---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/26/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:07 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published Dec 1! (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:26 AM - New EIS-4000P, from Grand Rapids Technology, For Sale (Todd Wenzel, MCSD) 2. 09:46 AM - Re: Removing Ethanol from you car-gas (Bruce Anthony) 3. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: Removing Ethanol from you car-gas (Tracy Crook) 4. 04:41 PM - Wheel Pans Fairings (Bert Murillo) 5. 05:07 PM - New AD from Van's (bert murillo) 6. 08:15 PM - Wheel Pans Fairings (Ralph Hoover) 7. 08:24 PM - Re: Wheel Pans Fairings (Konrad L. Werner) 8. 08:25 PM - Re: Wheel Pans Fairings (Bobby Hester) 9. 08:34 PM - New AD from Van's (Ralph Hoover) 10. 08:36 PM - Re: Wheel Pans Fairings (Dale Ensing) 11. 09:07 PM - Re: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:21 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published Dec 1! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, these Lists seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all? Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:36 AM PST US From: "Todd Wenzel, MCSD" Subject: RV-List: New EIS-4000P, from Grand Rapids Technology, For Sale I have a NEW EIS-4000P with a bunch of add-ons, from Grand Rapids Technology ( http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/ ). They have a very nice "Horizon EFIS" that uses the EIS-4000 for the sensor "brain", of course the EIS-4000 is great as a stand-alone engine monitor which is how I was going to use it. I have a complete EIS-4000P, plus these add-on's: 1) Fuel Pressure 2) OAT 3) Manifold Pressure 4) Altimeter 5) Airspeed 6) Fuel Flow (sensor included) The total for this was $1,869 you can check their pricing here: http://hometown.aol.com/enginfosys/pricing.htm. Completely new still in boxes, all probes are included. The first $1,200 takes it, including free shipping!! Treat yourself and your RV to an early Christmas! do not archive Todd Wenzel todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com 414-218-6784 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:02 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Removing Ethanol from you car-gas From: "Bruce Anthony" Well, here's why it's not a good idea to fiddle with this. First, Ethanol is easily blended in gasoline from one to 99 % and blending ethanol straight from the plant is cut with 5% natural gasoline so it's not drinkable - taxes, you know. It's not complicated - we do it in our tanker trucks at the gasoline terminal - and it doesn't require exotic chemicals or methods. The ethanol/gasoline mixture is very stable unless water is added to the mix. If water shows up, ethanol in the blend will initially absorb the water (which might be a good thing in a fuel tank as it prevents immediate engine misfire or stalling from the water that would immediately form a separate phase in a tank of straight gasoline). As more water is added a separate phase of water, ethanol, and gasoline will form in a concentration that can only be predicted from a trinary phase diagram. This separation does not require low temperatures or lots of water, although both of these characteristics have an impact on the amount and how soon the phase will form. This separated phase will not burn properly in internal combustion engines. Keep water away from ethanol blended gasoline including keeping your tanks either full or completely empty if your plane sits around all winter. The separated ethanol/water/gasoline phase has the federal characteristics of a hazardous waste, the disposal of which is regulated by law and is quite expensive. The cost of disposal alone would render any attempt to separate out the ethanol as not cost effective. My NIOSH pocket guide tells me that at standard conditions, ethanol has a boiling point of 173 degrees F and gasoline's B.P. is 102 degrees F (gasoline is a mixture so the lighter components will boil off first). Ethanol also has a lower vapor pressure than the lighter gasoline components. Consequently, ethanol itself is less likely than gasoline to cause vapor lock issues. Oftentimes, chemical mixtures behave differently than pure components, but I haven't noticed any problems with vapor lock in tuned cars in hot Minnesota summers. Ethanol is more corrosive to aluminum than gasoline, but in a 10 percent ethanol blend this is likely not significant. We've been selling E-85 (65% to 85% ethanol in gasoline) for nearly 10 years now and our original dispensers, which have some aluminum components, still seem to be OK. Time will tell. As a previous poster wrote, ethanol is added to gasoline to provide more oxygen to the combustion process in an engine and thus lower emissions. While E-85 has an octane rating of up to 110, the octane improvement from 10% ethanol in regular gasoline is only about 3 points. Although it might not be best suited for aviation purposes (then again it might be fine), in my opinion a 10% ethanol in gasoline blend has an unjustified bad rap in some quarters that is not justified by the experience in automobiles. Time, experience, and the engine manufacturers will have the final say in airplanes. To those amateurs who would try distilling pure ethanol from your phase separation, have your survivors tell us how that worked out. Bruce Anthony Chemical Engineer RV-9 Builder ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:44 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Removing Ethanol from you car-gas Thanks for "separating the wheat from the chaff" Bruce. Amazing the amount of it (chaff) that comes across the internet. Tracy Crook (burned a bit of the 10% stuff in my Rotary powered RV-4 - no ill effects) On Nov 26, 2007 12:34 PM, Bruce Anthony wrote: > bruce.anthony@holidaycompanies.com> > > Well, here's why it's not a good idea to fiddle with this. First, > Ethanol is easily blended in gasoline from one to 99 % and blending > ethanol straight from the plant is cut with 5% natural gasoline so it's > not drinkable - taxes, you know. It's not complicated - we do it in our > tanker trucks at the gasoline terminal - and it doesn't require exotic > chemicals or methods. The ethanol/gasoline mixture is very stable > unless water is added to the mix. If water shows up, ethanol in the > blend will initially absorb the water (which might be a good thing in a > fuel tank as it prevents immediate engine misfire or stalling from the > water that would immediately form a separate phase in a tank of straight > gasoline). As more water is added a separate phase of water, ethanol, > and gasoline will form in a concentration that can only be predicted > from a trinary phase diagram. This separation does not require low > temperatures or lots of water, although both of these characteristics > have an impact on the amount and how soon the phase will form. This > separated phase will not burn properly in internal combustion engines. > Keep water away from ethanol blended gasoline including keeping your > tanks either full or completely empty if your plane sits around all > winter. > > The separated ethanol/water/gasoline phase has the federal > characteristics of a hazardous waste, the disposal of which is regulated > by law and is quite expensive. The cost of disposal alone would render > any attempt to separate out the ethanol as not cost effective. > > My NIOSH pocket guide tells me that at standard conditions, ethanol has > a boiling point of 173 degrees F and gasoline's B.P. is 102 degrees F > (gasoline is a mixture so the lighter components will boil off first). > Ethanol also has a lower vapor pressure than the lighter gasoline > components. Consequently, ethanol itself is less likely than gasoline > to cause vapor lock issues. Oftentimes, chemical mixtures behave > differently than pure components, but I haven't noticed any problems > with vapor lock in tuned cars in hot Minnesota summers. > > Ethanol is more corrosive to aluminum than gasoline, but in a 10 percent > ethanol blend this is likely not significant. We've been selling E-85 > (65% to 85% ethanol in gasoline) for nearly 10 years now and our > original dispensers, which have some aluminum components, still seem to > be OK. Time will tell. > > As a previous poster wrote, ethanol is added to gasoline to provide more > oxygen to the combustion process in an engine and thus lower emissions. > While E-85 has an octane rating of up to 110, the octane improvement > from 10% ethanol in regular gasoline is only about 3 points. > > Although it might not be best suited for aviation purposes (then again > it might be fine), in my opinion a 10% ethanol in gasoline blend has an > unjustified bad rap in some quarters that is not justified by the > experience in automobiles. Time, experience, and the engine > manufacturers will have the final say in airplanes. > > To those amateurs who would try distilling pure ethanol from your phase > separation, have your survivors tell us how that worked out. > > Bruce Anthony > Chemical Engineer > RV-9 Builder > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:03 PM PST US From: "Bert Murillo" Subject: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings Hi: Can some tell me, where I can buy the Fairings for the, Wheel pans, and the gear legs-fuselage fairings, for the RV6A? Name tel; number etc... I heard there is one builder that is making these for the owners.. and that are better fit, than the ones from Van's.. Thanks for the information Bert rv6a Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:09 PM PST US From: bert murillo Subject: RV-List: New AD from Van's Hi: I got the information that on the rv6"s one must change the Fork on front wheel and some modification on the gear leg. Question, how much is this going to cost? Does Van's give some credit for old fork. or is exchange? Thanks, Bert rv6a do not archive Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:36 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings Bert, Here you go. I have the main gear leg fairings and they look good. www.*fairings*-etc.com Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc. bob@fairings-etc.com PO Box 5488 Goodyear, AZ 85338 623/ 536-0951 (business) 623/ 293-9795 (cell) -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:21 PM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings Try www.fairings-etc.com do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Murillo To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 5:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings Hi: Can some tell me, where I can buy the Fairings for the, Wheel pans, and the gear legs-fuselage fairings, for the RV6A? Name tel; number etc... I heard there is one builder that is making these for the owners.. and that are better fit, than the ones from Van's.. Thanks for the information Bert rv6a Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:12 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings http://www.fairings-etc.com/ ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ Bert Murillo wrote: > > Hi: > > Can some tell me, where I can buy the Fairings for the, Wheel pans, > and the gear legs-fuselage fairings, for the RV6A? > > Name tel; number etc... > > I heard there is one builder that is making these for the owners.. and that > are better fit, than the ones from Van's.. > > Thanks for the information > > > Bert rv6a > > Do not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:11 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RV-List: New AD from Van's Bert, Get the Bulletin (*SB 07-11-09)* from Van's. The fork was about $154 (Check the list). The leg you have may or may not be usable with modification. The SB has all the info you need to determine the parts you need. The mod to my RV7A gear leg was $75 plus shipping. There is a new FAQ *(SB 07-11-09 ** FAQ's)* pdf on Van's website with pricing and info. http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/notices.htm * *** * * -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:55 PM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings Bert, go here http://www.fairings-etc.com/ for all the info on the fairings for your 6A. I used them and have been very happy. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Murillo" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Wheel Pans Fairings > > Hi: > > Can some tell me, where I can buy the Fairings for the, Wheel pans, > and the gear legs-fuselage fairings, for the RV6A? > > Name tel; number etc... > > I heard there is one builder that is making these for the owners.. and > that > are better fit, than the ones from Van's.. > > Thanks for the information > > > Bert rv6a > > Do not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:40 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Ethanol from your car-gas? It would be nice if you checked your facts. MTBE was used as an octane enhancer long before the oxygenate use came about. Both MTBE and ethanol are well over 100 octane. Ed wrote: > > MTBE was the stuff getting into the groundwater and replaced by > ethanol, but both are intended as oxygenators - supposed to reduce > emissions - and neither do much for the octane rating. > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.