Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: timing (N122RL@aol.com)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: timing (Dale Walter)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: timing (Tim Bryan)
4. 07:44 AM - Re: timing (Tim Bryan)
5. 08:08 AM - Re: timing (Ralph E. Capen)
6. 09:05 AM - Re: timing (Konrad L. Werner)
7. 09:07 AM - TEST (J. R. Dial)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: timing (Ron Lee)
9. 09:18 AM - Timing (John Fasching)
10. 09:18 AM - high heats (linn Walters)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (Greg Williams)
12. 09:24 AM - Re: timing (J. R. Dial)
13. 09:40 AM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (Tim Bryan)
14. 09:42 AM - Re: Timing (Konrad L. Werner)
15. 10:36 AM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (Greg Williams)
16. 10:50 AM - Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar (Don Hall)
17. 11:06 AM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (Tim Bryan)
18. 11:09 AM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (Sam Buchanan)
19. 11:49 AM - Timing (Wheeler North)
20. 12:05 PM - Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing (linn Walters)
21. 12:13 PM - Re: high heats (John Morgensen)
22. 12:21 PM - Re: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar (Brian Meyette)
23. 12:38 PM - Braided steel brake lines (Ralph E. Capen)
24. 01:46 PM - Re: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty)
25. 02:18 PM - Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (Ron Lee)
26. 03:17 PM - Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (glaesers)
27. 03:19 PM - Re: Timing (N122RL@aol.com)
28. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (Konrad L. Werner)
29. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (Ron Lee)
30. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (Scott)
31. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings (Kevin Horton)
32. 07:37 PM - Re: Upgraded Brake Fluid and O-rings (Vanremog@aol.com)
33. 08:15 PM - Re: Aircraft painting, Central Florida (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Try running on the lightspeed only. I have the same setup but with a O320.
The temps on my engine come right down when I run on lightspeed only. Have no
idea why.
Bob
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
IMHO; there must be an interesting mystery going on when 99% of the RVs run
below 380 CHT and a few don't. I don't think it is because 99% have great
baffles. Check all assumptions, verify every detail for timing. Make sure
you have the correct reference points on both engine and flywheel. Verify
accuracy of CHT gauge and probe. A one square inch hole in baffle is not
good, but it will not raise CHT temps by 20 degrees, I have tested that. The
best way to overheat an engine is to increase advance timing too much for a
given MP and rpm. Bob, your results are a strong indication that the mag is
accidentally too advanced, possibly defective. "Still" timing checks are not
proof that the mag is working correct at running speed (if the mag is
defective). The proper power & temperature on the lightspeed only operation
is a strong indication that you don't have a cooling problem, you have a mag
or mag timing problem. Your results also indicate your CHT gauge is OK. IMHO
Don't give up your search.
Best of luck,
Dale
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N122RL@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: RV-List: timing
Try running on the lightspeed only. I have the same setup but with a O320.
The temps on my engine come right down when I run on lightspeed only. Have
no idea why.
Bob
_____
See AOL's top
<http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004> rated
recipes and easy
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003>
ways to stay in shape for winter.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Bobby,
Have any of those things you did made a difference? The baffles made the
biggest difference for me but not enough in my opinion. In summer I am at
over 460 degrees after climb out at 110 mph initially then lowering the nose
to about 130. I don't have to climb to more than 4 or 5,000 to be this hot.
The louvers made the biggest difference in cruise as I was cruising at
nearly 425 degrees and after the louvers it is pretty close to 400.
I haven't given up on finding the reason my engine runs hotter than everyone
else with the exact same thing, but I have run out of ideas. What do you
have your timing set to?
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
Tim, your the first one I've heard of that has the exact same thing as I do.
In cruise on 80-90 degree days I have about 400 CHTs and on climb out I have
to level off about 1500 ft and pull back the throttle when the CHTs get to
about 430 degrees. I've done the same things that you have, checked timing,
checked baffles, put the louvers in the bottom of the cowl. I have a
Superior XPO360 with one mag and one lightspeed.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Tim Bryan wrote:
<n616tb@btsapps.com>
Wow this thread has become very interesting. My timing was actually about
26 degrees on one mag and closer to 24 on the second mag. I have had high
CHT's all along and have done everything I can think of to get my temps down
without full success. I installed louvers in the cowl, sealed around my
baffles with goup, put a door behind my oil cooler and closed off one of my
heater intakes. I still after settling into cruise get about 399-405
degrees for CHT's with oil temps around 185.
Now I have changed my timing to be right together at 25 degrees. I have not
flown yet, but when summer comes around I may very well try adjusting it to
about 23 to see what happens.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: timing
<wnorth@sdccd.edu>
While all of that is true the inherent point was the engine will run just
fine at altered timing, particularly just off a degree or two. And in fact
may run a bit better with respect to chts and or egts depending on how
well
your airplane is cooling. I back mine down to 23 during summer and kick it
up to 25 during winter.
However the mags should fire at as close a time as possible. It is one
reason I'm not in favor of running one mag and one variable ECM base
ignition system. It is probably not too bad when they fire very
differently
as the later spark is wasted, but when they are firing close, heaven only
knows what that does to the flame front, balanced piston loads, and
potential detonation issues.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Ron,
I can't find anything that indicates my compression ratio. I purchased it
from Aerosport Power and did not specify anything but standard so I can only
presume it is the 8.5 : 1 somebody referred to.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
>
>
> Tim, what is your compression ratio? If around 9.5:1 what I have read
> states that timing should be 20 degrees BTDC.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The piston part numbers may be able to help - there should be a list of components
in your documentation.
I got 9.2:1 with mine.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Bryan <n616tb@btsapps.com>
>Sent: Dec 26, 2007 10:33 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: timing
>
>
>Hi Ron,
>
>I can't find anything that indicates my compression ratio. I purchased it
>from Aerosport Power and did not specify anything but standard so I can only
>presume it is the 8.5 : 1 somebody referred to.
>
>Tim
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:43 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
>>
>>
>> Tim, what is your compression ratio? If around 9.5:1 what I have read
>> states that timing should be 20 degrees BTDC.
>>
>> Ron Lee
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Tim,
Then you highly likely have the std. compression ratio for this engine.
You may want to check with Bart to verify it directly from the source.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Bryan
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: timing
Hi Ron,
I can't find anything that indicates my compression ratio. I
purchased it
from Aerosport Power and did not specify anything but standard so I
can only
presume it is the 8.5 : 1 somebody referred to.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
>
>
> Tim, what is your compression ratio? If around 9.5:1 what I have
read
> states that timing should be 20 degrees BTDC.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
??
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Most likely you have 8.5:1
Ron Lee
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb@btsapps.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: timing
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> I can't find anything that indicates my compression ratio. I purchased it
> from Aerosport Power and did not specify anything but standard so I can
> only
> presume it is the 8.5 : 1 somebody referred to.
>
> Tim
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:43 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
>>
>>
>> Tim, what is your compression ratio? If around 9.5:1 what I have read
>> states that timing should be 20 degrees BTDC.
>>
>> Ron Lee
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
FWIW - I have an O-320-160 HP w/ fixed prop and was runniing two
Lightspeed electronic ignition systems. I was fighting high oil temps
and not making progress. Installed larger oil cooler. No help. Put in a
cowl flap to more more air out of the cowl enclosure. No help. Improved
sealing around top of baffles where they met the top cowling. No help.
Did all sorts of other little things. No help.
In desperation I began to re-read Lightspeed instructions. My O-320 is a
160HP so I assumed it "qualified" as high compression as Klaus describes
it in his instructions, thus requiring timing set to 5-degrees BTDC. It
turns out the 8.5:1 is not "high compression" as he defines it, so I set
the timing to zero-degrees, or TDC and the high oil temps went away. I
now see CHT and oil temps in the low part of normal range, and don't
need the cowl flaps. On a hot day in climb I rarely see over 205-F in
the oil temps, and cruise is typically 190-195.
Why the 5-degree diffference in timing would make such a great
difference seems strange, but I won't argue with a good outcome.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The 'timing' thread brought up high temps (CHTs and EGTs) which made me
wonder too ...... I'm convinced that a sealed plenum over the engine,
sealed well around the inlets, would go a long ways to get rid of the
high temps. Sealing to the cowl top with silicone or even the older
reinforced fiberglas strips just seems archaic to me. The differential
pressure from the upper plenum to the lower cowl also makes a difference
and could increase the cooling drag. In the 'timing' thread, someone
also brought up the problem of changing the timing to change the temps.
IMHO, that's just masking the problem, If you're comfortable with that,
why not just remove the CHT and EGT guages????? The timing is specified
based on the cam profile and the intake/exhaust systems ability to
breathe. Shutting off 1/2 of the spark plugs changes the flame front
profile and robs your engine of power and efficiency.
So, my question is why don't more engines have the plenum baffling
configuration???
Linn
do not archive
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
Personally, I haven't found that the stock heat source is anywhere hot
enough to overheat my legs. Fact is, I'd like to get more heat for our RV-7
up here in Washington. No warm/cold mixer box. Just pull knob full on and
leave it. Wear good socks & sweatshirt. Then we fly and have FUN!!
On 12/25/07, Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone come up with a good place to run the duct for the cabin heat? Just
> about anywhere up front will burn my legs, and haven't quite figured a way
> to get the heat throughout the cabin. Was thinking of using the warm/cold
> mixer box that Van's sells, and could then run heat through the vents.
> Thoughts?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-4 N73DD "Sunny"
> Arizona
>
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have the same engine you have with 8.5-1
compression and one Lightspeed and one mag. I had the same problem and
it ended up being a crack in the vacuum line that goes to the Lightspeed
ignition. I have no heating problem even in the plus 100 degree days we
have near Austin, TX.
I have the crank trigger mounted in the
flywheel. I did check the timing on both ignitions before I discovered
the vacuum leak.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad L.
Werner
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
Tim,
Then you highly likely have the std. compression ratio for this engine.
You may want to check with Bart to verify it directly from the source.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Bryan <mailto:n616tb@btsapps.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: timing
Hi Ron,
I can't find anything that indicates my compression ratio. I purchased
it
from Aerosport Power and did not specify anything but standard so I can
only
presume it is the 8.5 : 1 somebody referred to.
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: timing
>
>
> Tim, what is your compression ratio? If around 9.5:1 what I have read
> states that timing should be 20 degrees BTDC.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
> nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual
link Free
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.n
bsp; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
That is surprising. My heater would burn my legs to a frinzy if I pulled it
full on. I use about two clicks on the heat cable to get plenty of heat on
the feet. I have to stuff rags in around the canopy sides to keep the cold
air out to be comfortable however. Your heat must come in somewhere
different than lower half of the firewall.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing
Personally, I haven't found that the stock heat source is anywhere hot
enough to overheat my legs. Fact is, I'd like to get more heat for our RV-7
up here in Washington. No warm/cold mixer box. Just pull knob full on and
leave it. Wear good socks & sweatshirt. Then we fly and have FUN!!
On 12/25/07, Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com> wrote:
Anyone come up with a good place to run the duct for the cabin heat? Just
about anywhere up front will burn my legs, and haven't quite figured a way
to get the heat throughout the cabin. Was thinking of using the warm/cold
mixer box that Van's sells, and could then run heat through the vents.
Thoughts?
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD "Sunny"
Arizona
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John,
Wouldn't a high compression engine be timed to fire later (TDC) then a
standard compression engine (5-BTDC)?
I think you may have had it at the standard compression setting earlier
and now run it at the high compression setting.
Either way, your problems went away by going to 0 degrees/TDC...
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John Fasching
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Timing
FWIW - I have an O-320-160 HP w/ fixed prop and was runniing two
Lightspeed electronic ignition systems. I was fighting high oil temps
and not making progress. Installed larger oil cooler. No help. Put in a
cowl flap to more more air out of the cowl enclosure. No help. Improved
sealing around top of baffles where they met the top cowling. No help.
Did all sorts of other little things. No help.
In desperation I began to re-read Lightspeed instructions. My O-320 is
a 160HP so I assumed it "qualified" as high compression as Klaus
describes it in his instructions, thus requiring timing set to 5-degrees
BTDC. It turns out the 8.5:1 is not "high compression" as he defines it,
so I set the timing to zero-degrees, or TDC and the high oil temps went
away. I now see CHT and oil temps in the low part of normal range, and
don't need the cowl flaps. On a hot day in climb I rarely see over 205-F
in the oil temps, and cruise is typically 190-195.
Why the 5-degree diffference in timing would make such a great
difference seems strange, but I won't argue with a good outcome.
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
I've got cold air coming in from the wing roots from up the control stick
boot and around the edges of the seats. Not objectionable but it is there
just the same. Keeps my hand from getting sweaty on the stick. Just don't
get much heat, temperature is warm (just) and airflow is certainly there,
but not a blast of hot air by any means. Greg
On 12/26/07, Tim Bryan <n616tb@btsapps.com> wrote:
>
> That is surprising. My heater would burn my legs to a frinzy if I pulled
> it full on. I use about two clicks on the heat cable to get plenty of heat
> on the feet. I have to stuff rags in around the canopy sides to keep the
> cold air out to be comfortable however. Your heat must come in somewhere
> different than lower half of the firewall.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Williams
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:21 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing
>
>
> Personally, I haven't found that the stock heat source is anywhere hot
> enough to overheat my legs. Fact is, I'd like to get more heat for our RV-7
> up here in Washington. No warm/cold mixer box. Just pull knob full on and
> leave it. Wear good socks & sweatshirt. Then we fly and have FUN!!
>
> On 12/25/07, *Paul Besing* <pbesing@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone come up with a good place to run the duct for the cabin heat? Just
> about anywhere up front will burn my legs, and haven't quite figured a way
> to get the heat throughout the cabin. Was thinking of using the warm/cold
> mixer box that Van's sells, and could then run heat through the vents.
> Thoughts?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-4 N73DD "Sunny"
> Arizona
>
>
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar |
On Feb 9-10, EAA690 at KLZU [Lawrenceville, Georgia] will be hosting Bob
Nuckoll's Aeroelectric Seminar.
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
We've still got some seats left, so please take a chance to learn from the
guru of flying electrons. If you haven't heard of Bob, please ask around.
I would imagine that most experimentals flying would credit his expertise
either directly or indirectly in influencing the design and construction of
their airplane's electrical system. I feel fortunate to be building at a
time when resources such as Bob are so active and available in the
experimental builder community, and it is a great opportunity to be able to
learn from the live source. The agenda is a mix of book learning and some
hands-on tools and technique training. I've pasted the agenda below, but
please do refer to his website for additional details and faq's.
Course fees cover the seminar, breakfast, lunch, drinks, and snacks. We're
still working the catering fees, but I expect the whole weekend to be in the
$230-250 range. Hope to see you there. If you have any questions, please
email me directly.
Schedule For Saturday
8:00 - 8:30 Registration
8:30 - 11:30 morning session:
- Parts Selection - "What's all this 'aircraft quality' Stuff Anyhow?"
- Failure Mode Effects Analysis - Confidence by Design
- DC Power Fundamentals - Understanding "the Force"
- Batteries
- Engine Driven Power Sources
- Voltage Regulators
- Grounding
- Over Voltage Protection
- Electrical System Instrumentation
11:30 - 12:30 Break for lunch
12:30-5:00 Afternoon Session
- Wire Selection and Installation
- Wire Termination and Connectors
- Circuit Protection
- Switches Relays and Contactors
- Lighting and Lighting Controls
- Antennas and Feedlines (including antenna analyzer demonstration)
- Engine Instrumentation
Saturday Evening
- Depending on location, facilities and local host's planning we may get
together to share an evening meal and swap a few stories . . .
Schedule for Sunday
8:00-12:00 morning session:
- Noise - Antagonist, propagation paths and victims . . . .
- Tools, Wiring Techniques and Parts Selection Philosophy
- Hands-on demonstrations of useful crimp tools and soldering techniques.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:17 AM
Subject: Lawrenceville Seminar
At 08:30 AM 11/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Including myself, I have a total of 11 commitments thus far. We would
>like to go ahead and book you for Jan 26, 27. I still need to clear
>the actual site, but I'm targeting EAA690's chapter hangar at KLZU in
>Lawrenceville, GA.
>
>Can we get this penciled on your calendar at this time? I'll reply
>back quickly with a confirmation on the site.
Don, I've posted a sign-up sheet for the Feb 9/10
seminar in EAA chapter 690's hangar at:
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
Bob . . .
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
Hi Greg,
I failed to put the aileron boots in before I connected everything together
so I get some cold air here also. When it is cold, we fly with a towel
around the bottom portion of the sticks to block it out. I purchased the
boots from Abbey at Flight Line Interiors, and one day I will get them
installed.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing
I've got cold air coming in from the wing roots from up the control stick
boot and around the edges of the seats. Not objectionable but it is there
just the same. Keeps my hand from getting sweaty on the stick. Just don't
get much heat, temperature is warm (just) and airflow is certainly there,
but not a blast of hot air by any means. Greg
On 12/26/07, Tim Bryan <n616tb@btsapps.com> wrote:
That is surprising. My heater would burn my legs to a frinzy if I pulled it
full on. I use about two clicks on the heat cable to get plenty of heat on
the feet. I have to stuff rags in around the canopy sides to keep the cold
air out to be comfortable however. Your heat must come in somewhere
different than lower half of the firewall.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing
Personally, I haven't found that the stock heat source is anywhere hot
enough to overheat my legs. Fact is, I'd like to get more heat for our RV-7
up here in Washington. No warm/cold mixer box. Just pull knob full on and
leave it. Wear good socks & sweatshirt. Then we fly and have FUN!!
On 12/25/07, Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com> wrote:
Anyone come up with a good place to run the duct for the cabin heat? Just
about anywhere up front will burn my legs, and haven't quite figured a way
to get the heat throughout the cabin. Was thinking of using the warm/cold
mixer box that Van's sells, and could then run heat through the vents.
Thoughts?
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD "Sunny"
Arizona
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
Greg Williams wrote:
> I've got cold air coming in from the wing roots from up the control stick
> boot and around the edges of the seats. Not objectionable but it is there
> just the same. Keeps my hand from getting sweaty on the stick. Just don't
> get much heat, temperature is warm (just) and airflow is certainly there,
> but not a blast of hot air by any means. Greg
Very easy to reduce the cold air from the wing roots, either with a
commercially-made set of aileron pushrod boots or with the home-made
variety:
http://thervjournal.com/cold.html#boots
Sam Buchanan
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
There are a few engines that stagger timing slightly but the presumption is
that the manufacturer has decided that it improves the flame propagation and
has demonstrated that is does nothing harmful. If I remember correctly these
are mostly low compression engines.
I would be cautious going much below 22-23 degrees without some form of
"every" cylinder cht/egt monitoring.
By firing things a tad later one moves the flame process more towards the
exhaust cycle which means more heat goes that way and less goes into the
heads. One would not think it is that much but on a heat critical engine it
can be. Many of the 0-360 RVs do not possess the CHT cooling exchange to
climb out indefinitely. There was a line of Mercedes engines years ago that
would over-heat in 15 minutes irrespective of operating conditions if the
timing was not within a 3 deg range across its entire timing curve. I once
overhauled one of those engines twice learning this. The fix was to clean up
the gummed up centrifugal timing advance weights and get the timing dead on.
One critically important thing to do is make sure the flashing from casting
in the fin holes between the spark plugs is completely cleared out. Doing
this gave me 20 degs on the two cylinders which were fairly bad and 10 on
the one that was kinda bad.
All the opening and exit tweeks I tried did nada and the one thing I've
wanted to try but am not up to downing the airplane for that long, is to
increase the pressure reservoir size of the upper chamber. I have an
internal baffle roof which I think I can greatly improve upon but, that is a
lot of work that is a 50/50 shot at doing anything useful.
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing |
Not sure if this'll help, but here it is FWIW. My listle 2-place
Grumman has 2" scat tubing from the ramp just behind the right cowl air
inlet. This feeds the heat muff, which then feeds the heat control
flapper on the firewall (as I recall). The factory covered up 1/2 of
the opening in the ramp to decrease the amount of air available for heat.
However, on my Traumahawk, I had to remove the scat tubing from the muff
to the firewall valve because it wouldn't seal and really hot air would
overheat my right foot. Instead of really fixing the problem, I covered
it up (which I chastise others for) because the valve isn't in a good
spot to work on it.
So, I see two remedies here. Put a 'Y' in the heat scat and an
adjustable 'gate' to control the amount of OUTSIDE air that mixes with
the hot air from the muff and adjust it over a few test flights to get
the right mix ...... or take the air from OUTSIDE to feed the muff
(instead of from inside the lower cowl .... as mentioned below.
Just thinking out loud ..... I'm making a lot of assumptions since I'm
nowhere near even thinking about heat!!!
Linn
do not archive.
Tim Bryan wrote:
> That is surprising. My heater would burn my legs to a frinzy if I
> pulled it full on. I use about two clicks on the heat cable to get
> plenty of heat on the feet. I have to stuff rags in around the canopy
> sides to keep the cold air out to be comfortable however. Your heat
> must come in somewhere different than lower half of the firewall.
>
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Williams
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:21 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Cabin Heat Routing
>
>
>
> Personally, I haven't found that the stock heat source is anywhere hot
> enough to overheat my legs. Fact is, I'd like to get more heat for
> our RV-7 up here in Washington. No warm/cold mixer box. Just pull
> knob full on and leave it. Wear good socks & sweatshirt. Then we fly
> and have FUN!!
>
> On 12/25/07, Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com
> <mailto:pbesing@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Anyone come up with a good place to run the duct for the cabin heat?
> Just about anywhere up front will burn my legs, and haven't quite
> figured a way to get the heat throughout the cabin. Was thinking of
> using the warm/cold mixer box that Van's sells, and could then run
> heat through the vents. Thoughts?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-4 N73DD "Sunny"
> Arizona
>
>
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>
>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Engine temps are a function of heat generated minus cooling efficiency.
Heat generated is controlled by compression, fuel/air mixture, valve
timing, and ignition timing. Cooling on an air-cooled engine is
controlled by directing the air through the engine's cooling fins.
Correcting timing issues is not masking the problem. It is focusing on
the heat generated side of the equation.
On the cooling side, I agree that a plenum is more elegant than baffling
to the cowling. I suggest that you check out the Sam James cowling
groups for more info. At the Van's Homecoming fly-in at Independence, OR
this year, I think half of the RVs that live on that airport have a
plenum. Somebody there made a mold and then ran off a bunch of copies
for all his neighbors.
I decided to stick with the standard baffling for the following reasons:
1. I have a very pretty metallic blue engine built by Eagle Engines that
I don't want to hide.
2. It is an IO 320 that generates less heat than some of the bigger engines.
3. A plenum captures more heat on top of the engine after shut-down.
This can acerbate vapor lock problems with the fuel injection spider.
John Morgensen
RV-9A fuselage
Grumman AA1B-150 aka "RV Trainer" flying
linn Walters wrote:
>
> The 'timing' thread brought up high temps (CHTs and EGTs) which made
> me wonder too ...... I'm convinced that a sealed plenum over the
> engine, sealed well around the inlets, would go a long ways to get rid
> of the high temps. Sealing to the cowl top with silicone or even the
> older reinforced fiberglas strips just seems archaic to me. The
> differential pressure from the upper plenum to the lower cowl also
> makes a difference and could increase the cooling drag. In the
> 'timing' thread, someone also brought up the problem of changing the
> timing to change the temps. IMHO, that's just masking the problem,
> If you're comfortable with that, why not just remove the CHT and EGT
> guages????? The timing is specified based on the cam profile and the
> intake/exhaust systems ability to breathe. Shutting off 1/2 of the
> spark plugs changes the flame front profile and robs your engine of
> power and efficiency.
>
> So, my question is why don't more engines have the plenum baffling
> configuration???
>
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar |
If you haven't attended this, it is a very good seminar and well worth it,
IMHO
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar
On Feb 9-10, EAA690 at KLZU [Lawrenceville, Georgia] will be hosting Bob
Nuckoll's Aeroelectric Seminar.
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
We've still got some seats left, so please take a chance to learn from the
guru of flying electrons. If you haven't heard of Bob, please ask around.
I would imagine that most experimentals flying would credit his expertise
either directly or indirectly in influencing the design and construction of
their airplane's electrical system. I feel fortunate to be building at a
time when resources such as Bob are so active and available in the
experimental builder community, and it is a great opportunity to be able to
learn from the live source. The agenda is a mix of book learning and some
hands-on tools and technique training. I've pasted the agenda below, but
please do refer to his website for additional details and faq's.
Course fees cover the seminar, breakfast, lunch, drinks, and snacks. We're
still working the catering fees, but I expect the whole weekend to be in the
$230-250 range. Hope to see you there. If you have any questions, please
email me directly.
Schedule For Saturday
8:00 - 8:30 Registration
8:30 - 11:30 morning session:
- Parts Selection - "What's all this 'aircraft quality' Stuff Anyhow?"
- Failure Mode Effects Analysis - Confidence by Design
- DC Power Fundamentals - Understanding "the Force"
- Batteries
- Engine Driven Power Sources
- Voltage Regulators
- Grounding
- Over Voltage Protection
- Electrical System Instrumentation
11:30 - 12:30 Break for lunch
12:30-5:00 Afternoon Session
- Wire Selection and Installation
- Wire Termination and Connectors
- Circuit Protection
- Switches Relays and Contactors
- Lighting and Lighting Controls
- Antennas and Feedlines (including antenna analyzer demonstration)
- Engine Instrumentation
Saturday Evening
- Depending on location, facilities and local host's planning we may get
together to share an evening meal and swap a few stories . . .
Schedule for Sunday
8:00-12:00 morning session:
- Noise - Antagonist, propagation paths and victims . . . .
- Tools, Wiring Techniques and Parts Selection Philosophy
- Hands-on demonstrations of useful crimp tools and soldering techniques.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:17 AM
Subject: Lawrenceville Seminar
At 08:30 AM 11/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Including myself, I have a total of 11 commitments thus far. We would
>like to go ahead and book you for Jan 26, 27. I still need to clear
>the actual site, but I'm targeting EAA690's chapter hangar at KLZU in
>Lawrenceville, GA.
>
>Can we get this penciled on your calendar at this time? I'll reply
>back quickly with a confirmation on the site.
Don, I've posted a sign-up sheet for the Feb 9/10
seminar in EAA chapter 690's hangar at:
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
Bob . . .
8:04 PM
8:04 PM
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Braided steel brake lines |
After hearing of others that have run these down the gear leg successfully and
hearing of some brake line tragedies, I had a set made up for my 6A.
I got them - they look great....I put them on and I'm thinking they're too short.....There's
a nice gentle radius where the lower intersection fairing would
cover (kinda ahy I think they're too short).
Anyone have pictures of theirs - and/or the lengths of the ones that you had made
up?
Thanks,
Ralph
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar |
Brian, Thanks for the feed back on the Seminar, I'm attending the class at
Tea, SD on Jan 12 & 13, we need some more people for this class. Just click
on the link below, thanks.
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Tea.html
Please register as soon as possible.
Jim
RV9a builder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar
>
> If you haven't attended this, it is a very good seminar and well worth it,
> IMHO
> Brian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:38 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Lawrenceville Aeroelectric Seminar
>
>
> On Feb 9-10, EAA690 at KLZU [Lawrenceville, Georgia] will be hosting Bob
> Nuckoll's Aeroelectric Seminar.
> http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
>
> We've still got some seats left, so please take a chance to learn from the
> guru of flying electrons. If you haven't heard of Bob, please ask around.
> I would imagine that most experimentals flying would credit his expertise
> either directly or indirectly in influencing the design and construction
> of
> their airplane's electrical system. I feel fortunate to be building at a
> time when resources such as Bob are so active and available in the
> experimental builder community, and it is a great opportunity to be able
> to
> learn from the live source. The agenda is a mix of book learning and some
> hands-on tools and technique training. I've pasted the agenda below, but
> please do refer to his website for additional details and faq's.
>
> Course fees cover the seminar, breakfast, lunch, drinks, and snacks.
> We're
> still working the catering fees, but I expect the whole weekend to be in
> the
> $230-250 range. Hope to see you there. If you have any questions, please
> email me directly.
>
> Schedule For Saturday
> 8:00 - 8:30 Registration
> 8:30 - 11:30 morning session:
> - Parts Selection - "What's all this 'aircraft quality' Stuff Anyhow?"
> - Failure Mode Effects Analysis - Confidence by Design
> - DC Power Fundamentals - Understanding "the Force"
> - Batteries
> - Engine Driven Power Sources
> - Voltage Regulators
> - Grounding
> - Over Voltage Protection
> - Electrical System Instrumentation
>
> 11:30 - 12:30 Break for lunch
> 12:30-5:00 Afternoon Session
> - Wire Selection and Installation
> - Wire Termination and Connectors
> - Circuit Protection
> - Switches Relays and Contactors
> - Lighting and Lighting Controls
> - Antennas and Feedlines (including antenna analyzer demonstration)
> - Engine Instrumentation
>
> Saturday Evening
> - Depending on location, facilities and local host's planning we may get
> together to share an evening meal and swap a few stories . . .
>
> Schedule for Sunday
> 8:00-12:00 morning session:
> - Noise - Antagonist, propagation paths and victims . . . .
> - Tools, Wiring Techniques and Parts Selection Philosophy
> - Hands-on demonstrations of useful crimp tools and soldering techniques.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> ******************************************
> Don Hall
> N517DG (registered)
> rv7 finishing
> ******************************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:17 AM
> To: Don Hall
> Subject: Lawrenceville Seminar
>
> At 08:30 AM 11/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>>Including myself, I have a total of 11 commitments thus far. We would
>>like to go ahead and book you for Jan 26, 27. I still need to clear
>>the actual site, but I'm targeting EAA690's chapter hangar at KLZU in
>>Lawrenceville, GA.
>>
>>Can we get this penciled on your calendar at this time? I'll reply
>>back quickly with a confirmation on the site.
>
>
> Don, I've posted a sign-up sheet for the Feb 9/10
> seminar in EAA chapter 690's hangar at:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> 8:04 PM
>
>
> 8:04 PM
>
>
> --
> 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
I plan on changing out to the higher temp synthetic transmission fluid
discussed here (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF) and in addition will change
over to the Viton O-rings
The following website has the o-ring listed:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Maintenance/maintenance.html
"Standard MS replacement for the caliper o-rings is MS28775-218.
The Viton O-ring upgrade is 2-218V-75 "
I can't state which brake assembly this is for other than it may be the
typical Vans brake.
What other O-rings might be needed for the master cylinders (?) is
unknown.
Ron Lee
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
I'm using DOT 4 brake fluid - which is glycol based and therefore does not
burn. On Doug Reeve's VAF site, do a search for DOT 4 Brake Fluid. I
bought a seal kit from an RV'er named Charlie Kuss which had all the EPDM
O-rings for the brake caliper, brake cylinders, and even the Matco parking
brake if you need it. I don't know if he still has kits, but he would have
all the sizes needed.
After seeing the brake line failure fire that Ed Anderson posted recently,
I'm glad I went with the DOT 4 fluid.
Dennis Glaeser
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ron Lee (ronlee@pcisys.net)
I plan on changing out to the higher temp synthetic transmission fluid
discussed here (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF) and in addition will change
over to the Viton O-rings
The following website has the o-ring listed:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Maintenance/maintenance.html
"Standard MS replacement for the caliper o-rings is MS28775-218.
The Viton O-ring upgrade is 2-218V-75 "
I can't state which brake assembly this is for other than it may be the
typical Vans brake.
What other O-rings might be needed for the master cylinders (?) is
unknown.
Ron Lee
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Iam confused, I can't find anything in the install manual about setting the
timing to 2 degrees btdc, it said to set it to 21 btdc. wrong?
Bob Lau
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
Hi Dennis,
Doesn't glycol absorb moisture from the atmosphere in high humidity
areas?
Wouldn't it have been easier to get the newer/higher flashpoint fluid
instead of changing all these seals?
Give my greetings to the Kids..., and I guess now we won't see you here
in ABQ again.
Konrad
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: glaesers
To: RV-List@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings
I'm using DOT 4 brake fluid - which is glycol based and therefore does
not
burn. On Doug Reeve's VAF site, do a search for DOT 4 Brake Fluid. I
bought a seal kit from an RV'er named Charlie Kuss which had all the
EPDM
O-rings for the brake caliper, brake cylinders, and even the Matco
parking
brake if you need it. I don't know if he still has kits, but he would
have
all the sizes needed.
After seeing the brake line failure fire that Ed Anderson posted
recently,
I'm glad I went with the DOT 4 fluid.
Dennis Glaeser
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: Ron Lee (ronlee@pcisys.net)
Date: Wed Dec 26 - 2:18 PM
I plan on changing out to the higher temp synthetic transmission fluid
discussed here (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF) and in addition will change
over to the Viton O-rings
The following website has the o-ring listed:
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Maintenance/maintenance.html
"Standard MS replacement for the caliper o-rings is MS28775-218.
The Viton O-ring upgrade is 2-218V-75 "
I can't state which brake assembly this is for other than it may be
the
typical Vans brake.
What other O-rings might be needed for the master cylinders (?) is
unknown.
Ron Lee
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
> After seeing the brake line failure fire that Ed Anderson posted recently,
> I'm glad I went with the DOT 4 fluid.
That thread on DOT fluid just made this more confusing. It seems that
DOT Brake fluid is not good in aircraft brake systems.
Ron Lee
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
I was always under the impression that 5606 hydraulic was the way to
go. I thought DOT was corrosive to aluminum??? Might be FOS (full of
sh**) on this one, but I do seem to recall 5606 was the way to go
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Ron Lee wrote:
>
>> After seeing the brake line failure fire that Ed Anderson posted
>> recently,
>> I'm glad I went with the DOT 4 fluid.
>
>
> That thread on DOT fluid just made this more confusing. It seems that
> DOT Brake fluid is not good in aircraft brake systems.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings |
The viton seals apparently will withstand much higher temperatures
than the original seals, so they might be a good thing even if the
brake fluid you use didn't need them. If you ever get the brakes
really hot, and the O-ring in the caliper let go, you would lose the
brake on that side. That might lead to an accident even if the brake
fluid didn't catch on fire.
Kevin Horton
On 26-Dec-07, at 20:31 , Konrad L. Werner wrote:
> Hi Dennis,
> Doesn't glycol absorb moisture from the atmosphere in high humidity
> areas?
> Wouldn't it have been easier to get the newer/higher flashpoint
> fluid instead of changing all these seals?
> Give my greetings to the Kids..., and I guess now we won't see you
> here in ABQ again.
> Konrad
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: glaesers
> To: RV-List@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:11 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Synthetic brake fluid and Viton O-rings
>
>
> I'm using DOT 4 brake fluid - which is glycol based and therefore
> does not
> burn. On Doug Reeve's VAF site, do a search for DOT 4 Brake Fluid. I
> bought a seal kit from an RV'er named Charlie Kuss which had all the
> EPDM
> O-rings for the brake caliper, brake cylinders, and even the Matco
> parking
> brake if you need it. I don't know if he still has kits, but he
> would have
> all the sizes needed.
>
> After seeing the brake line failure fire that Ed Anderson posted
> recently,
> I'm glad I went with the DOT 4 fluid.
>
> Dennis Glaeser
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Ron Lee (ronlee@pcisys.net)
> Date: Wed Dec 26 - 2:18 PM
>
> I plan on changing out to the higher temp synthetic transmission fluid
> discussed here (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF) and in addition will change
> over to the Viton O-rings
>
> The following website has the o-ring listed:
>
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Maintenance/maintenance.html
>
> "Standard MS replacement for the caliper o-rings is MS28775-218.
> The Viton O-ring upgrade is 2-218V-75 "
>
> I can't state which brake assembly this is for other than it may be
> the
> typical Vans brake.
>
> What other O-rings might be needed for the master cylinders (?) is
> unknown.
>
> Ron
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Upgraded Brake Fluid and O-rings |
It's funny how various issues get interwoven even if they're only slightly
related (in this case to aircraft brakes), but just to clarify the issues here
with regard to both the MIL-PRF-83282 high temp aircraft hydraulic (brake)
fluid and the Viton O-rings.
Naturally the O-rings in any hydraulic system (in a brake system that means
all of them from the master cylinders down to the calipers) must be
"compatible" with the fluid wetting them. Let's take the MIL-H-5606 fluid. We
all
know that it is "compatible", thru testing and in use for decades with Nitrile
(Buna-n) synthetic rubber O-rings.
Nitrile to its credit (it helped win a war after all) has good low
temperature properties, but unfortunately has poor high temperature properties
(at
least when compared to newer fluorocarbon materials). Viton is such a new
material. It sacrifices a wee bit of low temperature elasticity (remember the
Columbia booster) for a substantial increase in high temperature margin. This
is good for things that get hot (brake calipers) and not really necessary for
other applications, so long as the "compatibility" thing is still there.
Viton 75 durometer is compatible with both MIL-H-5606 and MIL-PRF-83282 fluids,
as well as others (see Ace Seal website or other similar compatibility charts
for these elastomers). Harder (greater durometer) Vitons have even less
rebound at low temperatures.
Now I know that some in the Long Ez crowd and the Rocket lists say that you
can use various other fluids, from DOT4/5 to Hershey's chocolate syrup, but
please be prudent. It helps to know what you are doing here, because your
safety is a stake. Perhaps someone's favorite fluid may in fact be a
repackaging of the real stuff, but why take the chance?
The chosen fluid needs to do the job over the entire expected temperature
range and be compatible with all of your O-rings. The MIL-PRF-83282 fluid was
developed to replace MIL-H-5606 in all applications and all of the
compatibility tests have been done five decades ago (at taxpayer expense) when
the
military solved this problem for their aircraft.
The O-rings merely need to be compatible with the fluid and not take a
compression set at the temperature that they will experience in service. Heat
soaked calipers after a down wind landing on a short strip can do a number on
Nitrile. It just takes one time for them to take a compression set at
excessive temperature and they are compromised (out-of-round) forevermore.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | RE: Aircraft painting, Central Florida |
If you are in Central Florida, try Florida Aircraft Painting run by Gerry
Butterworth 863-534-3626 at Bartow Airport. RV's start around $5,500 and go up
depending on how fancy you want. I paid a little more (two years ago) for a
two color on white metallic teal with painted 12 inch letters. Came out nice
and helped me win Reserve Grand Champion Sun n' Fun 2006, Outstanding
Airplane - Homebuilt Sun n' Fun 2007 and Third Place - Metal Copperstate 2007.
(a
couple of pictures at www.petesrvaviationproducts.com)
Pete in Clearwater
RV-6 all electric panel
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|