Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:17 AM - cutting off the sticks (Charles Heathco)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: cutting off the sticks (Ron Lee)
3. 07:34 AM - Re: King A&P Mechanics Exam Courses (Chris Brooks)
4. 07:54 AM - Re: Just a Few Van's Belt Buckles.. (gbrasch)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: cutting off the sticks (Jim Sears)
6. 08:35 AM - Re: good warning label (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
7. 08:41 AM - Re: cutting off the sticks (Ed Anderson)
8. 10:08 AM - Re: cutting off sticks (Dan Ross)
9. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: Just a Few Van's Belt Buckles.. (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
10. 04:04 PM - Re: cutting off the sticks (David Leonard)
11. 06:08 PM - Re: cutting off the sticks (linn Walters)
12. 06:44 PM - Re: cutting off the sticks (Jim Sears)
13. 07:59 PM - Re: cutting off the sticks (Fiveonepw@AOL.COM)
14. 08:53 PM - Re: good warning label (mike humphrey)
15. 09:31 PM - Re: good warning label (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | cutting off the sticks |
Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an hr of
taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with top of your
hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in shortened. on
landing I was having a very hard time holding the nose off, so next time
I flew my 6a I tried holding the stick down low, same posit as the
taildrager stick, and found same thing, very hard to hold nose off.(fist
in crotch) I usuallly fly around with hand on thigh, holding stick low,
but always take off and land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up
high. Charlie Heathco
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
Interesting. While waiting to cut the stick may make sense,
I fly, take-off and land with my hand on my thigh and my fingers
low on the stick. I have to use another hand to activate the
PTT switch on top of the stick.
If I remember, I will provide actual numbers for reference. Note that
I have not done aerobatics in my plane so that may make a difference.
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: cutting off the sticks
Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an hr of
taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with top of your
hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in shortened. on
landing I was having a very hard time holding the nose off, so next time
I flew my 6a I tried holding the stick down low, same posit as the
taildrager stick, and found same thing, very hard to hold nose off.(fist
in crotch) I usuallly fly around with hand on thigh, holding stick low,
but always take off and land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up
high. Charlie Heathco
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: King A&P Mechanics Exam Courses |
Bill, I rented them from justplanevideos.com. They have lots of aviation re
lated videos for rent.
Chris
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Just a Few Van's Belt Buckles.. |
All the two tone models are gone, but I have three very nice Nickel models left.
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360
Tucson, Arizona
Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles
http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153271#153271
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
When I built Scooter, I installed a 2 inch sub panel. With the sticks
at full length, the stick would get into the panel. I shortened mine
two inches and have seen no problems with that. I also fly my RV with
my hands well below the top of the stick; but, I move my hand to the top
of the stick for take off and landing work.
Cutting the sticks off as much as six inches may be overkill. A longer
stick gives leverage and allows for smaller inputs at crucial times.
I'd do mine with two inches cut off, again. I'd probably not go beyond
that.
Jim Sears in KY
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: cutting off the sticks
Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an hr of
taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with top of your
hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in shortened. on
landing I was having a very hard time holding the nose off, so next time
I flew my 6a I tried holding the stick down low, same posit as the
taildrager stick, and found same thing, very hard to hold nose off.(fist
in crotch) I usuallly fly around with hand on thigh, holding stick low,
but always take off and land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up
high. Charlie Heathco
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: good warning label |
Don,
How about the fittings are they standard AN4 fittings that would be
compatible to our fittings? You have the hoses in your shop, do they
fit okay on the brake fittings? Do you think it would be a good place
to order our brake hoses through and how was their service and turn
around time?
Do you have a link to the shop you are working with?
Jim
RV9 Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ & Marilyn
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Tell them it's for a snow blower.
----- Original Message -----
From: Konrad L. Werner
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Paul,
Being that straight forward would definitely defeat the purpose, now
wouldn't it? It is not what you say, but how you say it: I would try "I
need custom brake lines for an off road-RV" certainly wouldn't even be
considered lying...
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Go to the speedshop and tell them it's for an airplane and look
stupid and ask for advice...they'll push you out the door and lock it
and tell you to never come back...
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: Konrad L. Werner <klwerner@comcast.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:19:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Don,
You should be fine (as long as the hose material is compatible
with the brake fluid). Just don't ever land on a highway, not even in
an emergency, as you would be violating the hose's approval!!!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Hall
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: good warning label.
Your ironic humor for today:
I'm adding the matco parking brake and needed to order some
shorter brake lines. Found some 20" steel braided straight an4 lines
from an online auto/performance website.
They came with the label: "Warning: Competition/Off Road Use
Only. Not approved for highway use."
Hmmm. Well. I do hope to go "off road", so I'm thinking I
should be good.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
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12/17/2007 2:13 PM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
A few years back, Van himself responded to the "Shorten" the stick
question. He was not for it. As best I recall, he stated that
shortening the stick could cause stick loads doing aerobatics to become
uncomfortably high.
While I will cruise with my arm on my knee and fingers gripping the
stick about 4 -6 inches below the top, I found that in landing with my
hand in that position that stick loads did become higher and
responsiveness a bit twitchy. Perhaps continued practice would have
improved my performance.
IF you are considering shorting the stick, I would suggest try flying
an RV through a number of typical maneuvers with your hand at the
"shorten" position and then decide.
My 0.02
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: RV-List: cutting off the sticks
Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an hr of
taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with top of your
hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in shortened. on
landing I was having a very hard time holding the nose off, so next time
I flew my 6a I tried holding the stick down low, same posit as the
taildrager stick, and found same thing, very hard to hold nose off.(fist
in crotch) I usuallly fly around with hand on thigh, holding stick low,
but always take off and land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up
high. Charlie Heathco
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off sticks |
Guys: I cut 3" off my -9A stick with no problems noted. Note: The -9s are
not acrobatic. Dan
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Just a Few Van's Belt Buckles.. |
Glenn, Make that 2 left! Sure wish I hadn't missed out on the two tone! If run
across one in the future I'll take it also.
Tom in Ohio RV6-A
----- Original Message -----
From: "gbrasch" <gbrasch@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:53:49 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: RV-List: Re: Just a Few Van's Belt Buckles..
All the two tone models are gone, but I have three very nice Nickel models left.
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Finishing #90623, O-360
Tucson, Arizona
Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles
http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153271#153271
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
I cut off 2 or 3 inches an am glad I did. It could even stand to loose
another inch or so. I made the cut by sitting in the aircraft (with
simulated cushons etc) and played with it to see what I liked. Full length
stick definately got too close to the panel.
Stick forces are not even close to being a problem even when landing or
doing aerobatics.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
On Dec 20, 2007 8:15 AM, Jim Sears <jmsears@adelphia.net> wrote:
> When I built Scooter, I installed a 2 inch sub panel. With the sticks at
> full length, the stick would get into the panel. I shortened mine two
> inches and have seen no problems with that. I also fly my RV with my hands
> well below the top of the stick; but, I move my hand to the top of the stick
> for take off and landing work.
>
> Cutting the sticks off as much as six inches may be overkill. A longer
> stick gives leverage and allows for smaller inputs at crucial times. I'd do
> mine with two inches cut off, again. I'd probably not go beyond that.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Charles Heathco <cheathco@cox.net>
> *To:* rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
> *Subject:* RV-List: cutting off the sticks
>
> Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
> considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an hr of
> taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with top of your
> hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in shortened. on landing
> I was having a very hard time holding the nose off, so next time I flew my
> 6a I tried holding the stick down low, same posit as the taildrager stick,
> and found same thing, very hard to hold nose off.(fist in crotch) I usuallly
> fly around with hand on thigh, holding stick low, but always take off and
> land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up high. Charlie Heathco
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
Hi Jim! Just for grins, how much down elevator would you have when the
original stick hit the sub-panel??? Just for grins, how tight an
outside loop would you do with the stick against the sub-panel??? Do
you do a lot of rolling inverted and push to upright??? Man, I hate
those negative Gs!!! :-D
Linn .... moving the -10 kit from the airport to the workshop. Sounds
like I'm working backwards, doesn't it???
do not archive
Jim Sears wrote:
> When I built Scooter, I installed a 2 inch sub panel. With the sticks
> at full length, the stick would get into the panel. I shortened mine
> two inches and have seen no problems with that. I also fly my RV with
> my hands well below the top of the stick; but, I move my hand to the
> top of the stick for take off and landing work.
>
> Cutting the sticks off as much as six inches may be overkill. A
> longer stick gives leverage and allows for smaller inputs at crucial
> times. I'd do mine with two inches cut off, again. I'd probably not
> go beyond that.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Heathco <mailto:cheathco@cox.net>
> To: rv-list <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
> Subject: RV-List: cutting off the sticks
>
> Dont do it! Anyone who is on here actually building. if you are
> considering shortnig your stick, think twice. I recently took an
> hr of taildrager time in a 6 with stick cut where top is even with
> top of your hand when laying on your thigh, about 5 or maybe 6 in
> shortened. on landing I was having a very hard time holding the
> nose off, so next time I flew my 6a I tried holding the stick down
> low, same posit as the taildrager stick, and found same thing,
> very hard to hold nose off.(fist in crotch) I usuallly fly around
> with hand on thigh, holding stick low, but always take off and
> land, as well as tight manuvers with hand up high. Charlie Heathco
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
>> Just for grins, how much down elevator would you have when the original
>> stick hit the sub-panel??? Just for grins, how tight an outside loop
>> would you do with the stick against the sub-panel???<<
Somebody is trying to be a smart ass, huh? :-) I thought all of that out;
but, the problem was the fact that I'd accidentally smack my hand into the
knobs when I was working the controls during runups, etc. I got tired of
that and cut them off. I don't push the stick, that much, though. I might
throw up in the airplane. Then, I'd have to clean it up. :-(
>> Do you do a lot of rolling inverted and push to upright??? Man, I hate
>> those negative Gs!!! :-D <<
If my airplane is upside down, I've had one hell of an accident. :-)
>> Linn .... moving the -10 kit from the airport to the workshop. Sounds
>> like I'm working backwards, doesn't it???<<
That's a lot better than I'm doing on my -7A. I need a swift kick in the
butt to get moving on my project, again. I guess I'm starting to get tired
of it. This is my third RV project. If I don't fly Scooter any more than I
have been, I may as well sell the kit and the airplane.
Jim in KY
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: cutting off the sticks |
In a message dated 12/20/2007 6:06:44 PM Central Standard Time,
wdleonard@gmail.com writes:
Full length stick definately got too close to the panel.
>>>
Another consideration is interference with panel controls- my DAR would not
pink me until I cut my sticks another 1/2" since the pilot stick would touch
the throttle when at idle and stick hard right, full fwd., and the right stick
could just graze the mixture control at ICO with stick fully left/fwd. (My
throttle and mixture are in a small subpanel under the standard main panel) Even
if sticks were an inch shorter, they'd probably still be fine in my plane.
No hard aero yet, but rolls are easy with very comfortable stick loading...
See photo at: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=project_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=project)
and _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7435_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7435)
which was taken before shortening.
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: good warning label |
Jim,
To make your own brake hoses is really no big deal. ANY fitting that
says 'AN' is an acceptable fitting. 'AN' is a standardized mil-spec
terminology= ArmyNavy. Any auto shop can make you brake lines. As
mentioned - you must use 45 degree flaring tools -not automotive 37
degree. If it is 'AN' fitting, it is 45 degree. Go to
www.summitracing.com or www.jegs.com and they have pages upon pages of
fittings and different types of hoses. It took me about 2 hours to make
mine. The hardest part is figuring out the length that you need. Steel
braided Stratoflex hose is by far the superior type of hose. You can
find Aeroquip fittings at those two sites as well. I prefer Russell.
Same fittings, less $. Of course you only have to worry about flaring
with hard lines-not hoses. And to answer your next question-yes, they
have fittings that are combinations AN/NPT to fit your parking brake or
reservoir.
Hope that this helped,
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Don,
How about the fittings are they standard AN4 fittings that would be
compatible to our fittings? You have the hoses in your shop, do they
fit okay on the brake fittings? Do you think it would be a good place
to order our brake hoses through and how was their service and turn
around time?
Do you have a link to the shop you are working with?
Jim
RV9 Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ & Marilyn
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Tell them it's for a snow blower.
----- Original Message -----
From: Konrad L. Werner
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Paul,
Being that straight forward would definitely defeat the purpose,
now wouldn't it? It is not what you say, but how you say it: I would try
"I need custom brake lines for an off road-RV" certainly wouldn't even
be considered lying...
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Go to the speedshop and tell them it's for an airplane and look
stupid and ask for advice...they'll push you out the door and lock it
and tell you to never come back...
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: Konrad L. Werner <klwerner@comcast.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:19:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Don,
You should be fine (as long as the hose material is compatible
with the brake fluid). Just don't ever land on a highway, not even in
an emergency, as you would be violating the hose's approval!!!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Hall
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: good warning label.
Your ironic humor for today:
I'm adding the matco parking brake and needed to order some
shorter brake lines. Found some 20" steel braided straight an4 lines
from an online auto/performance website.
They came with the label: "Warning: Competition/Off Road Use
Only. Not approved for highway use."
Hmmm. Well. I do hope to go "off road", so I'm thinking I
should be good.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
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Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: good warning label |
In a message dated 12/20/2007 8:55:53 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
mike109g6@insideconnect.net writes:
As mentioned - you must use 45 degree flaring tools -not automotive 37
degree. If it is 'AN' fitting, it is 45 degree.
===========================================================
Actually he's got it exactly backwards, so please don't believe this
information.
Standard brass fittings at the hardware store and most other similar
commercial fittings are 45 degree and aircraft (AN) is 37 degrees. Do not mix
up
the applications or the tooling. Many of the new racing applications have
adopted the aircraft standard.
-GV
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