States of America is now home to
12,000,000 illegal immigrants who include a large percentage of
criminals, terrorists, uneducated individuals, and other undesirables I
demand to know why Homeland Security is wasting time by detaining law
abiding citizens!?
In closing I'd really like to see the following actions from your
office:
1) Tell me what you are doing, or will do in the very near future to
keep law abiding pilots like myself from having our name added to some
data base kept in the bowels of some Homeland Security office.
2) Restructure Homeland Security immediately to deal with the HUGE
problem of illegal immigration. Otherwise Homeland Security needs to be
abolished since they seem to have no other real function aside from
harassing law abiding citizens.
3) Contact the NRC and Homeland Security and find out why they require
power plants to have employees who are apparently paid to "bird watch"
all day long. While you're asking them why they have these positions,
find out what type of training these "birdwatchers" have. Can they
really tell what a threat looks like? Obviously not!
The United States of America was built on freedom, not on detaining
law abiding citizens. Furthermore, it was built by legal immigrants,
not by undesirables infiltrating at will. Do something about it!
Sincerely,
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 daytime
FDC 4/0811 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE... THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A
PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE. IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY
AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE
AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR,
HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES,
MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT
CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
FAR Sec. 91.119
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an
emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the
surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of
1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those
cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
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