---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/04/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:29 AM - Re: RV completion rate (Tim Bryan) 2. 09:09 AM - (Carl Bell) 3. 09:12 AM - CH Stick grips (Carl Bell) 4. 10:53 AM - Re: CH Stick grips (David Burnham) 5. 11:06 AM - Re: CH Stick grips (Bill Cary) 6. 11:38 AM - Re: CH Stick grips (Carl Bell) 7. 12:05 PM - Re: conduit (Charlie England) 8. 12:06 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (Bill Cary) 9. 12:34 PM - Re: conduit (Joseph Larson) 10. 01:06 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (Tim Bryan) 11. 01:49 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (David Burnham) 12. 02:08 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (Tim Bryan) 13. 02:32 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (David Burnham) 14. 03:12 PM - Re: (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 15. 03:20 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (Ron Lee) 16. 05:17 PM - Re: CH Stick grips (Richard E. Tasker) 17. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... (Sherman Butler) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:13 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV completion rate I would echo that Bob. I spent a long time building my airplane but so many Sundays out there all day with a football game on TV or the American country Countdown on the radio and just building. Very enjoyable. It is no wonder so many become multiple offenders. Tim Bryan Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 7:48 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV completion rate > > > //Personally I think getting a RV flying is more important than the amount > of time that you spend working on it. > > You may be right, but about halfway through drilling the rear window today > I > couldn't help but smiling. Beautiful day, the Indians game on the radio. > The > project going well, and I just said outloud, "God, I love building my > airplane!" I'm probably closing in 1,800 hours so far -- well beyond, I > think -- most people... But darned if it isn't some of the best hours of > my > life I've ever spent! > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:51 AM PST US From: "Carl Bell" Subject: RV-List: Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their weight and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for switch control also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:00 AM PST US From: "Carl Bell" Subject: RV-List: CH Stick grips Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their weight and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for switch control also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:02 AM PST US From: "David Burnham" Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips Hi Carl, I have them in my 6A. They have worked well so far, I like the feel, and were fairly easy to wire. They have them set up for pilot and passenger sticks, make sure you get the correct one. I have one of each. I have it set up :- trigger - ppt; front - flip flop ( you need to watch this one, have changed channel without realizing it) - coolie hat Elev & Ail trim and Top two - auto pilot engage & disengage. Regards, Dave Burnham On 9/4/07, Carl Bell wrote: > > Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their weight > and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for switch control > also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:13 AM PST US From: "Bill Cary" Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ I'm currently using these grips in my aircraft but only have ~10 hrs TT at this point. I have had no problems or issues so far. Since these are gamer joysticks I assume that the contacts are rated for many-many operations. That is as long as you don't try to run excessive current through them. Good Luck Bill _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RV-List: CH Stick grips Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their weight and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for switch control also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:22 AM PST US From: "Carl Bell" Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to Vans original height? _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cary Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ I'm currently using these grips in my aircraft but only have ~10 hrs TT at this point. I have had no problems or issues so far. Since these are gamer joysticks I assume that the contacts are rated for many-many operations. That is as long as you don't try to run excessive current through them. Good Luck Bill _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: RV-List: CH Stick grips Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their weight and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for switch control also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:15 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: conduit Wheeler North wrote: > > To conduit or not to conduit, that is the question. > > It is a waste of weight, but there are places where it is wise. > snipped > > I found these micro thin plastic sheathes that cover shower curtain rods at > Aero Depot for those few spans that nothing but a mini-monkey can get to. > They are split and can be reduced to fit right into a snap bushing very > easily. > Shower rod covers are far and away the lightest 'conduit' I was able to find, & have the advantage of fitting whatever size hole we are likely to drill in the ribs. But they are still a lot heavier (many ounces vs. a few grams) than the snap bushings. Charlie ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Cary" Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting until I get more flying time in. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to Vans original height? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:07 PM PST US From: Joseph Larson Subject: Re: RV-List: conduit Going on the advice of my tech counselor, I have purchased the very very lightweight flexible conduit that Van's sells. But I'm now wondering what paths I need for all the wires. -Position lights in wingtips -Strobe lights in wingtips -Landing lights near wingtips -Autopilot servo line at the halfway mark -And I don't know if I should expect to put any antennas in wingtips I presume I shouldn't run all of these together. So if not, I don't know how many holes I should be drilling in my ribs for all the above. -Joe On Sep 4, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > Wheeler North wrote: >> To conduit or not to conduit, that is the question. >> It is a waste of weight, but there are places where it is wise. > snipped >> I found these micro thin plastic sheathes that cover shower >> curtain rods at >> Aero Depot for those few spans that nothing but a mini-monkey can >> get to. >> They are split and can be reduced to fit right into a snap bushing >> very >> easily. >> > Shower rod covers are far and away the lightest 'conduit' I was > able to find, & have the advantage of fitting whatever size hole we > are likely to drill in the ribs. But they are still a lot heavier > (many ounces vs. a few grams) than the snap bushings. > > Charlie ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:42 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips My grips are at the standard height but I have thought many times I would like to shorten them. When I flew with Mike Seager a year and a half ago he was pretty insistent that my hand was all the way up on the grip for landing and takeoff. I have kept that advice even today. I fly normally however with my hand much lower as it is more comfortable. All the way up at the standard Van's height however still seems pretty high. I am wondering what advice anyone has for how much it could be shortened without jeopardizing control stability for landing. An inch? Two? Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cary Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting until I get more flying time in. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to Vans original height? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:38 PM PST US From: "David Burnham" Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips Tim, I cut my sticks - don't remember how many inches - I have attached a photograph. I measured to make sure the grip didn't hit the panel and cut it there - I have the extended panel so it is a little lower than the standard one. I generally fly with only thumb and 2 fingers, never a problem with control. Dave On 9/4/07, Tim Bryan wrote: > > My grips are at the standard height but I have thought many times I would > like to shorten them. When I flew with Mike Seager a year and a half ago he > was pretty insistent that my hand was all the way up on the grip for landing > and takeoff. I have kept that advice even today. I fly normally however > with my hand much lower as it is more comfortable. > > > All the way up at the standard Van's height however still seems pretty > high. I am wondering what advice anyone has for how much it could be > shortened without jeopardizing control stability for landing. An inch? Two? > > > Tim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Cary > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:07 PM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips > > > CJ > > > Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height > if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting > until I get more flying time in. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Bell > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips > > > Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to > Vans original height? > > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:58 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Hi Dave, Nice panel! What is the glass clear over on the passenger side? I fly with only my thumb and 2 fingers also except for take off and landing. At that point I move my hand completely up onto the stick as I was taught by Mike. It would seem to me that control would be easy enough obtained even if I cut a couple inches off but wanted to bounce it off of others. Thanks for you input Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Burnham Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips Tim, I cut my sticks - don't remember how many inches - I have attached a photograph. I measured to make sure the grip didn't hit the panel and cut it there - I have the extended panel so it is a little lower than the standard one. I generally fly with only thumb and 2 fingers, never a problem with control. Dave On 9/4/07, Tim Bryan wrote: My grips are at the standard height but I have thought many times I would like to shorten them. When I flew with Mike Seager a year and a half ago he was pretty insistent that my hand was all the way up on the grip for landing and takeoff. I have kept that advice even today. I fly normally however with my hand much lower as it is more comfortable. All the way up at the standard Van's height however still seems pretty high. I am wondering what advice anyone has for how much it could be shortened without jeopardizing control stability for landing. An inch? Two? Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cary Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting until I get more flying time in. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to Vans original height? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:30 PM PST US From: "David Burnham" Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips Hi Tim Advanced Flight Systems - engine monitor - Just amazing piece of engineering. http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/ Regards, Dave On 9/4/07, Tim Bryan wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > Nice panel! What is the glass clear over on the passenger side? > > I fly with only my thumb and 2 fingers also except for take off and > landing. At that point I move my hand completely up onto the stick as I was > taught by Mike. It would seem to me that control would be easy enough > obtained even if I cut a couple inches off but wanted to bounce it off of > others. > Thanks for you input > > Tim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David Burnham > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:46 PM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips > > > Tim, > > > I cut my sticks - don't remember how many inches - I have attached a > photograph. I measured to make sure the grip didn't hit the panel and cut > it there - I have the extended panel so it is a little lower than the > standard one. > > > I generally fly with only thumb and 2 fingers, never a problem with > control. > > > Dave > > > On 9/4/07, *Tim Bryan* wrote: > > My grips are at the standard height but I have thought many times I would > like to shorten them. When I flew with Mike Seager a year and a half ago he > was pretty insistent that my hand was all the way up on the grip for landing > and takeoff. I have kept that advice even today. I fly normally however > with my hand much lower as it is more comfortable. > > > All the way up at the standard Van's height however still seems pretty > high. I am wondering what advice anyone has for how much it could be > shortened without jeopardizing control stability for landing. An inch? Two? > > > Tim > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Cary > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:07 PM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips > > > CJ > > > Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height > if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting > until I get more flying time in. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Bell > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips > > > Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to > Vans original height? > > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:04 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: In a message dated 9/4/2007 11:11:55 AM Central Daylight Time, carlbell@gforcecable.com writes: does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips >>>> I really like mine & have seen no downside after 400 hours: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5134_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5134) I use the hat switch for elevator trim (through relays to MAC servo), trigger for PTT, and used the neat little button under the trigger for intercom on Microair radio before installing separate intercom. This button is a nice feature and is well-placed to stay out of the way to prevent inadvertant activation- one of the things I prefer over military style sticks with buttons sprouting everywhere... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:23 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips I fly with my hand resting on my leg. This places the PTT switch at the top of the handle too high. I don't move my hand higher for take-off or landing. Bottom line is that my stick could be even shorter than it is. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Bryan To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips My grips are at the standard height but I have thought many times I would like to shorten them. When I flew with Mike Seager a year and a half ago he was pretty insistent that my hand was all the way up on the grip for landing and takeoff. I have kept that advice even today. I fly normally however with my hand much lower as it is more comfortable. All the way up at the standard Van's height however still seems pretty high. I am wondering what advice anyone has for how much it could be shortened without jeopardizing control stability for landing. An inch? Two? Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Cary Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:07 PM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips CJ Yes, I shortened them so that the hand would rest at about the same height if using a simple rubber grip. I may shorten another 1" but plan on waiting until I get more flying time in. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Bell Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:37 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: CH Stick grips Thx Bill, I plan to order them, did you shorten your sticks to get down to Vans original height? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:15 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: RV-List: CH Stick grips I don't yet have flying experience with the sticks, although I do have two in my almost completed RV9A. The following email was posted in Nov of 2004 regarding research I did on the switches used in the sticks. Previous email: There has been discussions about the CH Products control sticks (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/aircraft.html) on the newsgroups lately. I have two of them, but there was a question about what the switch ratings were. I contacted Kevin Williamson of CH Products and he was kind enough to supply me with a set of sample switches (from Omron) and the part numbers thereof. I downloaded the complete data sheet from the web, reviewed the specifications and then called the Omron factory representative. There are a few minor errors in the datasheet available on the web, so the rep emailed me the revised (corrected) sheets. I also discussed with him the specifications listed and got clarification, although it turned out that when I received the revised data sheets, the specification is very clear now. The bottom line is that the electrical rating for all three different switches is: 1-50mA, at 5-24V. The explanation for the ratings is: 1. The lower values (1 mA at 5V) are to make sure that the switch sees enough energy when switching to keep the contacts clean. Any lower values would not guarantee that the contacts will always make proper contact over the life of the switch. If for some reason the load being switched is too low, a resistor could be added in parallel with the load to increase the current to at least 1 mA. 2. The higher values (50 mA at 24V) are the maximum values that should be switched that will not damage the switch. Switching any higher loads will risk damaging the contacts - either welding them shut or warping them or causing excessive arc damage - and will certainly shorten the life of the switch. 3. These ratings are for a resistive load, so if they are to be used with a relay or motor the contacts MUST be protected with a diode or other type of snubber network! Of course, the manufacturer always has a margin in the design so if one chooses to switch 55mA at 14V (for instance), the switch will probably still have a reasonable life. However, pushing them to 100 mA or more will definitely shorten the life and may result in a catastrophic failure at some point. These switches are rated for a lot of actuations so their use in an airplane should be no problem. The hat switches are rated for 300,000 operations (minimum), the switches on the top face of the stick are rated for 100,000 operations (minimum) and the trigger (typically used for push-to-talk) is rated for 1,000,000 operations (minimum). To put these numbers in perspective, let's assume you make one flight every day for ten years. For each flight you could use the hat switch to trim the airplane 82 times in each direction, you could actuate the flaps (assuming that is what you use the two gray switches on the top of the stick for) 27 times each up and down and you could push-to-talk 274 times. I am satisfied that the switches used are as robust as you will find and the ratings are adequate for the task. Just don't go overboard on what you connect direct to the switches and your CH Products control stick will have a long and happy life! Dick Tasker Do not archive (since it is already there) Carl Bell wrote: > Does anyone have experience with the CH stick grips, I like their > weight and ambidextrous design, but since I need to have quality for > switch control also, I thought I would ask for experience. Thx cj > > > > > > > > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:15 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: I know this is a mistake, but..... Kevin, Please define web fourm. Examples? BTW I enjoy your web site. Kevin Horton wrote: Then web forums became more popular as more and more people got high speed internet access. People seem to like the various features that a good web forum offers, so we lost another big bunch of people. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 do not archive Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? 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