Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:26 AM - nuke plant (Frazier, Vincent A)
2. 06:29 AM - p-mag manifold pressure leak (Bill Boyd)
3. 06:34 AM - Homeland Security = gestapo (Frazier, Vincent A)
4. 06:40 AM - Homeland again (Frazier, Vincent A)
5. 07:07 AM - OMG! What is your deal? (Frazier, Vincent A)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Bill Boyd)
7. 07:33 AM - Re: Homeland again (Joseph Larson)
8. 07:50 AM - Re: Questions on O-320-D2A Sump Drains and a Slick Mag (Charles Heathco)
9. 07:51 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Joseph Larson)
10. 07:59 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Bob Collins)
11. 08:03 AM - Re: Precision Airmotive Eagle EMS (Ron Lee)
12. 08:17 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Dale Walter)
13. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: OMG! What is your deal? (ptrotter@optonline.net)
14. 08:35 AM - Re: fun last Saturday (Travis)
15. 08:39 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Bill Boyd)
16. 09:17 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Bob Collins)
17. 09:26 AM - I know this is a mistake, but..... (Copperhead)
18. 09:40 AM - GA-56 Garmin GPS antenna failure (Steve Chambers)
19. 09:40 AM - GPS Antenna Failure (Steve Chambers)
20. 10:02 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Bob Collins)
21. 10:04 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (robert stone)
22. 10:18 AM - Re: GPS Antenna Failure (Walter Tondu)
23. 10:37 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Dale Walter)
24. 10:47 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Travis)
25. 11:08 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Bob Collins)
26. 11:16 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Terry Watson)
27. 11:31 AM - Re:GPS Antenna Failure (Rick Galati)
28. 11:33 AM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Bob Collins)
29. 11:39 AM - Air oil suction gismo (Michael W Stewart)
30. 11:42 AM - Re: OMG! What is your deal? (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
31. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... ()
32. 12:00 PM - Re: Air oil suction gismo (linn Walters)
33. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Kevin Horton)
34. 12:10 PM - Re: Air oil suction gismo ()
35. 12:55 PM - Re: Questions on O-320-D2A Sump Drains and a Slick Mag (Dale Ensing)
36. 01:02 PM - Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Bob Collins)
37. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Kevin Horton)
38. 07:18 PM - Re: nuke plant (Robin Marks)
39. 10:34 PM - nukes (Wheeler North)
Message 1
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Dale,
There is a nuke plant about 5-10 miles south AND about 5-10 miles north
of Benton Harbor, MI. Right on the shore.
Thanks,
Vince Frazier
Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839
http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm
Message 2
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| Subject: | p-mag manifold pressure leak |
I developed an obvious MP line leak over the last few flights (rough
low-speed idle followed by unrealistically high MP readings at partial
throttle, trending worse over the course of several flight hours), which I
have traced back to somewhere inside the right P-mag in my installation.
The transducer and GRT EIS-2000 set-up reads from ~5 to ~35 in. Hg pressure
when I attach a syringe straight to the transducer and push/pull a bit. The
entire manifold pressure system holds pressure well when I remove the stub
line to the right P-mag and cover the end with my thumb, attaching syringe
to the hose that normally goes to primer port on cylinder 3. But if I
attach the syringe to the MP port on the right P-Mag, it leaks like the
proverbial sieve. The other P-mag holds pressure to its MP input very well.
I will attempt to contact Brad at Emagair today; just wondered if this was a
previously reported failure mode. I have the original design
orange-anodized boxy-looking Pmags on my O-320. Clearly there's a hole
inside there somewhere.
Bill Boyd RV-6A 677 hrs.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Homeland Security = gestapo |
SNIP "No one was arrested, tossed in jail without a hearing or bail nor
beaten to a pulp.
Detained, questioned & released, exactly what I would have done and
expect
the "Thin Blue Line" to continue to do." SNIP
OMG, you can't be serious. Since when do you stop a U.S.citizen without
even knowing who you're looking for!? They had no clue who they were
looking for. Trust me, there were LOTS of other airplane in the area!
There were others in the pattern!!
I thought that Homeland Security was a BAD idea from the start. A U.S.
version of the gestapo. I think that the quote goes something like
"Those who will trade freedom for security will have neither."
Vince
Message 4
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SNIP "I didn't notice a time duration on the length of the "detainment".
There's a big difference between 10 minutes to verify some
information vs. several hours." SNIP
OMG again. No there's not a time difference. There's a difference
between being detained and being left alone. The next time you're being
held by 2 officers with Glocks and Tazers at their side, you just go
ahead and decide if you want to leave when you're ready or when they're
ready. Rots o' ruck if you decide to leave early.
Vince
Message 5
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| Subject: | OMG! What is your deal? |
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a
few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the
latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know
it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel
would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact
the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the
media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however
passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out
online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken
the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier@usi.edu> wrote:
>
>
> SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
>
> come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
> time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
> almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
> other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
> and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
> me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
> don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
>
> Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
> closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
> And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
> attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
> notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
> least see who it was. And that's what they did.
> -Joe " Snip
>
> Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
> straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
> was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
> post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
> not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
> plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
> circling or lingering in the area is it?
>
> And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
> they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
> idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
> is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
> opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
> incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
>
> My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
> that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
> got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
> the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
> Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
> minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
>
> So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
> with your senators and congressmen!
>
> Vince
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Homeland again |
To avoid the list police, I was going to let this rest, but Vince
replied to my post.
I've *been asked* for my ID when I was somewhere that made someone
else nervous. I had cops ask me who I was and why I was where I
was. They listened to what I had to say and left. They had guns.
They had handcuffs. It was a few years ago, so probably no tasers,
but who cares?
It's no big deal. Are you that frightened of our police officers
that being asked for your ID has you trembling in your boots?
They asked him for ID and checked back with the folks who were
concerned to make sure there wasn't an issue. We don't know how long
the entire process lasted, but if it was 5 minutes, it's no big deal.
They didn't rough him up or throw him in some deep, dark cell. They
didn't threaten him or pull out his fingernails or cart him away in
the middle of the night.
If you want to get all worked up, get worked up over abuses of power
-- like the incidents in New York that were already mentioned. Or
the guy who had his plane confiscated for landing on the wrong lake.
Or any of a large number of other examples of abuse of authority.
There was no abuse.
At no point did the original poster even suggest the cops were
anything other than completely polite and non-threatening, so we
shouldn't assume anything else.
The cops DID THEIR JOBS.
Sheesh.
-J
Definitely do not archive
On Aug 31, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Frazier, Vincent A wrote:
>
>
> SNIP "I didn't notice a time duration on the length of the
> "detainment".
>
> There's a big difference between 10 minutes to verify some
> information vs. several hours." SNIP
>
> OMG again. No there's not a time difference. There's a difference
> between being detained and being left alone. The next time you're
> being
> held by 2 officers with Glocks and Tazers at their side, you just go
> ahead and decide if you want to leave when you're ready or when
> they're
> ready. Rots o' ruck if you decide to leave early.
>
> Vince
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Questions on O-320-D2A Sump Drains and a Slick Mag |
Re grounding, ground at mag end only I was told, if both you will get
noise Charlie H
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
Ah, this is the O.P. Interesting you haven't told us how long they
talked to you. Interesting that you are assuming that because they
talked to you, they were ready to shoot you. Interesting that you
didn't know where the power station was prior to your flight (had to
look it up), but you know for sure you were at least a mile away.
I never suggested you did anything illegally. No one has suggested
that. But you were somewhere that made someone nervous, and the
police checked to see who you were. That's all they did -- they
checked to see who flew within 20 seconds (1 mile at RV speeds) of a
nuclear power plant.
Did they point their guns or tazers at you?
Were they rude and scream at you?
I think you're over-reacting. And you're most definitely trying to
sensationalize this, suggesting the cops were willing to do things
they didn't remotely do or threaten to do.
-Joe
do not archive
On Aug 31, 2007, at 9:07 AM, Frazier, Vincent A wrote:
>
> SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he
> didn't
>
> come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
> time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
> almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
> other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
> and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
> me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
> don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
>
> Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
> closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
> And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
> attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
> notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
> least see who it was. And that's what they did.
> -Joe " Snip
>
> Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
> straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the
> air
> was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
> post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators
> and
> not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
> plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph.
> Hardly
> circling or lingering in the area is it?
>
> And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
> they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
> idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke
> plant
> is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
> opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
> incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
>
> My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the
> area is
> that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were.
> And we
> got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next
> time
> the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
> Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for
> 5-10
> minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
>
> So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise
> hell
> with your senators and congressmen!
>
> Vince
Message 10
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| Subject: | OMG! What is your deal? |
The only time I was ever in a nuclear plant was in the late 70s -- the
Millstone plant in Connecticut. I was on a press tour and we got on an
elevator and when the doors opened, there were all these women (and men,
though I didn't notice immediately) walking around in their underwear.
It was then and there that I decided if this radio stuff didn't work out, I
would become a nuclear engineer. (g)
How 'bout them RVs.
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a
few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the
latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know
it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel
would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact
the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the
media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however
passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out
online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken
the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier@usi.edu> wrote:
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Precision Airmotive Eagle EMS |
Another opinion. This is from today's AOPA newsletter. Note the part
about the FADEC resetting.
DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE PROMPTS DIAMOND AD PROPOSAL
The FAA is proposing an airworthiness directive (AD) for the Diamond
DA42 Twin Star. The AD would require additional backup batteries for the
full authority digital engine controls (FADECs) on TAE125-01 and
TAE125-02-99 engines. This action was prompted by the in-flight shutdown
of both TAE 125-01 engines on a DA42 flying over Germany in March. The
pilot of the aircraft took off with an insufficiently charged aircraft
battery. During a moment of low voltage when the aircraft's landing gear
was retracting, the FADEC reset. This shut down the engines and caused
the propeller blades to feather. Diamond has said that it will cover the
cost of the battery installation, regardless of an AD. For more
information, see Diamond's service bulleti! n."
Source AOPA ePilot, Volume 9, Issue 35 . August 31, 2007
Message 12
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| Subject: | OMG! What is your deal? |
How many want to know why they were walking around in their underwear? I do.
Please explain. (Bert cover your eyes and ears ;)
Thanks,
Dale
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
The only time I was ever in a nuclear plant was in the late 70s -- the
Millstone plant in Connecticut. I was on a press tour and we got on an
elevator and when the doors opened, there were all these women (and men,
though I didn't notice immediately) walking around in their underwear.
It was then and there that I decided if this radio stuff didn't work out, I
would become a nuclear engineer. (g)
How 'bout them RVs.
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as you do, and a
few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never convince the
latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former already know
it is.
Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke containment vessel
would likely be unaware of the event until later should your plane impact
the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever hysteria the
media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however
passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this played out
online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by trying to waken
the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
-Stormy
On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A <VFrazier@usi.edu> wrote:
SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
least see who it was. And that's what they did.
-Joe " Snip
Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
circling or lingering in the area is it?
And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
with your senators and congressmen!
Vince
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
We have a nuclear power plant in the city I live in. I'll have to look into this
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Walter
Subject: RE: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
> How many want to know why they were walking around in their
> underwear? I do.
> Please explain. (Bert cover your eyes and ears ;)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dale
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:59 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
>
>
>
> The only time I was ever in a nuclear plant was in the late 70s -
> - the
> Millstone plant in Connecticut. I was on a press tour and we got
> on an
> elevator and when the doors opened, there were all these women
> (and men,
> though I didn't notice immediately) walking around in their underwear.
>
>
>
> It was then and there that I decided if this radio stuff didn't
> work out, I
> would become a nuclear engineer. (g)
>
>
>
> How 'bout them RVs.
>
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:30 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
>
> Vince: there's two types here- the "choir" who already feel as
> you do, and a
> few sheeple who've already had their Kool-Aid. You will never
> convince the
> latter that erosion of liberty is their concern, and the former
> already know
> it is.
>
> Most of us know that the people working inside a nuke
> containment vessel
> would likely be unaware of the event until later should your
> plane impact
> the wall at 200 mph, but others imbibe and regurge whatever
> hysteria the
> media dishes out. Stirring the pot here will not settle much, however
> passionately you feel what you have written. I've seen this
> played out
> online enough times to be cynical that you will gain much by
> trying to waken
> the sheep from their pleasant slumber. I wish it were not so...
>
> -Stormy
>
> On 8/31/07, Frazier, Vincent A wrote:
>
>
> SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he
> didn't
>
> come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
> time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
> almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
> other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice
> day,
> and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
> me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
> don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
>
> Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
> closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
> And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
> attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
> notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable
> to at
> least see who it was. And that's what they did.
> -Joe " Snip
>
> Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
> straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying,
> the air
> was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
> post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their
> senators and
> not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we
> passed the
> plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph.
> Hardlycircling or lingering in the area is it?
>
> And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
> they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what
> any
> idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a
> nuke plant
> is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is
> also the
> opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after
> the
> incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
>
> My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the
> area is
> that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were.
> And we
> got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe
> next time
> the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
> Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body
> for 5-10
> minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
>
> So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will
> raise hell
> with your senators and congressmen!
>
> Vince
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fun last Saturday |
Bob Collins wrote:
> Personally, I'm kind of a fan of the existence of "probable cause" before being
detained.
Bob,
Just as an FYI, I don't want to make this a LONG debate, just for educational purposes.
The police do NOT need probable cause to detain anyone. Detention by
law enforcement merely requires reasonable suspicion. There is a HUGE difference.
There have been thousands of cases that have addressed this issue and
the supreme court has revisited it MANY times and consistently rules that only
reasonable suspicion is required for detention. On another note, probable cause
IS REQUIRED for arrest, the difference in arrest and detention is largely
misunderstood by the general public. As for detention, I would strongly advise
anyone against refusing to identify themself to law enforcement during a detention,
you will probably end up being arrested, as most states require that a
person wholely & truthfully identify themselves in the case of a detention based
upon reasonable suspicion.
More importantly, as a condition of executing your priviledge of acting as PIC,
or otherwise as a pilot, the FARs require that you identify yourself to the FAA
or ANY other law enforcement upon request. I can assure you that a pilot that
refuses to identify himself to law enforcement when he is in or about the
area of aircraft that he could be piloting could end up with VERY serious enforcement
action against him by the FAA. I would estimate, baring other mitigating
circumstance, that said pilot should expect many many months of a suspended
pilots license. I know this seems strange, maybe even unfair, but this is an
absolute requirement under the FARs.
I do not work for the FAA, in fact I would prefer to never deal with them, but
I can asure you that everything I have just stated is 100% accurate.
Travis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132037#132037
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
>> Interesting that you
> didn't know where the power station was prior to your flight (had to
> look it up), but you know for sure you were at least a mile away.<<
Flight track memory in a mapping GPS is a wonderful thing ;-) Especially in
a day and age where our liberties vanish at the whim of some "nervous"
citizen. Save your track memory until this is resolved, Vince; perhaps
indefinitely. It proves where you've been and where you haven't. You do
have a mapping GPS, don't you?
-Stormy
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
dale1rv6(at)comcast.net wrote:
> How many want to know why they were walking around in their underwear? I do.
Please explain. (Bert cover your eyes and ears ;)
> Thanks,
> Dale
>
YOu know, oddly enough, we asked that same question. As it was explained to us,
nothing left that particular room....and everyone had to be decontaminated, so
they basically shed their clothes and stripped down to their underwear.
I guess there wasn't a locker room per se.
We were told at the time that the people didn't mind being seen in their underwear,
because they were all ex-Navy people, which immediately cast the Navy in
a better light than say, Army, in my view.
The plant itself became a flashpoint in the nuclear debate when some of the workers
raised safety concerns and management retaliated against them in return.
All three plants were shut down for over a year.
Still, I will always have a warm spot in my... heart... for that place.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132050#132050
Message 17
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| Subject: | I know this is a mistake, but..... |
I can't help myself. Like everyone else, I hate to see non RV related
discussions carry on for a week or more but I feel I must present the other
side to this conversation.
I have been a member of the lists for a couple of years, albeit a lurker. I
am also a student pilot, an RV-9A builder and a Police Lieutenant with 23
years on the force. The information I have gleaned from those far wiser and
more experienced than I, from this list, well I could never afford to pay
for and appreciate. I respect each and every member of the forum and each
brings his/her own style and expertise to the group. Having said that, let
me add the small amount of expertise I can offer to the group.
We CONSTANTLY get reports of potential crimes which are in progress or have
just occurred. We have an obligation to investigate each and every one of
them to the best of our ability. Many are erroneous for a many myriad of
reasons, but they require we do something or otherwise we are accused of
doing nothing. If you report suspicious activity, you expect us to follow
up on the information you supply...right? If not then we are called fat,
lazy, donut eating bums whom you can't rely on.
During these initial investigations we encounter normal, everyday people
just making their way through life without a clue anything is going on, we
don't know that. We have a description of a person, vehicle, etc. and we
contact them not knowing whether they are just what they pretending to be,
or loaded with anger and /or purpose just looking for a place to dump it.
The circumstances of the report we are given (which can vary greatly)
dictate how we handle the situation.
Most times it is simply a stop, explain the situation, identify everyone
involved, satisfy ourselves that you are not of the criminal milieu and move
on. THIS is called a detention or a detainment and does not require
probable cause, merely reasonable suspicion. You fit the description, the
timing is right, etc. so we intervene. The length of time must be
reasonable for the situation involved. On the other hand, if more evidence,
information, etc. leads that you were involved, it could result in one being
taken into custody (technically an arrest). This requires probable cause
which is facts, and circumstances which would lead a prudent man to believe
that a crime has been committed and the person(s) you have detained may have
committed the crime. This is vastly different from a investigative
detention in which no one is being seized, simply detained and identified,
which the courts have ruled you have to provide.
If we have a report of a robbery (for example) and the suspects left in a
blue Chevy, you can bet we are going to stop every blue Chevy which we see
leaving the area, which could vary depending on response time of all
Officers. In this particular case, I can see a report of a small plane
acting suspicious around a protected area could result in all aircraft
landing in a specific timeframe area being detained and identified.
Now was the report justified? Was it a result of someone being paranoid or
not knowing what the heck they were talking about? Was it some jealous,
jilted girlfriend who knew her ex was out flying and called it in to cause
him problems? Was it a couple of "sheetheads" out doing surveillance from
the air trying to access the possible vulnerability of a nuclear power
plant? Things are not always as they appear and evil people are good at
making things appear normal. That is their job and they live it 24/7. No
one knows until it is checked out and who draws the short straw for
this...the Police. Imagine the uproar if we did nothing and all the while a
plan was afoot?
Just like after 9-11, law enforcement didn't do enough to protect us from
the event so a new plan was devised. Now we are overzealous, jack booted
thugs who only want to erode the rights of the people so the will of the
government can prevail and we can all be reduced to mere paupers peering out
of dark places in fear. Someone used the example of the 85 year old
grandmother being treated the same as someone else. I know it sounds
utterly ridiculous to normal people, but we see elderly people constantly
smuggling copious amounts of illegal substances. One of the largest
cocaine dealers I ever arrested in this area was 78 years old. As I said,
people up to no good constantly try to find ways to circumvent the
procedures currently in place by any means necessary and nearly everyone is
corruptible if the money is right. It is our responsibility to sniff them
out while all the time trying to utilize common sense, not let someone slip
through, and not get killed.
Don't get me wrong, there is a butt load of problems with this society and I
wholeheartedly agree that the greedy politicians don't have our best
interests in mind. I also agree that we as a nation have digressed, are our
losing our rights, our standing as a global power and the one everyone looks
up to for "doing the right thing". Its the same ole human story since the
beginning of time and has become all about sex, money and power and we let
our representatives on every level be consumed by it.
The point to this dribble being, its not necessarily the Police. Sure there
are hotdogs, untrained, uneducated and overzealous Officers who shouldn't be
allowed to play with sharp objects, let alone carry a gun, but they are a
minority and with proper supervision are weeded out. As a supervisor I have
conducted internal affairs investigations and found the most were simply
someone trying to get back at some Officer because they were arrested,
however, there were also those which were blatantly wrong and the Officer
was speared. The vast majority of people I deal with are professional,
hardworking people who care about their communities and protecting the
rights of the innocent while trying to guarantee your rights as a citizen,
which is often a hair thin line. We try and sometimes fail, but we are
human just like you and simply want to get home to our families, our
projects and live to fly and love just one more day.
Our representatives are the bad guys here and we need change them, as
needed, so they represent the will of the majority of the people, (not the
special interests, "squeaky wheels", those with a boatload of money, or
those who can provide them with a few minutes pleasure in a bathroom stall
someplace) are enforced. We all need to get more heavily involved in the
process, initiate change, recall petitions, etc. Our form of government is
allegedly representative, but how can it be when the majority doesn't even
vote? All we want to do is sit around and complain about how things are,
not actually go out and do something.
Interaction with the Police is seldom a pleasant thing and we get beat up
all the time, but if you feel you have been wronged by the Police to the
point it upsets you, go to the Department, fill out a written complaint and
take the appropriate actions against rogue Officers to help get rid of them,
but please don't paint all of us with the same brush as true Officers are
servants of the public who care about you and your rights....we just happen
to be at the pivot point of the balance scale.
Sorry for the long post and rant, and please DO NOT ARCHIVE. I would
continue this discussion offline if you like but as far as the forum goes
and as Forrest Gump says, "That's all I've got to say about that".
Chuck Stratton
Missouri
90662 (emp) currently remodeling so the wife will let me build
Message 18
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| Subject: | GA-56 Garmin GPS antenna failure |
FYI the GA-56 fried itself after only 150 hours under the cowl of my
RV-6. It was mounted on the firewall about a foot inboard from the oil
service door. It worked fine in that location until the abrupt failure.
Both John Stark and Garmin indicate that "about 150-160 degrees F." is
the maximum temperature for operating this antenna. This is (without
stepping on toes) contrary to several posts on this site.
The good news is that there are many used GA-56's out there due to the
WAAS mods, so replacement is relatively cheap. I plan to install the
new GA-56 on the top skin behind the firewall. I'll sacrifice 1/10th of
a knot for better antenna longevity.
Steve Chambers N99ST O-360 fixed, tip-up, IFR
Message 19
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| Subject: | GPS Antenna Failure |
FYI had to replace a Garmin GA-56 GPS antenna. It had about 150 hours
in the airplane when it failed. It was mounted under the RV6 cowling,
per many posts and had worked fine until it failed.
I spoke with Stark Avionics and a Garmin field representative. Both
said "150F-160F" was about the maximum temp environment for the anenna.
Without stepping on toes, this is contrary to several posts. The GA-56
has an internal electronic amplifier, which probably fried in the heat.
Considering the cylinder head temps on the O-360 and the considerable
heat coming through the oil service door after landing, the failure was
likely due to excessive heat exposure.
The good news is that many GA-56's are coming off any installation where
the WAAS modification is being made. EBAY has decent buys on new and
used GA-56's.
Steve Chambers
RV-6 O-360 fixed, IFR
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
First, Chuck, thank you for your service in a difficult job. It's worth noting
that there are LOT of law enforcement people on Planet RV.
My one question is would it be more prudent to go talk to the old lady (actually,
I don't know if she was old) who made the call first to see what exactly her
suspicion was to determine whether it was reasonable? And then, if it made sense...
continue on.
Also, it's safe to say, I think that the cops aren't in a very good position to
police the skies. Would it make sense to call the nearest FAA facility and find
out who's up there and where they are in order to properly investigate?
As for probable cause and reasonable suspicion, I believe 99% of the cops are honest.
But in my part of town, if you're a black person, you don't hang an air
freshener off your rear view mirror.
Probable cause, as I'm sure you know, can be ascertained by the answers to questions
while one is detained. As indicated earlier, I would not offer anything
while being detained other than what I am required to provide. Above all, however,
I would do so courteously, but I would certainly not voluntarily provide
that which I am under no obligation to provide.
I also wonder how many police officers know that I'm not required to surrender
possession of my pilot's certificate and other papers. I know I'm required to
"present it for inspection." But you know when you're stopped in a car and you
take my license and proof of insurance back to your car to phone it in? Does
that constitute surrendering?
Similarly, when a proper authority asks for my pilot's certificate, what EXACTLY
does it mean "present it for inspection?" Does that mean it can leave my possession?
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132063#132063
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
Chuck,
I have a neighbor who lives right across he street who is a police
detective with the Killeen, Texas Police Department. I have great respect
for him and all other honest hard working police officers including you.
However this RVNet is not the place to express your feelings. It is
designed for the exchange of ideas and information about the building of RV
series aircraft in an effort to assist builders and restorers and materiel
along those lines is the only thing most of us want to see here.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Copperhead" <copperhead@boycomonline.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: I know this is a mistake, but.....
>
> I can't help myself. Like everyone else, I hate to see non RV related
> discussions carry on for a week or more but I feel I must present the
> other side to this conversation.
>
> I have been a member of the lists for a couple of years, albeit a lurker.
> I am also a student pilot, an RV-9A builder and a Police Lieutenant with
> 23 years on the force. The information I have gleaned from those far
> wiser and more experienced than I, from this list, well I could never
> afford to pay for and appreciate. I respect each and every member of the
> forum and each brings his/her own style and expertise to the group.
> Having said that, let me add the small amount of expertise I can offer to
> the group.
>
> We CONSTANTLY get reports of potential crimes which are in progress or
> have just occurred. We have an obligation to investigate each and every
> one of them to the best of our ability. Many are erroneous for a many
> myriad of reasons, but they require we do something or otherwise we are
> accused of doing nothing. If you report suspicious activity, you expect
> us to follow up on the information you supply...right? If not then we are
> called fat, lazy, donut eating bums whom you can't rely on.
>
> During these initial investigations we encounter normal, everyday people
> just making their way through life without a clue anything is going on, we
> don't know that. We have a description of a person, vehicle, etc. and we
> contact them not knowing whether they are just what they pretending to be,
> or loaded with anger and /or purpose just looking for a place to dump it.
> The circumstances of the report we are given (which can vary greatly)
> dictate how we handle the situation.
>
> Most times it is simply a stop, explain the situation, identify everyone
> involved, satisfy ourselves that you are not of the criminal milieu and
> move on. THIS is called a detention or a detainment and does not require
> probable cause, merely reasonable suspicion. You fit the description, the
> timing is right, etc. so we intervene. The length of time must be
> reasonable for the situation involved. On the other hand, if more
> evidence, information, etc. leads that you were involved, it could result
> in one being taken into custody (technically an arrest). This requires
> probable cause which is facts, and circumstances which would lead a
> prudent man to believe that a crime has been committed and the person(s)
> you have detained may have committed the crime. This is vastly different
> from a investigative detention in which no one is being seized, simply
> detained and identified, which the courts have ruled you have to provide.
>
> If we have a report of a robbery (for example) and the suspects left in a
> blue Chevy, you can bet we are going to stop every blue Chevy which we see
> leaving the area, which could vary depending on response time of all
> Officers. In this particular case, I can see a report of a small plane
> acting suspicious around a protected area could result in all aircraft
> landing in a specific timeframe area being detained and identified.
>
> Now was the report justified? Was it a result of someone being paranoid
> or not knowing what the heck they were talking about? Was it some
> jealous, jilted girlfriend who knew her ex was out flying and called it in
> to cause him problems? Was it a couple of "sheetheads" out doing
> surveillance from the air trying to access the possible vulnerability of a
> nuclear power plant? Things are not always as they appear and evil people
> are good at making things appear normal. That is their job and they live
> it 24/7. No one knows until it is checked out and who draws the short
> straw for this...the Police. Imagine the uproar if we did nothing and all
> the while a plan was afoot?
>
> Just like after 9-11, law enforcement didn't do enough to protect us from
> the event so a new plan was devised. Now we are overzealous, jack booted
> thugs who only want to erode the rights of the people so the will of the
> government can prevail and we can all be reduced to mere paupers peering
> out of dark places in fear. Someone used the example of the 85 year old
> grandmother being treated the same as someone else. I know it sounds
> utterly ridiculous to normal people, but we see elderly people constantly
> smuggling copious amounts of illegal substances. One of the largest
> cocaine dealers I ever arrested in this area was 78 years old. As I said,
> people up to no good constantly try to find ways to circumvent the
> procedures currently in place by any means necessary and nearly everyone
> is corruptible if the money is right. It is our responsibility to sniff
> them out while all the time trying to utilize common sense, not let
> someone slip through, and not get killed.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there is a butt load of problems with this society and
> I wholeheartedly agree that the greedy politicians don't have our best
> interests in mind. I also agree that we as a nation have digressed, are
> our losing our rights, our standing as a global power and the one everyone
> looks up to for "doing the right thing". Its the same ole human story
> since the beginning of time and has become all about sex, money and power
> and we let our representatives on every level be consumed by it.
>
> The point to this dribble being, its not necessarily the Police. Sure
> there are hotdogs, untrained, uneducated and overzealous Officers who
> shouldn't be allowed to play with sharp objects, let alone carry a gun,
> but they are a minority and with proper supervision are weeded out. As a
> supervisor I have conducted internal affairs investigations and found the
> most were simply someone trying to get back at some Officer because they
> were arrested, however, there were also those which were blatantly wrong
> and the Officer was speared. The vast majority of people I deal with are
> professional, hardworking people who care about their communities and
> protecting the rights of the innocent while trying to guarantee your
> rights as a citizen, which is often a hair thin line. We try and
> sometimes fail, but we are human just like you and simply want to get home
> to our families, our projects and live to fly and love just one more day.
>
> Our representatives are the bad guys here and we need change them, as
> needed, so they represent the will of the majority of the people, (not the
> special interests, "squeaky wheels", those with a boatload of money, or
> those who can provide them with a few minutes pleasure in a bathroom stall
> someplace) are enforced. We all need to get more heavily involved in the
> process, initiate change, recall petitions, etc. Our form of government
> is allegedly representative, but how can it be when the majority doesn't
> even vote? All we want to do is sit around and complain about how things
> are, not actually go out and do something.
>
> Interaction with the Police is seldom a pleasant thing and we get beat up
> all the time, but if you feel you have been wronged by the Police to the
> point it upsets you, go to the Department, fill out a written complaint
> and take the appropriate actions against rogue Officers to help get rid of
> them, but please don't paint all of us with the same brush as true
> Officers are servants of the public who care about you and your
> rights....we just happen to be at the pivot point of the balance scale.
>
> Sorry for the long post and rant, and please DO NOT ARCHIVE. I would
> continue this discussion offline if you like but as far as the forum goes
> and as Forrest Gump says, "That's all I've got to say about that".
>
> Chuck Stratton
> Missouri
> 90662 (emp) currently remodeling so the wife will let me build
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Antenna Failure |
On 08/31 11:24, Steve Chambers wrote:
> FYI had to replace a Garmin GA-56 GPS antenna. It had about 150 hours in
> the airplane when it failed. It was mounted under the RV6 cowling, per
> many posts and had worked fine until it failed.
> I spoke with Stark Avionics and a Garmin field representative. Both said
> "150F-160F" was about the maximum temp environment for the anenna.
> Without stepping on toes, this is contrary to several posts. The GA-56
> has an internal electronic amplifier, which probably fried in the heat.
> Considering the cylinder head temps on the O-360 and the considerable heat
> coming through the oil service door after landing, the failure was likely
> due to excessive heat exposure.
> The good news is that many GA-56's are coming off any installation where
> the WAAS modification is being made. EBAY has decent buys on new and used
> GA-56's.
> Steve Chambers
> RV-6 O-360 fixed, IFR
Steve, I have two used GA-56 antennas. If you want one send me
your address.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
http://www.evorocket.com - Building
Message 23
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| Subject: | I know this is a mistake, but..... |
I thought a little homework was needed (listed below from Matronics). I
support Chuck and am glad he wrote. Tracy makes a good point, too.
Dale
RV6a 912+ hrs
Do not archive
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
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- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an
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that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be
concise and
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- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: I know this is a mistake, but.....
Chuck,
I have a neighbor who lives right across he street who is a police
detective with the Killeen, Texas Police Department. I have great respect
for him and all other honest hard working police officers including you.
However this RVNet is not the place to express your feelings. It is
designed for the exchange of ideas and information about the building of RV
series aircraft in an effort to assist builders and restorers and materiel
along those lines is the only thing most of us want to see here.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Copperhead" <copperhead@boycomonline.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: I know this is a mistake, but.....
>
> I can't help myself. Like everyone else, I hate to see non RV related
> discussions carry on for a week or more but I feel I must present the
> other side to this conversation.
>
> I have been a member of the lists for a couple of years, albeit a lurker.
> I am also a student pilot, an RV-9A builder and a Police Lieutenant with
> 23 years on the force. The information I have gleaned from those far
> wiser and more experienced than I, from this list, well I could never
> afford to pay for and appreciate. I respect each and every member of the
> forum and each brings his/her own style and expertise to the group.
> Having said that, let me add the small amount of expertise I can offer to
> the group.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
Bob Collins wrote:
>
> Similarly, when a proper authority asks for my pilot's certificate, what EXACTLY
does it mean "present it for inspection?" Does that mean it can leave my possession?
For me, my agency, and the district court under which I operate (the same as the
one you live in), it means that you will present it to me, in order to allow
me to ascertain the legitimacy of the document (i.e. ... pilots license) you
have presented to me. This means that unfortunately, you will have to let me
have a full hands on examination of the document. YES, there are thousands of
counterfeit documents out there, since you live in MN, go down to Lake Street
(in Minneapolis) and ask around, you can buy ANY counterfeit document you want,
it may surprise you that very real looking documents can be had for less than
$200.00! Getting into a tugging war with the local cops may cause alot more
trouble than trying to make any point about the definition of "presenting."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132073#132073
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
Travis wrote:
> Getting into a tugging war with the local cops may cause alot more trouble than
trying to make any point about the definition of "presenting."
I agree, but that's also the "problem." Do I really HAVE a "right" (i.e. my right
not to have to surrender my pilot's certificate) if there is a penalty for
asserting it?
On only a tangential note: A few months ago, I was listening to an FAA guy speak
at at the MN Wing of Van's Air Force (there's the required RV content) and he's
a guy who did ramp checks. He assured us all that he's not "out to get" pilots,
but then he told a story about driving around some hangars and a guy was
pulling his plane out so he stopped and asked the guy, "going flying today?"
And the guy said, "yep."
THEN he identified himself as an FAA inspector and asked to see the guy's medical,
which the guy didn't have.
Of COURSE the guy did it in this order because the only way to get the guy to admit
to a coming violation was to wait to identify himself until after he had
already established his intent to fly. And then the guy wrote him up (I think).
He hadn't committed any offense, but he had admitted he was about to commit
one.
Bottom line? I guess you just have to be very careful about what you volunteer
in the way of information.
Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing AOPA devote as much effort to how to handle "routine"
detaining as it has expended in how to handle the media and how to handle
intercept procedures.
It's getting to the point where the easiest part of flying is.... the flying part.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132077#132077
Message 26
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| Subject: | I know this is a mistake, but..... |
I thought it was a very timely response, considering the conversation over
the last couple of days.
Ignore what you are not interested in. Delete it and move on. Sure,
sometimes we wander off on a tangent and stay there, but think of it as
friends who met because of an interest in RV's talking about other shared
interests.
It will get back to RV's when someone starts talking about RV's.
Use the delete key if you don't want to read it. Please don't try to stop
the conversation. Some of us are learning from it.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of robert stone
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: I know this is a mistake, but.....
Chuck,
I have a neighbor who lives right across he street who is a police
detective with the Killeen, Texas Police Department. I have great respect
for him and all other honest hard working police officers including you.
However this RVNet is not the place to express your feelings. It is
designed for the exchange of ideas and information about the building of RV
series aircraft in an effort to assist builders and restorers and materiel
along those lines is the only thing most of us want to see here.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Copperhead" <copperhead@boycomonline.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: I know this is a mistake, but.....
>
> I can't help myself. Like everyone else, I hate to see non RV related
> discussions carry on for a week or more but I feel I must present the
> other side to this conversation.
>
> I have been a member of the lists for a couple of years, albeit a lurker.
> I am also a student pilot, an RV-9A builder and a Police Lieutenant with
> 23 years on the force. The information I have gleaned from those far
> wiser and more experienced than I, from this list, well I could never
> afford to pay for and appreciate. I respect each and every member of the
> forum and each brings his/her own style and expertise to the group.
> Having said that, let me add the small amount of expertise I can offer to
> the group.
>
> We CONSTANTLY get reports of potential crimes which are in progress or
> have just occurred. We have an obligation to investigate each and every
> one of them to the best of our ability. Many are erroneous for a many
> myriad of reasons, but they require we do something or otherwise we are
> accused of doing nothing. If you report suspicious activity, you expect
> us to follow up on the information you supply...right? If not then we are
> called fat, lazy, donut eating bums whom you can't rely on.
>
> During these initial investigations we encounter normal, everyday people
> just making their way through life without a clue anything is going on, we
> don't know that. We have a description of a person, vehicle, etc. and we
> contact them not knowing whether they are just what they pretending to be,
> or loaded with anger and /or purpose just looking for a place to dump it.
> The circumstances of the report we are given (which can vary greatly)
> dictate how we handle the situation.
>
> Most times it is simply a stop, explain the situation, identify everyone
> involved, satisfy ourselves that you are not of the criminal milieu and
> move on. THIS is called a detention or a detainment and does not require
> probable cause, merely reasonable suspicion. You fit the description, the
> timing is right, etc. so we intervene. The length of time must be
> reasonable for the situation involved. On the other hand, if more
> evidence, information, etc. leads that you were involved, it could result
> in one being taken into custody (technically an arrest). This requires
> probable cause which is facts, and circumstances which would lead a
> prudent man to believe that a crime has been committed and the person(s)
> you have detained may have committed the crime. This is vastly different
> from a investigative detention in which no one is being seized, simply
> detained and identified, which the courts have ruled you have to provide.
>
> If we have a report of a robbery (for example) and the suspects left in a
> blue Chevy, you can bet we are going to stop every blue Chevy which we see
> leaving the area, which could vary depending on response time of all
> Officers. In this particular case, I can see a report of a small plane
> acting suspicious around a protected area could result in all aircraft
> landing in a specific timeframe area being detained and identified.
>
> Now was the report justified? Was it a result of someone being paranoid
> or not knowing what the heck they were talking about? Was it some
> jealous, jilted girlfriend who knew her ex was out flying and called it in
> to cause him problems? Was it a couple of "sheetheads" out doing
> surveillance from the air trying to access the possible vulnerability of a
> nuclear power plant? Things are not always as they appear and evil people
> are good at making things appear normal. That is their job and they live
> it 24/7. No one knows until it is checked out and who draws the short
> straw for this...the Police. Imagine the uproar if we did nothing and all
> the while a plan was afoot?
>
> Just like after 9-11, law enforcement didn't do enough to protect us from
> the event so a new plan was devised. Now we are overzealous, jack booted
> thugs who only want to erode the rights of the people so the will of the
> government can prevail and we can all be reduced to mere paupers peering
> out of dark places in fear. Someone used the example of the 85 year old
> grandmother being treated the same as someone else. I know it sounds
> utterly ridiculous to normal people, but we see elderly people constantly
> smuggling copious amounts of illegal substances. One of the largest
> cocaine dealers I ever arrested in this area was 78 years old. As I said,
> people up to no good constantly try to find ways to circumvent the
> procedures currently in place by any means necessary and nearly everyone
> is corruptible if the money is right. It is our responsibility to sniff
> them out while all the time trying to utilize common sense, not let
> someone slip through, and not get killed.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there is a butt load of problems with this society and
> I wholeheartedly agree that the greedy politicians don't have our best
> interests in mind. I also agree that we as a nation have digressed, are
> our losing our rights, our standing as a global power and the one everyone
> looks up to for "doing the right thing". Its the same ole human story
> since the beginning of time and has become all about sex, money and power
> and we let our representatives on every level be consumed by it.
>
> The point to this dribble being, its not necessarily the Police. Sure
> there are hotdogs, untrained, uneducated and overzealous Officers who
> shouldn't be allowed to play with sharp objects, let alone carry a gun,
> but they are a minority and with proper supervision are weeded out. As a
> supervisor I have conducted internal affairs investigations and found the
> most were simply someone trying to get back at some Officer because they
> were arrested, however, there were also those which were blatantly wrong
> and the Officer was speared. The vast majority of people I deal with are
> professional, hardworking people who care about their communities and
> protecting the rights of the innocent while trying to guarantee your
> rights as a citizen, which is often a hair thin line. We try and
> sometimes fail, but we are human just like you and simply want to get home
> to our families, our projects and live to fly and love just one more day.
>
> Our representatives are the bad guys here and we need change them, as
> needed, so they represent the will of the majority of the people, (not the
> special interests, "squeaky wheels", those with a boatload of money, or
> those who can provide them with a few minutes pleasure in a bathroom stall
> someplace) are enforced. We all need to get more heavily involved in the
> process, initiate change, recall petitions, etc. Our form of government
> is allegedly representative, but how can it be when the majority doesn't
> even vote? All we want to do is sit around and complain about how things
> are, not actually go out and do something.
>
> Interaction with the Police is seldom a pleasant thing and we get beat up
> all the time, but if you feel you have been wronged by the Police to the
> point it upsets you, go to the Department, fill out a written complaint
> and take the appropriate actions against rogue Officers to help get rid of
> them, but please don't paint all of us with the same brush as true
> Officers are servants of the public who care about you and your
> rights....we just happen to be at the pivot point of the balance scale.
>
> Sorry for the long post and rant, and please DO NOT ARCHIVE. I would
> continue this discussion offline if you like but as far as the forum goes
> and as Forrest Gump says, "That's all I've got to say about that".
>
> Chuck Stratton
> Missouri
> 90662 (emp) currently remodeling so the wife will let me build
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | re:GPS Antenna Failure |
Hi Steve,
My GA-56 antenna is mounted under the cowl. Forums such as this do serve a purpose
but knowing how expensive that antenna is, before installing it I contacted
Garmin and was verbally assured there was no problem doing so.... just not
to use metallic paint on a few square inches of cowl above and around the antenna.
Routinely, I almost always contact a given manufacturer about important
technical matters before I pay much heed to any forum's content. Still, with
over 200 hours of service on the GA-56 now, it acquires almost immediately and
works as advertised but of course that is no guarantee it won't shoot craps
tomorrow! I do have a blast tube routed to the Lasar unit bolted right next
to it and perhaps the antenna takes advantage of some spill over cooling air.
BTW, you gave me my very first RV ride in N99ST when you visited Greensfield
(M71) a few years ago. My RV project finally flew several months after your generous
introductory flight. Upon your suggestion at the time, I purchased a Garmin
stack which includes the 430 from John Stark and have been very pleased.
Sorry to hear about your woes with the antenna. Perhaps if others report a
similar failure with the GA-56 mounted under the cowl....and so far yours is the
only one I've heard...we can all benefit.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!" 210 hours
RV-8 FWF
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
Terry Watson wrote:
> Ignore what you are not interested in. Delete it and move on. Sure,
> sometimes we wander off on a tangent and stay there, but think of it as
> friends who met because of an interest in RV's talking about other shared
> interests.
I think it's important to note that a lot of people don't use the e-mail delivery
method of the RV list. They use the Web interface. There, the discussions are
threaded (such as at Doug Reeves' site), so you can look in an instant at what
discussions are there and read the ones you want, and ignore the ones you
don't.
Of course, people *do* get the list by e-mail and this frustration is also the
result of having "two" lists -- the one that's delivered by e-mail, and the threaded
discussion board online.
The same is true for the "do not archive" police. That's a throwback to when there
was only one delivery method for the RV List, and is irrelevant to the Forum
format.
Perhaps a solution would be a checkbox option for the Web forum users that says
"don't send to the e-mail people". Is that possible, Matt?
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132083#132083
Message 29
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| Subject: | Air oil suction gismo |
Im trying to find that gismo that you hook to your air hose that will suck
oil out of one place and put into another.
Example. oil reservoir in an RV-4 down in a hole and I want to suck it dry
and put oil into another container without spilling a drop.
I know there is an attachment you can put on your air hose that will do
this.
Ive googled my brains out. No Joy.
What is it called and where do I find one.
Thanks
Mike
do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: OMG! What is your deal? |
Vince, I'm looking at the sectional for that area and there is a power
plant, Bridgman, just 15 miles southwest of Benton Harbor, I'm not sure that
this is the plant, however, it does not mention anything about nuclear power
plant, it just says power plant. In my opinion it should at least say
Nuclear Power Plant on the Sectional to help advise pilots to stay clear.
Also, with all the airports in that area it could have been any plane flying
over the power plant and not necessarily yours traveling at 200 miles
per/hour at 2500 feet AGL and over 5000' away from the plant. Vince, from
your common's, I believe you did nothing wrong and the police do not have
any idea who flew over the nuclear power plant. Thanks for the pilot
report, it's very interesting.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: OMG! What is your deal?
>
> SNIP "Furthermore, the O.P. said "if he flew a straight line" he didn't
>
> come that close to the power station. Okay, but when is the last
> time any of us flew perfectly along our desired flight path. I
> almost never do. I might be as much as 5 miles to one side or the
> other and don't really care that much. It's VFR, it's a nice day,
> and I know where I am and where I'm going -- that's good enough for
> me. Did the O.P. fly right over the top of that nuclear plant? We
> don't know. From his report, he may not even know.
>
> Where's the line? I don't know. I guess it depends on just how
> closely he came to the power plant and how long they detained him.
> And perhaps whether there had been recent intelligence of planned
> attacks on nuclear power plants. 5 miles away isn't worthy of
> notice. Right over the top, then yeah I think it's reasonable to at
> least see who it was. And that's what they did.
> -Joe " Snip
>
> Well, I avoid personal rebuttals as much as possible, but when I say
> straight line, I mean straight line. The autopilot was flying, the air
> was smooth, and the course was straight. When I said in my original
> post, which was sent to hopefully get folks to write their senators and
> not because I wanted to start a flame war, I stated that we passed the
> plant at 2500' AGL and at least one mile away at nearly 200mph. Hardly
> circling or lingering in the area is it?
>
> And if you don't know where the line is, read the FARs again. Unless
> they change the advisory to an FAR, it's 500'regardless of what any
> idiot on the ground might think. Not saying that 500' over a nuke plant
> is a good idea, but by my understanding it's legal. That is also the
> opinion of the gents at the FSS that I called immediately after the
> incident to confirm that I hadn't overlooked a new TFR or rule change.
>
> My opinion based on the number of other planes that I saw in the area is
> that some other plane probably did get much closer than we were. And we
> got the police visit. Maybe next time it will be you. Maybe next time
> the cops won't be so friendly. Maybe you'll even get tazed or shot.
> Just remember if the tazer or bullet only stays on/in your body for 5-10
> minutes and not several hours then you have no reason to be upset.
>
> So, in conclusion, I hope that many of you reading this will raise hell
> with your senators and congressmen!
>
> Vince
>
>
> --
> 6:13 AM
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
In FAA terms, presenting for inspection (handing them the certificate at the FAA
representative or a law enfrocement representative) has a different meaning
than "surrender" the certificate. The FAR's require that we hand over the certificate
for inspection when asked by an FAA or law enforcement representative.
A "surender" of the certificate means that you voluntarily relinguish the rights
that are accorded to the certificate.
DO not archive
---- Travis <travishamblen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob Collins wrote:
> >
> > Similarly, when a proper authority asks for my pilot's certificate, what EXACTLY
does it mean "present it for inspection?" Does that mean it can leave my
possession?
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Air oil suction gismo |
Hey Mike .... try this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43575
Linn
Michael W Stewart wrote:
> Im trying to find that gismo that you hook to your air hose that will
> suck oil out of one place and put into another.
> Example. oil reservoir in an RV-4 down in a hole and I want to suck it
> dry and put oil into another container without spilling a drop.
> I know there is an attachment you can put on your air hose that will
> do this.
> Ive googled my brains out. No Joy.
> What is it called and where do I find one.
> Thanks
> Mike
> do not archive
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
On 31 Aug 2007, at 14:32, Bob Collins wrote:
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>
> Terry Watson wrote:
>> Ignore what you are not interested in. Delete it and move on. Sure,
>> sometimes we wander off on a tangent and stay there, but think of
>> it as
>> friends who met because of an interest in RV's talking about other
>> shared
>> interests.
>
>
> I think it's important to note that a lot of people don't use the e-
> mail delivery method of the RV list. They use the Web interface.
> There, the discussions are threaded (such as at Doug Reeves' site),
> so you can look in an instant at what discussions are there and
> read the ones you want, and ignore the ones you don't.
>
> Of course, people *do* get the list by e-mail and this frustration
> is also the result of having "two" lists -- the one that's
> delivered by e-mail, and the threaded discussion board online.
>
> The same is true for the "do not archive" police. That's a
> throwback to when there was only one delivery method for the RV
> List, and is irrelevant to the Forum format.
>
> Perhaps a solution would be a checkbox option for the Web forum
> users that says "don't send to the e-mail people". Is that
> possible, Matt?
I get the list by e-mail. The web forum needs a checkbox option that
the sender can check in the rare instance where the message is
directly related to RVs. Only these messages should go out on e-
mail. Any e-mail list recipients who want to see all the other
messages could subscribe to the "Random conversations by RV people
List".
It's weeks like this where I wonder why the heck I still subscribe to
the RV-List. It really seems to no longer be relevant to RVs.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Air oil suction gismo |
Mike,
Almost any auto parts store sells a hand operated pump for draing crankcase oil
thru the oil stick.
Do not archieve
---- Michael W Stewart <mike.stewart@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Im trying to find that gismo that you hook to your air hose that will suck
> oil out of one place and put into another.
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Questions on O-320-D2A Sump Drains and a Slick Mag |
Joe,
Use whichever of the three sump drains that is most convenient for you.
On the wiring for the mag.If you are using the shield to complete the
grounding circuit, it would not be grounded on the switch end. The
shield is providing the second leg of the P lead grounding from the
switch.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe & Jan Connell
To: RV-List
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Questions on O-320-D2A Sump Drains and a Slick Mag
Hi,
My O-320 D2A has 3 sump drain plugs. Should I use any
particular plug to drain the oil? Are the three drain plugs
for the convenience of various aircraft types?
One more question:
I have a P-Mag and a Slick impulse mag on the O-320. I
can see where the P-lead goes on the Slick mag. I'm using a
toggle switch to control the magneto and am using the shield at
the switch end to complete the circuit. Is this the way to wire
it or will grounding both ends of the shield generate noise?
(My Rotax past isn't helpful here!)
Thanks guys,
Joe Connell
RV-9A N95JJ
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
khorton01(at)rogers.com wrote:
> It's weeks like this where I wonder why the heck I still subscribe to
> the RV-List. It really seems to no longer be relevant to RVs.
>
I understand what you're saying and the occasional thread makes a pretty good target,
but the reality is -- and this is more clear if you use the Web interface
-- that there's very little RV discussion taking place on the list. In fact
in the last two weeks, there were only two -- conduit and rusting gear legs --
that generated more than 2 or 3 messages.
One of the interesting things about RV building, I think, is just about every question
that could be asked has already been asked. The outstanding archive is
proof of that.
I ask your question too, but it's usually after I look at the "today's posts" section
of VAF and wonder why so many RVers post stuff there and no longer post
to the RV List. In many cases, the same people "hang out" on both lists, but
the contributions their far, far outweigh here.
I presume that people who might be inclined to post to this thread do so because
-- RV List wise -- there's no other engaging thread taking place to satiate
the desire for RV talk.
I've never quite figured out why that is.
I made note of this in the Hotline a week or so ago (the last Hotline I was to
edit, by the way) and the only response I got was a couple of guys who sent me
emails that said, basically, "oh, come on..." but offered no explanation for
the relative quiet on what used to be the primary source of RV discussion.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132108#132108
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... |
On 31 Aug 2007, at 16:02, Bob Collins wrote:
> <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>
>
> khorton01(at)rogers.com wrote:
>> It's weeks like this where I wonder why the heck I still subscribe to
>> the RV-List. It really seems to no longer be relevant to RVs.
>>
>
>
> I understand what you're saying and the occasional thread makes a
> pretty good target, but the reality is -- and this is more clear if
> you use the Web interface -- that there's very little RV discussion
> taking place on the list. In fact in the last two weeks, there were
> only two -- conduit and rusting gear legs -- that generated more
> than 2 or 3 messages.
>
...
> I made note of this in the Hotline a week or so ago (the last
> Hotline I was to edit, by the way) and the only response I got was
> a couple of guys who sent me emails that said, basically, "oh, come
> on..." but offered no explanation for the relative quiet on what
> used to be the primary source of RV discussion.
I've been a subscriber since 1996. At one time, the list was a buzz
of RV related messages, with very few off topic messages. Then there
were a bunch of flame wars that drove many experienced contributors
from the list. Then web forums became more popular as more and more
people got high speed internet access. People seem to like the
various features that a good web forum offers, so we lost another big
bunch of people.
Now we seem to be at a point where most of the folks who want to
discuss RV related issues choose one of many other places first,
rather than have to wade through the low signal to noise ratio of
this list. Its sad in a way - sort of like watching a good friend
die a slow, painful death from cancer. I made a lot of good friends
because of this list, but most of them have left for other places on
the web.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
do not archive
Message 38
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My RV-6A, their Nuclear Power Plant (Diablo, San Luis Obispo, CA).
Robin
Message 39
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Well,
I suppose I shouldn't tell the story about a nuke that is conveniently
protected by the US Marines, or was in the seventies. They did a relatively
normal shut down of unit one due to one too many hatches being opened at the
same time, semi-compromising containment, and Joe Idiot news copter
therefore decided they had the right to buzz and film indiscriminately. Well
the lunatic camera person shaking their fist at the funny green helicopter
got to see how well its nose cannon works. Interestingly they got to go land
at an MCAS and I never saw anything in the news about it all. Ahh, those
were the days....
I guess I'm at a loss as to why flying at 3000 ft for six miles is such a
problem??? The good guys can be bad guys, but by a large preponderance it's
the bad guys who are more often the bad guys.
I thank every cop I get the chance to and I thank the checker processing my
credit card every time they check my ID. As well, I'm ecstatic when the
airline pilot says "Well folks, the damm thing is broken, we're not going
flying today" before we take off. There's just a certain rightness about it
all.
DO NOT ARCHIVE or you will be detained and questioned and shackled to your
PC left to read mindless listserve prattle about the wrong kind of RVs and
who to not vote for in 37 years.
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