Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - AW: [Suspect] Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Thilo Kind)
2. 04:02 AM - FAR 91.205 Requirements for Wiskey Compass (Steve Glasgow)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: RV10-List: Landing Light Question (Bob Leffler)
4. 07:08 AM - Re: [Suspect] Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Ron Lee)
5. 08:54 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Ralph Finch)
6. 10:15 AM - Kitlog Pro ?? (Bill Schlatterer)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ?? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 10:33 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Charlie England)
9. 10:36 AM - AW: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Thilo Kind)
10. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ?? (Bob Leffler)
11. 12:53 PM - Re: Kitlog Pro ?? (Matt Dralle)
12. 05:22 PM - Fuel float bending - continued - looking for spare float wires..... (Ralph E. Capen)
13. 05:59 PM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Ed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
The Ethanol does not easily blend with gasoline,; thus, compatibilzers are used
in the fuel as well. They hold the ethanol in the gasoline. I'm pretty sure,
that those additives won't let the Ethanol easily go into the water. The only
way the remove the Ethanol from the gasoline is by distilling colones, but that
would exceed the capablities of the homebuilder...
Thilo Kind
RV 8A builder
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Scott
Gesendet: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:08 AM
An: rv-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: [Suspect] Re: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
Maybe I'm missing something (and I'm NOT a chemist) but I think the
original poster was saying that if you mixed water in a tank (NOT the
aircraft fuel tank!!) of gas with ethanol in it, the ethanol would
"attach" itself to the water. We all know that water settles to the
bottom of a tank of gas. If a drain (petcock) was fitted to the mixing
tank, one could drain off the water that now has the ethanol attached to
it, removing the ethanol and leaving the gas only in the mixing tank.
One could probably then distill the ethanol out of the water to reclaim
a portion of it to be used in the tractor or lawn mower if desired.
Feasible? (I've sent the original post to a chemist in our EAA chapter
to see what he thinks)
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> What is being talked about is referred to as phase separation. With
> ethanol it takes at least an equal amount of water to the ethanol, and
> very cold temps to get the ethanol water mix to settle out. Try
> putting some beer in mogas and see how well it settles out. Beer is
> usually 5-6% ethanol, the rest water. It might work.
> Ethanol in gasoline is 10% pure anhydrous ethanol.Good luck on
> separation, and better luck at getting all that contaminated water out
> of your tanks.
> Also consider that mogas, even without ethanol is very hard on the PRC
> sealant in your tanks. Tends to soften the sealant too much, leading
> to leaks. I know of a Mooney owner that flew with mogas on the sly. No
> issue with the engine, but his tanks turned to much and he had to put
> in bladders to fix it.
> c.ennis wrote:
>
>>
>> The EAA sells an ethanol tester....works exactly as you say. It is
>> graduated and gives you the percentage of ethanal contained in a
>> given volumn of fuel. Around here (northern KY area) it runs in the
>> neighborhood of 10 to 12 percent, that was 2 months ago. If auto fuel
>> were at $3 a gallon that would be around 30 cents out of every gallon
>> bought which would be unusable and disposed of. I guess you could
>> dump it in your car if you could separate it from the water.
>> It seems to me that avgas is better for your engine, you don't have
>> to spend any time fussing with it to remove ethanal, you don't have
>> to haul it to the airport in 5 gallon cans, you don't have to get rid
>> of the unusable portion of it and you don't have to wonder and worry
>> about what it may be doing to that expensive prop crank on the front
>> of your airplane.
>> As an added thought, what kind of container do you use to "settle"
>> out the ethanal? Something would need to be built which would hold a
>> minimum of 20 gallons or so, or it would take hours to "unrefine"
>> enough to be useful, in 5 gallon batches ( you only get 4 1/2 gallons
>> usable out of every 5 you buy).
>>
>> Of course, thats just my opinion. ;-)
>> Charlie Ennis
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | FAR 91.205 Requirements for Wiskey Compass |
Regards Whiskey Compass. FAR for VFR Day only, says a "Magnetic Direction
Indicator" is required.
No where does it say independent, mechanical or non electric.
If you have a Magnetometer or EFIS that provides Magnetic Direction
Information I would say you are OK.
If your EFS only provides TRK you may have a problem.
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: RV10-List: Landing Light Question |
Are there any RV's that are flying with the AeroLEDs installed?
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gipson
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Landing Light Question
Check out the Aerosun LED landing lights. I've installed in my 10, yet to
fly.
www.aeroleds.com
_____
From: rv@thelefflers.com
Subject: RV10-List: Landing Light Question
I'm just getting ready to order my wings.
For those of you that are flying, would you make a different decision on
what lighting you installed or would you do the same thing in your next
aircraft?
I'm debating between the Duckworks HID in the leading edge or a HID in the
wingtip.
Thanks,
Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
Better to never put ethanol in fuel in the first place. It is a major scam
being foced on the American public. Plus it raises food prices that
depend upon corn.
Ron Lee
Message 5
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| Subject: | Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
The flip side of this question is, what exactly is bad about having ethanol
in aviation gasoline? In other words, can we design and build our
experimental airplanes so they use modern auto fuel as-is?
As an owner of an Alon Aircoupe with an autofuel STC--long before ethanol
was added--I've heard of these problems:
* Ethanol is very corrosive to some materials, including seals and some
metals?
* Ethanol readily absorbs water (or vice-versa), so the fuel could then
freeze easier (not in the tanks, but easier carb icing and perhaps in fuel
lines).
* Ethanol's unit heat energy is less than gasoline so you'll get less
performance.
* Any others?
Obviously autos have solved the corrosion problem, can't we do the same with
our experimentals? Greater propensity to freeze (if true, not sure about
this) could be handled with fuel injection and maybe insulated fuel lines
behind the firewall. Lack of performance is probably modest and not a great
concern.
Ralph Finch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
flying yet......
Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you
use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like you
would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your airplane
fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the rest as the
ethanol has been removed.
I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that
they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that
easy!
I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't
find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone
with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we
need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn
they put in it.
Message 6
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Did I see where Kitlog Pro was sold to someone and they have taken over
support? I am running Version 1.7.3 and wondering if there is a more
current (usable) version available?
Thanks
Bill S
7a Ark
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ?? |
Yep, the illustrious maintainer of our very own list serv, Matt Dralle. Do
n't think there is anything new yet though.
Do not archive
From: RV7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schlatterer
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ??
Did I see where Kitlog Pro was sold to someone and they have taken over sup
port? I am running Version 1.7.3 and wondering if there is a more current
(usable) version available?
Thanks
Bill S
7a Ark
Do not archive
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas before
using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even flying yet......
>
> Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
>
> The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a different
specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you use more
water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too. Theoretically, take
a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called these days), pour in a bunch
of water, let it settle, sump it out like you would if you were trying to
get a few drops of water out of your airplane fuel tanks (of course - more to
be safe), and go fly with the rest as the ethanol has been removed.
>
> I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that they
call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that easy!
>
> I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't find
any - it could (?) be safe to use.
>
> Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone with
a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we need to
do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn they put in
it.
>
Isn't the alcohol used as a replacement for other, less eco-friendly
octane enhancers?
Charlie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
Hi Ralph,
the most important: Ethanol has a lower evaporation point than gasoline,
thus, vapor lock becomes more of an issue.
Thilo Kind
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ralph Finch
Gesendet: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:52 PM
An: rv-list@matronics.com; 'lycoming engine list'
Betreff: RE: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
The flip side of this question is, what exactly is bad about having ethanol
in aviation gasoline? In other words, can we design and build our
experimental airplanes so they use modern auto fuel as-is?
As an owner of an Alon Aircoupe with an autofuel STC--long before ethanol
was added--I've heard of these problems:
* Ethanol is very corrosive to some materials, including seals and some
metals?
* Ethanol readily absorbs water (or vice-versa), so the fuel could then
freeze easier (not in the tanks, but easier carb icing and perhaps in fuel
lines).
* Ethanol's unit heat energy is less than gasoline so you'll get less
performance.
* Any others?
Obviously autos have solved the corrosion problem, can't we do the same with
our experimentals? Greater propensity to freeze (if true, not sure about
this) could be handled with fuel injection and maybe insulated fuel lines
behind the firewall. Lack of performance is probably modest and not a great
concern.
Ralph Finch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas?
I heard a story the other day about removing ethanol from your car gas
before using it in your plane.....no I haven't done this - I'm not even
flying yet......
Based on the test to detect ethanol in your car gas.....
The ethanol absorbs the water that is poured in for the test and has a
different specific gravity than the remaining fuel and 'layers' out. If you
use more water than the ethanol can absorb, it 'layers' out too.
Theoretically, take a large quantity of gasohol (or whatever it's called
these days), pour in a bunch of water, let it settle, sump it out like you
would if you were trying to get a few drops of water out of your airplane
fuel tanks (of course - more to be safe), and go fly with the rest as the
ethanol has been removed.
I'm not a petroleum engineer - I deal with trons.....but I would think that
they call it blending for a reason - as in it shouldn't come apart that
easy!
I guess if someone did this and tested the remainder for ethanol and didn't
find any - it could (?) be safe to use.
Someone tell me I've had too much to drink tonite! Or, better yet, someone
with a petroleum engineering background tell us it'll work - then all we
need to do is settle out a bunch of gas and not worry about how much corn
they put in it.
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ?? |
2.0 is the current release.
At least Matt took off the 2.1 teaser off the web site, since it's been well
over a year since that was announced.
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael
Sausen)
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ??
Yep, the illustrious maintainer of our very own list serv, Matt Dralle.
Don't think there is anything new yet though.
Do not archive
From: RV7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schlatterer
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14 PM
Subject: [RV Builders] Kitlog Pro ??
Did I see where Kitlog Pro was sold to someone and they have taken over
support? I am running Version 1.7.3 and wondering if there is a more
current (usable) version available?
Thanks
Bill S
7a Ark
Do
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitlog Pro ?? |
At 10:14 AM 11/25/2007 Sunday, Bill Schlatterer wrote:
>Did I see where Kitlog Pro was sold to someone and they have taken over support?
I am running Version 1.7.3 and wondering if there is a more current (usable)
version available?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bill S
>7a Ark
Yes, last January, Matronics acquired the Kitlog Pro software product and has taken
over all support and distribution of the package.
Yes, there is a major upgrade available from the Version 1.7.3. This is Version 2.0 and it can be downloaded from the Kitlog website. The upgrade is $9.95 and well worth the cost, in my opinion. There are many new features in the 2.0 release, including the ability to upload your project to the www.mykitlog.com web site to display your project status. This is a free service and comes with the purchase of Kitlog 2.0. Here is a link to the MyKitlog web site for reference:
http://www.mykitlog.com
All of the pages found here were uploaded by Kitlog Pro 2.0 owners.
When Kitlog Pro acquired by Matronics last January, a Version 2.1 update (as oppose
to an upgrade) was nearing completion by the third party development team.
The update at that time included a number of minor bug fixes and some significant
enhancements to the Expenses log.
It was decided to postpone the release of that 2.1 release in favor of adding significant
additional functionality. This development has been progressing nicely
and customers will be very pleased with the functional improvements. There
are still a number of new functionalities to be finished before the 2.1 update
will be available. I can't comment specifically when the new 2.1 update will
be available, but we're hoping in the next few months.
In the meantime, Kitlog Version 2.0 is available for download via the Kitlog web
site and and can also be obtained on CD from most Homebuilt suppliers. Upgrades
from Kitlog 1.x to Kitlog 2.0 are available directly from the Kitlog web
site only.
http://www.kitlog.com (look for the "downloads" link)
Once again, to clarify, the current Kitlog Version is 2.0. There will be a forthcoming
update to 2.1 that will be FREE for all existing 2.0 customers. Customers
with Kitlog 1.x are required to purchase an upgrade to 2.x for a nominal
fee of $9.95. For existing 2.0 customers, Kitlog will automatically notify the
user when the Version 2.1 update becomes available.
We have been really enjoying the new Kitlog Pro business and have been learning
a great deal about what builders like and don't like, We are working hard to
incorporate this into future versions, and this has been the primary delay in
the release of the 2.1 update.
If you have any specific questions regarding Kitlog, please direct them to our
support email address:
support@kitlog.com
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics / Kitlog Pro
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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| Subject: | Fuel float bending - continued - looking for spare float wires..... |
Thanks to all that responded.
Here's what I've done:
I took the inspection covers and put them inside-out on the opposite tanks
to check the travel. I used coathanger wire to mock up the float wires per
instructions and measured with a straight edge along the outsite of the
tank - which came out nicely. The ohmmeter thing went fine - my concern was
hitting bottom and top - or having too much space at the bottom and top - I
got full range of motion in the mock-up.
The only response that directly addressed my real issue was the plexiglass
replica of the access plate - wished I had gotten that one sooner as that
would have helped. I should have indicated that I had QB tanks - when it is
closed, it is closed
Meanwhile, I think one of my floats is OK as it does not hit bottom or top
and is within 1/8" based on my inside-out modeling. The other is too long
as I can hear it bounce when I tap upwards on the bottom of the tank.
So for anyone out there that has replaced a fuel sender and didn't use the
float wire - I'll take it.
Alternatively, I can order a float wire - or put a small v bend in it to
shorten it.....
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? |
MTBE was the stuff getting into the groundwater and replaced by ethanol,
but both are intended as oxygenators - supposed to reduce emissions -
and neither do much for the octane rating.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
>>
>>
> Isn't the alcohol used as a replacement for other, less eco-friendly
> octane enhancers?
>
> Charlie
>
>
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