Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:33 AM - Comments (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:48 AM - New Dynon D-10A For Sale (Todd Wenzel, MCSD)
2. 09:58 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/23/07 (johncoughlin)
3. 10:08 AM - Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? (bobperk90658@bellsouth.net)
4. 04:15 PM - Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? (Terry Watson)
5. 04:49 PM - Re: Aileron trailing edge skislope effect (Jim Blake)
6. 05:42 PM - Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
7. 05:44 PM - Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 06:44 PM - Fuel float bending (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 07:12 PM - Re: Fuel float bending (N67BT@aol.com)
10. 08:35 PM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (c.ennis)
11. 08:52 PM - Re: [Suspect] Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Kelly McMullen)
12. 09:09 PM - Re: [Suspect] Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Scott)
Message 0
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Dear Listers,
Below are a few more of the nice comments Listers have been making along with their
Contributions in support of the Lists this year. Please make your Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
Remember, there is _no advertising budget_ to keep these Lists funded. It is
solely through your generosity that they continue.
Please make a Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
------------------------------What Listers Are Saying------------------------------
The list has been invaluable in the building of my Zenith CH701.
George R
Thanks for keeping the lists a non-commercial venue for us
to gather and share knowledge.
Neal G
What a fantastic resource!
Ralph C
It's a pretty cheep troubleshooting tool with and unlimited
resource of personal knowledge.
Bruce G
A full house of Info & Ideas...
Ellery B
I really enjoy the Piet list.
Steven D
The Lists are an indispensable resource for those of us
building OBAM aircraft.
Bret S
..a great service.
Frank D
..all in all it is a great resource if you ask specific
questions.
Richard S
Your list has really helped me in my first build.
Michael W
Always a pleasure to support this great resource...
Richard W
I enjoy the lists very much, they are very beneficial.
Bob L
Great place to chat with other builders and Flyers.
Ellery B
Your lists are a great service to builders and owners!
Richard D
A real good place for someone that is starting to get
interested into flying without investing any money at
first.
Ellery B
The list has been an great help to my building process.
David B
I'm close to finishing my Zenith 601 thanks to you and
the Zenith List.
Jeff D
Message 1
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| Subject: | New Dynon D-10A For Sale |
Brand new Dynon D-10A for sale - never installed, perfect condition.
Includes Internal Li-Ion Backup Battery, EDC-D10A Remote Compass and OAT
Probe. If you bought these from Dynon you would pay $2,495 plus shipping and
wait for your turn in the backlog queue. The first $2,000 takes it,
including free shipping - the D-10A alone sells for $2,200. Why wait and pay
more? Treat yourself to an early Christmas!
do not archive
Todd Wenzel
todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com
414-218-6784
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/23/07 |
Wanted,
One used in good condition KLN 35A Bendix king GPS.
Mine stopped working so only need the unit, no mounting bracket.
If someone has upgraded and has one of these lying around I could use one.
John C Coughlin
johncoughlin@prodigy.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV-List Digest
Server
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: RV-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/23/07
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete RV-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
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2007-11-23&Archive=RV
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
RV-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 11/23/07: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Re: Flap motor problems (Mike Barnard)
2. 10:19 AM - Re: Flap motor problems (Dale Walter)
3. 08:47 PM - Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap
ribs? (Michael D. Cencula)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:33:19 AM PST US
From: "Mike Barnard" <mike@glebe-farm.co.uk>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap motor problems
Hi Dale,
Many thanks for your comments. The motor itself seems fine - do you have
experience of disassembling the actuator gears? Is the aluminum tube
threaded into the cast housing?
Mike
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Walter
Sent: 22 November 2007 02:30
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap motor problems
Sounds like the bearing spacers/washers are inadequate on one end in the
motor. Or on the actuator gear. If the motor does not produce bad noise when
removed and operated with pressure applied alternatively to each end or
direction of motor shaft then the problem could be in the mounting of the
actuator gears or thrust washers/spacers. Amazing how those noises can hide.
Dale
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Barnard
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Flap motor problems
All,
The flap motor on my recently completed RV6A stopped working at ~30hrs.
Motor has a 1999 mfg date. First an intermittent fault, then froze with
flaps up Removed the motor cap to find the brushes were caked with grease;
looking at other posts it seems this isn't a new problem. Cleaned, refitted
and checked operation, all fine. Reinstalled into the aircraft and while
the flaps deploy quietly with approx 0.4A load, the motor assy is making a
loud rasping noise when they retract and the current is approx 1A. Removed
the motor for a second time, fully stripped and removed it from the gearbox.
Perfectly clean and brand new appearance, nothing untoward. Reassembled
motor, it's silent when bench-run out of gearbox, and actuation rod can be
pushed in and out, spinning the drive pinion without a problem. Refitted
the motor to the gearbox and had an assistant put a load on the actuator as
it runs out. Rasping noise is back. Silent in the other direction on load.
Hmm. At $320 plus shipping and taxes it's an expensive 'just change it'.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Mike Barnard
G-RVCE, England
20/11/2007 17:44
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?RV-List
17:44
17:44
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 10:19:51 AM PST US
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap motor problems
Hi, Sorry, I don't know. Never took that one apart. Do you have an email
address for Vans, I would ask them for info on problem, but sometimes you
get help and sometimes you don't.
Good luck,
Dale
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Barnard
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 3:31 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap motor problems
Hi Dale,
Many thanks for your comments. The motor itself seems fine - do you have
experience of disassembling the actuator gears? Is the aluminum tube
threaded into the cast housing?
Mike
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Walter
Sent: 22 November 2007 02:30
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flap motor problems
Sounds like the bearing spacers/washers are inadequate on one end in the
motor. Or on the actuator gear. If the motor does not produce bad noise when
removed and operated with pressure applied alternatively to each end or
direction of motor shaft then the problem could be in the mounting of the
actuator gears or thrust washers/spacers. Amazing how those noises can hide.
Dale
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Barnard
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Flap motor problems
All,
The flap motor on my recently completed RV6A stopped working at ~30hrs.
Motor has a 1999 mfg date. First an intermittent fault, then froze with
flaps up Removed the motor cap to find the brushes were caked with grease;
looking at other posts it seems this isn't a new problem. Cleaned, refitted
and checked operation, all fine. Reinstalled into the aircraft and while
the flaps deploy quietly with approx 0.4A load, the motor assy is making a
loud rasping noise when they retract and the current is approx 1A. Removed
the motor for a second time, fully stripped and removed it from the gearbox.
Perfectly clean and brand new appearance, nothing untoward. Reassembled
motor, it's silent when bench-run out of gearbox, and actuation rod can be
pushed in and out, spinning the drive pinion without a problem. Refitted
the motor to the gearbox and had an assistant put a load on the actuator as
it runs out. Rasping noise is back. Silent in the other direction on load.
Hmm. At $320 plus shipping and taxes it's an expensive 'just change it'.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Mike Barnard
G-RVCE, England
20/11/2007 17:44
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
AVG Free Date: 20/11/2007 17:44
20/11/2007 17:44
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 08:47:30 PM PST US
From: "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics@cencula.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap
ribs?
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
I tried a chisel, but I only had a small one without much mass, so that
didn't work. Since I didn't have a splitting wedge to use, I went into
work and used one of the milling machines in the machine shop to
essentially make a wedge. It worked great as you can see here:
http://www.our7a.com/20071123.html
Thanks again!
Mike
Terry Mortimore wrote:
>
>
> Hi Mike:
>
> I ground and polished the jaws on a set of Vice Grip pliers and made a
> small rivet squeezer. Had to grind the outside of the jaws quite a bit
> as well to fit into the space. This tool came in handy in a number of
> places.
>
>
> Not sure where I picked up on this idea, may have been the list in
> years gone by.
>
>
> Tailwinds, Terry.
>
>
>> Howdy listers!
>>
>> Anyone out there come up with a good way of bucking the aftmost
>> rivets of the inboard flap ribs. There's hardly any room to get a
>> bucking bar in there.
>>
>> See: http://www.our7a.com/images/20071121-05-tn.jpg
>>
>> As a last resort I can always use MK319BS rivets, but I'm hoping to
>> use solid rivets.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike Cencula
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? |
Mark,
Is that a splitting wedge made in the U. S or is it one from China? I would think
that if it rings true it is mane in the USA.
Bob Perkinson
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> One of my handiest "bucking bars" is a splitting wedge- grind one side of the
> business end as flat as reasonably possible and polish to BB standards- works
> great for all them tight places and makes the most satisfying ringing sound
> when in use...
>
> >From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 4
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| Subject: | How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? |
It needs to be a NEW splitting wedge. Take it from someone who has
mushroomed the top of more than one of them, you DON'T want the sharp edges
of a well-beaten wedge top laying against your fragile aluminum skin.
But you all knew that.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
bobperk90658@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap
ribs?
Mark,
Is that a splitting wedge made in the U. S or is it one from China? I would
think that if it rings true it is mane in the USA.
Bob Perkinson
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> One of my handiest "bucking bars" is a splitting wedge- grind one side of
the
> business end as flat as reasonably possible and polish to BB standards-
works
> great for all them tight places and makes the most satisfying ringing
sound
> when in use...
>
> >From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron trailing edge skislope effect |
Anyone have a vacuum attitude gyro with 8deg tilt for sale. If so,
please email jblake43@bellsouth.net
Jim Blake
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How to buck the aftmost rivets of the inboard flap ribs? |
In a message dated 11/24/2007 12:10:25 PM Central Standard Time,
bobperk90658@bellsouth.net writes:
Is that a splitting wedge made in the U. S or is it one from China?
Bought it about 5 years ago at the local mom&pop TruValue store for maybe
$9-10. Sadly, the Lowes down the street ran 'em out of business a year ago.
Call me at the hangar tomorrow and I'll see if it has a makers mark, but any
solid hunk-o-steel would likely get the job done. Regardless, I'd rather use one
for buckin' pesky rivets than whackin' hickory logs anyway, any day!
Mark - do not archive
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas before using
it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even flying yet......
Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a different
specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you use more
water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too. Theoretically, take a
large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called these days), pour in a bunch
of water, let it settle, sump it out like you would if you were trying to get
a few drops of water out of your airplane fuel tanks (of course - more to be
safe), and go fly with the rest as the ethanol has been removed.
I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that they
call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that easy!
I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't find
any - it could (?) be safe to use.
Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone with
a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we need to
do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn they put in
it.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fuel float bending |
I'm getting ready to bend my fuel float attach 'wires'. How do you verify that
they're within 1/8" of the top and bottom?
You certainly cannot see in there with everything closed up.....
The only two things I can come up with are:
1. Putting the mounting plates inside out on the opposite tank and using a straight
edge to see where the floats end up - that assumes that the tanks are symmetrical....don't
like to assume......knowwhatImean?
2. Mounting the plates with a spacer so you can see through the gap to find out
where they end up as you rotate the tanks from right-side-up to up-side-down.
I'll take any ideas here folks.......
Ralph Capen
Finished the anti-rotation SB - bending the float wires - then safetying the B-nuts......
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel float bending |
Ralph,
Make a temporary clear plastic mounting plate so the installed float
position can be seen using a flashlight. One will work for both sides.
Bob Trumpfheller
RV7A 70 hrs.
_http://mesawood.com_ (http://mesawood.com)
In a message dated 11/24/2007 7:45:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
I'm getting ready to bend my fuel float attach 'wires'. How do you verify
that they're within 1/8" of the top and bottom?
You certainly cannot see in there with everything closed up.....
The only two things I can come up with are:
1. Putting the mounting plates inside out on the opposite tank and using a
straight edge to see where the floats end up - that assumes that the tanks are
symmetrical....don't like to assume......knowwhatImean?
2. Mounting the plates with a spacer so you can see through the gap to find
out where they end up as you rotate the tanks from right-side-up to
up-side-down.
I'll take any ideas here folks.......
Ralph Capen
Finished the anti-rotation SB - bending the float wires - then safetying the
B-nuts......
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
The EAA sells an ethanol tester....works exactly as you say. It is
graduated and gives you the percentage of ethanal contained in a given
volumn of fuel. Around here (northern KY area) it runs in the neighborhood
of 10 to 12 percent, that was 2 months ago. If auto fuel were at $3 a gallon
that would be around 30 cents out of every gallon bought which would be
unusable and disposed of. I guess you could dump it in your car if you could
separate it from the water.
It seems to me that avgas is better for your engine, you don't have to
spend any time fussing with it to remove ethanal, you don't have to haul it
to the airport in 5 gallon cans, you don't have to get rid of the unusable
portion of it and you don't have to wonder and worry about what it may be
doing to that expensive prop crank on the front of your airplane.
As an added thought, what kind of container do you use to "settle" out the
ethanal? Something would need to be built which would hold a minimum of 20
gallons or so, or it would take hours to "unrefine" enough to be useful, in
5 gallon batches ( you only get 4 1/2 gallons usable out of every 5 you
buy).
Of course, thats just my opinion. ;-)
Charlie Ennis
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
What is being talked about is referred to as phase separation. With
ethanol it takes at least an equal amount of water to the ethanol, and
very cold temps to get the ethanol water mix to settle out. Try putting
some beer in mogas and see how well it settles out. Beer is usually 5-6%
ethanol, the rest water. It might work.
Ethanol in gasoline is 10% pure anhydrous ethanol.Good luck on
separation, and better luck at getting all that contaminated water out
of your tanks.
Also consider that mogas, even without ethanol is very hard on the PRC
sealant in your tanks. Tends to soften the sealant too much, leading to
leaks. I know of a Mooney owner that flew with mogas on the sly. No
issue with the engine, but his tanks turned to much and he had to put in
bladders to fix it.
c.ennis wrote:
>
> The EAA sells an ethanol tester....works exactly as you say. It is
> graduated and gives you the percentage of ethanal contained in a given
> volumn of fuel. Around here (northern KY area) it runs in the
> neighborhood of 10 to 12 percent, that was 2 months ago. If auto fuel
> were at $3 a gallon that would be around 30 cents out of every gallon
> bought which would be unusable and disposed of. I guess you could dump
> it in your car if you could separate it from the water.
> It seems to me that avgas is better for your engine, you don't have to
> spend any time fussing with it to remove ethanal, you don't have to
> haul it to the airport in 5 gallon cans, you don't have to get rid of
> the unusable portion of it and you don't have to wonder and worry
> about what it may be doing to that expensive prop crank on the front
> of your airplane.
> As an added thought, what kind of container do you use to "settle" out
> the ethanal? Something would need to be built which would hold a
> minimum of 20 gallons or so, or it would take hours to "unrefine"
> enough to be useful, in 5 gallon batches ( you only get 4 1/2 gallons
> usable out of every 5 you buy).
>
> Of course, thats just my opinion. ;-)
> Charlie Ennis
> do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
Maybe I'm missing something (and I'm NOT a chemist) but I think the
original poster was saying that if you mixed water in a tank (NOT the
aircraft fuel tank!!) of gas with ethanol in it, the ethanol would
"attach" itself to the water. We all know that water settles to the
bottom of a tank of gas. If a drain (petcock) was fitted to the mixing
tank, one could drain off the water that now has the ethanol attached to
it, removing the ethanol and leaving the gas only in the mixing tank.
One could probably then distill the ethanol out of the water to reclaim
a portion of it to be used in the tractor or lawn mower if desired.
Feasible? (I've sent the original post to a chemist in our EAA chapter
to see what he thinks)
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> What is being talked about is referred to as phase separation. With
> ethanol it takes at least an equal amount of water to the ethanol, and
> very cold temps to get the ethanol water mix to settle out. Try
> putting some beer in mogas and see how well it settles out. Beer is
> usually 5-6% ethanol, the rest water. It might work.
> Ethanol in gasoline is 10% pure anhydrous ethanol.Good luck on
> separation, and better luck at getting all that contaminated water out
> of your tanks.
> Also consider that mogas, even without ethanol is very hard on the PRC
> sealant in your tanks. Tends to soften the sealant too much, leading
> to leaks. I know of a Mooney owner that flew with mogas on the sly. No
> issue with the engine, but his tanks turned to much and he had to put
> in bladders to fix it.
> c.ennis wrote:
>
>>
>> The EAA sells an ethanol tester....works exactly as you say. It is
>> graduated and gives you the percentage of ethanal contained in a
>> given volumn of fuel. Around here (northern KY area) it runs in the
>> neighborhood of 10 to 12 percent, that was 2 months ago. If auto fuel
>> were at $3 a gallon that would be around 30 cents out of every gallon
>> bought which would be unusable and disposed of. I guess you could
>> dump it in your car if you could separate it from the water.
>> It seems to me that avgas is better for your engine, you don't have
>> to spend any time fussing with it to remove ethanal, you don't have
>> to haul it to the airport in 5 gallon cans, you don't have to get rid
>> of the unusable portion of it and you don't have to wonder and worry
>> about what it may be doing to that expensive prop crank on the front
>> of your airplane.
>> As an added thought, what kind of container do you use to "settle"
>> out the ethanal? Something would need to be built which would hold a
>> minimum of 20 gallons or so, or it would take hours to "unrefine"
>> enough to be useful, in 5 gallon batches ( you only get 4 1/2 gallons
>> usable out of every 5 you buy).
>>
>> Of course, thats just my opinion. ;-)
>> Charlie Ennis
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
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