---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/06/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:02 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Chuck Jensen) 2. 08:01 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Tomasz Korwel) 3. 08:13 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Charlie England) 4. 08:30 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Tim Bryan) 5. 08:34 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Chuck Jensen) 6. 08:50 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Tim Bryan) 7. 09:05 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Tomasz Korwel) 8. 09:17 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Konrad L. Werner) 9. 10:04 AM - Re: hangar lighting (Chuck Jensen) 10. 12:18 PM - Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (tom sargent) 11. 12:30 PM - Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Vanremog@aol.com) 12. 01:13 PM - Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Ted French) 13. 01:51 PM - Re: hangar lighting (Dave Nellis) 14. 02:44 PM - Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Darrell Reiley) 15. 02:52 PM - Re: hangar lighting (Vanremog@aol.com) 16. 02:53 PM - Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Patrick Kelley) 17. 04:21 PM - Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Rick Galati) 18. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (Larry Bowen) 19. 05:18 PM - Re: hangar lighting (Hedrick) 20. 10:28 PM - Re: Re: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer (mike humphrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting From: "Chuck Jensen" Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. In general the cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought there might still be some interest in this. One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay lights for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they appear to be high quality. The only downside is this seller sells them in lots of 10 (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to pick the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got some that are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. Charlie ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:17 AM PST US From: Tomasz Korwel Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting That's probably because you can't see neither air nor electricity. Keep in mind that in Europe we have 200V in every outlet and 400V (3 phases) is nothing unusual in bigger houses. So read some manual, do some risk evaluation and go ahead :-) -- Tomasz Chuck Jensen wrote: > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. In general the cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie England > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM > To: RV list > Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > > There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought > there might still be some interest in this. > > One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay lights > for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they appear to be > high quality. The only downside is this seller sells them in lots of 10 > (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). > > Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to pick > the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got some that > are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:09 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting Don't you think that assessment is a little overstated? 240V will be slightly more efficient due to less resistive loss in the wire, but for lighting, watts is watts and that's how you get billed for electricity. It also raises issues if you will be using existing wiring, if you worry about safety (switching issues) and electrical codes (number of conductors). Since 120V will kill you dead, is 240V really more dangerous? And in order to get hit by 240V, you've got to get across both hot legs in the circuit. It's much more likely that you'll get between one of the legs (120V) & neutral or ground, instead of between the legs. 440V *can* burn (if you get between both hot legs), but very few of us is likely to have available 277V or 440V in a typical hangar. That's why I mentioned being sure to order the right voltage. Bottom line is that any voltage likely to be used for power in a house or building can be dangerous & you should either know what you're doing or get assistance. Thoughts? Charlie Chuck Jensen wrote: > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. In general the > cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage. A 240v > light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v > unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't > try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're > doing. 220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts > explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is way more dangerous > than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > > > -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie > England Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM To: RV list Subject: > RV-List: hangar lighting > > > > > There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought > there might still be some interest in this. > > One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay > lights for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they > appear to be high quality. The only downside is this seller sells > them in lots of 10 (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). > > Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to > pick the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got > some that are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. > > Charlie > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:42 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting Hi Chuck, > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:56 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. In general the cost > to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will > cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out > the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v > ourselves unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can burn and kill, > 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you. High voltage > wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > This isn't quite as intuitive as it seems. For instance an item that runs on 120 vs 220 will show half the amperage but that is because there is more voltage available to it. The mathematical calculation for amperage is based on voltage thus the theory is the consumption is really the same regardless of the voltage you use. The point here is don't be fooled into thinking because the amperage is less that the consumption would be less. It isn't. Now for motor loads there is some small validity to this because of the motor start load and efficiency with a higher voltage. Also wiring for 220 is no different than wiring for 120 in this situation except the breaker you are going to use. Plus more people are killed on 120 volts than anything higher. If you are going to get hooked on a hot wire, 120 will keep you on easier than a higher voltage. Just don't work with the wires hot and it won't be an issue. If you have to work something hot, always hook the ground up first, the neutral up next (if there is one) and the hot wires up last. When hooking the hot wire don't get between it and the load. It only takes One amp to kill you. That is one 100 watt light bulb on 120 volts will kill you if you get between the hot and the load with each hand as the current will run through your heart. Anyway, just thought I would add this so someone doesn't get the wrong impression. Tim ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting From: "Chuck Jensen" Tomasz, electricity does not scare me because I can't see it. I'm only afraid of the shocking results when one does not exercise due caution. To a degree, I should amend the statement about voltage killing--its really amps that does the job. Low voltage at high amps is still a problem. In general, when we see 480v service installation, there's usually a couple hundred amps behind it--therein lies the danger. You are correct that Europe does have higher voltages as a routine matter, but the amps are lower at the same time. In short the threat does not escalate directly proportional to the voltage increase alone. Ex. 120v 10 amps is roughly equivalent to 240v 5 amps. Yes, 120v can kill, but its highly unusual unless you like taking a bath with while blow drying your hair! We used to have an electrician that would check light sockets by wetting his finger and sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No thanks. But I noticed he didn't check 220v circuits that way.... :-) Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tomasz Korwel Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting That's probably because you can't see neither air nor electricity. Keep in mind that in Europe we have 200V in every outlet and 400V (3 phases) is nothing unusual in bigger houses. So read some manual, do some risk evaluation and go ahead :-) -- Tomasz Chuck Jensen wrote: > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. In general the cost to run them is inversely proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will cost twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v unit, putting out the same light, will break the bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie England > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM > To: RV list > Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > > There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought > there might still be some interest in this. > > One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay lights > for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they appear to be > high quality. The only downside is this seller sells them in lots of 10 > (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). > > Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to pick > the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got some that > are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:40 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:31 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > Tomasz, electricity does not scare me because I can't see it. I'm only > afraid of the shocking results when one does not exercise due caution. > > To a degree, I should amend the statement about voltage killing--its > really amps that does the job. Low voltage at high amps is still a > problem. In general, when we see 480v service installation, there's > usually a couple hundred amps behind it--therein lies the danger. You are > correct that Europe does have higher voltages as a routine matter, but the > amps are lower at the same time. In short the threat does not escalate > directly proportional to the voltage increase alone. Ex. 120v 10 amps is > roughly equivalent to 240v 5 amps. > > Yes, 120v can kill, but its highly unusual unless you like taking a bath > with while blow drying your hair! We used to have an electrician that > would check light sockets by wetting his finger and sticking it in the > socket...smiling all the while. No thanks. But I noticed he didn't check > 220v circuits that way.... :-) [Tim] Chuck, I did this all the time as well, but when I touched the two wires I always made contact with the neutral first then the hot. This way the current had a definite path to travel that I controlled and the current only runs a short distance around your hand and definitely not to your feet or other hand (though the body). You don't do this with 220 because you would have to touch a hot wire first as they are both hot. It has nothing to do with 220 being more dangerous. Again, 120 volts will kill you just as easy and more people are killed with 120 volts. Tim ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:22 AM PST US From: Tomasz Korwel Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting > Yes, 120v can kill, but its highly unusual unless you like taking a > bath with while blow drying your hair! We used to have an > electrician that would check light sockets by wetting his finger and > sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No thanks. But I > noticed he didn't check 220v circuits that way.... :-) Explaining this needs far more text that I'm able to clearly produce in English, but two things matter: a) your conductivity b) path of current through your body. If you wet your finger and use it to connect two wires the water on your finger creates conductive layer _on_the_surface_ of your skin so neither the path is long (1/2 inch maybe) nor the current going through your body is big - nothing can happen to you. Different story if you touch only hot wire and the current goes through your entire body to the ground. I remember touching 500V in the laboratory, it was a standard routine our professor used to demonstrate how it works. No effects. _BUT_ we had highly isolating mats on the floor, so there was no current going through us. Long story short: a) never work on live circuit b) if you have to work on live circuit use rated tools and wear your boots! (rubber layer on bottom isolates you from the ground) c) never touch two wires at once and you'll be safe. Higher voltage has one good effect - lower amperage requires thinner, lighter and cheaper wires and it greatly reduces risk of overheating circuit and fire. -- Tomasz ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:33 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting Chuck, "Used" too... ??? Did Sparky fry himself with a smile on his face? Just wondering... Snip.... We *USED* too have an electrician that would check light sockets by wetting his finger and sticking it in the socket...smiling all the while. No thanks. Snip... Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting From: "Chuck Jensen" S29ucmFkLCBub3BlLCBoZSBkaWRuJ3QgZnJ5IGhpbXNlbGYuLi4ud2UganVzdCB1cGdyYWRlZCBv dXIgZWxlY3RyaWNpYW4gdG8gb25lIHRoYXQgY291bGQgYWZmb3JkIGFuIGNpcmN1aXQgdGVzdGVy LiAgOi0pDQogDQpUbyB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgcG9zdGVycywgSSBhY2tub3dsZWRnZSB0aGVp ciBjb3JyZWN0bmVzcyBpbiB0aGUgZ3JvdW5kaW5nLCBjaXJjdWl0IHBhdGggdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUg Ym9keSwgZXQgYWwgYmVpbmcgaW1wb3J0YW50IGRldGVybWluYW50IGZhY3RvcnMgd2hldGhlciB0 aGV5J2xsIHdyaXRlIGFib3V0IHlvdSBvbiBwYWdlIDcgb2YgdGhlIGxvY2FsIG5ld3NwYXBlciB3 aXRoIGEgc21hbGwgcGljdHVyZSBvZiB5b3UgNDAgeWVhcnMgYWdvIChpZiB5b3UgcGF5IGV4dHJh IG1vbmV5KS4NCiANCkVsZWN0cmljaXR5IGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgbGlrZSBUb255IFMuLS1zaG93aW5n IGhpbSB0aGUgcHJvcGVyIHJlc3BlY3QgYW5kIHlvdSdsbCBoYXZlIG5vdCBwcm9ibGVtLg0KDQpD aHVjayBKZW5zZW4gDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1y di1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItcnYtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV1PbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgS29ucmFkIEwuIFdlcm5lcg0KU2VudDogU3VuZGF5 LCBKYW51YXJ5IDA2LCAyMDA4IDEyOjE3IFBNDQpUbzogcnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpT dWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUlYtTGlzdDogaGFuZ2FyIGxpZ2h0aW5nDQoNCg0KDQpDaHVjaywNCiJVc2Vk IiB0b28uLi4gPz8/ICBEaWQgU3Bhcmt5IGZyeSBoaW1zZWxmIHdpdGggYSBzbWlsZSBvbiBoaXMg ZmFjZT8NCkp1c3Qgd29uZGVyaW5nLi4uDQogDQpTbmlwLi4uLg0KV2UgKlVTRUQqIHRvbyBoYXZl IGFuIGVsZWN0cmljaWFuIHRoYXQgd291bGQgY2hlY2sgbGlnaHQgc29ja2V0cyBieSB3ZXR0aW5n IGhpcyBmaW5nZXIgYW5kIHN0aWNraW5nIGl0IGluIHRoZSBzb2NrZXQuLi5zbWlsaW5nIGFsbCB0 aGUgd2hpbGUuIE5vIHRoYW5rcy4gIA0KU25pcC4uLg0KDQpEbyBOb3QgQXJjaGl2ZSANCg0KDQoN Cg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFJWLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KDQpf LT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlDQoN Cl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9u LA0KDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBG QVEsDQoNCl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6DQoNCl8tPSAgIC0tPiAg aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9SVi1MaXN0DQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCl8t PSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQ0KDQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVh dCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyENCg0KXy09ICAgLS0+ ICBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAg IC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91 ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAt TWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQoNCl8tPSAgIC0tPiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:19 PM PST US From: tom sargent Subject: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I just realized that I never did anything to close up the small gap between underside of the horiz. stab. and the fuselage. I just looked thru the drawings (my plans are old - 1999) and empenage fairing section of my manual and couldn't find any indication of a gap-filler for this spot. Am I missing it , or is the builder left to his own resources in this area? I have seen at least one plane that had no gap filler. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:38 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer In a message dated 1/6/2008 12:20:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sarg314@comcast.net writes: I just realized that I never did anything to close up the small gap between underside of the horiz. stab. and the fuselage. I just looked thru the drawings (my plans are old - 1999) and empenage fairing section of my manual and couldn't find any indication of a gap-filler for this spot. Am I missing it , or is the builder left to his own resources in this area? I have seen at least one plane that had no gap filler. ================================================ IIRC there is in fact a drawing that shows this feature. But unless the opening is large enough to ensnare a small dog, I can't imagine it being a problem, other than the small amount of drag it will add. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:47 PM PST US From: "Ted French" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer Tom I'm assuming you have the metal fairing in place. The small gap left over is filled with the same rummer strip thats used for the wing intersection fairings Do Not Archive Ted French C-FXCS RV-10 Flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of tom sargent Sent: January 6, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I just realized that I never did anything to close up the small gap between underside of the horiz. stab. and the fuselage. I just looked thru the drawings (my plans are old - 1999) and empenage fairing section of my manual and couldn't find any indication of a gap-filler for this spot. Am I missing it , or is the builder left to his own resources in this area? I have seen at least one plane that had no gap filler. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:51 PM PST US From: Dave Nellis Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting A little electrical theory here. E = I x R I = E / R R = E / I E=voltage I=amperage R=resistance P = I x E P=watts or power consumed If you double the voltage, you halve the amperage for the same power consumed. The Edison meter on your house or hangar measures P or watts. The only gain by going to a higher voltage is that you can use a smaller guage wire or put more lights on a circuit. There is an efficiency factor involved with alternating current (AC) called power factor but with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual number so using the above formuli works for comparison purposes. Dave Nellis 30 years + electrician 7A wings in mid Febb. --- Chuck Jensen wrote: > > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. > In general the cost to run them is inversely > proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will cost > twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v > unit, putting out the same light, will break the > bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves > unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can > burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts > explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is > way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf > Of Charlie England > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM > To: RV list > Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > > > There was some discussion last month about hangar > lights so I thought > there might still be some interest in this. > > One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal > halide low-bay lights > for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & > they appear to be > high quality. The only downside is this seller sells > them in lots of 10 > (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). > > Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this > seller's store to pick > the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. > He's got some that > are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. > > Charlie > > > > > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:48 PM PST US From: Darrell Reiley Subject: Re: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer My plans state use rubber strip supplied if you wish or optional trim to 1/32 or so gap and go with no strip. Darrell --- Vanremog@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/6/2008 12:20:28 P.M. Pacific > Standard Time, > sarg314@comcast.net writes: > > I just realized that I never did anything to close > up the small gap > between underside of the horiz. stab. and the > fuselage. I just looked > thru the drawings (my plans are old - 1999) and > empenage fairing section > of my manual and couldn't find any indication of a > gap-filler for this > spot. Am I missing it , or is the builder left to > his own resources in > this area? I have seen at least one plane that had > no gap filler. > > > > ================================================ > > IIRC there is in fact a drawing that shows this > feature. But unless the > opening is large enough to ensnare a small dog, I > can't imagine it being a > problem, other than the small amount of drag it > will add. > > N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon > Valley) > > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways > to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:41 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: hangar lighting In a message dated 1/6/2008 1:53:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, truflite@yahoo.com writes: The only gain by going to a higher voltage is that you can use a smaller guage wire or put more lights on a circuit. There is an efficiency factor involved with alternating current (AC) called power factor but with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual number so using the above formuli works for comparison purposes. =================================================== You've got your Ohm's law down well, but it drives me nuts when a 30 year electrician still can't spell gauge and formulae. ;o) Sorry, nothing to do on a stormy day. Do not archive. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:34 PM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I managed to fit mine very close and used some rubber 'U' channel from ACS to fill the gap and prevent rubbing. PatK - RV-6A - Back to wiring; got the intercom and music input going PS - Your plans aren't old ... mine are from 1994. I bet there are older out there. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tom sargent Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I just realized that I never did anything to close up the small gap between underside of the horiz. stab. and the fuselage. I just looked thru the drawings (my plans are old - 1999) and empenage fairing section of my manual and couldn't find any indication of a gap-filler for this spot. Am I missing it , or is the builder left to his own resources in this area? I have seen at least one plane that had no gap filler. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:11 PM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I did not like the plans callout to drill and tap the longeron for screws to attach the .025 fairing so after trimming it to fit I simply bonded the fairing into place using good ol proseal. I did not install the rubber channel either. [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4825/airframedetails00340xp6.jpg[/IMG][/URL] ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:39 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer Nice. You just taped it in place while the proseal dried? -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com On Jan 6, 2008 7:19 PM, Rick Galati wrote: > I did not like the plans callout to drill and tap the longeron for screws > to attach the .025 fairing so after trimming it to fit I simply bonded the > fairing into place using good ol proseal. I did not install the rubber > channel either. > > [URL > http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4825/airframedetails00340xp6.jpg[/IMG][/URL > ] > > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:35 PM PST US From: "Hedrick" Subject: RE: RV-List: hangar lighting Dave Thanks for the lesson. I appreciate it. I am very weak when it comes to this stuff. Keith Do Not Archive ================================== A little electrical theory here. E = I x R I = E / R R = E / I E=voltage I=amperage R=resistance P = I x E P=watts or power consumed If you double the voltage, you halve the amperage for the same power consumed. The Edison meter on your house or hangar measures P or watts. The only gain by going to a higher voltage is that you can use a smaller guage wire or put more lights on a circuit. There is an efficiency factor involved with alternating current (AC) called power factor but with most HID lighting, 86% is the usual number so using the above formuli works for comparison purposes. Dave Nellis 30 years + electrician 7A wings in mid Febb. --- Chuck Jensen wrote: > > > Go with the highest voltage available to the hangar. > In general the cost to run them is inversely > proportional to the voltage. A 240v light will cost > twice as much to run as a 480v unit....and a 120v > unit, putting out the same light, will break the > bank. We shouldn't try wiring 220v/440v ourselves > unless we really know what we're doing. 220v can > burn and kill, 440v can burn, make body parts > explode and then kill you. High voltage wiring is > way more dangerous than flying (which ain't). > > Chuck Jensen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf > Of Charlie England > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM > To: RV list > Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting > > > > > There was some discussion last month about hangar > lights so I thought > there might still be some interest in this. > > One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal > halide low-bay lights > for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & > they appear to be > high quality. The only downside is this seller sells > them in lots of 10 > (4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar). > > Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this > seller's store to pick > the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. > He's got some that > are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt. > > Charlie > > > > > > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > > Forums! > > Admin. > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:00 PM PST US From: "mike humphrey" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer who's ever successfully mounted the rubber channel anyway. I had to hack so much of mine away at the HS that it would not stay on the fairing due to the upward curve of the fairing to transition to the fuse. Gave up on it, and threw it in the "well that didn't work bin". Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Galati To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairing for underside of Horiz. Stabilizer I did not like the plans callout to drill and tap the longeron for screws to attach the .025 fairing so after trimming it to fit I simply bonded the fairing into place using good ol proseal. I did not install the rubber channel either. 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