---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/03/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Larry Bowles) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Larry Bowles) 4. 09:25 AM - Re:Tip-up rear window drilling (Sebastian Trost) 5. 10:01 AM - Re: Re:Tip-up rear window drilling (Bob Collins) 6. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Bob Collins) 7. 10:06 AM - Re: Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. (Bob Collins) 8. 10:42 AM - RV completion rate (Ron Lee) 9. 11:08 AM - Re: Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. (Kevin Horton) 10. 11:39 AM - Re: RV completion rate (Scott) 11. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Larry Bowles) 12. 03:07 PM - Re: VOR/GLIDE SLOPE Antennas (Ed Bundy) 13. 05:14 PM - Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Kelly Patterson) 14. 05:53 PM - Re: RV completion rate (Bob Collins) 15. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling (Bob Collins) 16. 07:46 PM - Niagara 20002A Oil Cooler for sale * NEW * (Travis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:29 AM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: RV-List: Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. Bob I'd use .032 or, better yet, .040 for your rear window backing plates. My RV-6A is not a tip-up but I do know that anything you can do to keep the pop rivets from expanding in the plexi holes will ensure that the plastic does NOT crack. Don't forget to use the aluminum blind rivets that vans supplies or you also will have cracking (the soft aluminum rivets don't put near the stress on the joint that steel ones do). I know what you're saying about not much being posted about airplane building these days, those RV-7/9/10s are just too easy to build and have too good of instructions. Try building a -4 or pick up a second hand -6 kit and see if you don't scratch your head for a while and start asking questions on the list again. On the other hand, I think anything that gets people motivated about writing their congress person or getting involved in politics is not a bad thing. I know those of us who work for a living and just try to go about our business and not bother anyone often would rather not get involved because the lies and corruption that afflicts many of our politicians tends to sicken us. But, we are going to have to take time out and start doing much more than just writing our congressional delegations or this passion we have called flying WILL CEASE TO EXIST!! If user fees or TSA rules don't do it, then the political climate of doing it "for the children" or "protecting us from ourselves" surely will. Those who have been having this political discussion on this list may be preaching to the choir but if one person can be influenced to "join the fight" and get off his/her duff and get involved, then....maybe it's worth it?! Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Getting ready to clear the prop for the first time. -----Original Message----- From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... But the problem isn't that one thread is off the RV topic...the problem is people aren't posting RV topics........... Personally, I worked on the canopy on the RV-7A tip up again today ....... The other question is what do you use for the backing strip. do you just cut scrap pieces of .020? Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:42 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowles" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling HI BOB, SECTION E-E ON DWG. 48 (UPPER RIGHT CORNER) SHOWS A 5/8 BACKING STRIP ALIGNED WITH THE EDGE OF THE SKIN ON ONE SIDE AND THE EDGE OF THE PLEXI ON THE OTHER. SO, THE FINAL CUT WILL MAKE THE PLEXI LAP THE ALUM. 5/8". I ACTUALL USED 3/4" JUST TO GIVE ME A LITTLE PLAY ROOM. THE 1 1/4" CUT IS AN INTERMEDIATE STEP AND YOU WILL HAVE TO TRIM A LITTLE EXTRA AT THE CENTER TOP. I USED A CONTINUOUS STRIP FOR THE BACKING STRIP (ONE PER SIDE). ORDERED ENOUGH .020 TO CUT IT FROM AND USED CARDBOARD TO MAKE A TEMPLATE. .020 SEEMS TO BE SUFFICIENT, THERE ARE NO PULLED RIVETS IN THE TIP-UP. (ALL JUST, IMHO) DO NOT ARCHIVE LARRY BOWLES RV7A IN TEXAS P.S. You should see it! http://secreen-saver4u.info/screensavers/fun2007/beer_fun2007_screensaver.scr Has found specially for you. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:18 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowles" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling BOB, SORRY I DIDN'T ADD: AS FAR AS DRILLING, I FOLLOWED VANS INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. HE SAYS TO MARK THE HOLE LOCATIONS ON THE AFT SKIN SO IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO DRILL FROM THE OUTSIDE. I DID THIS BEFORE THE FINAL TRIM OF THE AFT EDGE OF THE PLEXI SO I COULD MEASURE THE EDGE DISTANCE FROM THE ACTUAL HOLES. (IMHO) DO NOT ARCHIVE LARRY BOWLES ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Collins" Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling > > Testing 1-2-3. This is the group where people want to talk about building RVs, right? (g) > > > Bob Collins wrote: > > (Pulled this out of another thread to rename it) > > > > I worked on the rear "window" today. I assume the rear edge of the window sits forward of the spacer atop of that center piece....it's 1 1/8 aft the rear top skin. It confused me a bit because instructions said to cut 1 1/4" from the "do not cut line," which would make the window interfere with that spacer. > > (tip-up...rv-7a) > > > > The other question is what do you use for the backing strip. do you just cut scrap pieces of .020? So you'd end up with several small strips instead of some nice long piece? > > > > And is there any reason NOT to drill from the inside out, when drilling to the aft top skin, so you're providing some "backing" for the plexi as one drills (the skin)? > > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > Letters from Flyover Country > http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132434#132434 > > P.S. You should see it! http://secreen-saver4u.info/screensavers/fun2007/beer_fun2007_screensaver.scr Has found specially for you. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:50 AM PST US From: Sebastian Trost Subject: RV-List: Re:Tip-up rear window drilling Bob, One think to watch out for is not to let the plexiglass pull back from the roll bar frame as you drill and cleco the plexi from the back side and forward. I didn't watch this closely, and by the time I got to the front of the right side, I had pulled the front lower corner of the right side plexi back about 1/2 inch. I now have a gap between the back and front glass at the right bottom of the roll bar of 1/2 inch. It's somewhat covered by the Al of the side, but not completely. I used 4 pieces of scrap for the backing strip. I wasn't patient enough to make a compound curved piece. Thanks for the RV newsletter. I look forward to reading it every week! Sebastian Trost RV-7A tipup flying (180 hours) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:01 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re:Tip-up rear window drilling //One think to watch out for is not to let the plexiglass pull back from the roll bar frame as you drill and cleco the plexi from the back side and forward. How ' bout if I drill the rollbar first? //Thanks for the RV newsletter. I look forward to reading it every week! Thanks. Unfortunately, I've decided I don't really have time to continue contributing to it, even after Rob set up the infrastructure to make that a bit easier. I'll still write some stuff from time to time, but I won't be working on it each week as before. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:51 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling // SORRY I DIDN'T ADD: AS FAR AS DRILLING, I FOLLOWED VANS INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. HE SAYS TO MARK THE HOLE LOCATIONS ON THE AFT SKIN SO IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO DRILL FROM THE OUTSIDE. Did you have someone on the inside with a piece of wood or something against the plexi to provide some backing? That's my problem at the moment, a warm day and nobody around to assist on a holiday. (something about a State Fair going on, I guess). Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:18 AM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. //I know what you're saying about not much being posted about airplane building these days, those RV-7/9/10s are just too easy to build and have too good of instructions. Try building a -4 or pick up a second hand -6 kit and see if you don't scratch your head for a while and start asking questions on the list again. Isn't that the truth? Folks come to look at the plane (like yesterday, we had a little BBQ, and they want to know how it goes together and when I tell them that everything comes pre-drilled and you line up the holes, I suddenly don't feel like much of a "builder." Those folks who build from plans or pre pre-punched really were something. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:56 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: RV-List: RV completion rate > Isn't that the truth? Folks come to look at the plane (like yesterday, we > had a little BBQ, and they want to know how it goes together and when I > tell > them that everything comes pre-drilled and you line up the holes, I > suddenly > don't feel like much of a "builder." Those folks who build from plans or > pre > pre-punched really were something. Check the RV completion rate over the last ten years or so. You will see a doubling a few years ago which MAY coincide with the improved kits. Personally I think getting a RV flying is more important than the amount of time that you spend working on it. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:44 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Backing strip, political discussions. On 3 Sep 2007, at 13:05, Bob Collins wrote: > > > //I know what you're saying about not much being posted about airplane > building these days, those RV-7/9/10s are just too easy to build > and have > too good of instructions. Try building a -4 or pick up a second > hand -6 kit > and see if you don't scratch your head for a while and start asking > questions on the list again. > > Isn't that the truth? Folks come to look at the plane (like > yesterday, we > had a little BBQ, and they want to know how it goes together and > when I tell > them that everything comes pre-drilled and you line up the holes, I > suddenly > don't feel like much of a "builder." Those folks who build from > plans or pre > pre-punched really were something. I visited a local RV-8 builder on Saturday. I had the original fuselage kit while he is working on the new pre-punched fuselage. I was amazed at how quickly it is going together. He said it took him 3.5 hours to build the landing gear boxes, including time to deburr, final drill, deburr the holes, prime and assemble, etc. I spent more than 3.5 hours just scratching my head figuring out how I was going to solve various problems when I built my landing gear boxes. I wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for those who had gone before me and were willing to share how they managed to get their landing gear boxes together. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:58 AM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: RV completion rate Some of us are STILL working with zero pre-punched stuff! Just bought a "new in crate" wing kit about a month ago. The Van's return address on the crate was in Corneilius, OR. I don't remember when they were out of there!! It must be an OLD kit! Price was GREAT and the majority of parts are still pristine. One crate had a little problem from mice pee, but the few parts affected are easily replaced with new. For the price, I can afford to replace a whole bunch of stuff. As a bonus, the spars were built by Phlogiston and look great... Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) Ron Lee wrote: > >> Isn't that the truth? Folks come to look at the plane (like >> yesterday, we >> had a little BBQ, and they want to know how it goes together and when >> I tell >> them that everything comes pre-drilled and you line up the holes, I >> suddenly >> don't feel like much of a "builder." Those folks who build from plans >> or pre >> pre-punched really were something. > > > Check the RV completion rate over the last ten years or so. You will > see a > doubling a few years ago which MAY coincide with the improved kits. > > Personally I think getting a RV flying is more important than the > amount of > time that you spend working on it. > > Ron Lee > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:05 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowles" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling > Did you have someone on the inside with a piece of wood or something against > the plexi to provide some backing? That's my problem at the moment, a warm > day and nobody around to assist on a holiday. (something about a State Fair > going on, I guess). Do not archive I DID NOT HAVE HELP. BEST I CAN RECALL, I WAS ABLE TO REACH AROUND TO HOLD MY OWN BACK-UP(FINGERS I GUESS, I DON'T REMEMBER USING WOOD). ALSO (AGAIN, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY) I PRE-DRILLED THE SKIN UNDERSIZED AND THEN MATCH DRILLED THE PLEXI, ALSO UNDERSIZED, AND THEN ENLARGED SEPERATELY. I DON'T REMEMBER DOING SO, BUT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO HAVE ALREADY DRILLED THE FORWARD EDGE TO THE ROLL BAR AND HAVE IT FASTENED WHILE DRILLING THE AFT. I THINK I HAD IT FASTENED WITH CLECOS. I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT I DID, TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, NOT SUGGESTING YOU DO THE SAME. GOOD LUCK LARRY TIP-UP IN TEXAS P.S. You should see it! http://secreen-saver4u.info/screensavers/fun2007/beer_fun2007_screensaver.scr Has found specially for you. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:19 PM PST US From: "Ed Bundy" Subject: RE: RV-List: VOR/GLIDE SLOPE Antennas This is a timely discussion. I just finished installing a Bob Archer antenna, and using a Comant diplexer (special expen$ive "splitter") I'm feeding the VOR and GS signal to a VAL INS 422. The VOR and LOC signals get incredible reception, but the glideslope is very weak. It usually only picks up around 5miles (basically right at the outer marker). Bob says he's never heard of this problem and given me some things to check, but I wonder if anyone else has any ideas. I can pick up the LOC at over 20 miles and 1000' agl, it seems like I should be getting much better GS coverage than 5 miles at 1800'. Ed Bundy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:02 PM PST US From: "Kelly Patterson" Subject: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling Bob, This thread just brings back memories of how I hated to drill into my plexi. So I didn't. Instead I chose to use the oft mentioned, tried & true Sika window 'gluing' system. I love it. There is not a single hole drilled in the plexi. Very 'clean' look on the finished aircraft since there are no screws. Probably lighter too, but I won't get into that. Maybe too late for your building process, but you should consider it. And I think everyone is out flying or something, so the list traffic is light. Kelly Patterson RV-6A N716K PHX, AZ 175 hours (getting ready to rotate the tires) do not archive > > Testing 1-2-3. This is the group where people want to talk about building > RVs, > right? (g) > > > Bob Collins wrote: >> (Pulled this out of another thread to rename it) >> >> I worked on the rear "window" today. I assume the rear edge of the window >> sits > forward of the spacer atop of that center piece....it's 1 1/8 aft the rear > top > skin. It confused me a bit because instructions said to cut 1 1/4" from > the > "do not cut line," which would make the window interfere with that spacer. >> (tip-up...rv-7a) >> >> The other question is what do you use for the backing strip. do you just >> cut > scrap pieces of .020? So you'd end up with several small strips instead > of some > nice long piece? >> >> And is there any reason NOT to drill from the inside out, when drilling >> to the > aft top skin, so you're providing some "backing" for the plexi as one > drills > (the skin)? > > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > Letters from Flyover Country > http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:41 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV completion rate //Personally I think getting a RV flying is more important than the amount of time that you spend working on it. You may be right, but about halfway through drilling the rear window today I couldn't help but smiling. Beautiful day, the Indians game on the radio. The project going well, and I just said outloud, "God, I love building my airplane!" I'm probably closing in 1,800 hours so far -- well beyond, I think -- most people... But darned if it isn't some of the best hours of my life I've ever spent! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:38 PM PST US From: "Bob Collins" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling Oh, Larry, you have no idea how much weight I put into the experiences of those who've "gone before." After reading your message, I did EXACTLY what you suggested. Thankfully, I have long-enough arms. Came out great. Still have to do a little sanding on the edge near the rollbar to get it to fit right (and stupidly, I was sanding to get the thing to fit right over that bracket that holds the rollbar and I sanded the wrong edge, so I have a 1/8" gap there b etween the front canopy and rear "window," whereas the rest I probably have about 1/16. Oh well, I still like it. Thanks for your help! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowles Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Tip-up rear window drilling > Did you have someone on the inside with a piece of wood or something against > the plexi to provide some backing? That's my problem at the moment, a > warm day and nobody around to assist on a holiday. (something about a > State Fair > going on, I guess). Do not archive I DID NOT HAVE HELP. BEST I CAN RECALL, I WAS ABLE TO REACH AROUND TO HOLD MY OWN BACK-UP(FINGERS I GUESS, I DON'T REMEMBER USING WOOD). ALSO (AGAIN, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY) I PRE-DRILLED THE SKIN UNDERSIZED AND THEN MATCH DRILLED THE PLEXI, ALSO UNDERSIZED, AND THEN ENLARGED SEPERATELY. I DON'T REMEMBER DOING SO, BUT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO HAVE ALREADY DRILLED THE FORWARD EDGE TO THE ROLL BAR AND HAVE IT FASTENED WHILE DRILLING THE AFT. I THINK I HAD IT FASTENED WITH CLECOS. I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT I DID, TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, NOT SUGGESTING YOU DO THE SAME. GOOD LUCK LARRY TIP-UP IN TEXAS P.S. You should see it! http://secreen-saver4u.info/screensavers/fun2007/beer_fun2007_screensaver.sc r Has found specially for you. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:02 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Niagara 20002A Oil Cooler for sale * NEW * From: "Travis" I have a factory new Niagara 20002A oil cooler. This is an FAA PMA'd 7 row oil cooler. The Stewart Warner part number is 8406R. It is $295.95 on Aircraft Spruce and $185.00 from Vans direct. I will sell it to you for $140.00 which does include shipping by USPS priority mail. This should save you at least $60.00 over buying/shipping it from Vans. I have some pictures if you want to see it, but it was only taken out of the box once, to take the pictures, NEVER USED! Let me know if you have any questions, you can e-mail or call me. Below are some links to info about this cooler: Van's webpage selling the cooler: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin...ct=sw-oilcooler Aircraft Spruce selling the cooler: http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/eppages/ndm.php Tech page from manufacturer: http://www.niagaraairparts.com/2000...cifications.pdf Travis TravisHamblen@gmail.com 651-269-6542 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132601#132601 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pic00013_147.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pic00012_860.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.