Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:02 AM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (linn Walters)
2. 05:53 AM - LSAs (Ralph Finch)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Chuck Jensen)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Bob Collins)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: LSAs (Kyle Boatright)
6. 08:10 AM - Re: LSAs (mike humphrey)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Brian Meyette)
8. 08:37 AM - Re: LSAs (Bob Collins)
9. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Christopher Stone)
10. 09:52 AM - Re: LSAs (Tracy Crook)
11. 10:36 AM - Re: LSAs (Ralph Finch)
12. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Tracy Crook)
13. 11:48 AM - Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising ()
14. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Vanremog@aol.com)
15. 12:54 PM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising ()
16. 02:24 PM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Charlie England)
17. 03:01 PM - Re: LSAs (Tracy Crook)
18. 03:11 PM - Re: LSAs (Scott)
19. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Bob Collins)
20. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Bob Collins)
21. 03:57 PM - Looking for RV tools (dnimigon)
22. 04:17 PM - Vacuum Guage hookup (Tim Bryan)
23. 05:03 PM - Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (William Dean)
24. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Andy Gold)
25. 05:43 PM - Re: Vacuum Guage hookup (Vanremog@aol.com)
26. 05:49 PM - Re: Vacuum Guage hookup (Denis Walsh)
27. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising (Russell Lassetter)
28. 06:28 PM - Re: Vacuum Guage hookup (Dave B)
29. 06:56 PM - Re: Vacuum Guage hookup (Tim Bryan)
30. 08:00 PM - Re: Vacuum Guage hookup (n801bh@netzero.com)
31. 08:34 PM - Re: Looking for RV tools (Mike Divan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Scary. Perspective is everything. In my working career, I never stayed
more than 5 years with one company. Never got fired, but I left because
of 'personnel reductions' (read layoffs) or bailed out for better job or
more pay. I also had to fight to keep myself from thinking of quite a
few countries as being 'technically deficient' ...... My bad.
Linn
N395V wrote:
>
>Food for thought........
>video takes about 3 minutes
>
>http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/shifthappens
>
>do not archive
>
>--------
>Milt
>2003 F1 Rocket
>2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149927#149927
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Speaking of LSAs....Chinese or otherwise...Van's RV-12 got me to thinking.
That doesn't happen often and when it does, I take advantage of it.
I gotta think that the RV-12 could fly faster than the LSA speed limit (120
kts) with maybe just a coarser pitched prop. If so, would it be legit to:
- build or buy an LSA--say Van's--switch the prop, and fly it out of the LSA
class with your PP-ASEL and current medical
- then if you don't want to renew your medical for some reason, simply
switch the prop back again to be below 120 kts
Can the same plane, with a minor alteration, switch between LSA and not?
Ralph Finch
Message 3
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| Subject: | Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
While being able to get a finger reattached for $50 and a hand
reattached for $250 seems a bargain no matter how you cut it (pun
intended), the more interesting question is what are the work conditions
that would precipitate posting of a menu that includes reattaching body
parts?
Simple economic theory (note, because it is a theory does not mean its
not true...it just can't be proven empirically) says that work and
production should be distributed to those areas that have an economic
advantage. For instance, better to raise corn in Iowa than New York.
Yes, you can raise corn in New York, but its not economically
advantageous. 50 years ago, allocation of production was based on
efficiency within the U.S. borders, but as our markets have truly become
worldly, the allocation of production has moved beyond our borders.
The economic efficiency theory is a win-win situation for all...in a
totally free market, as it is within the U.S. since States can not
interfere with interstate commerce. However, as it moves across
national borders, tariffs, taxes and artificial barriers to market
access sharply distorts the free trade. Therein lies the problem.
China is the Distortion King. While we permit nearly unfettered access
to our market place for Chinese products, the Chinese government erects
every barrier possible, and for as long as possible, to our products and
services entering their markets. Yes, after years or even decades, they
will grudgingly relax a few onerous barriers and will take the occasion
to trumpet their "openness". Of course, nothing is further from the
truth. Whether it is intellectual property or beef, China will do
everything within its power to limit imports to protect their treasury
and domestic markets. Only when it wants something, for instance new
Boeing planes, will it crack open the door to its market. Even then,
its long term strategy is always to "borrow" the technology so that 10
years later, it will be selling aircraft into the world market instead
of buying them (incidentally, this is already happening in smaller
regional jet aircraft).
Now, before we jump to blame the Chinese, we need to acknowledge that in
the last several years, our own government, serving the interest of
corporations that want to import inexpensive products (no matter the
lead content), has facilitated this damaging relationship.
My company does a fair amount of business with Korea. A couple years
ago, equipment to be installed in 4 new nuclear plants was put on hold
for about a year as their construction schedule was slowed because of
reduced demand for electricity. The stated cause was "reduced
electrical demand because the Chinese are pulling away tens of thousand
of manufacturing job--all the work was going overseas." I held my
tongue but felt like responding, "ah, now you know how we felt 15 years
ago when our manufacturing job were being usurped by Japanese and Korean
manufacturers."
When China ceases unnatural protection of their domestic market and
quits distorting their currency for competitive advantage, then I will
by Chinese with less reservation. In the mean time, I will buy Chinese
but with little enthusiasm and not to the exclusion of competing
products if the quality and overall value of the two products are
similar.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob J.
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising
On Nov 30, 2007 9:20 PM, Dave Nellis < truflite@yahoo.com> wrote:
Keep on buying foreign products, keep buying your
Toyatas, Hondas, or any rice burner made. Sooner or
later, it will catch up to you and you will lose your
job. You will collect unemployment. You will lose
your house. You will be out on the street wondering
"Where did I go wrong?"
I remember hearing this same sort of rhetoric during the 80's about the
Japanese. In 2007 instead its the Chinese, not the Japanese.
I have several friends who work at the Subaru-Isuzu plant near
Lafayette, IN. Guess what? They're profitable, after a year of
employment hourly employees make as much as their UAW counterparts. BTW
they are hiring. There's a Toyota truck plant in Princeton, IN, same
story. Honda is building a new plant near Greenfield, IN. What do
these companies not have that their US competitors do? 1. unions, 2.
overcompensated and incompetent executive management, and 3. legacy
health care costs.
Do you know that for every GM vehicle made GM pays out over $1500 in
legacy health care costs? Toyota pays a fraction of that.
I have a good friend who is living near Shanghai China right now and
told me many interesting stories the last time he was here in the
states. One particular story that stands out was an his experience of
taking an American friend to a hospital for a separated shoulder.
There's no insurance there so when you're admitted you pony up there on
the spot, or as in this case a friend or family member pays for you. In
the waiting room they had a "menu" on the wall which listed costs for
various procedures. For reattaching a finger, $50. Reattaching a
hand..$250, etc. There were a few people in the waiting room that had
their hands bandaged up from getting fingers caught in presses. The
hospical equipment and facilities were top notch, just as good as they
are in the US. For x-rays, examination, and prescription total cost was
less than $5.00. Hmmm, how does that stack up against the US...? My
wife was given Tylenol in the hospital when our daughter was born two
years ago, insurance was billed $10 just for that...
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
//And did you know that the various American car manufacturers are now
defaulting on these contracts, with the assistance of our American
government, that is allowing them to default, using the 'logic' that forcing
them to pay might bankrupt them, or hurt their competitiveness?
I wonder if I'd have gotten the same help these mega corps are getting if
I'd defaulted on paying my handful of employees when I ran a business.
Everybody who's on a military, city, county, or state pension after 20 years
of work... please step foward. (g)
Do not archive
Message 5
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Bigger engine or a different prop, and the RV-12 probably would fly
faster than the LSA limit. But, it wouldn't be an LSA at that point.
If it is *ever* registered as nonconforming to the LSA rules, it can
never be put back into LSA.
Lots of Ercoupes, Aeroncas, etc. were LSA compliant as originally
delivered. Unfortunately, they were modified with a variety of STC's,
some of which raised their gross weight above the LSA spec's. And now,
those aircraft can't be recertified as LSA's, even if the owners
uninstall the STC's or decrease the aircraft's gross weight limit to LSA
compliant figures.
It isn't perfectly logical, but that's the FAA and "rules by committee"
for you.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Finch
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: LSAs
Speaking of LSAs....Chinese or otherwise...Van's RV-12 got me to
thinking. That doesn't happen often and when it does, I take advantage
of it.
I gotta think that the RV-12 could fly faster than the LSA speed limit
(120 kts) with maybe just a coarser pitched prop. If so, would it be
legit to:
- build or buy an LSA--say Van's--switch the prop, and fly it out of
the LSA class with your PP-ASEL and current medical
- then if you don't want to renew your medical for some reason, simply
switch the prop back again to be below 120 kts
Can the same plane, with a minor alteration, switch between LSA and
not?
Ralph Finch
Message 6
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Doesn't that open a can of worms!!! LOL! What a selling point for
Van's if applicable - multi-mission aircraft. But I'm sure that there
are structural considerations in the design of the RV-12 that prevents
Van's from selling/advertising this approach, ie the plug-in wings, etc.
Interesting concept though.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Finch
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: LSAs
Speaking of LSAs....Chinese or otherwise...Van's RV-12 got me to
thinking. That doesn't happen often and when it does, I take advantage
of it.
I gotta think that the RV-12 could fly faster than the LSA speed limit
(120 kts) with maybe just a coarser pitched prop. If so, would it be
legit to:
- build or buy an LSA--say Van's--switch the prop, and fly it out of
the LSA class with your PP-ASEL and current medical
- then if you don't want to renew your medical for some reason, simply
switch the prop back again to be below 120 kts
Can the same plane, with a minor alteration, switch between LSA and
not?
Ralph Finch
Message 7
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| Subject: | Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Hey, how 'bout them RVs, eh? I hear they are a nice plane. I'm building
one, and I hear a few other people are, too. ;-)
12:05 PM
Message 8
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It's one of those questions that's fun to pose to Van, himself, just to be
entertained by his reaction. (g)
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike humphrey
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LSAs
Doesn't that open a can of worms!!! LOL! What a selling point for Van's if
applicable - multi-mission aircraft. But I'm sure that there are structural
considerations in the design of the RV-12 that prevents Van's from
selling/advertising this approach, ie the plug-in wings, etc. Interesting
concept though.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Finch <mailto:rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: LSAs
Speaking of LSAs....Chinese or otherwise...Van's RV-12 got me to thinking.
That doesn't happen often and when it does, I take advantage of it.
I gotta think that the RV-12 could fly faster than the LSA speed limit (120
kts) with maybe just a coarser pitched prop. If so, would it be legit to:
- build or buy an LSA--say Van's--switch the prop, and fly it out of the LSA
class with your PP-ASEL and current medical
- then if you don't want to renew your medical for some reason, simply
switch the prop back again to be below 120 kts
Can the same plane, with a minor alteration, switch between LSA and not?
Ralph Finch
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Thank you Bob!
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Back to the Cessna Skycatcher... If the Skycatcher works out then I believe Cessna
is not only going to produce their LSA in China, I'll bet they are scouting
production facilities for their line of jets.
Competition will always force business to seek the lowest production cost.
I work in manufacturing in Oregon, USA. We build dental equipment. To date we
are the largest manufacturer of this product. For over thirty years our reputation
as the highest quality and best value as carried us in the market place.
With the global economy we are being forced to compete with companies that
produce in China. To our managements credit instead of throwing in the towel
and moving to China, we have invested in people (engineers) and production technology
to remain competitive.
I have no illusion that this will carry us forever. Hopefully as China's economy
expands and their standard of living goes up, so will their cost of manufacturing.
Remember Japan Inc? In the 1970's all the doom sayers were prophesying
the end of manufacturing in the USA. It was "buy American or die".
As long as there are countries with a lower cost standard of living then ours,
production will always move there to try and gain a competitive advantage.
Markets will adjust. We are still the most innovative county in the world. As
long as we as a country don't try to hide behind the walls of nationalism and
protectionism, we will prevail as a competitive marketplace.
Now I have to get back to building my RV.
Chris Stone
RV-8 80802
Newberg, OR
>
>//flop. We have to lay you off. Sorry Bob".
>
>//What do you do now?
>
>
>Are you kidding me? do youknow what business I'm in? I'm in the mainstream
>news business. This isn't a hypothetical scenario, this is what we live
>with every day. The newsppaer industry is getting shredded. You know why?
>They'll tell yo it's because of CraigsList and Facebook, and the Internet.
>I'll tell you because they didn't adapt. They continued to act as if THEY
>are the pillar of all information and it'll be news to you when they say it
>will be... and you'll take it their way and you'll like it.
>
>and now they're paying the price. Sad? yes. As it should be? Absolutely.
>
>Now, sense you posed the hypothetical, let me tell you exactly what I do.
>Because I'm doing it now.
>
>I've been up here in the upper Midwest working for my current employer for
>15 years. I was their first editor and I did a great job. When they decided
>they wanted to get into online, they asked me to handle the content. And I
>did another great job. I invented new ways to tell stories
>online...Minnesota Fantasy legislature and Select A Candidate.
>
>and a few weeks ago they asked me to start something new (for us), an online
>host/blog that makes the news more personal....that changes the way (once I
>get it perfected) newsrooms relate to the audience. It debuted last night
>http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/
>
>Now, i have to tell you I am VERY concerned about this new role because it's
>full of risk in a business on short margins. I've spent many sleepless
>nights the last few weeks wondering what I'll do if it doens't work out.
>Even considering stopping the RV project to put more emergency funds away.
>
>So what do I do? I work hard and I try to shape this thing and I try to make
>it as popular as I've made the other things I've worked on here.
>
>Do I appreciate having a job? You bet. Do I have a right to keep that job?
>Absolutely not. I have to EARN my way right up until the day I retire.
>
>If I lose my job tomorrow, I'm 53 in a dying industry... I probably won't be
>able to get another job that will pay me as much as I make now. So I'll do
>the best I can, work at Home Depot if I have to, may be shop an article or
>two, cut some expenses, and try to figure out a niche that I can fill in a
>competitive world.
>
>This is the way life is. We can either waste our energy wish it weren't so.
>Or we do what we can to make it better.
>
>By the way, the broad sweeping generalization of "today's kids" make me want
>to throw up.
>
>Y'all need to stop your whining and stop looking at everyone else as the
>source of your problems. Your closets are full of shirts make overseas, your
>garages have foreign cars... your tool chests are full of stuff made in
>China and nobody put any of those things there but you.
>
>Can we get to talking about building freakin' RVs now?
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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I often hear this approach to speeding up airplanes and wonder where it
comes from. Assuming that the engine is equipped with a prop that does
not allow the engine over- rev significantly to begin with (I doubt Vans
would do this), a coarser pitched prop will only slow the engine down making
less power and making the plane go slower, not faster.
If this approach worked, we would all be flying 300 mph RVs.
Tracy Crook
Rotary powered RV-4
On Dec 2, 2007 8:49 AM, Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> Speaking of LSAs....Chinese or otherwise...Van's RV-12 got me to
> thinking. That doesn't happen often and when it does, I take advantage of
> it.
>
> I gotta think that the RV-12 could fly faster than the LSA speed limit
> (120 kts) with maybe just a coarser pitched prop. If so, would it be legit
> to:
>
> - build or buy an LSA--say Van's--switch the prop, and fly it out of the
> LSA class with your PP-ASEL and current medical
> - then if you don't want to renew your medical for some reason, simply
> switch the prop back again to be below 120 kts
>
> Can the same plane, with a minor alteration, switch between LSA and not?
>
> Ralph Finch
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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I don't want to start a flame war, but this statement is not true for many
cases...my Alon Aircoupe, for instance, which definitely gains 6-8 mph with
a cruise prop (52") over a climb prop (48"). I have both and have seen this
several times. If changing pitch didn't help top or cruise speeds, why have
constant speed (variable pitch) props on the higher performance aircraft.
I'm guessing--and it is a guess at this point--that the RV-12, like Van's
other aircraft, is very low drag and that he's putting on a relatively flat
pitch prop to keep the speed down. If true this will translate into a
better climb rate. And if true, a simple prop change could allow speeds
above the LSA limit. Voila, a dual-mission aircraft for cheap.
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: LSAs
I often hear this approach to speeding up airplanes and wonder where it
comes from. Assuming that the engine is equipped with a prop that does
not allow the engine over- rev significantly to begin with (I doubt Vans
would do this), a coarser pitched prop will only slow the engine down making
less power and making the plane go slower, not faster.
If this approach worked, we would all be flying 300 mph RVs.
Tracy Crook
Rotary powered RV-4
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Great post Bob.
And to make it RV related I will note that my RV got built, modified, and my
business started (RV related) all because of the shifting economy which
caused a lay-off from my last 'real job' . And what a hell of a fun ride
(and education) it has been.
In 100 words or less:
You have nothing but yourself, your ideals, your family and your friends.
Do the best you can with them.
Your country is nothing but a coincidence of where you were born or find
yourself in. It may be a lucky one or not so lucky. You may feel great
reverence for it but it is as likely to crush you like a bug in the gears of
an uncaring machine as it is to come to your rescue. If it crushed you,
don't waste your time blaming 'your country'. If it came to your rescue,
aim your gratitude a little higher.
Tracy Crook
RV-4 1700 hours of Hmmmm........
On Dec 1, 2007 4:38 PM, Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> //flop. We have to lay you off. Sorry Bob".
>
> //What do you do now?
>
>
> Are you kidding me? do youknow what business I'm in? I'm in the mainstream
> news business. This isn't a hypothetical scenario, this is what we live
> with every day. The newsppaer industry is getting shredded. You know why?
> They'll tell yo it's because of CraigsList and Facebook, and the Internet.
> I'll tell you because they didn't adapt. They continued to act as if THEY
> are the pillar of all information and it'll be news to you when they say
> it
> will be... and you'll take it their way and you'll like it.
>
> and now they're paying the price. Sad? yes. As it should be? Absolutely.
>
> Now, sense you posed the hypothetical, let me tell you exactly what I do.
> Because I'm doing it now.
>
> I've been up here in the upper Midwest working for my current employer for
> 15 years. I was their first editor and I did a great job. When they
> decided
> they wanted to get into online, they asked me to handle the content. And I
> did another great job. I invented new ways to tell stories
> online...Minnesota Fantasy legislature and Select A Candidate.
>
> and a few weeks ago they asked me to start something new (for us), an
> online
> host/blog that makes the news more personal....that changes the way (once
> I
> get it perfected) newsrooms relate to the audience. It debuted last night
> http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/
>
> Now, i have to tell you I am VERY concerned about this new role because
> it's
> full of risk in a business on short margins. I've spent many sleepless
> nights the last few weeks wondering what I'll do if it doens't work out.
> Even considering stopping the RV project to put more emergency funds away.
>
> So what do I do? I work hard and I try to shape this thing and I try to
> make
> it as popular as I've made the other things I've worked on here.
>
> Do I appreciate having a job? You bet. Do I have a right to keep that job?
> Absolutely not. I have to EARN my way right up until the day I retire.
>
> If I lose my job tomorrow, I'm 53 in a dying industry... I probably won't
> be
> able to get another job that will pay me as much as I make now. So I'll do
> the best I can, work at Home Depot if I have to, may be shop an article or
> two, cut some expenses, and try to figure out a niche that I can fill in a
> competitive world.
>
> This is the way life is. We can either waste our energy wish it weren't
> so.
> Or we do what we can to make it better.
>
> By the way, the broad sweeping generalization of "today's kids" make me
> want
> to throw up.
>
> Y'all need to stop your whining and stop looking at everyone else as the
> source of your problems. Your closets are full of shirts make overseas,
> your
> garages have foreign cars... your tool chests are full of stuff made in
> China and nobody put any of those things there but you.
>
> Can we get to talking about building freakin' RVs now?
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Does this kinda sound like "Social Security" thinking from the same era ?. KABONG
HRII
"And did you know that they are in this position because they bought into their
very on self-designed pyramid scheme by not funding accounts while the workers
were employed in order to cover these expenses, so that they must now pay these
expenses out of current sales?"
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
In a message dated 12/2/2007 10:40:28 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tracy@rotaryaviation.com writes:
You have nothing but yourself, your ideals, your family and your friends.
Do the best you can with them.
Your country is nothing but a coincidence of where you were born or find
yourself in. It may be a lucky one or not so lucky. You may feel great
reverence for it but it is as likely to crush you like a bug in the gears of an
uncaring machine as it is to come to your rescue. If it crushed you, don't waste
your time blaming 'your country'. If it came to your rescue, aim your
gratitude a little higher.
====================================
Nicely articulated, and I would add that the most striking thing about the
universe is its indifference.
Do not archive.
-GV
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
>From: "Bob Collins"
><bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
>Subject:
>Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising
>> From: gmcjetpilot
>>"THAT IS WHY I HATE LSA's"
>If you're not flying LSAs, what do you care
>what engine is used to power them?
I care because I care about the US economy &
keeping Jobs in America. Call me a fool or
nationalistic but the LSA weight is so low it
negated the use of standard O200's and O235's.
That is stupid. The Rotax is not better, safer or
easier to maintain. The US FED LAWS should
not exclude US products. What are you a LSA
dealer? How many LSA's from the USA is China
going to buy? ZERO. Wake up. America is a BIG
country with frankly heavy people; the LSA
"specs" are for EUROPE not America. I'm sick
of changing laws to favor foreign markets while
penalizing America's. 100 or 200 lbs more would
have made little Lycs and Continentals viable
for LSA's while giving two real people (not 120lb folks)
a chance to fly a LSA's legally, with more than a
cup of fuel. How much do you weigh? DO the math.
You need a lawnmower eng to meet max wt. honestly.
So LSA's are underpowered and will be flown over
gross routinely with two adults. Forget bags. Yea
isn't that great! NO. The LSA FAR's where to favor
this class made for the Euro airplane/engine industry.
Would an extra 100 kgs made a LSA harder to
fly or more dangerous? NO. I guarantee LSA's
will not be flown legally in the USA w/ 2 adults UP
because most adult males weigh 160-190 lbs.
People are not only getting fatter but taller and
larger. I'll have to stop lifting weights and lose
20 lbs of muscle to fly a LSA. DO THE MATH.
It's a ridiculous category that DOES not fit the
AMERICAN MARKET. The REGS where written
to exclude Cessna 140's, Cherokees 140's & Piper
Tripacers & other existing US planes (& RV's) that
could be LSA's with a higher gross, BUT THAT
WOULD HAVE KILLED THE MARKET FOR THE
EURO Planes. It was not done for safety / engineering,
just politics and business but Euro business, not US.
At least TCM is making a super light O200 for the
LSA market, which I think Cessna will use. They
probably will ship work that out of the country as well.
>This debate reminds me of the old debates when
>shopping malls sprung up on the outskirts of
>towns and then the downtowns declined. Lots
>of people kvetched about the decline of
>downtowns, and all of them were in a position
>to do something about it when it mattered: shop
>downtown.
WHAT? What kind of 'straw-man' argument is
that. STICK TO THE POINT. The fact is when I
call for TECH support, I get a heavy Indian
accent and his name is "BOB" (really a lie, they
intentionally make up a western names, when their
real name is Goop-ta.). "BOB" sucks and knows
less about the issue than I do. Therefore I don't
buy their products any more. YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH THAT? They really suck.
Than I called tech support and it get an
American in America. WOW! What a pleasant
experience. I'm sick of people HATING
America or thinking other nations do better work.
I worked w/ Italian, Japanese, Australian and no
one works harder than AMERICANS, so bite me.
The foreign worker is not better, they are not more
competent, just low paid. CHINA, lead in toys,
heard about it? YOU approve I'm sure. Fact is its
about corporate GREED. It's not competition.
>If Lycoming announces tomorrow that their
>engines are going to be built in Germany or
>France, are you going to park YOUR airplane?
Again YOU'RE making BS arguments that are
illogical and obfuscating the POINT. Cessna
could easily make the plane here and DO it cost
effectively. It's not like the design or quality will
be better. It's about making an extra nickel so the
CEO can get another $10 million bonus. IT'S
JUST GREED because the bean counter figured
out they could REALLY make a killing by going
to China. That's short term vision, the market is
the US, but no one will be able to buy them;
no one will have a job. I have masters in
Engineering and 4 Jet type ratings and 5
instructor ratings. I get great money and could
make more consulting and have. I DO think
protecting US JOB's and FAIR TRADE are
important. Right now its NOT FAIR. America is
getting screwed. We buy all their crap and they
buy NOTHING from us! GET A CLUE. The
Japanese at least started factories in the US. As
far as Boeing, China buys LOTS of jets, so I
don't have a problem with them sharing work
with China a big Boeing customer. However Boeing
keeps all the engineering and technology in
America, which is smart. How many Cessna
LSA's is China going to BUY? ZERO.
PS The Euro & German Mark are so high against
the USD, it makes their products and services too
expensive to produce there or buy here. Look at
Airbus. They give their stuff away to get into our
markets. Airbus planes suck, they're just cheap.
How many A320 nose wheels have fallen off ?
American products are better. I'm not going to
apologize to you for my opinion. If their companies
are making something better, fine, but often its NOT
better, just cheaper. Airbus customer support sucks.
Buy Boeing.
> I didn't think so.
WOW you told me off, didn't you.
>The response to competition isn't to stifle it. It's
>to be the beneficiary of it, by being better. My
>guess is you folks aren't worried that the stuff
>coming from China is cheap junk. You're
>worried that it won't be.
Stop attributing words and opinions to me that I
NEVER SAID or THOUGHT OF. Your debate
skills are either based on ignorance or
obfuscation. AGAIN LEAD IN TOYS. Do you
not read a news papers or even watch TV news?
>Everyone points to Detroit as what happens
>because of foreign competition. Nonsense.
>Detroit's automakers spent the first half of the
>last generation building stuff people didn't want
>and the last half trying to change the laws so it
>didn't matter.
THERE YOU GO AGAIN. The Japanese had a
better product THEY DESIGNED AND MADE.
I dive two Auras and a Porsche. I could get a
Ford for a 1/4 the price but pay the premium for
the product, that's fine. US companies & workers
MUST compete, NO ONE SAID DIFFERENT.
However I'm for some intelligent protectionism.
We have given the store AWAY for Corporate
GREED. If you deny that you are dishonest and
incapable of having an intelligent discourse.
THAT IS A FACT. The problem is we GIVE the
technology away, the jobs away and allow them
to violate laws and fair play. WHY? Greed, greed,
greed and only a few are getting rich. Americans
should just boycott companies and products made
abroad. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE AFRAID OF.
Who do you work for Mr. Bob Collins? I'm going to
guess you make money off of foreign trade or
are in management? Of course you're against workers
I'm NOT going to laugh when they fire you for a
foreign manger who works for 50% of your salary
and speaks 4 languages. Look at programmer jobs,
shipped overseas. Foreign programmers code top
secret US government service programs. SMART?
I think not.
>And they still haven't learned their lesson. I get
>to dictate what I'll buy based on whatever
>factors *I* want to consider. If you want my
>business, satisfy me. If you can't, don't try to
>limit my choices.
YES consumers and workers NEED to send a
message when the CEO makes 50,000 times what
the lowest paid makes, something stinks. When
they mess up and still get a $50,000,000.00
bonus, something is WRONG. Again you'll not
admit this immoral corruption, for the lack of a
better word GREED. Greed is NOT good.
>The American Way is to be better. So stop
>complaining. Be better.
What a BIG comment, America GET BETTER,
stop complaining. Hey I'm RICH. I worked hard to
get advanced degrees and pay for training to make
a living flying. However from a selfish stand
point you are darn right, I want passengers with
good jobs so they can afford to fly on my airline.
The CHINA workers are not buying airline tickets.
STOP hiding behind lies, straw man arguments
and self righteous indignation. What do you do
for a living? Yes SOME times trade protection is
needed. Right now CHINA is exploiting America
and the Captains of Corporations are gladly
exploiting them for ONLY THERE Benefit. That
is bull. China is in violation and Americans lose.
I consulted to Pratt & Whitney, its farming out
as much work abroad as it can. They're having all
kinds of problems with vendors & who can't make
parts for the promised price. What does P&W do,
bail them out, while reducing their US workforce
further & health care coverage for engineers and all
employees (except executives of course). NICE!
A NATION NOT WILLING OR ABLE TO
PROTECT ITS BOARDERS, MARKETS AND
SECURITY INTEREST IS DOOMED. WAKE UP.
Trade is GREAT, FAIR TRADE, not just mass
exporting of Jobs. I have worked abroad and I can
tell you America is the greatest country on Planet
Earth. We have the best workers and America is
worth protecting. Boycott CESSNA. You work for
Cessna don't you Bob? Teach corporations a lesson.
BUY AMERICA MADE PRODUCTS
I'm writing my Reps and Cessna, Sorry Mr. Bob
Collins. I don't buy your arguments, because its just
propaganda and rhetoric that corporations repeat,
devoid of facts. If its good for America its good for
the American people, but the people are getting screwed.
That's a fact. I'm NOT sorry about worrying about
American workers more than ones in China. America
is too nice, generous & trusting. Look at past & recent
history of US corporate leaders & politicians. DO YOU
TRUST THEM?
Sincerely, Proud to be American and protect her for the People by the People,
not other governments, individual politicians, parties or corporations who claim
they are doing it for the people. Wake up folks. We don't buy their CRAP than
they will get the message. Write Cessna, write your Reps. Cessna CAN make
the plane here easily and should in MY OPINION.
do not archive
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Not in any shape, form or fashion.
It was to be part of the employees' deferred income package, just like a
typical sports figure's deferred income package or the pension most of
us *earn* while spending our productive years helping our employer make
a profit.
If you contract with the military to serve and possibly fight for your
country for 20 years, and as part of your compensation they agree to
send you a retirement check & take care of your medical needs each month
when you retire, is that 'Social Security'? When they refuse you
treatment in a VA hospital, as is currently happening to a lot of
veterans right now, is that OK with you?
If you fix my plumbing and I decide not to pay you because I didn't plan
for life's little inconveniences, is that OK with you?
You might think that those auto workers were over paid, but willing
purchasers (GM & other mfgrs) and willing sellers (the workers) agreed
to a price in a free market. Now, after several decades of service, the
mfgrs want out of paying the contract price. Guess who's going to pay.
You and I are, because our American government is using our (future) tax
money by borrowing from China and Saudi Arabia to bail out these
programs while the mfgrs walk away.
Charlie
(I have no dog in that hunt, except for my share of the tax burden, but
my state just *paid* Nissan to build a plant here, and it will be
shuttered up & deserted before we recover the concessions we made to get
them here. Can someone please explain how it's free market capitalism
when governments take people's land, give it to multinational
corporations, then give them decades-long preferential tax treatment?)
jhstarn@verizon.net wrote:
>
> Does this kinda sound like "Social Security" thinking from the same
> era ?. KABONG HRII
>
> "And did you know that they are in this position because they bought
> into their very on self-designed pyramid scheme by not funding
> accounts while the workers were employed in order to cover these
> expenses, so that they must now pay these expenses out of current
> sales?"
>
Message 17
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I Love a good technical discussion and I never perceive disagreement as
flame and hope others feel the same.
My contention was based on the statement "Assuming that the engine is
equipped with a prop that does not allow the engine to over-
rev significantly to begin with".
If the speed of an airplane is limited by intentionally installing a lower
pitch prop, it will almost invariably overspeed the engine in level flight
at full throttle. Did your Aircoupe do this? This is sometimes done (to
improve climb performance) but it requires the pilot to back off the
throttle in level flight to keep the engine below redline. I don't know the
details of the LSA regs but if they allow you meet the top speed requirement
by simply backing off the throttle, that would be a loophole big enough fly
a 747 through. I doubt even a government agency could be that daft.
I should probably have added one other condition, that being "all else being
equal". All else in this case would include prop efficiency. If you unbolt
a lousy or unsuitable prop and install a very good one (I have owned both
kind :>) the increase in performance could be due to that increase in
efficiency and not related to to the pitch. BTW, 48" prop? Wow, I'm not
surprised that the 52" outperformed it in almost every way. Maybe I'm
thinking of a different Aircoupe. (one with C85 engine?) A 48" prop is way
too short for the one I'm familiar with.
To stretch my credibility even further, all else being equal, a lower pitch
prop will often fly faster than the so-called cruise prop (if you don't
mind over-reving the engine). Engines will make more HP at higher rpm and
it takes HP to go faster. The tach reading on the Formula planes at Reno
would give most pilots a coronary. If they installed a higher pitch prop to
bring revs down, I guarantee you they would go slower.
More sacred cow slaughter: Constant Speed props don't make planes go
faster. They just eliminate the compromise between climb and cruise
props. They also allow you to run the engine in it's best efficiency spot
for most flight conditions. If takeoff & climb performance were not a
factor, a fixed pitch prop (designed for max speed) would go faster than a
CS prop.
Tracy Crook (ducking bovine projectiles)
On Dec 2, 2007 1:35 PM, Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> I don't want to start a flame war, but this statement is not true for
> many cases...my Alon Aircoupe, for instance, which definitely gains 6-8 mph
> with a cruise prop (52") over a climb prop (48"). I have both and have seen
> this several times. If changing pitch didn't help top or cruise speeds, why
> have constant speed (variable pitch) props on the higher performance
> aircraft.
>
> I'm guessing--and it is a guess at this point--that the RV-12, like Van's
> other aircraft, is very low drag and that he's putting on a relatively flat
> pitch prop to keep the speed down. If true this will translate into a
> better climb rate. And if true, a simple prop change could allow speeds
> above the LSA limit. Voila, a dual-mission aircraft for cheap.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Tracy Crook
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:51 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: LSAs
>
> I often hear this approach to speeding up airplanes and wonder where it
> comes from. Assuming that the engine is equipped with a prop that does
> not allow the engine over- rev significantly to begin with (I doubt Vans
> would do this), a coarser pitched prop will only slow the engine down making
> less power and making the plane go slower, not faster.
>
> If this approach worked, we would all be flying 300 mph RVs.
>
> Tracy Crook
> Rotary powered RV-4
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 18
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I believe he was referring to 48" of pitch, not prop diameter ;)
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Tracy Crook wrote:
>
>
> BTW, 48" prop? Wow, I'm not surprised that the 52" outperformed it in
> almost every way. Maybe I'm thinking of a different Aircoupe. (one
> with C85 engine?) A 48" prop is way too short for the one I'm
> familiar with.
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
//easier to maintain. The US FED LAWS should
not exclude US products.
They don't. If the LSA market is there, U.S. companies have the
opportunity to build engines to accomodate it. It's their choice. We'll
see.
Hopefully, now that I think of it, U.S. companies are working hard to find
the next generation of aircraft engine.
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
// important. Right now its NOT FAIR. America is
getting screwed. We buy all their crap and they
buy NOTHING from us! GET A CLUE.
One of the problems of these sorts of discussions is it eventually
degenerates to this sort of emotion that tends to lead to hyperbole.
Entertaining, I have to admit, but not entirely enlightening. China is #4 in
U.S. exports behind Canada, Mexico, and Japan. Just last week, China
announced it will eliminate subsidies and tax rebates that have boosted its
exports, a recognition that in matters of trade, it has to play by the
rules.
Van's has been making QBs overseas for years. They are, as near as I can
tell, a good product. I presume they were made there partly for economic
reasons and I know the RV QB owners appreciate it. I know this because every
January there's a thread here about the annual Van's price increases. As a
result of those QBs, I see businesses, like Tony Partain's, springing up to
deliver them. THAT's the kind ingenuity that I expect to thrive in a global
economy. And good for him!
These are all choices and, for the most part, we are all better off when we
have freedoms and choice.
America is still a place in which anyone who works hard enough can succeed.
One can't wave the flag and at the same time make an argument that it's not.
My dad was part of a generation that went off, won a war, came home , shut
the hell up about it and went to work. The whining today is fueled by a
pessimism in what we can achieve. It disgraces the greatest generation.
If you disagree with that, that's entirely up to you. If you want to call me
a jerk and clueless, that's OK with me too. It's all part of the country's
cloth. And part of the entertainment. (g)
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Looking for RV tools |
Looking to buy tools to build my RV-9. Already have rivet gun. Looking mostly for
c-frame, hand squeezer with acc. , dimplers etc.
--------
Dave Nimigon
Alberta
RV-9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150099#150099
Message 22
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| Subject: | Vacuum Guage hookup |
I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled V and
P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export. I
understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would allow me
to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction gauge
need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
advantage of the filtered air? It has smaller ports on it so would have to
find a hose that would fit between the larger ports on the gauges and the
smaller port on the suction gauge.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Tim
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Here. 23 years and 100% disabled from US Army!
----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 9:40:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising
//And did you know that the various American car manufacturers are now
defaulting on these contracts, with the assistance of our American
government, that is allowing them to default, using the 'logic' that forcing
them to pay might bankrupt them, or hurt their competitiveness?
I wonder if I'd have gotten the same help these mega corps are getting if
I'd defaulted on paying my handful of employees when I ran a business.
Everybody who's on a military, city, county, or state pension after 20 years
of work... please step foward. (g)
Do not archive
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
I've never heard it said better. Thank you Tracy.
You have nothing but yourself, your ideals, your family and your
friends. Do the best you can with them.
Your country is nothing but a coincidence of where you were born or
find yourself in. It may be a lucky one or not so lucky. You may feel
great reverence for it but it is as likely to crush you like a bug in
the gears of an uncaring machine as it is to come to your rescue. If it
crushed you, don't waste your time blaming 'your country'. If it came
to your rescue, aim your gratitude a little higher.
The issue today is that so many of us believe that because our accident
of birth, we are privy to some sort of entitlement. We are not! Read
the Declaration of Independence. All we are entitled to is the
"pursuit" of happiness". Nothing guarantees your success.
Now go read Tom Freidman's book The World is Flat. But don't make the
common mistake by quarelling with the author's take of world history.
The book is not about the world. It is about you. Friedman says that
to succeed today you need not only compete with the guy down the block,
but equally with the guy across the ocean. You need a better education.
You need to work harder. You need to be more innovative. You need to
be more adaptable. While you are sitting on the couch watching the
game, some guy in India is earning his second degree. That's why jobs
are going overseas.
This country is still great because anyone here who wants to work hard
enough and smart enough has available to him the tools and opportunity
to succeed in anything.
I consider myself a good example. 14 years ago when a newspaper I
worked for closed I found myself unemployed. Instead of spending the
next few months whining how life was unfair, my wife and I immediately
got to work. I was building my RV-6 and was frustrated about finding
RVator articles I remembered reading. So we turned the problem into an
opportunity and received permission from Van to create and sell a
compilation of these articles. It sold so well that with the next
edition we added Bob Nuckoll's book, Sam James's videos, and a few other
things. Now we stock over 500 items, operate 11 retail catalogs, have
pioneered e-Book distribution in our industry, wholesale all over the
world (including China and India), and provide steady work and good pay
for 5 families. I do not consider myself wealthy in any sense, but I
make enough to (as the president says) "put food on my family", gas in
my plane (an RV - not a Gulfstream), and have good health insurance.
And, I never ever give a moment's worry about losing my job.
So stop complaining about China. China represents over 1 billion people
starving for the American dream. Your job, should you choose to accept
it, is to go out and sell it to them.
There are no problems. There are only opportunities.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
Aircraft Technical Book Company
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Guage hookup |
In a message dated 12/2/2007 4:18:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
n616tb@btsapps.com writes:
I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled V and
P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export. I
understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would allow me
to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction gauge
need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
advantage of the filtered air?
==========================================
Actually, that would be the intuitive take on things, but it would be
exactly wrong. The P stands for Pressure (in this case the negative pressure)
that
is seen at the intake of the vacuum pump (but before the regulator). The V
stands for Vent (in this case Static) or ambient outside pressure (or
aircraft ambient). Look for a Rapco schematic that I think is available on the
web
or in the ACS catalog and it explains the whole setup in detail.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 870hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Guage hookup |
V is usually for vent and P is for the pressure or "suction". refer
to Aircraft spruce which used to have an excellent schematic for how
to do a suction system.
In my case I left v alone and hooked the p to one of the suction
instruments. the whole shmear is in series with the air coming
through the big filter first, then to the two instruments, then to the
regulator, then to the pump.
On Dec 2, 2007, at 5:14 , Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled
> V and
> P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export. I
> understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would
> allow me
> to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction
> gauge
> need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
> advantage of the filtered air? It has smaller ports on it so would
> have to
> find a hose that would fit between the larger ports on the gauges
> and the
> smaller port on the suction gauge.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Thanks
> Tim
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising |
Well said Andy Gold and Tracy...very thought provoking.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Gold
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Chinese LSA - Starting a Flame Uprising
I've never heard it said better. Thank you Tracy.
You have nothing but yourself, your ideals, your family and your
friends. Do the best you can with them.
Your country is nothing but a coincidence of where you were born or find
yourself in. It may be a lucky one or not so lucky. You may feel great
reverence for it but it is as likely to crush you like a bug in the gears of
an uncaring machine as it is to come to your rescue. If it crushed you,
don't waste your time blaming 'your country'. If it came to your rescue,
aim your gratitude a little higher.
The issue today is that so many of us believe that because our accident of
birth, we are privy to some sort of entitlement. We are not! Read the
Declaration of Independence. All we are entitled to is the "pursuit" of
happiness". Nothing guarantees your success.
Now go read Tom Freidman's book The World is Flat. But don't make the
common mistake by quarelling with the author's take of world history. The
book is not about the world. It is about you. Friedman says that to
succeed today you need not only compete with the guy down the block, but
equally with the guy across the ocean. You need a better education. You
need to work harder. You need to be more innovative. You need to be more
adaptable. While you are sitting on the couch watching the game, some guy
in India is earning his second degree. That's why jobs are going overseas.
This country is still great because anyone here who wants to work hard
enough and smart enough has available to him the tools and opportunity to
succeed in anything.
I consider myself a good example. 14 years ago when a newspaper I worked
for closed I found myself unemployed. Instead of spending the next few
months whining how life was unfair, my wife and I immediately got to work.
I was building my RV-6 and was frustrated about finding RVator articles I
remembered reading. So we turned the problem into an opportunity and
received permission from Van to create and sell a compilation of these
articles. It sold so well that with the next edition we added Bob Nuckoll's
book, Sam James's videos, and a few other things. Now we stock over 500
items, operate 11 retail catalogs, have pioneered e-Book distribution in our
industry, wholesale all over the world (including China and India), and
provide steady work and good pay for 5 families. I do not consider myself
wealthy in any sense, but I make enough to (as the president says) "put food
on my family", gas in my plane (an RV - not a Gulfstream), and have good
health insurance. And, I never ever give a moment's worry about losing my
job.
So stop complaining about China. China represents over 1 billion people
starving for the American dream. Your job, should you choose to accept it,
is to go out and sell it to them.
There are no problems. There are only opportunities.
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
Aircraft Technical Book Company
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Guage hookup |
Tim,
The gyro should have a small port which goes to the gauge. The "V" is
the "vent" and the "P" is pressure (positive or negative) so the "P"
connects to the gyro. Since there is no airflow through the gauge, there
no need to connect the "V" to anything or worry about filtered air.
Dave
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled V and
> P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export. I
> understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would allow me
> to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction gauge
> need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
> advantage of the filtered air? It has smaller ports on it so would have to
> find a hose that would fit between the larger ports on the gauges and the
> smaller port on the suction gauge.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Thanks
> Tim
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Vacuum Guage hookup |
Thanks everyone for the responses. I surely would have got it backwards.
The question then is if the pressure (P) were to be negative then wouldn't
there be air flowing through the gauge? If I don't put a filter on the vent
side you say it would be OK?
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave B
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:26 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacuum Guage hookup
>
>
> Tim,
> The gyro should have a small port which goes to the gauge. The "V" is
> the "vent" and the "P" is pressure (positive or negative) so the "P"
> connects to the gyro. Since there is no airflow through the gauge, there
> no need to connect the "V" to anything or worry about filtered air.
>
> Dave
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled V
> and
> > P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export. I
> > understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would allow
> me
> > to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction gauge
> > need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
> > advantage of the filtered air? It has smaller ports on it so would have
> to
> > find a hose that would fit between the larger ports on the gauges and
> the
> > smaller port on the suction gauge.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> > Thanks
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Vacuum Guage hookup |
IIRC, The gauge has only one port on it so the air eally isn't passing t
hrough it, all it does is sense vacuum because it is a dead end circuit.
.
Ben do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Tim Bryan" <n616tb@btsapps.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the responses. I surely would have got it backwards
.
The question then is if the pressure (P) were to be negative then wouldn
't
there be air flowing through the gauge? If I don't put a filter on the
vent
side you say it would be OK?
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave B
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:26 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacuum Guage hookup
>
>
> Tim,
> The gyro should have a small port which goes to the gauge. The "V" is
> the "vent" and the "P" is pressure (positive or negative) so the "P"
> connects to the gyro. Since there is no airflow through the gauge, the
re
> no need to connect the "V" to anything or worry about filtered air.
>
> Dave
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a small vacuum gauge that has two smaller ports on it labeled
V
> and
> > P. I assume the V is for the vacuum and the P would be the export.
I
> > understood there was a port on some of the other gauges that would a
llow
> me
> > to just run a hose from it to the vacuum gauge. Does this suction g
auge
> > need to be plumbed in series with the other gauges in order to take
> > advantage of the filtered air? It has smaller ports on it so would
have
> to
> > find a hose that would fit between the larger ports on the gauges an
d
> the
> > smaller port on the suction gauge.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> > Thanks
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
========================
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for RV tools |
RV tools on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBTOX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180185424704&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI
Mike Divan
N64GH - RV6,flying :)
SLOW 7 Builder :(
EAA - 577486
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!
----- Original Message ----
From: dnimigon <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 3:54:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for RV tools
Looking to buy tools to build my RV-9. Already have rivet gun. Looking
mostly for c-frame, hand squeezer with acc. , dimplers etc.
--------
Dave Nimigon
Alberta
RV-9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150099#150099
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