---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/17/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:07 AM - Re: high temp cable ties (Kyle Boatright) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: high temp cable ties (Kelly McMullen) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: fly-in (Tim Bryan) 4. 06:18 AM - Re: high temp cable ties (Sam Buchanan) 5. 08:27 AM - Re: high temp cable ties (Brian Kraut) 6. 09:59 AM - Re: high temp cable ties (Michael W Stewart) 7. 01:08 PM - Re: high temp cable ties (wskimike) 8. 02:37 PM - Re: high temp cable ties (Tim Bryan) 9. 04:26 PM - Re: high temp cable ties (John W. Cox) 10. 05:15 PM - Gillespie Field (Louis Willig) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:15 AM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties From: "Kelly McMullen" Regardless of the temps, it is not acceptable to use cable ties on an engine mount tube. Oil and dirt get under it and start wearing the tube. You need a pair of Adel clamps. KM A&P/IA > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:49 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: fly-in Hi Greg, I am a member of 1219. I will try to make the next one and look for you. Thanks Tim Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 12:09 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: fly-in > > > Tim, try hitting the Lufkin Fajita fly-in on the 2nd Sat each month. I > usually make it and my gray Navion is easy to spot. Most of the organizers > can point me out. I fly with a contingent of RV's from Hooks, there's > normally some more from Conroe and a few local RV's. Find me and join us. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan > > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:42 PM > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: RV-List: fly-in > > > > > > I thought I would have a chance to get into the thick of it > > when I moved to Texas. Most RVers however seem to live down > > in the southern or central portion. I live in North East > > Texas. I have only met maybe one or two other RV owners up > > here. Truth is you have to be a little more outgoing than I > > to get to know these folks. We have a very diverse and great > > bunch of RV owners, but ya do got to make the effort to get > > to know them. I have yet to do so. > > Tim > > Do Not Archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:49 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Regardless of the temps, it is not acceptable to use cable ties on an > engine mount tube. Oil and dirt get under it and start wearing the tube. > You need a pair of Adel clamps. True. However, the regular ol' nylon zip ties in the engine compartment of my RV-6, some of which are on mount tubes, were not only passed by the DAR, but have stood up just fine for eight years and 825 hours and have caused no damage. Maybe it is because oil and dirt are not allowed in the engine compartment of my plane. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:12 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties Me too. I would stay away from using them to hold your exhaust up though. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties From: Michael W Stewart I had tie wraps of unknown substance cut into my engine mount of my rv- 6 in ~800 hours. It cut through the powder coating and into the steel. I do not know what the magic formula was for this to happen. Too tight? Too much movement? Too loose? Sharp edge tie wraps? I dunno. But Ill never use them again and they are forbiden on the heavies. My heavies mechanic buddy tried to worn me about this when he looked ov er my fwf before my first flight. I blew him off and said "yeah right. Whatever. That plastic aint gonna cut into that steel." I was wrong! It did. And I learned my lesson. Listen to the guy that se es this stuff a lot. Mike "Brian Kraut" To Sent by: owner-rv-list-ser cc ver@matronics.com Subj ect RE: RV-List: high temp cable tie s 09/17/2007 11:25 AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics .com Me too. I would stay away from using them to hold your exhaust up thou gh. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties t> I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under t he > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:16 PM PST US From: "wskimike" Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties You can use tie wraps if you use them properly. You are suppose to use one to go around both the structure and the cable and don't tighten it but then use another tie wrap wraped around the first tie wrap in between the cable and structure to tighten the first tie wrap. If installed properly, it won't cut into anything. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael W Stewart To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties I had tie wraps of unknown substance cut into my engine mount of my rv-6 in ~800 hours. It cut through the powder coating and into the steel. I do not know what the magic formula was for this to happen. Too tight? Too much movement? Too loose? Sharp edge tie wraps? I dunno. But Ill never use them again and they are forbiden on the heavies. My heavies mechanic buddy tried to worn me about this when he looked over my fwf before my first flight. I blew him off and said "yeah right. Whatever. That plastic aint gonna cut into that steel." I was wrong! It did. And I learned my lesson. Listen to the guy that sees this stuff a lot. Mike "Brian Kraut" "Brian Kraut" Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com 09/17/2007 11:25 AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics.com To cc Subject RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties Me too. I would stay away from using them to hold your exhaust up though. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:07 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" To: Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > > > > > =========== tor?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List =========== EB FORUMS - tp://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:19 PM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties Or alternatively you put one around the structure loose to start with and the second around your cable and then through the first tie wrap. Then tighten them. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wskimike Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties You can use tie wraps if you use them properly. You are suppose to use one to go around both the structure and the cable and don't tighten it but then use another tie wrap wraped around the first tie wrap in between the cable and structure to tighten the first tie wrap. If installed properly, it won't cut into anything. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael W Stewart Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:56 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties I had tie wraps of unknown substance cut into my engine mount of my rv-6 in ~800 hours. It cut through the powder coating and into the steel. I do not know what the magic formula was for this to happen. Too tight? Too much movement? Too loose? Sharp edge tie wraps? I dunno. But Ill never use them again and they are forbiden on the heavies. My heavies mechanic buddy tried to worn me about this when he looked over my fwf before my first flight. I blew him off and said "yeah right. Whatever. That plastic aint gonna cut into that steel." I was wrong! It did. And I learned my lesson. Listen to the guy that sees this stuff a lot. Mike Inactive hide details for "Brian Kraut" "Brian Kraut" "Brian Kraut" Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com 09/17/2007 11:25 AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics.com To cc Subject RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties Me too. I would stay away from using them to hold your exhaust up though. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > ==================================== tor?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List =========== EB FORUMS - tp://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:02 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: high temp cable ties From: "John W. Cox" Kyle - Each builder gets to make these choices personally. It could be wrong for builders to assign responsibility or assume the DARs role was to do their final "binding" inspection on your project build. That is one of the reasons the EAA offers "No Charge" progress inspections to members to provide an added additional sets of eyes to the build (Initial, Recurrent, Final) through the EAA Tech Counselor Program. The DAR role (to my understanding) is primarily the review of documentation and submission for the all important FAA documents. For many, they can confirm the DARs walk around was only cursory in scope. I would love to hear of DARS that accept liability for a final inspection. As an A&P working for a regional air carrier, SFAR 88 is real and a definitive FAA effort to assign an explanation and corrective action to TWA Flight #800. That is to say "other than those conspiracy theorists who claim the US Navy brought it down". It remains the most costly, time consuming FAA accident investigation in US Aviation history. Compliance is a bitch. I would propose to builders considering "zip ties" that there are indeed areas where other attachments are recommended (and more valid) on TCDS Aircraft and possibility a great starting point for Owner Build and Maintained Aircraft as well. When ties do give trouble, the prudent builder has thought it out and chosen wisely. Glad your specific DAR did more than many and that you are flying happily after so many hours. I cannot speak for DARs. As a Tech Advisor, I try to point out other alternatives, enlighten builders on potential avenues, encourage broad questions and further investigation, and try to promote safety in the build. Tom's question was "is it acceptable/practical?" Not much is easier than a zip. The builder decides. He is the manufacturer and the standard to maintain. I try to enlighten on the potential consequences. Adel's are most often seen on Air Carrier fleets due to insurance reasons. They come in various flavors (color and composition) due to environmental concerns that are "known". John Cox EAA TC #5242 A&P/IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 4:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: high temp cable ties I used regular zip ties on my airplane and the DAR had no problem with that. After 6 years and 500 hours, they have not given any trouble. Kyle Boatright ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: RV-List: high temp cable ties > > It is acceptable/practical to use high temp. nylon cable ties under the > cowling? Will a DAR accept the use of these to secure wires to the > engine mount tubes? > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, electrical system. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:15 PM PST US From: Louis Willig Subject: RV-List: Gillespie Field Is anyone on the list based at Gillespie? I am thinking of retiring to San Diego and need a place to hangar "Miss Viagra". Please respond off list. - Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF "MISS VIAGRA" 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.