Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:42 AM - Re: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (wskimike)
2. 07:20 AM - Re: Brakeline Failure Photos [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Steve Struyk)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: canopy options, was Canopy "Big Cut" Question (glen matejcek)
4. 09:47 AM - Braking question was Brakeline Failure Photos (Ed Anderson)
5. 03:21 PM - spinner screw spacing (tom sargent)
6. 05:15 PM - Re: spinner screw spacing (Ron Lee)
7. 07:24 PM - timing (Wheeler North)
8. 08:12 PM - Re: timing (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
I think you are confusing PKP, which used to be for brake fires on magnesium
wheel assemblies, which was very corrosive, with Co2 which is not anywhere
near as corrosive as PKP. If you use Co2 on those wheels, it would explode.
Now Halon is used.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
> On my hangar, the dry chemical or CO2 was for purposes of reducing
> damage to the structure. The Lessor and State Fire Marshall could care
> less about my aircraft.
>
> Fire Annunciation and then Fire Suppression are two great topics. In
> Oregon, there must be a water based hydrant within 250 feet of the
> structure. Seems the Oregon Department of Aviation had been building
> non compliant structures for years.
>
> It could create a whole new thread.
>
> John Cox
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 4:47 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share
> Available!
>
>
> Ed, those pictures are nasty!!! Glad the fire was contained there!
> I've never seen tubing break like that, but then my 'sample' is
> relatively small. Usually breaks occur radially around the tubing, not
> linearly along the tube. My best guess would be a flaw in the tubing
> .... the jagged edge indicates it was brittle (or so I think). A more
> interesting photo would be after the powder was cleaned up. Don't know
> what dry chemical that is, but dry chemical of a few years ago was
> terribly corrosive to aluminum, so you may want to inspect fairly often
> 'till you are sure there's no problem.
>
> My hangar lease requires a dry chemical extinguisher .... and it's a
> real dilemma for me to fight the fire or let it burn ..... either way,
> down the road the plane would need extensive repairs due to the
> corrosion and may become unairworthy anyway.
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Brakeline Failure Photos [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email |
List Photo Share Available!
Ed,
Perhaps I missed an earlier post on this subject but I would like to know
what caused your brakes to get so hot in the first place. Had you been
practicing short field landings with max braking? Maybe you had a brake
dragging and you were not awear of it. Just wondering. It's hard for me to
imagine brakes getting that hot in "normal" braking conditions.
Steve Struyk
St. Charles, MO
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 6:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Brakeline Failure Photos [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email
List Photo Share Available!
>
> For those interested, there are two photos of my brake line fracture and
> fire at the below Matronics link. One shows the charred tire and wheel
> pant and the other shows the broken brake line - with a chunk of the side
> of the tube clearly blown out.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
> To: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:55 PM
> Subject: RV-List: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share
> Available!
>
>
>> <pictures@matronics.com>
>>
>>
>> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>>
>> Poster: Edward Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>
>> Lists: RV-List
>>
>> Subject: Brake Line Failure
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eanderson@carolina.rr.com.12.23.2007/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> o Main Photo Share Index
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>
>> o Submitting a Photo Share
>>
>> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
>> following information along with your email message and files:
>>
>> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
>> 2) Your Full Name:
>> 3) Your Email Address:
>> 4) One line Subject description:
>> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
>> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>>
>> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>>
>> pictures@matronics.com
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: canopy options, was Canopy "Big Cut" Question |
Hi Doug-
>Hmm.. thus you have more headroom in the airplane. How much did you think
>you added?
As of 2 years ago, Todd's canopies in FL could make you a canopy with more
headroom, thicker material, all manner of tints, and less cost than the OEM
unit. Plus, they're guaranteed. If you break it, the replacement is
(relatively) cheap.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Brakeline Failure Photos |
Hi Steve,
Reasonable questions. At the time, I had over 50 hours on those brake pads
and no indication of dragging.
No, I had started my take off roll and had almost reached lift off when the
engine started to miss. Since I was on a 4000 foot runway, I decided to
abort the take off to check things out before setting off on my 800 mile
return trip to NC. So I aborted and coasted down to the far end which was
on a downhill grade and everything seemed normal as I braked for the turn
around. As I pushed on the right brake peddle to turn I noticed the brake
seemed mushy. On the way back, I gunned the engine to check out the engine
miss and was probably riding the brakes a bit to keep the speed down, when
the right brake peddle goes to the floor board. Things really got exciting
after that point. Loss of steering, airplane on fire and off runway
excursion!!
I did not think at the time I had ridden the brakes that hard and I may or
may not have. But when I did a bit of research, I found the flash point of
the brake fluid was between 215F and 240F - believe me. any braking at all
can get your disc up to that temperature easily. I also posted to the list
the same thing happening on an RV-8A. The low flash point of the brake
fluid is the reason I then switched to the newer brake fluid with a flash
point of nearly 440F. So did my braking contribute to the temps of the
disc - no question it did, was it unusually braking - I didn't think so at
the time or now - but its clear that any disc temp over 240F could have
cooked off the fluid. But, it would have been a moot point, had the brake
line not broke and sprayed fluid on the hot disc.
I did a quick calculation of the kinetic energy dissipation required to
bring my 1700 lb aircraft to a stop from 60 mph. If I did the calculations
correctly it indicated I could get a disc temp max temperature increase of
330F. The temp depends of course, on how hard I braked or how long the slow
down took. So that is probably the maximum increase, but even if it were
1/2 that rise in temp, if starting out with a ambient temp of 80 + 330/2 =
240F which is above the fluid's flash point. So it does not take a lot of
braking to get those disc temps up.
That is also one reason I discarded the old discs and went with ones that
were twice as thick as the standard van discs. Having more disc material to
absorb the same amount of heat will keep the disc temp lower.
YMMV
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brakeline Failure Photos [ Edward Anderson ] : New
Email List Photo Share Available!
>
> Ed,
>
> Perhaps I missed an earlier post on this subject but I would like to know
> what caused your brakes to get so hot in the first place. Had you been
> practicing short field landings with max braking? Maybe you had a brake
> dragging and you were not awear of it. Just wondering. It's hard for me to
> imagine brakes getting that hot in "normal" braking conditions.
>
> Steve Struyk
> St. Charles, MO
> RV-8
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: "RV-List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 6:23 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Brakeline Failure Photos [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email
> List Photo Share Available!
>
>
>>
>> For those interested, there are two photos of my brake line fracture and
>> fire at the below Matronics link. One shows the charred tire and wheel
>> pant and the other shows the broken brake line - with a chunk of the side
>> of the tube clearly blown out.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
>> To: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:55 PM
>> Subject: RV-List: [ Edward Anderson ] : New Email List Photo Share
>> Available!
>>
>>
>>> <pictures@matronics.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>>>
>>> Poster: Edward Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Lists: RV-List
>>>
>>> Subject: Brake Line Failure
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eanderson@carolina.rr.com.12.23.2007/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> o Main Photo Share Index
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>>
>>> o Submitting a Photo Share
>>>
>>> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
>>> following information along with your email message and files:
>>>
>>> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
>>> 2) Your Full Name:
>>> 3) Your Email Address:
>>> 4) One line Subject description:
>>> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
>>> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>>>
>>> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>>>
>>> pictures@matronics.com
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | spinner screw spacing |
My old (1999) Van's manual doesn't specify the spacing for the screws in
the aft spinner bulkhead. Does any one know the nominal value? I'm
guessing it's 2.5 - 3.0 inches.
--
Tom S., RV-6A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: spinner screw spacing |
RV-6A, O-360, FP prop
1) 2 blade Aymar Demuth prop: Average about 2.5 inches but
varied from 2.35 to 2.6 inches
2) 3 blade Catto prop: average 2.4 inches but again some variance
Ron Lee
Message 7
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Hi Linn,
I would partly disagree with you about the timing. The most critical thing
is that both mags are equal, but if they are slightly off of 25 it just
means the engine will be most efficient at a slightly different RPM. Since
we don't know what that was when set at 25 it really doesn't matter.
I've found that setting them at 23 brought chts down by 20 deg and egts up
by about 50-75
But they should be within .5 deg of each other.
There's an SB on 0-360-A1A's installed in Mooney's, I think, which allows
for them to be set all the way back to 20.
W
Message 8
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It is a service instruction, not a bulletin, and it is for 200 hp IO360s
regardless of airframe.
It requires internal modification to the mags, so that starting timing
remains at TDC while cruise timing is 20 degrees. You will cause
problems if you just dial it back to 20 degrees.
The change was to reduce peak cylinder pressures for extreme cold temp
operations to prevent cylinder heads from flying off the engine, dates
back to the late seventies.
Not applicable to the lower compression O-360 engines.
Wheeler North wrote:
>
> Hi Linn,
>
> I would partly disagree with you about the timing. The most critical thing
> is that both mags are equal, but if they are slightly off of 25 it just
> means the engine will be most efficient at a slightly different RPM. Since
> we don't know what that was when set at 25 it really doesn't matter.
>
> I've found that setting them at 23 brought chts down by 20 deg and egts up
> by about 50-75
>
> But they should be within .5 deg of each other.
>
> There's an SB on 0-360-A1A's installed in Mooney's, I think, which allows
> for them to be set all the way back to 20.
>
> W
>
>
>
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