---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/31/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:17 AM - Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II () 2. 08:14 AM - Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II (scott bilinski) 3. 08:56 AM - Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II (John Jessen) 4. 09:31 AM - Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II...7 width (Frank Stringham) 5. 10:20 AM - Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II (Charlie England) 6. 02:42 PM - Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB (Shemp) 7. 03:17 PM - Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB (Ralph Hoover) 8. 03:53 PM - Re: Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB (Shemp) 9. 03:57 PM - Re: Anyone know MULLANEY JOHN , N808TB (Shemp) 10. 04:03 PM - Need some reference material help (McFarland, Randy) 11. 04:27 PM - Re: Need some reference material help (Bobby Hester) 12. 04:34 PM - Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB (Ralph Hoover) 13. 04:53 PM - Re: Need some reference material help (Richard Dudley) 14. 06:00 PM - Re: Need some reference material help (Dale Walter) 15. 06:23 PM - Re: Need some reference material help (Kyle Boatright) 16. 06:37 PM - RV-7 VS Mustang II etc (EMAproducts@aol.com) 17. 08:24 PM - Re: RV-9A CG change (Jim Ellis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:27 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-7 vs Mustang II Not to be a bummer but very sadly the Mustang II builder pilot Van flew against was lost at a later date with his passenger I recall. The facts I don't recall but something about his seat belt coming undone doing acro comes to mind. Not trying to be a bummer first at the year but PLEASE be careful in 2008; lets make this the safest year ever. All the best Happy New Years, George --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:31 AM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II I looked in Kit Planes Kits issue, they list the cocpit width at 40 inches......that is VERY narrow! If you stagger the seat backs maybe not so bad? Scott Bilinski RV-8a ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Kraut Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:08:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II I forwarded to the Mustang group to get an opinion. The question on the Mustang group comes up often and the general consenses is usually that the Mustang has better performance with the same engine, but is more work to build. One Mustangers opinion follows. -----Original Message----- From: mustangaero@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mustangaero@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kirk Harrell Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: M.Aero: FW: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II First of all, the "Checkpoint Charley" article was a comparison of a new, factory prepped, kit bird and a more used scratch built MII. There was no evaluation between relative aerodynamic cleanup or other variables that would add value to the comparison. My Mustang II is scratch built, and the leading edges of the wing are not properly formed, and it stalls hot, about 70 mph. The stall is not scary, it is just a stall that feels like the stall in a Cherokee 140. Yes, I land it faster,... so? Thousands upon thousands of people land on runways all over the world at much faster speeds every day, and never give it a thought. Get over the fact that your RV can land slower. The MII is great in a crosswind and I would rather have that capability than be able to land 10 - 15 mph slower. I raced the first leg of the 2002 Air Venture Cup (engine problems resulted in a DNF for the second leg). There were three RV-8's, one RV-6, one RV-6A and an RV-4 in my class, Formula FX which is fixed gear up to 360 cu. in. engines. Mine, a stock IO360-B1E 180 hp, with Hartzell prop. I finished the first leg fifth, behind two Glasair I's with same engine as mine, a turbocharged Glasair II with same engine as mine, and was just barely nipped by a Longeze for fourth... No RV's in front of me. I think that is more conclusive than the "Checkpoint Charlie" article. The RV is a fine plane, I've flown the 4, 6A, and 8. compared to my MII I think they are somewhat lighter on the ailerons, but they don't fly that much different (except for going fighteningly slow in the pattern! :-) ). The Mustang II is a fine bird as well, and does not deserve the reputation the RV crowd is trying to give it. Many Mustang builders have flown their birds for 20+ years, and put thousands of hours on them. They will tell you they love it more every time they fly it. I've only flown mine since 1998, and I love flying it, and love the way it flies. I've flown a lot of mile cross country in formation with RV's. It's a lot of fun, especially when we compare fuel tickets when we stop for gas. Kirk Harrell MII N22YR Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II From: John Jessen The Mustang II web site lists it as 39", same as a Cherokee, I believe. What is the honest width of a -7? John Jessen 40328 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scott bilinski Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II I looked in Kit Planes Kits issue, they list the cocpit width at 40 inches......that is VERY narrow! If you stagger the seat backs maybe not so bad? Scott Bilinski RV-8a ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Kraut Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:08:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II I forwarded to the Mustang group to get an opinion. The question on the Mustang group comes up often and the general consenses is usually that the Mustang has better performance with the same engine, but is more work to build. One Mustangers opinion follows. -----Original Message----- From: mustangaero@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mustangaero@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kirk Harrell Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: M.Aero: FW: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II First of all, the "Checkpoint Charley" article was a comparison of a new, factory prepped, kit bird and a more used scratch built MII. There was no evaluation between relative aerodynamic cleanup or other variables that would add value to the comparison. My Mustang II is scratch built, and the leading edges of the wing are not properly formed, and it stalls hot, about 70 mph. The stall is not scary, it is just a stall that feels like the stall in a Cherokee 140. Yes, I land it faster,... so? Thousands upon thousands of people land on runways all over the world at much faster speeds every day, and never give it a thought. Get over the fact that your RV can land slower. The MII is great in a crosswind and I would rather have that capability than be able to land 10 - 15 mph slower. I raced the first leg of the 2002 Air Venture Cup (engine problems resulted in a DNF for the second leg). There were three RV-8's, one RV-6, one RV-6A and an RV-4 in my class, Formula FX which is fixed gear up to 360 cu. in. engines. Mine, a stock IO360-B1E 180 hp, with Hartzell prop. I finished the first leg fifth, behind two Glasair I's with same engine as mine, a turbocharged Glasair II with same engine as mine, and was just barely nipped by a Longeze for fourth... No RV's in front of me. I think that is more conclusive than the "Checkpoint Charlie" article. The RV is a fine plane, I've flown the 4, 6A, and 8. compared to my MII I think they are somewhat lighter on the ailerons, but they don't fly that much different (except for going fighteningly slow in the pattern! :-) ). The Mustang II is a fine bird as well, and does not deserve the reputation the RV crowd is trying to give it. Many Mustang builders have flown their birds for 20+ years, and put thousands of hours on them. They will tell you they love it more every time they fly it. I've only flown mine since 1998, and I love flying it, and love the way it flies. I've flown a lot of mile cross country in formation with RV's. It's a lot of fun, especially when we compare fuel tickets when we stop for gas. Kirk Harrell MII N22YR Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:09 AM PST US From: Frank Stringham Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II...7 width went and measured my RV7A and it was 40 inches at the shoulder position. Frank @ SGU RV7A > To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II> Date : Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:53:29 -0800> From: n212pj@gmail.com> > --> RV-List me ssage posted by: John Jessen > > The Mustang II web site lists it as 39", same as a Cherokee, I believe.> What is the honest width o f a -7? > > John Jessen> 40328 > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner- rv-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] O n Behalf Of scott bilinski> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:13 AM> To: rv -list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II> > --> RV-Lis t message posted by: scott bilinski > > I looked in Kit Planes Kits issue, they list the cocpit width at 40> inches......that is V ERY narrow! If you stagger the seat backs maybe not so> bad?> > Scott Bilin ski> RV-8a> > > > ----- Original Message ----> From: Brian Kraut > To: rv-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:08:25 PM> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II> > --> RV-List messag e posted by: "Brian Kraut" > > I forwarded to the M ustang group to get an opinion. The question on the> Mustang group comes up often and the general consenses is usually that the> Mustang has better pe rformance with the same engine, but is more work to> build. One Mustangers opinion follows.> > -----Original Message-----> From: mustangaero@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:mustangaero@yahoogroups.com]On> Behalf Of Kirk Harrell> Sent : Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:58 PM> To: mustangaero@yahoogroups.com> Subj ect: Re: M.Aero: FW: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II> > First of all, the "Chec kpoint Charley" article was a comparison of a new,> factory prepped, kit bi rd and a more used scratch built MII. There was no> evaluation between rela tive aerodynamic cleanup or other variables that> would add value to the co mparison.> > My Mustang II is scratch built, and the leading edges of the w ing are not> properly formed, and it stalls hot, about 70 mph. The stall is not scary, it> is just a stall that feels like the stall in a Cherokee 140 .> Yes, I land it faster,... so? Thousands upon thousands of people land on > runways all over the world at much faster speeds every day, and never giv e> it a thought. Get over the fact that your RV can land slower. The MII is > great in a crosswind and I would rather have that capability than be able to> land 10 -> 15 mph slower.> > I raced the first leg of the 2002 Air Ven ture Cup (engine problems resulted> in a DNF for the second leg). There wer e three RV-8's, one RV-6, one RV-6A> and an RV-4 in my class, Formula FX wh ich is fixed gear up to 360 cu. in.> engines. Mine, a stock IO360-B1E 180 h p, with Hartzell prop.> > I finished the first leg fifth, behind two Glasai r I's with same engine as> mine, a turbocharged Glasair II with same engine as mine, and was just> barely nipped by a Longeze for fourth... No RV's in front of me. I think> that is more conclusive than the "Checkpoint Charlie " article.> > The RV is a fine plane, I've flown the 4, 6A, and 8.> compare d to my MII I think they are somewhat lighter on the ailerons, but> they do n't fly that much different (except for going fighteningly slow in> the pat tern! :-) ).> > The Mustang II is a fine bird as well, and does not deserve the reputation> the RV crowd is trying to give it. Many Mustang builders h ave flown their> birds for> 20+ years, and put thousands of hours on them. They> will tell you they love it more every time they fly it. I've only flo wn mine> since 1998, and I love flying it, and love the way it flies.> > I' ve flown a lot of mile cross country in formation with RV's. It's a lot of> fun, especially when we compare fuel tickets when we stop for gas.> > Kirk Harrell> MII N22YR> > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and> know-it- all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i -======================== ===========> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:45 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 vs Mustang II John Jessen wrote: > > The Mustang II web site lists it as 39", same as a Cherokee, I believe. > What is the honest width of a -7? > > John Jessen > 40328 39", plus some small change. Charlie ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:12 PM PST US From: Shemp Subject: RV-List: Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB Im still looking for a paricular paint color. Does anyone know him? Shemp n915jd Gordon or Marge wrote: > Several years ago Van wrote about a flight he made in his RV-6 against > a Mustang II flown by a gent who had shot off his mouth about the > virtues of thin wings and the lack of virtue of thick wings. I seem > to recall that there was a side by side speed comparison but of that > I'm not certain. I have looked back through my RVators to mid 1994 > and not found it so far. Does anyone know where and when that was > published? Are there any data comparing the RV-7 with the Mustang > II? The reason for the questions is a friend is planning to build one > or the other starting after SnF and quite naturally, I am trying to > convince him to build the > RV. He has fallen prey to the "thin wing" idea and since Mustang > aviation is slightly more than a hour's drive from here he is leaning > that way. Help, please in trying to prevent him from making a > dreadful mistake. > > Gordon Comfort > N363GC > > I'm actually mounting the Precision Eagle System components the -8 > airframe. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:30 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RV-List: Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB Shemp, Try this. http://www.2bumsaircraft.com/ N808TB is Assigned Aircraft Description *Serial Number* 72210 *Type Registration* Individual *Manufacturer Name* RIGAUD NATHAN *Certificate Issue Date* 03/30/2007 *Model* RV-7 *Status* Valid *Type Aircraft* Fixed Wing Single-Engine *Type Engine* Reciprocating *Pending Number Change* None *Dealer* No *Date Change Authorized* None *Mode S Code* 52600500 *MFR Year* 2005 *Fractional Owner* NO ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Registered Owner *Name* MULLANEY JOHN *Street* PO BOX 123 *City* SUNAPEE *State* NEW HAMPSHIRE *Zip Code* 03782-0123 *County* SULLIVAN *Country* UNITED STATES -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:14 PM PST US From: Shemp Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB What is on the website that links to him? Cant find anything. Thanks again Shemp do not archive > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:27 PM PST US From: Shemp Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone know MULLANEY JOHN , N808TB Just saw the reference to Nathan, so now the question is does anyone know John? Shemp wrote: > What is on the website that links to him? Cant find anything. > > Thanks again > Shemp > > do not archive > >> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:58 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Need some reference material help From: "McFarland, Randy" Anyone have the Precision MA4-5 manual in e form? I can't find it on internet. I don't get the 50 rpm drop when going to idle-cutoff, but don't know which way to turn the screw to richen/lean it. Thx Randy ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:49 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: Need some reference material help I don't get it either. I tried adjusting it a while back and never could get it. ---- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my flying RV7A web page: http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm McFarland, Randy wrote: > > Anyone have the Precision MA4-5 manual in e form? I can't find it on > internet. > I don't get the 50 rpm drop when going to idle-cutoff, but don't know > which way to turn the screw to richen/lean it. > Thx > Randy > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:35 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RV-List: Anyone know Rigaud Nathan, N808TB * Nathan Rigaud:** nathanr@2bumsaircraft.com* * * * **772-713-1435 **Nathan Rigaud - Co-Founder, Pilot and A&P Mechanic. Nathan currently lives in Sebastian, Florida where we operate 2 Bums Aircraft. Nathan is a ATP rated pilot and has taught aerobatics, tailwheel, primary, and much more. He has his A&P certificate and has restored and built many different types of planes. He also enjoys building and flying large scale models. * -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:34 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: RV-List: Need some reference material help Randy, I have a Precision manual (paper) which I purchased in case I needed it. Since I have not yet needed it, I have not really gotten familiar. I have an O 320-D1A but have not matched up the carburetor with the diagarams in the manual. It covers a number of carburetors including the MA4-5. It seems that the MA4-5 comes in a variety of flavors and additional detail is needed to select the correct one. Many pages address the MA4-5 but with carburetor numbers like: A10-3634 or A10-3391-1. There are a lot of them. With the right number, I could scan the exploded view and parts list and e-mail them to you, if the would be of use to you. Let me know if that would help. Richard Dudley do not archive McFarland, Randy wrote: > >Anyone have the Precision MA4-5 manual in e form? I can't find it on >internet. >I don't get the 50 rpm drop when going to idle-cutoff, but don't know >which way to turn the screw to richen/lean it. >Thx >Randy > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:07 PM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Need some reference material help Randy, Legend says rise, not drop. More than one veteran IA told me not to worry if I did not see that. Some sources stress testing at 650 rpm idle. Dale -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McFarland, Randy Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: RV-List: Need some reference material help Anyone have the Precision MA4-5 manual in e form? I can't find it on internet. I don't get the 50 rpm drop when going to idle-cutoff, but don't know which way to turn the screw to richen/lean it. Thx Randy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:39 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Need some reference material help Just to clarify things... With a carb, you should see a 25-50 rpm increase in rpm before the engine dies as you lean it from idle. To enrich the idle setting, turn the screw out (counterclockwise). To lean the setting, turn it in (clockwise). KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Walter" Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:56 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Need some reference material help > > Randy, > Legend says rise, not drop. More than one veteran IA told me not to worry > if > I did not see that. Some sources stress testing at 650 rpm idle. > Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McFarland, Randy > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 7:04 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Need some reference material help > > > > Anyone have the Precision MA4-5 manual in e form? I can't find it on > internet. > I don't get the 50 rpm drop when going to idle-cutoff, but don't know > which way to turn the screw to richen/lean it. > Thx > Randy > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:10 PM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RV-7 VS Mustang II etc In a message dated 12/31/2007 12:01:11 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rv-list@matronics.com writes: If my memory serves me right was it not a "thin" wing T18 that was the first "homebuilt" that flew around the world ?? Indeed you are right. I was VP of the EAA Chapt 92 during that era, now called the Don Taylor Chapter in SNA California. I was fortunate at Copperstate Fly In 3 years ago to sit with Don & Lois at the Awards banquet. Wonderful fmaily, and still consider Don & Lois good friends, even though hadn't seen them in 25 years until Copperstate. That was Don's 2nd try at the around the world flight, got stopped by WX in Japan a couple years before. He made it round the world in '76 The plane is in the Museum at OSH. The T-18 and the Mustang II are two different designs, both have been around for many years. All three are nice flying planes, Elbie Elbie Mendenhall President EM Aviation, LLC 13411 NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie, WA 98606 360-260-0772 _http://www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com/) (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:03 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-9A CG change From: "Jim Ellis" Dan, I just went through a similar exercise with my 9A. The best place to start is to weigh the plane with full fuel tanks. In my case the nose wheel weight was 361 pounds with full fuel. I have an O-360 and the same prop you are using. If I read it correctly Vans info shows that the maximum nose gear weight is 325 pounds, not 315. I thought about moving the battery from the firewall to behind the baggage compartment but the weight of the battery (16 pounds) and the moment arm (about 160 inches) didn't bring the nose gear weight down to 325 pounds. I had to add 20 pounds of ballast under the empennage fairing (arm 208 inches). This produced a measured nose wheel weight of 322 pounds, again with full fuel. The final empty C.G. with ballast ended up at 79.11 inches. Hope this helps. Jim Ellis RV-9A, flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155293#155293 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.