Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:47 AM - Re: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Scott)
2. 01:23 AM - Re: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Kelly McMullen)
3. 01:23 AM - Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Don Hall)
4. 02:43 AM - Re: good warning label (Don Hall)
5. 04:15 AM - Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Rick Galati)
6. 04:59 AM - Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Dwight Frye)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Chuck Jensen)
8. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week (Bob Collins)
9. 07:23 AM - Falcon Pitot Tube (dfischer@iserv.net)
10. 10:15 AM - 2 or 3 blade props (Rick Barnes)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: Falcon Pitot Tube (Kevin Horton)
12. 10:59 AM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (Ralph E. Capen)
13. 11:25 AM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (Carlos Hernandez)
14. 11:55 AM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (Konrad L. Werner)
15. 12:13 PM - update on hangar lighting (Brian Meyette)
16. 12:13 PM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (John W. Cox)
17. 12:15 PM - Re: hangar lighting (Brian Meyette)
18. 01:36 PM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (dougpflyrv@AOL.COM)
19. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: 2 or 3 blade props ()
20. 05:33 PM - Re: update on hangar lighting (Dale Ensing)
21. 07:19 PM - Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Charlie England)
22. 07:28 PM - Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Rob Prior)
23. 08:10 PM - Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Sam Buchanan)
24. 08:59 PM - Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Larry Bowen)
25. 09:24 PM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
26. 09:50 PM - Re: 2 or 3 blade props (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
What would be illegal about shipping some lead weight? Is it because it
might then be considered a hazardous material??? Maybe they could throw
in some rebar or such...
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)
Rick Galati wrote:
> It has been my experience (twice) that the finish kit is more
> expensive to ship because the materials are declared "plastic" as
> opposed to the other kits in which the materials are declared "bar and
> angle stock." To further complicate it, I called Van's to complain
> about the RV-8 finish kit shipping cost after ABS reweighed the crate
> while it was enroute and determined it was lighter than stated and ABS
> then tagged on an additional $150! I asked Van's why they didn't
> just stick a lead weight in there to meet minimum weight standards
> and was told by deleting the landing gear (I went with Grove) the RV-8
> finish crate becomes significantly lighter and they have had many
> complaints in the past. When I then asked why they didn't just stick
> a lead weight in the crate or declare the contents bar and angle
> stock, they laughed and said they thought about doing that but it is
> illegal.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!"
> RV-8 wiring
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
SeaLand tried that Schipt on me 28 years ago, when I had a house kit
shipped to me in two vans. 35 ft vans were specified by the shipper. Sea
Land didn't have any available at the time, so said they would supply 40
ft vans at same price. So they arrive, and they call us for payment
prior to delivery. Then they call me back, say they determined the
longer vans would be an extra $1500. I told them it was between them and
the shipper, and if they didn't resolve it at no cost to me, I would
refuse the entire shipment and they could do whatever they wanted with
it. (also called shipper and advised them of the bait and switch) Took
2 days for them to cave and deliver. It cost me dearly schedule-wise,
but was worth it. Since the shipper was a good customer, they weren't
about to risk losing their business.
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> This reweighing and freight reclassification is a Freight Industry thing. The
freight haulers have more ways to extract additional fees out of shippers than
an RV builder has rivets. There is a whole art to it. We ship a few common
carrier freight shipments a week and if we don't go to the National Motor Freight
Classification book (about 3" thick) and find an appropriate Classification
and then describe it accurately, the shipping company will assign an arbitrary
Classification of 150 or even 250 to it instead of the 50 or 65 that is appropriate.
The reason this is important is the Classification is used as a multiplier.
After they add up the weight and the distance, then they multiply
it by the Classification, so Class 150 will cost three times as much as Class
50.
>
> And then, we get into weight density.... If the package is too light, they charge
you extra. If the package is too heavy, they charge you extra. We joke
that the freight is free, but they make their money on the penalties, adders
and fuel surcharge. Can you fight it---absolutely, but remember, its only $150
and you only live so long, so you have to pick your fights, and I'm not sure
this is a good one. If you really want to get outraged, look carefully at your
phone bill!!!
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Galati
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 1:48 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
>
>
> It has been my experience (twice) that the finish kit is more expensive to ship
because the materials are declared "plastic" as opposed to the other kits in
which the materials are declared "bar and angle stock." To further complicate
it, I called Van's to complain about the RV-8 finish kit shipping cost after
ABS reweighed the crate while it was enroute and determined it was lighter than
stated and ABS then tagged on an additional $150! I asked Van's why they
didn't just stick a lead weight in there to meet minimum weight standards and
was told by deleting the landing gear (I went with Grove) the RV-8 finish crate
becomes significantly lighter and they have had many complaints in the past.
When I then asked why they didn't just stick a lead weight in the crate or
declare the contents bar and angle stock, they laughed and said they thought about
doing that but it is illegal.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla!"
> RV-8 wiring
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
I had a negative experience with ABF. Terrible service, and they tried to
jack the price on me claiming Van's had misweighed the package. I had to
sick Van's on them to convince them to reweigh the box without a 200 pound
thumb on the scale.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
Thanks Jack, I checked with efreightline and they quoted $515.00. I'm going
with them if Vans hasn't shipped it yet... Waiting for Vans to open....
I owe you a cold one...or two
Bret Smith
RV-9A "Fuselage"
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Hilditch" <wmjack1@t3cs.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
>
> I don't know if it will help, but just for the heck of it, why don't you
> try
> getting a quote from a freight consolidator/forwarder such as
> www.efreightline.com? When I needed to ship engine parts from Little
> Rock, AR
> to Connecticut a few months ago, this company was able to negotiate a much
> better price than I could. When I get ready to order my 9A Finish kit
> later this
> year, that is what I will be doing (again.) Good luck.
>
> Jack Hilditch
> RV-9A Wings done, Emp. Done,
> Fuse past boat stage,
> working on engine & electrics.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:41 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
>
>
> Well, it looks like I win the prize! I just called Ann at Vans since my
> finish kit ships this week. I asked her who she had it scheduled with for
> shipping and the cost and she told me ABF for $787.00!
>
> I asked her to get a quote from several others and about a half-hour later
> she called me back. The best price to ship from Aurora, OR to Mineral
> Bluff,
> GA is $710 using FedEx Freight.
>
> Unbelievable!
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A N16BL
> Blue Ridge, Ga
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
>
> --
> AM
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | good warning label |
Sorry for the slow reply back on this.
I ordered steel braided "performance" brake lines online from Advance Auto
Parts. You cannot buy them in the brick and mortar stores (common around
Atlanta at least), but the local store did say I could use them for return
if I had an issue. The stores do have paper versions of the catalogs for
all the parts that are sold online. The brake lines are listed under the
"performance" parts on their website. Russell Performance was their
supplier. I contacted them directly to make sure I was getting 37 deg flare.
I ordered some 20" straight an4-an4 braided steel braided lines at $37 each.
I was pleasantly surprised that the steel lines had a clear protective
coating which will keep the lines from chafing my rudder assembly. They had
unique part numbers for various length lines, so make sure you're
specifiying a part number that matches the length you want.
You can also do build-to-order hoses from Aircraft Spruce. Build-to-order
hoses should be expected to cost a little more. I'm a big fan of Aircraft
Spruce. The speed that they ship out orders amazes me, and has saved me a
nice chunk of time over the course of my project.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at
Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Don,
How about the fittings are they standard AN4 fittings that would be
compatible to our fittings? You have the hoses in your shop, do they fit
okay on the brake fittings? Do you think it would be a good place to order
our brake hoses through and how was their service and turn around time?
Do you have a link to the shop you are working with?
Jim
RV9 Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ <mailto:rmkeith@gwi.net> & Marilyn
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Tell them it's for a snow blower.
----- Original Message -----
From: Konrad L. <mailto:klwerner@comcast.net> Werner
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label
Paul,
Being that straight forward would definitely defeat the purpose, now
wouldn't it? It is not what you say, but how you say it: I would try "I need
custom brake lines for an off road-RV" certainly wouldn't even be considered
lying...
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing <mailto:pbesing@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Go to the speedshop and tell them it's for an airplane and look stupid and
ask for advice...they'll push you out the door and lock it and tell you to
never come back...
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: Konrad L. Werner <klwerner@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:19:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: good warning label.
Don,
You should be fine (as long as the hose material is compatible with the
brake fluid). Just don't ever land on a highway, not even in an emergency,
as you would be violating the hose's approval!!!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Hall <mailto:dhall@donka.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: good warning label.
Your ironic humor for today:
I'm adding the matco parking brake and needed to order some shorter brake
lines. Found some 20" steel braided straight an4 lines from an online
auto/performance website.
They came with the label: "Warning: Competition/Off Road Use Only. Not
approved for highway use."
Hmmm. Well. I do hope to go "off road", so I'm thinking I should be good.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref=>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_____
Release Date: 12/17/2007 2:13 PM
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
dhall(at)donka.net wrote:
> I had a negative experience with ABF. Terrible service, ..........Don Hall
Consistent with the terrible service and shoddy reputation that ABF seems to have
earned is my first hand experience. Not only is ABF expensive, but it seems
the company does not understand nor really care about the difference between
right side up and sideways. Imagine my surprise when standing outside the ABS
truck with a digital camera in hand, this was my very first view of the RV-8
fuselage kit! By the way, the home delivery cost extra.
(http://imageshack.us) [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156914#156914
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
On the flip side ... I have had two very positive experiences with
ABF. One in particular had nice surprises associated with it. When I
had the QB fuselage shipped to me they re-weighed it, noticed it was
less than the declared weight by a few hundred pounds, and _lowered_
the price for shipping. I was at first confused by the bill presented
to me at the freight dock, then happily surprised.
It was still VERY expensive to ship though ... needless to say.
Yellow Freight, on the other hand, mis-handled my engine badly enough
to break the tie-down strap inside the crate and caused one of the
valve covers to end up being dented in. Nicely enough Superior sent
me a replacement valve cover with -zero- hesitation. Fortunately no
other damage was done to the engine.
-- Dwight
On Tue Jan 8 23:17:56 2008, Don Hall wrote :
>
>I had a negative experience with ABF. Terrible service, and they tried to
>jack the price on me claiming Van's had misweighed the package. I had to
>sick Van's on them to convince them to reweigh the box without a 200 pound
>thumb on the scale.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
While I railed about the freight industry's pricing practices, one area where there
is justification for extra charges is home delivery. When they deliver to
a business, there are loading docks, forklifts and extra hands. When they deliver
to a home, they are met with a blank stare and a look of oooooo-mmmmmyyyyy-gawwwd.
Instead of a turn around of 5 minutes, the offloading takes much
longer and time is money for them as it is for everyone. So if saving a hundred
bucks is worth the trip to the terminal, do so--it'll make you happy and the
freight company as well.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Galati
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
dhall(at)donka.net wrote:
> I had a negative experience with ABF. Terrible service, ..........Don Hall
Consistent with the terrible service and shoddy reputation that ABF seems to have
earned is my first hand experience. Not only is ABF expensive, but it seems
the company does not understand nor really care about the difference between
right side up and sideways. Imagine my surprise when standing outside the ABS
truck with a digital camera in hand, this was my very first view of the RV-8
fuselage kit! By the way, the home delivery cost extra.
(http://imageshack.us) [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156914#156914
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week |
When ABF delivered all of my various kits. They were met with about four
guys who did all the work, and had it off-loaded in about 30 seconds.
OTOH, I would've gone to the terminal -- 15 miles, perhaps, away -- to save
-- in my case -- $60, but they didn't tell me I could.
Anyway, i suspect a big problem here is the rising cost of fuel, energy,
inflation.... you know, all of those things on that VAF thread that people
claimed not to worry about... that it was a figment of the negative media
(g).
Surprise!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
While I railed about the freight industry's pricing practices, one area
where there is justification for extra charges is home delivery. When they
deliver to a business, there are loading docks, forklifts and extra hands.
When they deliver to a home, they are met with a blank stare and a look of
oooooo-mmmmmyyyyy-gawwwd. Instead of a turn around of 5 minutes, the
offloading takes much longer and time is money for them as it is for
everyone. So if saving a hundred bucks is worth the trip to the terminal,
do so--it'll make you happy and the freight company as well.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Galati
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Finishing Kit Shipping Cost...this week
dhall(at)donka.net wrote:
> I had a negative experience with ABF. Terrible service, ..........Don
> Hall
Consistent with the terrible service and shoddy reputation that ABF seems to
have earned is my first hand experience. Not only is ABF expensive, but it
seems the company does not understand nor really care about the difference
between right side up and sideways. Imagine my surprise when standing
outside the ABS truck with a digital camera in hand, this was my very first
view of the RV-8 fuselage kit! By the way, the home delivery cost extra.
(http://imageshack.us) [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156914#156914
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Falcon Pitot Tube |
I have a chromed Falcon heated pitot tube without the static air line.
For the airspeed connection, it has a tapered fitting (like an AN
fitting). Does anyone know what the fitting surface angle is on this
pitot? I have a 37-deg Flaring tool and I want to run aluminum line for
10-12 inches for heat dissipation. Is the taper 37-deg? Will the Falcon
fitting work with a 37-deg. flare? Thanks in advance for any help!
Doug Fischer
RV-9A wings
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 2 or 3 blade props |
Let's get back to the building of RV10's. I've seen some 10's with 2 blade
and a few with 3 blade props. I've heard many differing ideas on which to
use. Why have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3 blades? I know
3's are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are too old to care
about that.
Rick
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Falcon Pitot Tube |
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:17:02 -0500 (EST)
dfischer@iserv.net wrote:
>
> I have a chromed Falcon heated pitot tube without the static air line.
> For the airspeed connection, it has a tapered fitting (like an AN
> fitting). Does anyone know what the fitting surface angle is on this
> pitot? I have a 37-deg Flaring tool and I want to run aluminum line for
> 10-12 inches for heat dissipation. Is the taper 37-deg? Will the Falcon
> fitting work with a 37-deg. flare? Thanks in advance for any help!
>
You should be able to get a pretty good idea by holding the pitot tube fitting
next to an aviation fitting and comparing the angles with the Mark I eyeball.
It is quite likely a 37 deg aviation flared fitting.
Kevin Horton
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
I'm going with a MT three blade on my 6A along with counterweighted crank as suggested
by MT.....for the smoothness - we've added a set of Vetterman exhausts
with mufflers for quietness. My wife and I are planning on a lot of cross country
flying and don't want to arrive with a body buzz
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Barnes <rickbarnes@highlanddental.com>
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 11:41 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: 2 or 3 blade props
>
>Let's get back to the building of RV10's. I've seen some 10's with 2 blade
>and a few with 3 blade props. I've heard many differing ideas on which to
>use. Why have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3 blades? I know
>3's are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are too old to care
>about that.
>
>
>
>Rick
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
Money difference is my first consideration...that said, if you feel to
old to care about it the only benefit I see for you is comfort. The
three blade is smoother therefore less likely to rattle your bones. Just
playing!
Carlos in AZ -7A
Going with a Catto 3-blade until I can afford the C/S prop
Do not archive
Rick Barnes wrote:
>
> Lets get back to the building of RV10s. Ive seen some 10s with 2
> blade and a few with 3 blade props. Ive heard many differing ideas on
> which to use. Why have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3
> blades? I know 3s are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are
> too old to care about that.
>
> Rick
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or
organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or
an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and
its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is
prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please
immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email
from your system.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
Rick
2 Blades are normally more efficient in terms of top speed (less drag),
don't know if that is also true about climb thrust though...
3 Blades are normally smoother as the balance out the power pulses
better. Theoretically, they can absorb more engine power.
I never had sex with either a 2- or 3 blade prop, so I shouldn't really
comment on the "sexier" part between the two ;-)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Barnes
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: 2 or 3 blade props
Let's get back to the building of RV10's. I've seen some 10's with 2
blade and a few with 3 blade props. I've heard many differing ideas on
which to use. Why have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3
blades? I know 3's are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are
too old to care about that.
Rick
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | update on hangar lighting |
My electrician had suggested I'd get the most light for the cost by using an
outside yard light for my hangar shop lighting. I tried one, and it worked
great, so I documented the steps I used to do it and created a web page for
it. See here:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/HangarLights.htm
If you want inexpensive lighting, this is your best bet, from all I've seen
brian
9:14 AM
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 2 or 3 blade props |
Back to the Building -
The Negatives are:
1. Additional empty weight, difficulty in removing the lower
cowl,
2. Need for more real hp to turn the 3 blades and
3. Greater disc drag
The Positives are, as you have said.
1. Sexy
2. Then comes to mind, more bite to climb to cruise faster than
any two blade.
3. And the most important is the smoothing out of the combustion
vibration events through the airframe. Six cylinders divided in 720
degrees of blade rotation with three blades is better math than two
blades
As the avionics/electronics percentage of the completed kit has gone
north of 25% (the old steam gauge rule), as we RV-10 builders embrace
EFIS cockpits and show GA what can be done with an Owner Built Kit
Aircraft, the avionics percentage tends to get near 50%. Vibration
takes its toll on old pilots, cash frugal pilots, metal degradation
(which has memory) and obviously the increased need to visit your local
Avionics Retailer more frequently to replace or repair the consequence
of vibration.
The question remains, would a builder chose to sacrifice 3% faster
cruise (with a two blade) to cut their long term avionics investment?
And how long were they going to amortize that investment. Climb is an
important mission statement in choosing the RV-10 in the Pacific NW.
More than 20% of the builders who have completed and are flying RV-10s,
quickly put them on the market for sale. There are many compelling and
enlightening reasons as to why.
And NO, it is not due to a design or performance flaw. Had Hartzell not
offered the Scimitar two blade, the choice would have been even easier.
Oh and by the way, no 2 blade pilot has publically challenged an equally
powered 3 blade to a time to climb, cruise flight over fixed timed
interval and fuel restriction to see what the numbers are. Maybe
someday this year we will get some color commentary on this great
builder challenge. I had hopes that Tim and Vic would duke it out but
then I was dreaming at the time.
I'm going 3 Blade and willing to sacrifice 3% cruise in LOP operations
(Oh yeh, and drag reduction features can overcome that 3% to level the
playing field even more) Borrowing on my retirement fund to put even
more into electronics. Been to the avionics shop often enough to know
that was one of the reasons to give up Certified GA for Kit Built and to
build your own wiring and design your own panel ...ala Tim Olson and the
RV-10 University site.
Old enough to care -
John Cox - #40600
A&P with IA
And EAA Tech Advisor
Your results may vary
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: 2 or 3 blade props
Let's get back to the building of RV10's. I've seen some 10's with 2
blade and a few with 3 blade props. I've heard many differing ideas on
which to use. Why have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3
blades? I know 3's are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are
too old to care about that.
Rick
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
And here's some useful info from his ad:
"If you need help deciding what type lights are right for your application
you can use the following basic guidelines: 1) High Bays with an aluminum or
acrylic reflector are used when your mounting height is 16 foot or above. 2)
Standard Aluminum or Acrylic lowbays are used when your mounting height is
between 10 and 16 foot. If you need a basic layout of your area use the
formula listed below (Length x width) over (Fixture spacing squared)
Fixtures needed. An average spacing for this fixture is 15 foot. So just
multiply the length times the width of your area and put that number over
225 and you will have a close ideal of the number of fixtures you will need
for a 75 foot candle light level. This is the light level typically used in
Machine Shops and other close work areas. If you have a question please feel
free to email me or give me a call on my 800 number at 800 785 0473."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: hangar lighting
There was some discussion last month about hangar lights so I thought
there might still be some interest in this.
One of my neighbors just bought some 400 W metal halide low-bay lights
for his business & hangar for a pretty good price & they appear to be
high quality. The only downside is this seller sells them in lots of 10
(4 is all you should need in a 50x50 hangar).
Search ebay for item 120205873311 then go to this seller's store to pick
the right light. Be sure to check the input voltage. He's got some that
are 120/240 volt & some that are 277/480 volt.
Charlie
12:05 PM
9:14 AM
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
RICK, I THINK COST IS A BIGGY.
DOUG
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Barnes <rickbarnes@highlanddental.com>
Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:41 am
Subject: RV-List: 2 or 3 blade props
Let=99s get back to the building of RV10=99s.=C2-
I=99ve seen some 10=99s with 2 blade and a few with 3 blade
props.=C2- I=99ve heard many differing ideas on which to use.=C2-
Why
have some chosen going with a 2 and some with 3 blades?=C2- I know 3
=99s
are sexier and smoother running, but some of us are too old to care about th
at.
=C2-
Rick
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
And then there is a four bladed MT prop. Sexy ? you bet, smoooother than a baby's
backside, as close to "hummmmmmm" as I've seen. Harder to remove the lower
cowl ? Maybe a tad. Without the upper gear fairings...sameo sameo. Why yes we
have flown with 2, 3 and 4 bladed props on this same airplane. We still have
the four blade on it, guess which one we like..... HRII IO540 N561FS KABONG
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>Date: 2008/01/09 Wed PM 02:05:32 CST
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: 2 or 3 blade props
>
>Back to the Building
>The Negatives are:
>
>1.Additional empty weight,difficulty in removing the lower cowl,
>2.Need for more real hp toturn the 3 blades and
>3.Greater disc drag
>
>The Positives are, as you have said.
>1.Sexy
>2.Then comes to mind, morebite to climb to cruise faster than any two blade.
>3.And the most important isthe smoothing out of the combustion vibration events
through the airframe.Six cylinders divided in 720 degrees of blade rotation
with three blades isbetter math than two blades
>
>As the avionics/electronics percentage ofthe completed kit has gone north of 25%
(the old steam gauge rule), as we RV-10builders embrace EFIS cockpits and show
GA what can be done with an Owner BuiltKit Aircraft, the avionics percentage
tends to get near 50%. Vibrationtakes its toll on old pilots, cash frugal pilots,
metal degradation (which hasmemory) and obviously the increased need to
visit your local Avionics Retailer morefrequently to replace or repair the consequence
of vibration.
>
>The question remains, would a builder choseto sacrifice 3% faster cruise (with
a two blade) to cut their long termavionics investment? And how long were they
going to amortize thatinvestment. Climb is an important mission statement in
choosing the RV-10in the Pacific NW.
>
>More than 20% of the builders who havecompleted and are flying RV-10s, quickly
put them on the market for sale. Thereare many compelling and enlightening reasons
as to why.
>
>And NO, it is not due to a design orperformance flaw. Had Hartzell not offered
the Scimitar two blade, thechoice would have been even easier.
>
>Oh and by the way, no 2 blade pilot has publicallychallenged an equally powered
3 blade to a time to climb, cruise flight over fixedtimed interval and fuel
restriction to see what the numbers are. Maybesomeday this year we will get some
color commentary on this great builderchallenge. I had hopes that Tim and Vic
would duke it out but then I wasdreaming at the time.
>
>Im going 3 Blade and willing tosacrifice 3% cruise in LOP operations (Oh yeh,
and drag reduction features canovercome that 3% to level the playing field even
more) Borrowing on myretirement fund to put even more into electronics. Been
to theavionics shop often enough to know that was one of the reasons to give
upCertified GA for Kit Built and to build your own wiring and design your ownpanel
ala Tim Olson and the RV-10 University site.
>
>Old enough to care
>John Cox - #40600
>A&P with IA
>And EAA Tech Advisor
>
>Your results may vary
>
>Do not Archive
>
>From:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Barnes
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 20088:42 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: 2 or 3 bladeprops
>
>Lets get back to the buildingof RV10s. Ive seen some 10s with 2 blade and a fewwith
3 blade props. Ive heard many differing ideas on which touse. Why have some
chosen going with a 2 and some with 3 blades? Iknow 3s are sexier and smoother
running, but some of us are too old tocare about that.
>
>Rick<span
>=====<span
> - The RV-List Email Forum -</span><span
>List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,<span
>Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,<span
>Photoshare, and much much more:<span
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List<span
>=====<span
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<span
>content also available via the Web Forums!<span
> --> http://forums.matronics.com<span
>=====<span
> - List Contribution Web Site -<span
>Thank you for your generous support!<span
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.<span
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<span
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: update on hangar lighting |
Brien,
Thanks for the info on the hangar lighting.
Would it work to mount the area light, using the vertical surface mounting
arm, on the side of the horizontal member of the wood truss in my hangar? It
appears that the globe of the light would still be below the bottom level of
the truss.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Meyette" <bmeyette@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: update on hangar lighting
>
> My electrician had suggested I'd get the most light for the cost by using
> an
> outside yard light for my hangar shop lighting. I tried one, and it
> worked
> great, so I documented the steps I used to do it and created a web page
> for
> it. See here:
>
> http://brian76.mystarband.net/HangarLights.htm
>
> If you want inexpensive lighting, this is your best bet, from all I've
> seen
>
> brian
>
> 9:14 AM
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
Anyone know any details about this product?
http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
Charlie
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
On 19:18 2008-01-09 Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Anyone know any details about this product?
>
> http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
>
> IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
> after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
> than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
Nothing more than is already posted on their website, but it looks like a
very interesting device. I've been following it for a while now, and will
probably pick one up this year when the weather gets better and I start
flying more.
Personally, I find the tracking/datalogging capability to be more
interesting than the emergency functionality, but the emergency capability
is extremely compelling. Flying around the mountains in the Pacific
Northwest it's nice to know that someone will have a starting point to
locate your carcass if something goes wrong unexpectedly.
I could see myself using the findmespot product for flying, motorcycling,
bicycling, and hiking. In all cases, it would be neat to be able to call
up a Google map later and see where i've been. Up until now, the only way
is to download a track from my GPS, convert it to a Google-compatible file,
and then view it on Google Maps. And that does nobody any good if the GPS
goes down with the plane...
-Rob
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
Charlie England wrote:
>
> Anyone know any details about this product?
>
> http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
>
> IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
> after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
> than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
>
> Charlie
There is quite a bit of info and background on the Spot on the VAF site
and forums. Looks like a useful device.
Sam Buchanan
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? |
You can do something similar called APRS, if you have a amateur radio
license. Feed nearly any sort of telemetry from airplane (or whatever) to a
repeater, and the the internet if you like. I don't know enough about it to
be dangerous yet, but plan to figure it out and equip the RV-7 with it.
Another RVer in VA has it working in his RV-6A. Cool stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Position_Reporting_System
http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/
http://n1vg.net/opentracker/
http://aprs.fi/?
etc
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Jan 9, 2008 10:18 PM, Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Anyone know any details about this product?
>
> http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx
>
> IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work
> after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper
> than typical PLBs with built in GPS.)
>
> Charlie
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
In a message dated 01/09/2008 2:16:02 PM Central Standard Time,
johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
The Negatives are:
1. Additional empty weight, difficulty in removing the lower cowl,
2. Need for more real hp to turn the 3 blades and
3. Greater disc drag
>>>
Uh, and one more blade to scrub the bugs off of...
8-)
>From The PossumWorks in TN,
Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" with a Catto 3-blade nose-job
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 2 or 3 blade props |
In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:04:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
My wife and I are planning on a lot of cross country flying and don't want
to arrive with a body buzz
==================================================
My wife liked the Kitfox for the opposite reason ;o)
-GV
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|