---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/16/08: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Dana Overall) 2. 04:17 AM - Black Magic flies (Dana Overall) 3. 05:45 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Richard McBride) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (wgill10@comcast.net) 5. 06:57 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Mike Robertson) 6. 07:15 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Richard McBride) 7. 07:25 AM - Re: Black Magic flies (Konrad L. Werner) 8. 07:45 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Bret Smith) 9. 08:25 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Chuck Jensen) 10. 08:45 AM - Re: Black Magic flies (Tim Bryan) 11. 09:16 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Ralph Finch) 12. 09:34 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Mike Robertson) 13. 09:45 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Richard McBride) 14. 10:39 AM - New Alternative to PayPal... (kirt klevin) 15. 12:10 PM - How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (Chris W) 16. 01:46 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (John Morgensen) 17. 02:12 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (Vanremog@aol.com) 18. 02:45 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (Rob Prior) 19. 02:47 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (Chris W) 20. 03:05 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (Ron Lee) 21. 03:12 PM - Re: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? (John Morgensen) 22. 04:09 PM - Re: Black Magic flies (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 23. 05:27 PM - Re: 406 MHz alternatives? (David Cudney) 24. 06:04 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Ralph Hoover) 25. 06:10 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Carl Bell) 26. 06:12 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Ralph Hoover) 27. 06:22 PM - Re: Black Magic flies (RV6 Flyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:13 AM PST US From: Dana Overall Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not required. Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR GPS must be test flow n to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, approaches, inroute, etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, just as w e must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight tests ONLY, n o biggie. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Flying O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 08 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:27 AM PST US From: Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: Black Magic flies For those not over on Doug's site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=25638 Great weekend. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Flying O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference .. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:57 AM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements I had a similar question with my -8. I was getting a similar response from the Washington DC FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to have an IA fly the flight test regime. That wasn't about to happen. Consequently, the rep from the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA HQs. I was told all I needed to do was perform the ground and flight tests and fill out the appropriate documentation and make the log book entry. I got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. The tests are really only to ensure no interference and that the GPS operates to a level of accuracy. If anyone is interested I can provide a copy of my two tests. Rick McBride RV-8 N523RJ Centreville, VA >From: Dana Overall >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:06:34 -0500 > > >If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not required. > Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR GPS must be test >flown to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, approaches, inroute, >etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, >just as we must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight >tests ONLY, no biggie. > >Dana Overall > >Richmond, KY i39 > >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >Flying >O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg >http://rvflying.tripod.com > >do not archive > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:48 AM PST US From: wgill10@comcast.net Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Hello Rick, Please post the tests and/or test program provided by John Stark (or send off-line). I have read the ground and flight test portions of AC 20-138A and can perform those tests and make an entry into the aircraft logbook. Thank you everyone for the excellent guidance here. Bill RV-7 N151WP Lee's Summit, MO -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Richard McBride" > > I had a similar question with my -8. I was getting a similar response from > the Washington DC FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to have > an IA fly the flight test regime. That wasn't about to happen. > Consequently, the rep from the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA > HQs. I was told all I needed to do was perform the ground and flight tests > and fill out the appropriate documentation and make the log book entry. I > got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. The > tests are really only to ensure no interference and that the GPS operates to > a level of accuracy. If anyone is interested I can provide a copy of my two > tests. > > Rick McBride > RV-8 N523RJ > Centreville, VA > > > >From: Dana Overall > >To: > >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements > >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:06:34 -0500 > > > > > >If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not required. > > Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR GPS must be test > >flown to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, approaches, inroute, > >etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, > >just as we must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight > >tests ONLY, no biggie. > > > >Dana Overall > > > >Richmond, KY i39 > > > >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > >Flying > >O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 > > > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg > >http://rvflying.tripod.com > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 > > > > > >
Hello Rick,
 
Please post the tests and/or test program provided by John Stark (or send off-line). I have read the ground and flight test portions of AC 20-138A and can perform those tests and make an entry into the aircraft logbook. Thank you everyone for the excellent guidance here.
 
Bill
RV-7 N151WP
Lee's Summit, MO
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Richard McBride" <rickrv8@msn.com>

> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard McBride"
>
> I had a similar question with my -8. I was getting a similar response from
> the Washington DC FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to have
> an IA fly the flight test regime. That wasn't about to happen.
> Consequently, the rep from the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA
> HQs. I was told all I needed to do was perform the ground and flight tests
> and fill out the appropriate documentation and make the log book entry. I
> got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. The
> tests are really only to ensure no interference and that the GPS operates to
> a level of accuracy. If anyone is interested I can Imron /www.m
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:25 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Rick is absolutely correct on this issue. Fly a test flight to insure ever ything is working properly, make a logbook entry to validate the tests and have a good day. There is NO such thing as a 337 for experimental amateur built aircraft. Mike Robertson Das Fed > From: rickrv8@msn.com> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: I FR GPS requirements> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:42:53 -0500> > --> RV-List m essage posted by: "Richard McBride" > > I had a similar qu estion with my -8. I was getting a similar response from > the Washington D C FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to have > an IA fly the f light test regime. That wasn't about to happen. > Consequently, the rep fro m the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA > HQs. I was told all I nee ded to do was perform the ground and flight tests > and fill out the approp riate documentation and make the log book entry. I > got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. The > tests are really onl y to ensure no interference and that the GPS operates to > a level of accur acy. If anyone is interested I can provide a copy of my two > tests.> > Ric k McBride> RV-8 N523RJ> Centreville, VA> > > >From: Dana Overall >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements> >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:0 6:34 -0500> >> >> >If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not required. > > Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR G PS must be test > >flown to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, appr oaches, inroute, > >etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, > >just as we must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight > >tests ONLY, no biggie.> >> >Dana Overall> >> >Richmond, KY i39> >> >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"> >Flying> >O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4> >> >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg> >http ://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg> >http://rvflying.tripod.com> >> >do not archive> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ __________________> >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.> > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference .. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:11 AM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Bill, I'll send you four documents directly. If anyone else would like a copy please just let me know. Rick McBride >From: wgill10@comcast.net >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:43:56 +0000 > >Hello Rick, > >Please post the tests and/or test program provided by John Stark (or send >off-line). I have read the ground and flight test portions of AC 20-138A >and can perform those tests and make an entry into the aircraft logbook. >Thank you everyone for the excellent guidance here. > >Bill >RV-7 N151WP >Lee's Summit, MO > >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: "Richard McBride" > > > > > I had a similar question with my -8. I was getting a similar response >from > > the Washington DC FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to >have > > an IA fly the flight test regime. That wasn't about to happen. > > Consequently, the rep from the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA > > HQs. I was told all I needed to do was perform the ground and flight >tests > > and fill out the appropriate documentation and make the log book entry. >I > > got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. >The > > tests are really only to ensure no interference and that the GPS >operates to > > a level of accuracy. If anyone is interested I can provide a copy of my >two > > tests. > > > > Rick McBride > > RV-8 N523RJ > > Centreville, VA > > > > > > >From: Dana Overall > > >To: > > >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements > > >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:06:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > >If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not >required. > > > Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR GPS must be test > > >flown to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, approaches, >inroute, > > >etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, > > >just as we must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight > > >tests ONLY, no biggie. > > > > > >Dana Overall > > > > > >Richmond, KY i39 > > > > > >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > > >Flying > > >O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 > > > > > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg > > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg > > >http://rvflying.tripod.com > > > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > > > >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:26 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Black Magic flies CONGRATULATIONS DANA !!! I remember the day you come on board here. How time flies... Konrad ----- Original Message ----- From: Dana Overall To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 5:14 AM Subject: RV-List: Black Magic flies For those not over on Doug's site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=25638 Great weekend. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Flying O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a showMessenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:52 AM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements I know this is a little drift to the thread...but since Mike has entered the fray I would like his input on another recent declaration. A fellow pilot just told me this past week that he had read in a popular aero-related magazine that aircraft with "composite props" could not be certified for IFR flights. He could not remember which magazine. Can anyone confirm this? Bret Smith RV-9A "Finishing" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Robertson To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Rick is absolutely correct on this issue. Fly a test flight to insure everything is working properly, make a logbook entry to validate the tests and have a good day. There is NO such thing as a 337 for experimental amateur built aircraft. Mike Robertson Das Fed ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From: rickrv8@msn.com > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:42:53 -0500 > > > I had a similar question with my -8. I was getting a similar response from > the Washington DC FSDO. They didn't require a 337 but did want me to have > an IA fly the flight test regime. That wasn't about to happen. > Consequently, the rep from the FSDO and myself got in touch with the FAA > HQs. I was told all I needed to do was perform the ground and flight tests > and fill out the appropriate documentation and make the log book entry. I > got a copy of the test program from John Stark. It was not a big deal. The > tests are really only to ensure no interference and that the GPS operates to > a level of accuracy. If anyone is interested I can provide a copy of my two > tests. > > Rick McBride > RV-8 N523RJ > Centreville, VA > > > >From: Dana Overall > >To: > >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements > >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:06:34 -0500 > > > > > >If I am not mistaken, the posters major concern was the 337. Not required. > > Even in a certified install, a newly installed IFR GPS must be test > >flown to insure it's accuracy in the various modes, approaches, inroute, > >etc. We in experimentals, need to make log book entries prior to IFR, > >just as we must for acro, which to me indicates we do the same flight > >tests ONLY, no biggie. > > > >Dana Overall > > > >Richmond, KY i39 > > > >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > >Flying > >O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 > > > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg > >http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg > >http://rvflying.tripod.com > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0 12008 > &g==================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about rr/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:20 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements From: "Chuck Jensen" Well, someone read it so it must be true....or not. How does stupid stuff like that get started and how does it seem to take on a life of its own? It's a scary world we live in! Chuck Jensen From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret Smith I know this is a little drift to the thread...but since Mike has entered the fray I would like his input on another recent declaration. A fellow pilot just told me this past week that he had read in a popular aero-related magazine that aircraft with "composite props" could not be certified for IFR flights. He could not remember which magazine. Can anyone confirm this? Bret Smith RV-9A "Finishing" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:01 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Black Magic flies Dana, wow how time, I mean planes fly. Great Job! Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Black Magic flies For those not over on Doug's site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=25638 Great weekend. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Flying O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_065.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _____ Watch "Cause Effect," a showMessenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:12 AM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements I would like them too please. Ralph Finch Davis, California -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard McBride Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Bill, I'll send you four documents directly. If anyone else would like a copy please just let me know. Rick McBride ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:33 AM PST US From: Mike Robertson Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Bret, That is absolutely false. I fly behind a composite prop myself and the RV- 9A that I fly is fully IFR ready. Mike Robertson Das Fed Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirementsDate: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:21:08 - 0500From: cjensen@dts9000.comTo: rv-list@matronics.com Well, someone read it so it must be true....or not. How does stupid stuff like that get started and how does it seem to take on a life of its own? I t's a scary world we live in! Chuck Jensen From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matro nics.com]On Behalf Of Bret Smith I know this is a little drift to the thread...but since Mike has entered th e fray I would like his input on another recent declaration. A fellow pilo t just told me this past week that he had read in a popular aero-related ma gazine that aircraft with "composite props" could not be certified for IFR flights. He could not remember which magazine. Can anyone confirm this? Bret SmithRV-9A "Finishing"Blue Ridge, GAwww.FlightInnovations.com _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:54 AM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Ralph, I've attached four documents. One just outlines the requirements. The other three are the addendum to the POH and the ground and flight results. Rick >From: "Ralph Finch" >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:11:54 -0800 > > >I would like them too please. > >Ralph Finch >Davis, California > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard McBride >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:11 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements > > >Bill, > >I'll send you four documents directly. If anyone else would like a copy >please just let me know. > >Rick McBride > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:49 AM PST US From: kirt klevin Subject: RV-List: New Alternative to PayPal... Being a cheap RV builder/flyer I've always been a little irked with PayPal's fee's as I though they might be a bit high and at times they are difficult to deal with....as our small business has grown (its still very small) the paypal fee's do take a chunk out of the bottom line and we don't do enough volume to invest in a credit card machine and associated monthly and transaction fees.... But now we have found Revolution Money Exchange (www.revolutionmoneyexchange.com). You sign up (free) just like paypal, but when you exchange money with other members (just like paypal) its free! The only charges are if you want to cash out with a check (vice money transfer to your bank account) and a few other things I don't think any of us will ever use. Sending and receiving money is totally free. Thought you all might benefit when buying and selling on the net. Wouldn't mind hearing any experiences anyone has had with Revolution Money Exchange. Happy Flying/Building!!! Kurt Bison Mountain www.bisonmountainbags.com bisonmountain@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:04 PM PST US From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Subject: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? It sounds like people are looking for something better than an ELT to help people find them after a crash. I have an idea that I think is worth exploring. To be legal you will still need an ELT or some other "official" device. In order to do this you would have to get a HAM radio license, but that should be a deterrent, any one who can build an air plane should be able to pass the amazingly simple 35 question test to get their call sign (Morse code is no longer required for any ham license). In ham radio we have this thing called APRS (Automatic Position Reporting System). All you need is a GPS receiver with a serial output, a transmitter with antenna, and a TNC. In ham radio a TNC is used to convert digital data to audio tones in a similar way that a telephone modem does. There are a few special purpose TNCs that are just for APRS and they cost less than $50. Some are so small that they could be installed inside the transmitter. A good 2 meter transmitter can be found new for $160 or less. You wouldn't have to fly much more than 1000' AGL to get at least a 100 mile range. If you had a good antenna and were over 5000' AGL a 300 mile range wouldn't be surprising. There are enough repeaters and monitoring stations around the USA to give you coverage if your range is 100 miles. The repeaters and monitoring stations then send the data to the internet where anyone can go online and find where you are at. Go here to find where I am at. http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=ke5gix If you have friends that know that you are out flying somewhere they can check and find out where you were when you last transmitted your position. Not only will it tell them where you were it will tell them when you were there, how fast you were going and in what direction. The TNC I use is called an "Open Tracker" and has 2 configurations that can be changed with a flip of a switch. In normal flight you could have it set to transmit your position once every 5 minutes. Then in an emergency, you could flip the switch and have it transmit every 15 seconds along with an emergency message so anyone who sees the position report will know you are in trouble. Even if you didn't flip the switch, the standard mode will transmit your position more rapidly if there is any significant change in course. Obviously this isn't the best system because once you are on the ground the range of the system isn't near as great, and if you go down in the middle of nowhere, there may not be a repeater or monitoring station in range. However, there will be a record of your recent flight history on the internet for anyone to see and you will have a transmitter that is probably more useful in finding help than just an air band radio. There are satellites for ham radio but there aren't very many so, you could end up having to wait nearly 20 hours before one was overhead and you could get a signal out. The most common one you could use to retransmit your emergency position report is the International Space Stations that orbits the earth about every 90 minutes. However, it's orbit is such that only 2 or 3 passes each day will be in range of a given point on the earth. I think there are other satellites up there that could be used for that but I haven't got into it enough to know for sure. If you want to spend the money and get a nice radio with a lot of these features built in, you can also see weather reports on the screen. Along with position data, fixed stations that have a weather station can also transmit the weather conditions along with their position reports. When I get my base station reorganized the way I want, I will be doing this. I can't really say how many people do that so how useful it would be in flight is unknown. -- Chris W KE5GIX "Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm" Ham Radio Repeater Database. http://hrrdb.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:10 PM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? Chris W wrote: ...snip... > > If you want to spend the money and get a nice radio with a lot of > these features built in, you can also see weather reports on the > screen. Along with position data, fixed stations that have a weather > station can also transmit the weather conditions along with their > position reports. When I get my base station reorganized the way I > want, I will be doing this. I can't really say how many people do > that so how useful it would be in flight is unknown. > > I'm interested. Can you point to products for someone with zero HAM knowledge? John Morgensen ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:53 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers? N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:23 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? On 14:07 2008-01-16 Vanremog@aol.com wrote: > I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program > that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five > minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in > their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers? Interesting, but unfortunately only useful in areas with Cell coverage. That means not useful for flying in the Pacific Northwet, where you quickly get into areas without coverage. So far the best solutions still seem to be the Spot and the APRS, although the APRS solution also needs coverage by the APRS repeaters. I don't have a feel for how good that coverage is. For that matter, I don't have a feel for how good the coverage of a satellite phone is either, and that's what the Spot system uses. Does anyone know how constant the coverage is, or if it will go to nothing if you crash in a valley? -Rob ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:17 PM PST US From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? John Morgensen wrote: > > I'm interested. Can you point to products for someone with zero HAM > knowledge? > > John Morgensen For a basic radio to transmit the position reports I would pick this one.... http://www.texastowers.com/tm271ak.htm The nice thing about that radio for emergencies is it puts out lots of power and in standby mode between transmissions, it draws less than 250ma with the display back light off. For a fancy radio that will transmit the position reports as well as display position reports from other stations on the screen and display weather data for other stations, this is pretty much the best radio... http://universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/0710.html That radio can also be had at Texas Towers but for some reason they don't have it on their web site. I like Texas towers as a business better than Universal Radio but their web site doesn't have much on it. If you want a GPS receiver just for this, I would suggest this one.... https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=61&osCsid=1li39b4ffp9fv3k7km6mkbfva6 or maybe https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=37 They both are small and use very little power. The open tracker TNC can be had here.... https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=72 If you don't mind soldering the TNC to wires and hooking it up to the radio inside you can get the tiny version of the open tracker here https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=64 For more information on the Open Tracker project go here http://n1vg.net/opentracker/ You will also need to buy or build wires to hook everything together. If you use the expensive radio, you don't need the TNC as it has that built in. If you use the basic radio, you can hook up the TNC either via the Microphone and speaker jack or you can order a cable that for some bizarre reason Kenwood only sells in the European version of the radio. The cable is only $12 from one of the Kenwood parts stores and it is pretty simple to take the top of the radio and install the wire to a plug on the circuit board. That way is much nicer because then you can have the microphone also hooked up for voice communication. There are lots of antenna options. The antenna can be just like the antennas for you com radio, they just need to be a little shorter since the 2 meter ham band is at a little higher frequency (144 - 148Mhz). Depending on your power setting, the radio will need 3 to 10 amps during transmit, however each position report takes less than 1 second, so if it is set to transmit your position once every 2 to 5 minutes after you are on the ground, it shouldn't need too big of a battery. -- Chris W KE5GIX "Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM, learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm" Ham Radio Repeater Database. http://hrrdb.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:56 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? How would that work in the remote parts of the west and mountains were I fly? Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Vanremog@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers? ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:41 PM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: RV-List: How To Found: was Home-made 406 MHz alternatives? No offense, but cell phone coverage in the Sierra Nevada Mountains is spotty at best. If I am going to crash, the odds are that it will be in the most inaccessible place you can imagine. The PLB and Spot systems are satellite based and should work anywhere on the planet that you can get a GPS signal. I would like to learn more about the APRS system mentioned by Chris W. John Morgensen Vanremog@aol.com wrote: > I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC program > that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every five > minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help in their > own rescue if it were needed. Any takers? > > > > *N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape > > in the new year. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:28 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Black Magic flies In a message dated 01/16/2008 6:19:46 AM Central Standard Time, bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: Great weekend. >>> After all this time, I figgered it'd be a cold day in.........Kentucky (!) when you got that thing in the air! Way to freakin' GO! Big time congrats to you, Kahuna and all else involved for launching another fine example of the breed into the atmosphere!! Best wishes, be careful, and enjoy Phase Won of your journey! >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo", Columbia, TN do not archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:49 PM PST US From: David Cudney Subject: Re: RV-List: 406 MHz alternatives? I had the opportunity to fly in the Alaskan wilderness last summer. We, Loretta and I, were instructed in the use of a satellite phone which was on board in case of an emergency. It was simple to use and as I recall costs were a couple of bucks a call depending on the length of the call. The guide mentioned that the cost of satellite phones has dropped recently to make them competitive with cell phones -- at least for occasional use. They are also much smaller than I remembered. I would consider their use particularly if you are flying over sparely populated areas where cell phone coverage might not be reliable. dave RV7A--90% done 90% to go On Jan 16, 2008, at 3:10 PM, John Morgensen wrote: > No offense, but cell phone coverage in the Sierra Nevada Mountains > is spotty at best. If I am going to crash, the odds are that it will > be in the most inaccessible place you can imagine. The PLB and Spot > systems are satellite based and should work anywhere on the planet > that you can get a GPS signal. I would like to learn more about the > APRS system mentioned by Chris W. > > John Morgensen > > Vanremog@aol.com wrote: >> >> I've said before that if we could have a personal tracker PC >> program that you could setup to ping your tracking cell phone every >> five minutes and update itself as to location, everyone could help >> in their own rescue if it were needed. Any takers? >> >> >> >> N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 883hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) >> >> >> >> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:28 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Rick, I will be going through the same thing when I get a little farther down the road. Posting the tests from John would probably benefit a number of folks. Thank you. -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:41 PM PST US From: "Carl Bell" Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Mike, I'm curious, what composite prop are you using. I'm looking for an alternative to a metal prop that may run smoother. Thx CJ _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Robertson Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:31 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements Bret, That is absolutely false. I fly behind a composite prop myself and the RV-9A that I fly is fully IFR ready. Mike Robertson Das Fed _____ Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements From: cjensen@dts9000.com Well, someone read it so it must be true....or not. How does stupid stuff like that get started and how does it seem to take on a life of its own? It's a scary world we live in! Chuck Jensen From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bret Smith I know this is a little drift to the thread...but since Mike has entered the fray I would like his input on another recent declaration. A fellow pilot just told me this past week that he had read in a popular aero-related magazine that aircraft with "composite props" could not be certified for IFR flights. He could not remember which magazine. Can anyone confirm this? Bret Smith RV-9A "Finishing" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows VistaR + Windows LiveT. Start now! ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:02 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR GPS requirements I replied too soon, You posted and I now have them also. Thanks:) "Ralph, I've attached four documents. One just outlines the requirements. The other three are the addendum to the POH and the ground and flight results. Rick From: "Ralph Finch" -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:06 PM PST US From: RV6 Flyer Subject: RE: RV-List: Black Magic flies Congratulations! I hope that TAX TIME does not get in the way of Flight Te sting. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,075 + Flying Hours So. 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