---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/13/07: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Marty Helller) 2. 06:33 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Michael W Stewart) 3. 06:33 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Sam Buchanan) 4. 07:09 AM - Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Tim Bryan) 5. 08:33 AM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 6. 08:34 AM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Ron Lee) 7. 08:36 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Ron Lee) 8. 08:44 AM - TRIO AUTOPILOT (Bruno) 9. 09:05 AM - Cost of Paint Job (Shemp) 10. 09:05 AM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Tim Bryan) 11. 09:05 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Shemp) 12. 09:07 AM - Re: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting (Shemp) 13. 09:24 AM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Brian Kraut) 14. 09:27 AM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Marty Helller) 15. 09:37 AM - Re: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold (Dale Walter) 16. 10:03 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Andy Gold) 17. 10:04 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Chuck Jensen) 18. 10:25 AM - Re: TRIO AUTOPILOT (Michael W Stewart) 19. 10:33 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (John Jessen) 20. 10:34 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Sam Buchanan) 21. 10:38 AM - Re: TRIO AUTOPILOT (Sam Buchanan) 22. 11:10 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Richard McBride) 23. 11:33 AM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 24. 12:34 PM - Re: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic (Bob J.) 25. 12:41 PM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Bob) 26. 02:42 PM - Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? (Knicholas2@aol.com) 27. 02:44 PM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Steven DiNieri) 28. 03:05 PM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Scott) 29. 03:14 PM - Re: Cost of Paint Job (Doug Medema) 30. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: Cost of Paint Job (Russell Lassetter) 31. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: Cost of Paint Job (David Burton) 32. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? (Sam Buchanan) 33. 04:04 PM - Re: TRIO AUTOPILOT (Paul Besing) 34. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? (Sam Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:48 AM PST US From: Marty Helller Subject: RE: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold Doesn't TRIOs have a offset feature that allows the pilot to chose by 1/10t h of a mile how far right of center line (up to 2 miles) the autopilot will track? Last year, I heard at an FAA safety conference about a program call SLOP; stategic lateral offset procedure.... basically you either fly on center li ne, 1 mile right or 2 miles right.... Helps avoid this type of airborne Russian roulette.... Marty Heller RV-7 (fitting interior systems) From: bobperk90658@bellsouth.netTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: RV-Li st: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude HoldDate: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:46:08 +0000 Sam, You know that the accuracy of the GPS coupled to the autopilot is probably what caused the Brazilian GOL 737, and the Embraer Legacy 600 Collision in October 06 both were at 37,000 feet and on opposing courses between Brasili a and Manause, both probably used the airport coordinates in a common data base. There are probably not more than 75 airplanes in the air in northern Brasil at one time. Sometimes being accurate down to the micron is not go od, and being able to fly an offset course is good. The Trio will do that easily all day long. Just a thought. Trying to justify being a sloppy pil ot }:> ) Bob Perkinson I still marvel at how a sub-$2000 autopilot can hold my plane within a win gspan of the course line with an inexpensive handheld GPS providing the dat a! How many King Airs and Citations can match that? :-) Sam Buchanan _________________________________________________________________ i=92m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold From: Michael W Stewart WWVzLiBJbiBmYWN0IHRoZSB3cml0dGVyIHNhaWQgZXhhY3RseSB0aGF0IGJlbG93Lg0KIlNvbWV0 aW1lcyBiZWluZyBhY2N1cmF0ZSBkb3duIHRvIHRoZSBtaWNyb24gaXMgbm90IGdvb2QsIGFuZCBi ZWluZyBhYmxlIHRvDQpmbHkgYW4gb2Zmc2V0IGNvdXJzZSBpcyBnb29kLiAgVGhlIFRyaW8gd2ls bCBkbyB0aGF0IGVhc2lseSBhbGwgZGF5IGxvbmcuIg0KDQpXZSBldmVuIHVzZSB0aGUgVHJpb3Mg b2Zmc2V0IHRvIGZseSBpbiByb3V0ZSBmb3JtYXRpb24gZnJvbSBBIHRvIEIuIFdvcmtzDQpsaWtl IGEgY2hhbXAuIEJvdXQgaGFsZiBvZiB1cyBhcmUgcnVubmluZyB0aGUgVHJpby4gVGhlIG90aGVy IGhhbGYgd2lzaA0KdGhleSB3ZXJlIHdoZW4gdGhlIFRyaW8gaXMgYnV6emluZyB1cyBhbG9uZyBp 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There are probably not more than > 75 airplanes in the air in northern Brasil at one time. Sometimes > being accurate down to the micron is not good, and being able to fly > an offset course is good. The Trio will do that easily all day long. > Just a thought. Trying to justify being a sloppy pilot }:>) You're right Bob, the guys at Trio recognize that "accurate" sometimes may not be the most comfortable way to navigate. The offset feature does work very nicely even though I hardly ever use it since I'm usually flying "direct" VFR. I have used the offset feature a few times when I saw my direct route was going to take me over a power plant. Another neat feature is the one-button automatic 180 turn. Fortunately I have *never* found the need to use it. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:07 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions on this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the airport to public use? Some have perceived a better protection of the airspace around us. Any thoughts? Thanks Tim Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:00 AM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic A Public Airport will bring more Commerce to your area community and that means more planes, more refueling, more money for local restaurants, and more cash for all the business people in the area. If I see a private airport along my route, I would not land without permission from a member of that airport, if I land at a public airport I spend dollars in that community and it usually starts out with fuel for the plane and me. I live at Breezy Point, MN and we have a private field outside the gates to the Breezy Point Resort, we have 3 golf courses and a 8000 acre lake with crystal clear water within three blocks of the airport. If the members of that field could get the FAA to change it to public it would help our area with real $$$$$. I think the real question is will the FAA accept your airpark? Jim RV9a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bryan" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic > > > I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions on > this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the > airport to public use? Some have perceived a better protection of the > airspace around us. Any thoughts? > Thanks > Tim > Do Not Archive > > > -- > 12/13/2007 9:15 AM > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:18 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic Federal/state funding? Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bryan" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic > > > I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions on > this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the > airport to public use? Some have perceived a better protection of the > airspace around us. Any thoughts? > Thanks > Tim > Do Not Archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:53 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold At the altitudes I fly there is very little traffic. I use flight following and I have been alerted to jets far more than GA aircraft. Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:51 AM PST US From: Bruno Subject: RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT Hello Sam Did you required a special cable to hook up your handheld GPS to your TRIO? I have a Garmin 295 that I could use for this purpose or the GPS built in my BMA Efis Lite G3. Cheers Bruno ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Time: 09:47:23 PM PST US From: bobperk90658@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold Sam, You know that the accuracy of the GPS coupled to the autopilot is probably what caused the Brazilian GOL 737, and the Embraer Legacy 600 Collision in October 06 both were at 37,000 feet and on opposing courses between Brasilia and Manause, both probably used the airport coordinates in a common data base. There are probably not more than 75 airplanes in the air in northern Brasil at one time. Sometimes being accurate down to the micron is not good, and being able to fly an offset course is good. The Trio will do that easily all day long. Just a thought. Trying to justify being a sloppy pilot }:>) Bob Perkinson I still marvel at how a sub-$2000 autopilot can hold my plane within a wingspan of the course line with an inexpensive handheld GPS providing the data! How many King Airs and Citations can match that? :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:09 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job From: Shemp I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. The only "local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job was $7200. I thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a lot of time on my glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. Anyone have a cost of a good relatively simple 2 color paint job that didnt require a lot of work by the painters? Shemp 300+ 6a Chicago mike humphrey wrote: > > > Mike, > In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, > work in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after > 3 1/2 years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries > the 8' fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no > twisting). In my work areas I have added specific lighting to the > situation. Bandsaw, lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have > separate lighting on switches. I would not hang any lighting on the > 16' ceiling though. Lighting disperses geometrically. So whatever > lighting that you choose, suspend it from some cheap chain and lower > it to about 2-3 feet above your highest point on the floor, ie tail of > plane. Reflectors are cheaper than lighting units and you will save > electricity which equals $. More $ to spend on RV's. Remember, > whatever lighting that you put in, you will not want to replace > anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, maintenance will be > easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' step ladder. > Mike H > 9A/8A > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" > > To: > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM > Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting > > >> >> >> >> >> I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for >> information on what type of hanger lighting to install. The ceilings >> will be 16' tall and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good work >> lighting throughout. Also, if anyone knows of the light spacing it >> would help. >> >> Thanks >> -Mike Kraus >> RV-4 Flying >> RV-10 wiring >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:19 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic Thanks Jim, I probably didn't give enough info here. Our airpark does not have any commercial operations and will not ever have. We also do not have fuel. What we were looking at was the ability to better protect our airspace from a neighbor putting up a tower. It also might mean access to federal money although I am not sure how or why we would be able to utilize that. I am not sure of the downsides and that would be my question. I did read that with a private owned but public use it can be used without asking for permission first. There is an opportunity to set the policy or rules so I guess you could also publish that it cannot be used for training such as an outside instructor coming over with a student and doing touch and go landings all day. That would be a definite downside to the owners here. Is there anything else that might be detrimental or beneficial? Thanks Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:28 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off > topic > > > > A Public Airport will bring more Commerce to your area community and that > means more planes, more refueling, more money for local restaurants, and > more cash for all the business people in the area. If I see a private > airport along my route, I would not land without permission from a member > of > that airport, if I land at a public airport I spend dollars in that > community and it usually starts out with fuel for the plane and me. > > I live at Breezy Point, MN and we have a private field outside the gates > to > the Breezy Point Resort, we have 3 golf courses and a 8000 acre lake with > crystal clear water within three blocks of the airport. If the members of > that field could get the FAA to change it to public it would help our area > with real $$$$$. > > I think the real question is will the FAA accept your airpark? > > Jim > RV9a > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Bryan" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:07 AM > Subject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off > topic > > > > > > > > I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions > on > > this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the > > airport to public use? Some have perceived a better protection of the > > airspace around us. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Tim > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > 12/13/2007 9:15 AM > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold From: Shemp Ditto. Alt hold is WAY more helpful than course follower. Plus, if you're flying ifr, you're allowed 5 miles off course but only 300 feet off altitude. However, having both these days is a no brainer. do not archive shemp Bill Boyd wrote: > Ron - from a safety standpoint, it is as you say, but for convenience, > I find that hand flying a GPS course line on cross country to be a > piece of cake compared to maintinaing a VFR cruise altitude when > fumbling with cockpit chores in my RV. Hence I would sooner give up > the a/p function than the convenience of altitude hold. Both work > well and I'm very glad I have them. I have not yet upgraded them over > the most basic functionality. > > On Dec 10, 2007 2:13 PM, Ron Lee > wrote: > > Bill, perhaps I misread your post. If I had to have only one of > the two, > I would pick the EZ-Pilot (wing leveler/follow GPS course). Besides > following a course perfectly, it adds the safety of a wing leveler > IF I ever > enter clouds, a 180 degree option if you enter clouds plus other > functions. > > I can maintain altitude semi-well without an altitude hold and not > flying it > but an altitude hold with the EZ-Pilot (two axis control) would be > ideal. > > Ron Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Boyd > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2007 10:48 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Trio Customer Service > > Absolutely. I'd give up my EZ pilot before I gave up my > altitude hold, for comfortable x/c flying. Trio is > first-rate. If/when they interface with the GRT EFIS systems > for full functionality (tru-trak is the favorite with GRT for > now) I'll be totally content (and perhaps finish my panel > upgrade to all-glass.) > > -Stormy > > On Dec 10, 2007 11:52 AM, Ron Lee > wrote: > > I agree that they are very good. My EZ-Pilot allowed me > to fly eight hours > in one day recently with minimal fatigue other than a sore > derrierre. > > Now I need to get the altitude hold to make long > cross-countries even easier. > > Ron Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Paul Besing > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2007 8:41 AM > *Subject:* RV-List: Trio Customer Service > > Hey all..quick note. Have an EZ Pilot in my RV-4. > Put it in about a year +. It quit holding a course > and would engage and disengage the servo. I called > trio, they said, "another one is on the way". 2 Days > later I had a new one. They said to ship the other > back when I had the chance. I installed it, it was > programmed already for my aircraft, and it worked > perfectly. Absolutely wonderful customer service. > Don't forget those guys when you are building your panel. > > Paul Besing > RV-4 N73DD > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > * > > * > > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting From: Shemp Has anyone mentioned the Sodium vapor lights? I have them in my hangar and love em. They take a while to warm up but offer great light in a large space. Shemp Tim Bryan wrote: > > > >> ? - Why wouldn't the 65 watt fluorescent units that you talk about below >> suffer >> from the same effects (or is it affects)? >> >> Regards, >> /\/elson >> >> > > [Tim] They still get brighter as they warm up but they don't flicker like > the 8 foot fluorescents do. 4 foot fluorescents don't really flicker to > bad, but these lights use a lens that helps get the light down. They say > they are equivalent to a 500 watt but it is only 65 watts of power. > > I like them except for they are hard to mount on a flat ceiling. > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:49 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic One obvious thing you need to consider if you go public is the insurance and liability issues. I would imagine that going public would greatly increase the insurance costs if the airpark has insurance and will also increase your exposure to liability. Check with your insurance company on the implications. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic Thanks Jim, I probably didn't give enough info here. Our airpark does not have any commercial operations and will not ever have. We also do not have fuel. What we were looking at was the ability to better protect our airspace from a neighbor putting up a tower. It also might mean access to federal money although I am not sure how or why we would be able to utilize that. I am not sure of the downsides and that would be my question. I did read that with a private owned but public use it can be used without asking for permission first. There is an opportunity to set the policy or rules so I guess you could also publish that it cannot be used for training such as an outside instructor coming over with a student and doing touch and go landings all day. That would be a definite downside to the owners here. Is there anything else that might be detrimental or beneficial? Thanks Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:28 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off > topic > > > > A Public Airport will bring more Commerce to your area community and that > means more planes, more refueling, more money for local restaurants, and > more cash for all the business people in the area. If I see a private > airport along my route, I would not land without permission from a member > of > that airport, if I land at a public airport I spend dollars in that > community and it usually starts out with fuel for the plane and me. > > I live at Breezy Point, MN and we have a private field outside the gates > to > the Breezy Point Resort, we have 3 golf courses and a 8000 acre lake with > crystal clear water within three blocks of the airport. If the members of > that field could get the FAA to change it to public it would help our area > with real $$$$$. > > I think the real question is will the FAA accept your airpark? > > Jim > RV9a > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Bryan" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:07 AM > Subject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off > topic > > > > > > > > I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions > on > > this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the > > airport to public use? Some have perceived a better protection of the > > airspace around us. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Tim > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > 12/13/2007 9:15 AM > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:06 AM PST US From: Marty Helller Subject: RE: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic How about IFR access? The FAA is putting in space based instrument approac hes (RNAV) at public airports in order to increase airport access and reduc e the accident rate. Contact me off-line to discuss... or have the airport manager contact the l ocal Airports District Office.... also see. gps.faa.gov for an how to get WAAS at your airport handout Marty Heller RV-7 (fitting internal systems) and contract support to the WAAS program office > From: n616tb@btsapps.com> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV-Lis t: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic> Date: Thu, 13 6tb@btsapps.com>> > Thanks Jim,> > I probably didn't give enough info here. Our airpark does not have any> commercial operations and will not ever hav e. We also do not have fuel.> What we were looking at was the ability to be tter protect our airspace from> a neighbor putting up a tower. It also migh t mean access to federal money> although I am not sure how or why we would be able to utilize that. I am> not sure of the downsides and that would be my question.> > I did read that with a private owned but public use it can be used without> asking for permission first. There is an opportunity to se t the policy or> rules so I guess you could also publish that it cannot be used for training> such as an outside instructor coming over with a student and doing touch and> go landings all day. That would be a definite downsid e to the owners here.> > Is there anything else that might be detrimental o r beneficial?> Thanks> Tim> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: owner-r v-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty> > Sent: Thursday, Dece mber 13, 2007 10:28 AM> > To: rv-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List : Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off> > topic> > > > --> R V-List message posted by: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty"> > > > > > A Public Airport will bring more Commerce to your area community and that> > means more planes, more refueling, more money for loc al restaurants, and> > more cash for all the business people in the area. I f I see a private> > airport along my route, I would not land without permi ssion from a member> > of> > that airport, if I land at a public airport I spend dollars in that> > community and it usually starts out with fuel for the plane and me.> > > > I live at Breezy Point, MN and we have a private f ield outside the gates> > to> > the Breezy Point Resort, we have 3 golf cou rses and a 8000 acre lake with> > crystal clear water within three blocks o f the airport. If the members of> > that field could get the FAA to change it to public it would help our area> > with real $$$$$.> > > > I think the real question is will the FAA accept your airpark?> > > > Jim> > RV9a> > -- --- Original Message -----> > From: "Tim Bryan" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:07 AM> > Su bject: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off> > topi om>> > >> > >> > > I know this is a little off topic, but there is so many great opinions> > on> > > this list. What would be advantages of a private airpark changing the> > > airport to public use? Some have perceived a bett er protection of the> > > airspace around us. Any thoughts?> > > Thanks> > > Tim> > > Do Not Archive> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > 1 ==============> > > _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_1220 07 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:44 AM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold What kind of elevator trim do you have? If electric; does it have a setting to allow fine tuning? Mine does. I can adjust the trim to hold altitude within 100 feet reasonably. I would be disappointed if I was a builder, could not afford both and bought alt hold instead of a Trio (or TruTrak) that tracked. I have both and hundreds of hours of cross country before and after installing each. Just wanted to present another opinion, supported by a lot of flying. BTW, I also believe if you are doing frequent trips over 800 miles you deserve both. Dale RV6a TT 960hrs -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shemp Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold Ditto. Alt hold is WAY more helpful than course follower. Plus, if you're flying ifr, you're allowed 5 miles off course but only 300 feet off altitude. However, having both these days is a no brainer. do not archive shemp ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:47 AM PST US From: "Andy Gold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job I painted my plane with three colors of Imron. The total cost of materials was about $400. I did all the prep work myself, built a booth in my garage, and asked a local pro to come over and squirt the top coat. He did a great job and had about 2 hours into the whole thing. I bought him a case of scotch and went flying with him a couple times. Everyone walked away very happy. With mine, the prep work was just that - "work". Its nothing difficult or anything that requries any unusual skills. But it takes a lot of time and that's why your local shop wants $7200. The only part of the job that takes skill and experience to get right is the final squirt. If you want to see how to prep and paint your RV, get Sam James's Painting 101 video. (Its at Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ) Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shemp" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:59 AM Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job > > I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. The > only "local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job was $7200. > I thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a lot of time on my > glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. Anyone have a cost of a > good relatively simple 2 color paint job that didnt require a lot of work > by the painters? > > Shemp > 300+ > 6a > Chicago > > mike humphrey wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, work >> in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after 3 1/2 >> years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries the 8' >> fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no twisting). In my >> work areas I have added specific lighting to the situation. Bandsaw, >> lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have separate lighting on switches. >> I would not hang any lighting on the 16' ceiling though. Lighting >> disperses geometrically. So whatever lighting that you choose, suspend >> it from some cheap chain and lower it to about 2-3 feet above your >> highest point on the floor, ie tail of plane. Reflectors are cheaper >> than lighting units and you will save electricity which equals $. More $ >> to spend on RV's. Remember, whatever lighting that you put in, you will >> not want to replace anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, >> maintenance will be easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' >> step ladder. >> Mike H >> 9A/8A >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" >> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM >> Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information >>> on what type of hanger lighting to install. The ceilings will be 16' >>> tall and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good work lighting throughout. >>> Also, if anyone knows of the light spacing it would help. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Mike Kraus >>> RV-4 Flying >>> RV-10 wiring >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job From: "Chuck Jensen" Shemp, Rarely is the prep work done by a builder even close to the degree of finish that a quality painter requires. The builder/owner thinks just a few hours of touch up is all that is required, but more often, its like several days or a week or more. If the local shop does a high quality prep job and paint to match, $7,200 isn't unreasonable. If he's doing an "Earl Schribe" type paint job, then $5,000 is way too much. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Shemp Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. The only "local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job was $7200. I thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a lot of time on my glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. Anyone have a cost of a good relatively simple 2 color paint job that didnt require a lot of work by the painters? Shemp 300+ 6a Chicago mike humphrey wrote: > > > Mike, > In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, > work in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after > 3 1/2 years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries > the 8' fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no > twisting). In my work areas I have added specific lighting to the > situation. Bandsaw, lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have > separate lighting on switches. I would not hang any lighting on the > 16' ceiling though. Lighting disperses geometrically. So whatever > lighting that you choose, suspend it from some cheap chain and lower > it to about 2-3 feet above your highest point on the floor, ie tail of > plane. Reflectors are cheaper than lighting units and you will save > electricity which equals $. More $ to spend on RV's. Remember, > whatever lighting that you put in, you will not want to replace > anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, maintenance will be > easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' step ladder. > Mike H > 9A/8A > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" > > To: > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM > Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting > > >> >> >> >> >> I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for >> information on what type of hanger lighting to install. The ceilings >> will be 16' tall and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good work >> lighting throughout. Also, if anyone knows of the light spacing it >> would help. >> >> Thanks >> -Mike Kraus >> RV-4 Flying >> RV-10 wiring >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT From: Michael W Stewart Both can be used to drive the Trio. I know cause I have done so with both myself. Mike Bruno To Sent by: RV LIST owner-rv-list-ser cc ver@matronics.com Subj ect RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT 12/13/2007 11:41 AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics .com Hello Sam Did you required a special cable to hook up your handheld GPS to your TRIO? I have a Garmin 295 that I could use for this purpose or the GPS built in my BMA Efis Lite G3. Cheers Bruno ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Time: 09:47:23 PM PST US From: bobperk90658@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold Sam, You know that the accuracy of the GPS coupled to the autopilot is proba bly what caused the Brazilian GOL 737, and the Embraer Legacy 600 Collision in October 06 both were at 37,000 feet and on opposing courses between Brasilia an d Manause, both probably used the airport coordinates in a common data base. Ther e are probably not more than 75 airplanes in the air in northern Brasil a t one time. Sometimes being accurate down to the micron is not good, and being able to fly an offset course is good. The Trio will do that easily all day long. Just a thought. Trying to justify being a sloppy pilot }:>) Bob Perkinson I still marvel at how a sub-$2000 autopilot can hold my plane within a wingspan of the course line with an inexpensive handheld GPS providing the data! How many King Airs and Citations can match that? :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job From: John Jessen Take a look at Randy's Lervold's write-up of his RV-3B paint process. I've seen the final outcome and it looks great. He is a meticulous and thoughtful builder, so you can trust his commentary. I have never painted more than the interior walls of my house, so cannot say anything about this topic, but the statement below, "the prep work...takes a lot of time and that's why your local shop wants..." $$ is the truth. You just need to know what to do and how to do it. Then you need to decide if your labor is worth the savings. Applying the paint is the skill part. The rest is time and effort. http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Paint/paint.htm John J 40328 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:59 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job I painted my plane with three colors of Imron. The total cost of materials was about $400. I did all the prep work myself, built a booth in my garage, and asked a local pro to come over and squirt the top coat. He did a great job and had about 2 hours into the whole thing. I bought him a case of scotch and went flying with him a couple times. Everyone walked away very happy. With mine, the prep work was just that - "work". Its nothing difficult or anything that requries any unusual skills. But it takes a lot of time and that's why your local shop wants $7200. The only part of the job that takes skill and experience to get right is the final squirt. If you want to see how to prep and paint your RV, get Sam James's Painting 101 video. (Its at Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ) Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shemp" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:59 AM Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job > > I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. The > only "local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job was $7200. > I thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a lot of time on my > glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. Anyone have a cost of a > good relatively simple 2 color paint job that didnt require a lot of work > by the painters? > > Shemp > 300+ > 6a > Chicago > > mike humphrey wrote: >> >> >> Mike, >> In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, work >> in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after 3 1/2 >> years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries the 8' >> fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no twisting). In my >> work areas I have added specific lighting to the situation. Bandsaw, >> lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have separate lighting on switches. >> I would not hang any lighting on the 16' ceiling though. Lighting >> disperses geometrically. So whatever lighting that you choose, suspend >> it from some cheap chain and lower it to about 2-3 feet above your >> highest point on the floor, ie tail of plane. Reflectors are cheaper >> than lighting units and you will save electricity which equals $. More $ >> to spend on RV's. Remember, whatever lighting that you put in, you will >> not want to replace anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, >> maintenance will be easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' >> step ladder. >> Mike H >> 9A/8A >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" >> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM >> Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information >>> on what type of hanger lighting to install. The ceilings will be 16' >>> tall and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good work lighting throughout. >>> Also, if anyone knows of the light spacing it would help. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Mike Kraus >>> RV-4 Flying >>> RV-10 wiring >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:42 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job Andy Gold wrote: > > I painted my plane with three colors of Imron. The total cost of > materials was about $400. I did all the prep work myself, built a booth > in my garage, and asked a local pro to come over and squirt the top > coat. He did a great job and had about 2 hours into the whole thing. I > bought him a case of scotch and went flying with him a couple times. > Everyone walked away very happy. > > With mine, the prep work was just that - "work". Its nothing difficult > or anything that requries any unusual skills. But it takes a lot of > time and that's why your local shop wants $7200. The only part of the > job that takes skill and experience to get right is the final squirt. > > If you want to see how to prep and paint your RV, get Sam James's > Painting 101 video. (Its at Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ) > When I painted my RV-6 eight years ago, my cost of materials (PPG Concept single stage) was close to $1000. Wish I could've sprayed my plane in two hours...bet I had 15 hours just in masking.............. )-: I used to think aircraft paint jobs were outrageously priced. After painting a couple of planes, I am amazed a paint shop can stay in business by only charging $7000. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:07 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT Bruno wrote: > Hello Sam > > Did you required a special cable to hook up your handheld GPS to your > TRIO? > > I have a Garmin 295 that I could use for this purpose or the GPS > built in my BMA Efis Lite G3. > > Cheers > > Bruno Bruno, the cable is special only in the sense that it has to have the proper connector to plug into the GPS. Most GPS vendors have a data/power cable for the popular models, and all you have to do is connect the data transmit wire in the cable to the EZ-Pilot. Just make sure you Garmin can send NMEA data (most if not all Garmins can). The BMA unit may be a little problematic. From reading the BMA forum, I know there have been issues with getting good NMEA out of some of the BMA devices, a call to Greg or the guys at Trio might be in order. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:33 AM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job I had my -8 painted two summers ago. I probably got a dozen quotes from companies with RV experience from all over the country. Mine was a multi-colored paint scheme and my quotes ranged from about $4900 to $7000 for a single stage job and $6500 to $12,000 for a base coat/clear coat job. I decided on a base coat/clear coat for $8500 from Prestige Paint in upsate Vermont (see the Yellerpages). I would suggest you shop around. Additionally, virtually every shop I spoke to said they include a few hours labor for prep in their quote because they rarely experienced an airplane that was indeed ready for final color coating. You'll be hard pressed to get them to quote less unless they see your work. Rick McBride RV-8 N523RJ >From: Shemp >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:59:57 -0600 > > >I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. The only >"local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job was $7200. I >thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a lot of time on my >glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. Anyone have a cost of a >good relatively simple 2 color paint job that didnt require a lot of work >by the painters? > >Shemp >300+ >6a >Chicago > >mike humphrey wrote: >> >> >>Mike, >>In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, work >>in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs after 3 1/2 >>years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's carries the 8' >>fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, no twisting). In my >>work areas I have added specific lighting to the situation. Bandsaw, >>lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have separate lighting on switches. >>I would not hang any lighting on the 16' ceiling though. Lighting >>disperses geometrically. So whatever lighting that you choose, suspend it >>from some cheap chain and lower it to about 2-3 feet above your highest >>point on the floor, ie tail of plane. Reflectors are cheaper than >>lighting units and you will save electricity which equals $. More $ to >>spend on RV's. Remember, whatever lighting that you put in, you will not >>want to replace anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, maintenance >>will be easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' step ladder. >>Mike H >>9A/8A >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" >> >>To: >>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM >>Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for information on >>>what type of hanger lighting to install. The ceilings will be 16' tall >>>and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good work lighting throughout. Also, >>>if anyone knows of the light spacing it would help. >>> >>>Thanks >>>-Mike Kraus >>>RV-4 Flying >>>RV-10 wiring >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:35 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job In a message dated 12/13/2007 12:36:18 PM Central Standard Time, sbuc@hiwaay.net writes: I used to think aircraft paint jobs were outrageously priced. After painting a couple of planes, I am amazed a paint shop can stay in business by only charging $7000. >>> Same here. Doug Reeves used to have paint shop reviews on his Vans Air Force website, but it looks like they are gone. Here is a description of my most excellent paint shop experience, courtesy of Bobby Potts at TCL, Tuscaloosa, AL (you didn't REALLY want to paint in the snow, didja?!). Damage was $7K almost 3yrs ago, and very happy to pay it: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) (The Expercraft website seems to down right now, but try later- select Painting link from bottom of left column of homepage above) Mark Phillips Columbia, TN **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:56 PM PST US From: "Bob J." Subject: Re: RV-List: Public vs Private use airpark - I know a little off topic Going public will make your airport property tax exempt...no property taxes on the runway and hangars. The airpark we live on is a public airport and as such has to be inspected by the state aviation department once a year. Insurance is reasonable, under $3K/year. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:05 PM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job >When I painted my RV-6 eight years ago, my cost of materials (PPG >Concept single stage) was close to $1000. > >Wish I could've sprayed my plane in two hours...bet I had 15 hours >just in masking.............. )-: > >Sam Buchanan I agree. And I only painted a single color with no primer! Even with a single color, you still have to mask!?! Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:33 PM PST US From: Knicholas2@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? Can the Trio read the signal from a hand held iPaq and Anywhere Map? Kim Nicholas Seattle RV9A **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:36 PM PST US From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job Heres a pic of my 6a getting painted at my shop. I parked it in front during the day to showoff but had to move it because it caused a few accidents with the traffic out front. Any quality auto paint shop can do a great job. Just pull the wings and flatbed the fuse. I did mine in basecoat clearcoat because the painters were most familiar with that system. I think I have 500-600 in materials and 20hrs of shop time. Steve dinieri Iflyrv10 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job Andy Gold wrote: > > I painted my plane with three colors of Imron. The total cost of > materials was about $400. I did all the prep work myself, built a booth > in my garage, and asked a local pro to come over and squirt the top > coat. He did a great job and had about 2 hours into the whole thing. I > bought him a case of scotch and went flying with him a couple times. > Everyone walked away very happy. > > With mine, the prep work was just that - "work". Its nothing difficult > or anything that requries any unusual skills. But it takes a lot of > time and that's why your local shop wants $7200. The only part of the > job that takes skill and experience to get right is the final squirt. > > If you want to see how to prep and paint your RV, get Sam James's > Painting 101 video. (Its at Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ) > When I painted my RV-6 eight years ago, my cost of materials (PPG Concept single stage) was close to $1000. Wish I could've sprayed my plane in two hours...bet I had 15 hours just in masking.............. )-: I used to think aircraft paint jobs were outrageously priced. After painting a couple of planes, I am amazed a paint shop can stay in business by only charging $7000. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:11 PM PST US From: Scott Subject: Re: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job Man, am I glad I'm going the polished route!! I think I can do the few fiberglass parts with spray bombs from Wal Mart... Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) Andy Gold wrote: > > I painted my plane with three colors of Imron. The total cost of > materials was about $400. I did all the prep work myself, built a > booth in my garage, and asked a local pro to come over and squirt the > top coat. He did a great job and had about 2 hours into the whole > thing. I bought him a case of scotch and went flying with him a couple > times. Everyone walked away very happy. > > With mine, the prep work was just that - "work". Its nothing difficult > or anything that requries any unusual skills. But it takes a lot of > time and that's why your local shop wants $7200. The only part of the > job that takes skill and experience to get right is the final squirt. > > If you want to see how to prep and paint your RV, get Sam James's > Painting 101 video. (Its at Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com ) > > Andy > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shemp" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:59 AM > Subject: RV-List: Cost of Paint Job > > >> >> I'm shopping around for a paint job and am getting sticker shock. >> The only "local" shop around Chicago told me his last RV paint job >> was $7200. I thought they typically cost around 5000. I've spent a >> lot of time on my glass stuff and its pretty much ready to paint. >> Anyone have a cost of a good relatively simple 2 color paint job that >> didnt require a lot of work by the painters? >> >> Shemp >> 300+ >> 6a >> Chicago >> >> mike humphrey wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Mike, >>> In my hanger I have the T-12 cold weather 8' units. Great lighting, >>> work in cold fine, easy to replace, just started replacing bulbs >>> after 3 1/2 years continual use, pricey but great lighting. Lowe's >>> carries the 8' fixture and bulbs(green ends and they just push in, >>> no twisting). In my work areas I have added specific lighting to >>> the situation. Bandsaw, lathe, drill press (dangerous areas) have >>> separate lighting on switches. I would not hang any lighting on the >>> 16' ceiling though. Lighting disperses geometrically. So whatever >>> lighting that you choose, suspend it from some cheap chain and lower >>> it to about 2-3 feet above your highest point on the floor, ie tail >>> of plane. Reflectors are cheaper than lighting units and you will >>> save electricity which equals $. More $ to spend on RV's. >>> Remember, whatever lighting that you put in, you will not want to >>> replace anytime soon, if ever, by lowering your units, maintenance >>> will be easier also, unless you just happen to have a 16' step ladder. >>> Mike H >>> 9A/8A >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kraus" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:01 AM >>> Subject: RV-List: Off Topic: Hanger Lighting >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am building a new hanger on my house and was looking for >>>> information on what type of hanger lighting to install. The >>>> ceilings will be 16' tall and it is 44' x 60'. I would like good >>>> work lighting throughout. Also, if anyone knows of the light >>>> spacing it would help. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Mike Kraus >>>> RV-4 Flying >>>> RV-10 wiring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:43 PM PST US From: "Doug Medema" Subject: RV-List: Re: Cost of Paint Job I just got done having my plane painted. I also shopped around and had quotes of $7000 (plus any required body work) to $10,000. I decided it was too much and would do it on my own. Boy was I naive! I couldn't do anything in my own hangar at a public airport, so I made arrangements to work at a friend's hangar at an airpark. I proceeded to take the whole airplane apart and set up a paint booth in a Costco car tent in my back yard. I bought a big compressor and a DeVilbiss FinishLine 3 HVLP gun. Based on Randy Lervold's recommendations, I went with PPG Concept. I washed, acid etched, scuffed and alodyned all the aluminum. I spent a lot of time on the fiberglass and used almost a whole gallon of K38 high build primer, most of which ended up on everything in my shop when I sanded it off. I also used quite a bit of SuperFil. I started painting the color coats with white Concept. It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible either. Had the usual problems with dust, runs, and orange peel. There is a real art to putting on the final coat. You really can't sand very much because you will cut through a rivet or just a high spot on the aluminum. When I painted the empennage fairing with a dark blue, I kind of lost it. The one piece had orange peel, runs, and dust everywhere, even with fans and filters. I decided I couldn't do a job I would be happy with. I went back to the shop who quoted $10,000 and asked them how much just to put on the color. They said between $3000 and $4000. Based on really good review from a person I trust (Terry Burch), I decided to go ahead an do that. I brought the pieces to them in sanded primer/sealer. They had to spray a coat of primer and then basecoat clearcoat. I ended up eating some Concept, but that's the way it goes. I spent upwards of 200 hours over the summer doing the prep and priming. I know it's a lot of hours, but there is a lot to do, especially with the fiberglass work. There are a lot of pin holes and they will show up if you don't totally take care of them. I had one of the very first S type cowls, and it was rough in places. I ended up spending about $3000 for materials plus $3800 to the paint shop. This doesn't count the compressor, paint gun, tent, lights, fans, etc. Plenty of people paint there own airplanes, and I admire them for it. It is a lot of work. I took my plane down in late April and didn't fly again until September. In hindsight, I really wished I had just bit the bullet and had the whole thing done. That is one person's opinion. Your mileage may vary. If your curious on how it came out, check out: home.comcast.net/~doug.medema. Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:12 PM PST US From: "Russell Lassetter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Cost of Paint Job Doug, Man you hit the nail on the head. I've painted a few airplanes and the amount of work required for a nice finish is much more than you would think. Russ -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Medema Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:13 PM To: RV-List@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Cost of Paint Job I just got done having my plane painted. I also shopped around and had quotes of $7000 (plus any required body work) to $10,000. I decided it was too much and would do it on my own. Boy was I naive! ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:52 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Cost of Paint Job Hi Doug, Good advice. There is the pride of having done most of it yourself and I'm sure it was a good learning experience. Regardless of how you got there the plane looks fabulous! I can't wait to see it in person. Dave, RV6 _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Medema Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:13 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Cost of Paint Job I just got done having my plane painted ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:52 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? Knicholas2@aol.com wrote: > Can the Trio read the signal from a hand held iPaq and Anywhere Map? > > Kim Nicholas > Seattle > RV9A Kim, the last I heard on this matter was....no. It seems AWM doesn't send the data in a format that EZ-Pilot needs in order to clear the tight filters that are part of the Trio software. I know Trio was working with a customer that had AWM so I suggest a call to Trio to make sure some recent developments haven't proved me wrong. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:56 PM PST US From: Paul Besing Subject: Re: RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT I have a 396 and it works fine. There is a special connector you can get from Garmin and others that has single wires coming out to splice into your autopilot harness. I think I got mine right from Garmin if I remember. Paul Besing ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael W Stewart Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:21:43 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT Both can be used to drive the Trio. I know cause I have done so with both myself. Mike Bruno Bruno Sent by: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com 12/13/2007 11:41 AM Please respond to rv-list@matronics.com To RV LIST cc Subject RV-List: TRIO AUTOPILOT Hello Sam Did you required a special cable to hook up your handheld GPS to your TRIO? I have a Garmin 295 that I could use for this purpose or the GPS built in my BMA Efis Lite G3. Cheers Bruno ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Time: 09:47:23 PM PST US From: bobperk90658@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio EZ-Pilot or Altitude Hold Sam, You know that the accuracy of the GPS coupled to the autopilot is probably what caused the Brazilian GOL 737, and the Embraer Legacy 600 Collision in October 06 both were at 37,000 feet and on opposing courses between Brasilia and Manause, both probably used the airport coordinates in a common data base. There are probably not more than 75 airplanes in the air in northern Brasil at one time. Sometimes being accurate down to the micron is not good, and being able to fly an offset course is good. The Trio will do that easily all day long. Just a thought. Trying to justify being a sloppy pilot }:>) Bob Perkinson I still marvel at how a sub-$2000 autopilot can hold my plane within a wingspan of the course line with an inexpensive handheld GPS providing the data! How many King Airs and Citations can match that? :-) Sam Buchanan Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:01 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: : TRIO AUTOPILOT & Anywhere Map/iPaq? Sam Buchanan wrote: > > Knicholas2@aol.com wrote: >> Can the Trio read the signal from a hand held iPaq and Anywhere Map? >> >> Kim Nicholas >> Seattle >> RV9A Update: I have just been informed from a *very* good source (its amazing how many vendors monitor these forums!) that at least some of the versions of AnywhereMap software do indeed output a data stream that works nicely with the EZ-Pilot. However.....the problem lies with the new PDA platforms that don't provide a serial port. Many of the newest PDAs only provide Bluetooth connectivity and there is considerable concern as to whether or not Bluetooth is reliable enough to be driving an autopilot, and Trio doesn't support Bluetooth connectivity. So, if you have an older PDA that has a RS232 data port, AWM may indeed drive an autopilot. When I was actively using AWM in their earlier days, it would sorta drive my old Navaid, but left me high and dry when I upgraded to the EZ-Pilot. Apparently some of the newer versions of the software play nice with the EZ-Pilot. As usual, the best course to take is to call the vendors and get the scoop directly from them. Sam Buchanan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.