Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - rivet hardening (glen matejcek)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (glen matejcek)
3. 05:41 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (darnpilot@aol.com)
4. 06:02 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Bob Collins)
5. 06:09 AM - Re: Custom tank builder (Kyle Boatright)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (darnpilot@aol.com)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Bill Boyd)
8. 07:05 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (J Riffel)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (Bill Boyd)
10. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (darnpilot@aol.com)
11. 07:36 AM - Removing Tanks (Louis Willig)
12. 07:48 AM - Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (John Barrett)
13. 07:52 AM - Re: rivet hardening (Ralph Finch)
14. 08:00 AM - Re: rivet hardening (David Burton)
15. 08:24 AM - Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (Ron Lee)
16. 08:37 AM - Re: Custom tank builder (Doug Weiler)
17. 08:40 AM - Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (David Burton)
18. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Ed Anderson)
19. 01:46 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
20. 02:47 PM - Re: rivet hardening (Kevin Horton)
21. 03:01 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (darnpilot@aol.com)
22. 03:04 PM - Re: Removing Tanks (Charlie England)
23. 03:55 PM - Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
24. 04:07 PM - nonskid for steps (Don Mack)
25. 04:12 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
26. 04:28 PM - Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
27. 04:32 PM - Re: nonskid for steps (Ron Lee)
28. 04:51 PM - Re: nonskid for steps (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
29. 04:51 PM - nonskid for steps (Ralph Hoover)
30. 05:10 PM - Re: nonskid for steps (John Morgensen)
31. 05:35 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
32. 06:15 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Brian Kraut)
33. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Paul Besing)
34. 06:34 PM - Re: Heat boxes for RV-4 (Paul Besing)
35. 06:45 PM - Re: nonskid for steps (Dave B)
36. 07:58 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Bob J.)
Message 1
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HI guys and gals-
This is not absolutely purely RV related, so purists please delete now!
I was talking to a friend a while back about riveting. He is building one
of Monett's products, which is built almost exclusively with pulled rivets.
The only solid rivets are the big ones in the spar center section. What my
friend learned at a Monett factory seminar is to put the factory head in a
rivet set on an anvil and smack the shop end with a hammer. I believe they
were to use some sort of a striking bar or block to transfer the blow, but
I don't recall that detail perfectly at this point. Anyway, what my friend
was told at this seminar is that one of the various reasons for doing this
is that this technique will properly set the rivet in fewer blows than
using a rivet gun, and that this in turn would lessen the work hardening of
the rivet.
This is not an intuitive conclusion for me, and I was wondering what the
metallurgists / professional metal workers / other smart folks out there
think?
As a morsel for those purists who haven't already deleted, if this is a
valid point, perhaps we could make ever so slightly tougher structures by
using higher gun pressures while riveting.
Thoughts?
BTW, I ZnCrO3 most things, glued my canopy, have a constant speed, IFR
panel, and the little wheel is in the back... ;-)
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
Thanks for the excellent info! Good job!
>For those of you who asked, I've added the complete prodedure for
installing
>the wingtips with hinges to my ExperCraft website- go to:
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
My 496 has started to do the same thing.? Internal battery is fine, at least it
shows full and will run on battery power.? I have it panel mounted (AirGizmo)
and hooked up to ships power.? Based on the log it seems to stop the internal
clock a day or two after the last shut-down.? Upon restart, it will not lock
the satellites as it thinks it is a prior date.? I do not think it could be the
almanac, it has something to do with the internal clock shutting down.? The
almanac is useless if the GPS does not know what the actual date.?
My shop just checked it out and loaded the latest update (that's what they think
it is).? They also purged a lot of the logs to free up memory, which did sound
like a good idea.? If the date is wrong the next time I fly, and based upon
the reports I'm hearing, then I think (we) Garmin has a software/hardware issue
that they need to address.
Anyone else having similar problems??
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: David Burton <d-burton@comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 7:49 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
?
I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's location
almost every weekend - for sure if?I miss a weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min
to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at least it's still
useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times and their drill is
to get the latest software update and to purge the satellite almanac. Power up
while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will flush the almanac (at least for
the 396) and then leave it on in the open for 30-45 minutes to download a new
one. That has not cured my problem so they tell me the next step is to send
it in for the $350 flat rate repair... aaarrggghhh!
?
Bummer.? One of our 430s had the same issue after we got it back from sending it
in for the WAAS upgrade and it had to go back to the factory.? Fortunately it
was under warranty.? Any chance the internal battery is losing its steam?? Does
anybody know if the battery pack contributes to holding memory while the power
is off?
?
DaveB
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I haven't flown much over the last few years and my Garmin 296 has proably
only been on about a dozen flight altogether. The last one was last July. i
fired it up the other day and it thought it was September. However as soon
as it acquired satellites, the date was adjusted.
Is there any possibility there's an antenna problem and not a battery
problem?
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
My 496 has started to do the same thing. Internal battery is fine, at least
it shows full and will run on battery power. I have it panel mounted
(AirGizmo) and hooked up to ships power. Based on the log it seems to stop
the internal clock a day or two after the last shut-down. Upon restart, it
will not lock the satellites as it thinks it is a prior date. I do not
think it could be the almanac, it has something to do with the internal
clock shutting down. The almanac is useless if the GPS does not know what
the actual date.
My shop just checked it out and loaded the latest update (that's what they
think it is). They also purged a lot of the logs to free up memory, which
did sound like a good idea. If the date is wrong the next time I fly, and
based upon the reports I'm hearing, then I think (we) Garmin has a
software/hardware issue that they need to address.
Anyone else having similar problems?
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: David Burton <d-burton@comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 7:49 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's
location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a weekend flying. It
takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at
least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times
and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge the
satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will
flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open
for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so
they tell me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...
aaarrggghhh!
Bummer. One of our 430s had the same issue after we got it back from
sending it in for the WAAS upgrade and it had to go back to the factory.
Fortunately it was under warranty. Any chance the internal battery is
losing its steam? Does anybody know if the battery pack contributes to
holding memory while the power is off?
DaveB
_____
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=ao
lcmp00050000000003> !
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Custom tank builder |
Removing the access plates, senders, etc., is a fairly straightforward
job with the tanks still attached. One thing to consider is that many
builders have had problems with the access plates leaking if the plates
were installed with anything other than proseal. On mine, I initially
used proseal and cork gaskets (had to make 'em, Van's didn't supply them
back in the day), and they held up well until I destroyed 'em complying
with the fuel pick-up SB. When I replaced the covers, I did not use
gaskets and just resealed with proseal. My personal belief is that a
proseal only installation is preferred.
Kyle Boatright
2001 RV-6
----- Original Message -----
From: John Morgensen
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Custom tank builder
Really dumb question... Do you take the tanks off of the wing first or
do it in place?
John Morgensen
Doug Weiler wrote:
I have done this a couple times.
Carefully remove the tank cover with a wide blade putty knife. Remove
sending unit.
Clean all mating areas very well with lacquer thinner.
Assuming the plate is not went or warped, get a new cork gasket from
Van's.
Get a new gasket for the new sending unit also.
Be sure everything is very clean (PPG wax and greaser remover is good.
Also
Dupont 3812S reducer or Coleman Lantern Fuel).
Seal all mating surfaces with PermaTex Aviation Form a Gasket (get it at
your auto supply store). Use all new cork gaskets.
Remount the sending unit and the larger tank cover using socket cap
screws
and washer. DO not over tighten them.. Just snug them up.
Let the tanks sit for a couple days before reinstallation.
I have never had a leak using Aviation Form A Gasket.
Doug Weiler
RV-4, N722DW, 450 hours
On 1/18/08 5:39 PM, "Louis Willig" <larywil@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi gang
While we're on the subject of tanks...
Mine has leaked from day one. Eight years ago. Every so often, like
at annual time, I clean off the offending area and the A&P smears
some goo on the leaking area. Well, its time to take the tank off and
remove the leaking plate and maybe replace the sending unit. I have
never done this. Is this a big job? Can any of you give me some
suggestions? Like what to watch out for.
Thank in advance.
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF, 650 hrs.
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I do not see how it could be the antenna.? In my case (G496), it is looking for
the satellites just fine, but it takes a long time because its looking for them
in the wrong parts of the sky because it thinks the date & time are something
they are not.? Once it gets an update?to the internal clock (from one of the
satellites it eventually finds) it can reference the almanac and then find the
correct constellations of satellites.? After that is pretty quickly get back
to square one and starts working...at least until it is shutdown again for more
than a few days.
I started noticing this behavior back in July.? Any others?
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 8:58 am
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
I haven't flown much over the last few years and my Garmin 296 has proably only
been on about a dozen flight altogether. The last one was last July. i fired
it up the other day and it thought it was September. However as soon as it acquired
satellites, the date was adjusted.
?
Is there any possibility there's an antenna problem and not a battery problem?
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darnpilot@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
My 496 has started to do the same thing.? Internal battery is fine, at least it
shows full and will run on battery power.? I have it panel mounted (AirGizmo)
and hooked up to ships power.? Based on the log it seems to stop the internal
clock a day or two after the last shut-down.? Upon restart, it will not lock
the satellites as it thinks it is a prior date.? I do not think it could be the
almanac, it has something to do with the internal clock shutting down.? The
almanac is useless if the GPS does not know what the actual date.?
My shop just checked it out and loaded the latest update (that's what they think
it is).? They also purged a lot of the logs to free up memory, which did sound
like a good idea.? If the date is wrong the next time I fly, and based upon
the reports I'm hearing, then I think (we) Garmin has a software/hardware issue
that they need to address.
Anyone else having similar problems??
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: David Burton <d-burton@comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 7:49 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
?
I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's location
almost every weekend - for sure if?I miss a weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min
to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at least it's still
useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times and their drill is
to get the latest software update and to purge the satellite almanac. Power up
while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will flush the almanac (at least for
the 396) and then leave it on in the open for 30-45 minutes to download a new
one. That has not cured my problem so they tell me the next step is to send
it in for the $350 flat rate repair... aaarrggghhh!
?
Bummer.? One of our 430s had the same issue after we got it back from sending it
in for the WAAS upgrade and it had to go back to the factory.? Fortunately it
was under warranty.? Any chance the internal battery is losing its steam?? Does
anybody know if the battery pack contributes to holding memory while the power
is off?
?
DaveB
?
?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Nope. Antennas are not the problem- the unit sees the birds fine- it's just
looking for all the wrong ones at first, based on the almanac and the faulty
date/time. I'm baffled how a device that depends on ultra-precise time
measurements to do its job can't keep time as well as a five dollar Chinese
wristwatch when it's in standby mode. Garmin does seem to have an issue,
here.
-Stormy
On Jan 19, 2008 8:58 AM, Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
> I haven't flown much over the last few years and my Garmin 296 has
> proably only been on about a dozen flight altogether. The last one was last
> July. i fired it up the other day and it thought it was September. However
> as soon as it acquired satellites, the date was adjusted.
>
> Is there any possibility there's an antenna problem and not a battery
> problem?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *darnpilot@aol.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:37 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
>
> My 496 has started to do the same thing. Internal battery is fine, at
> least it shows full and will run on battery power. I have it panel mounted
> (AirGizmo) and hooked up to ships power. Based on the log it seems to stop
> the internal clock a day or two after the last shut-down. Upon restart, it
> will not lock the satellites as it thinks it is a prior date. I do not
> think it could be the almanac, it has something to do with the internal
> clock shutting down. The almanac is useless if the GPS does not know what
> the actual date.
>
> My shop just checked it out and loaded the latest update (that's what they
> think it is). They also purged a lot of the logs to free up memory, which
> did sound like a good idea. If the date is wrong the next time I fly, and
> based upon the reports I'm hearing, then I think (we) Garmin has a
> software/hardware issue that they need to address.
>
> Anyone else having similar problems?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Burton <d-burton@comcast.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 7:49 pm
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
>
>
> I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's
> location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a weekend flying. It
> takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at
> least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times
> and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge the
> satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will
> flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open
> for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so
> they tell me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...
> aaarrggghhh!
>
> Bummer. One of our 430s had the same issue after we got it back from
> sending it in for the WAAS upgrade and it had to go back to the factory.
> Fortunately it was under warranty. Any chance the internal battery is
> losing its steam? Does anybody know if the battery pack contributes to
> holding memory while the power is off?
>
> DaveB
>
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> ------------------------------
> !
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
You might want to see if one of your nav/coms is interferring. My Com2
interfers w/ my handheld when it's on a certain freq range (around 115.+-)
You might try this. When your GPS looses position, try watching your GPS
signal strength page as you turn each avionics unit.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
I'm guessing the APRS hardware I am using (gps and 8 watt tracker, with its
homemade circuit-board (copperclad) enclosure) wieghs about 3 ounces or so.
Without an external battery, there is no point in removing it from the ship,
and I have not made provisions for that. If your crash site is too remote
to allow people to see the wreckage from town, it may also be too remote to
hit a digipeater from the ground with low power ;-) there is no way to tell
but to try it, and with transmit-only hardware, no way to know if you are
being digipeated. It certainly has its limits.
-Stormy
On Jan 18, 2008 11:52 PM, Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca> wrote:
>
> On 19:07 2008-01-18 "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think the only real advantage that APRS might have over SPOT is the
> > cost (free once you have the tracker). Well, fully implemented APRS,
> > which I don't have and don't plan to set up in the plane, would allow
> > two-way text messaging - I think the SPOT only allows one way.
>
> That's correct, and it's the one minor downside to the SPOT system.
> Messaging is one-way, and you have only three messages you can send ("I'm
> OK", "Friends, I need help", and "Send the cavalry", effectively). The
> major downside, as you point out, is the yearly cost.
>
> What's the weight of the hardware necessary for APRS? How easy would it
> be
> to remove from a downed plane if you needed to and/or decided to leave the
> crash site? One benefit of SPOT over ELT is that if you need to move, you
> can bring the beacon with you and trackers will know that you've moved and
> know where you are.
>
> -Rob
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Not likely.? My installation worked perfectly up until July of this year (no changes
were made).? Since July, it has frozen the time shortly (within a day or
two) after shutdown.? There is something going on internally...software or hardware.?
Since I do not seem to be the only one, I must conclude that this is
not an uncommon occurrence and there is a larger problem that Garmin has to address.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: J Riffel <riffeljl@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:00 am
Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location
You might want to see if one of your nav/coms is interferring.? My Com2 interfers
w/ my handheld when it's on a certain freq range (around 115.+-)
?
You might try this. When your GPS looses position, try watching your GPS signal
strength page?as you turn each avionics unit.
?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 11
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Hello again,
I mis-worded my question. It should have said,"how do you remove a tank?"
I think most of us would have a tough time working on a plate with
the tank still on the wing. It could be done, maybe, but I think it's
time for me to take the tank off and do a good job on the leaks,
replace the sender, and comply with the fuel sender SB. So... since I
didn't build my RV-4, I am asking for advice in removing the tank.
I'm pretty sure I'll have to use a razor blade around certain edges
to avoid chipping the paint. I know to drain the tank. Are there any
other pitfalls? Any other tips?
The rest of the advice about removing and replacing the plate(s), I
have printed out in LARGE PRINT on my work sheets. I should have
asked for that advice also, but my first objective is to remove the tank.
To those of you who have posted suggestions, keep on doing it! There
are plenty of us doing this for the first time, and there is plenty
of up-to-date solutions that we are unaware of. The archives are
great, but it can be like a safari through the Congo trying to find
what you really need. Thanks again.
Louis
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
Subject: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation
Mark Phillips describes a very nice improvement for wingtip installation,
but just consider what it would be like with none of those rivet holes to
drill (think less work), to see in the paint job or to work loose over time
with vibration. If you use graphite hinges, the job becomes really simple
comparatively speaking. The same principal holds true for the cowls.
http://carbinge.com/wingtips.htm
http://carbinge.com/cowl_attach.htm
To avoid drilling a bunch of rivet holes in the wing skin, think of using a
minimum number of rivets (two on either end) and using Hysol adhesive with
clamps to Bond the hinge half to the inside of the wing skin. Then the
hinge is reassembled, the wing tip set carefully to place and cleco holes
are drilled in the composite wing tip and through the hinge. Hysol is then
used to bond this half of the hinge to the inside of the wingtip. The cleco
holes are later filled and they disappear!
Carbinge Keepers are an ingenious method of securing the pin (wire) in place
so that you don't have to devise complicated or unsightly security
mechanisms. You simply screw them to place once they are installed and
forever after installing or removing your wing tip or cowl is a slam dunk
simple job with no chance for dinging up your paint job.
http://carbinge.com/Keepers.htm
Mark mentions 450 hours of flight time with no problems on his airplane.
That's impressive and we can vouch for his results as we have cowling
applications in Lancair IVP's that have well over 1,000 hours of flight time
with no service required.
We have been supplying Carbinge to builders for about 9 years and Carbinge
Keepers have been available for about five years.
Regards,
John Barrett, CEO
Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com
7:32 PM
7:32 PM
Message 13
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I'm not a metallurgist. But as an engineer I'm guessing that the technique
described will increase a rivet's strength by just a very few percent. It
strikes me as something that a perfectionist would want, but an engineer
would disdain as not being worth the trouble, given the highly redundant
strength of our multiple rivets already. Obviously lots of planes have and
are flown built with rivet guns so I'm sticking with that. And I would not
start experimenting with different rivet gun pressures and so forth! Do
your experiments on something harmless unless you have formal education and
plenty of experience in the area.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 4:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: rivet hardening
HI guys and gals-
This is not absolutely purely RV related, so purists please delete now!
I was talking to a friend a while back about riveting. He is building one
of Monett's products, which is built almost exclusively with pulled rivets.
The only solid rivets are the big ones in the spar center section. What my
friend learned at a Monett factory seminar is to put the factory head in a
rivet set on an anvil and smack the shop end with a hammer. I believe they
were to use some sort of a striking bar or block to transfer the blow, but I
don't recall that detail perfectly at this point. Anyway, what my friend
was told at this seminar is that one of the various reasons for doing this
is that this technique will properly set the rivet in fewer blows than using
a rivet gun, and that this in turn would lessen the work hardening of the
rivet.
This is not an intuitive conclusion for me, and I was wondering what the
metallurgists / professional metal workers / other smart folks out there
think?
As a morsel for those purists who haven't already deleted, if this is a
valid point, perhaps we could make ever so slightly tougher structures by
using higher gun pressures while riveting.
Thoughts?
BTW, I ZnCrO3 most things, glued my canopy, have a constant speed, IFR
panel, and the little wheel is in the back... ;-)
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 14
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Hi Glen,
This is a real issue. We don't see it much with 99% of our little rivets
but driving the big ones in the spars is where we would. I drove my spar
rivets with a small sledge hammer using my C-frame. It worked great but I
had to really smack the rivet hard to have the least number of hits. They
definitely got harder to drive each time you hit them. I don't think that
it's a strength issue with work hardening but cracking and failure to flow
to fill the hole and form a good shop head.
DavdB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 4:43 AM
Subject: RV-List: rivet hardening
HI guys and gals-
This is not absolutely purely RV related, so purists please delete now!
I was talking to a friend a while back about riveting. He is building one
of Monett's products, which is built almost exclusively with pulled rivets.
The only solid rivets are the big ones in the spar center section. What my
friend learned at a Monett factory seminar is to put the factory head in a
rivet set on an anvil and smack the shop end with a hammer. I believe they
were to use some sort of a striking bar or block to transfer the blow, but
I don't recall that detail perfectly at this point. Anyway, what my friend
was told at this seminar is that one of the various reasons for doing this
is that this technique will properly set the rivet in fewer blows than
using a rivet gun, and that this in turn would lessen the work hardening of
the rivet.
This is not an intuitive conclusion for me, and I was wondering what the
metallurgists / professional metal workers / other smart folks out there
think?
As a morsel for those purists who haven't already deleted, if this is a
valid point, perhaps we could make ever so slightly tougher structures by
using higher gun pressures while riveting.
Thoughts?
BTW, I ZnCrO3 most things, glued my canopy, have a constant speed, IFR
panel, and the little wheel is in the back... ;-)
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
A possible serious negative of APRS is coverage in mountainous/western
areas.
I think that Spot is going to win out in coverage.
As far as 2-way texting...it sounds good but to me the most important
element
is notification of the need for help/rescue.
Plus Spot is "off the shelf"
Ron Lee
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Custom tank builder |
I took the tanks off and really felt it was not a big issue. BTW, I
initially used Proseal when I built my RV-4 to seal the tanks and they
leaked (probably my installation process). Other in the area had used Form
A Gasket with 100% success and that is what I used when I resealed the tanks
after the SB requirement.
Doug
On 1/18/08 10:34 PM, "John Morgensen" <john@morgensen.com> wrote:
> Really dumb question... Do you take the tanks off of the wing first or do it
> in place?
>
> John Morgensen
>
> Doug Weiler wrote:
>>
>> <mailto:dcw@mnwing.org>
>>
>> I have done this a couple times.
>>
>> Carefully remove the tank cover with a wide blade putty knife. Remove
>> sending unit.
>>
>> Clean all mating areas very well with lacquer thinner.
>>
>> Assuming the plate is not went or warped, get a new cork gasket from Van's.
>> Get a new gasket for the new sending unit also.
>>
>> Be sure everything is very clean (PPG wax and greaser remover is good. Also
>> Dupont 3812S reducer or Coleman Lantern Fuel).
>>
>> Seal all mating surfaces with PermaTex Aviation Form a Gasket (get it at
>> your auto supply store). Use all new cork gaskets.
>>
>> Remount the sending unit and the larger tank cover using socket cap screws
>> and washer. DO not over tighten them.. Just snug them up.
>>
>> Let the tanks sit for a couple days before reinstallation.
>>
>> I have never had a leak using Aviation Form A Gasket.
>>
>> Doug Weiler
>> RV-4, N722DW, 450 hours
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/18/08 5:39 PM, "Louis Willig" <larywil@comcast.net>
>> <mailto:larywil@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> <mailto:larywil@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Hi gang
>>>
>>> While we're on the subject of tanks...
>>>
>>> Mine has leaked from day one. Eight years ago. Every so often, like
>>> at annual time, I clean off the offending area and the A&P smears
>>> some goo on the leaking area. Well, its time to take the tank off and
>>> remove the leaking plate and maybe replace the sending unit. I have
>>> never done this. Is this a big job? Can any of you give me some
>>> suggestions? Like what to watch out for.
>>>
>>> Thank in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Louis I Willig
>>> 1640 Oakwood Dr.
>>> Penn Valley, PA 19072
>>> 610 668-4964
>>> RV-4, N180PF, 650 hrs.
>>> 190HP IO-360, C/S prop
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
One consideration if you don't think the continued subscription costs of the
Spot system sounds attractive is to rent one when taking a trip that puts
you over wilderness areas. Satellite phone stores rent phones for trips
like this and they also rent Spots... your choice.
DaveB
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
Very nice, sure beats my 32? screws, but seems I have read that
graphite/carbon cloth can cause aluminum to corrode. Is not one end of the
hinge sandwiched between rib and wing skin?
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Barrett" <2thman@cablespeed.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation
>
> Subject: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation
>
> Mark Phillips describes a very nice improvement for wingtip installation,
> but just consider what it would be like with none of those rivet holes to
> drill (think less work), to see in the paint job or to work loose over
> time
> with vibration. If you use graphite hinges, the job becomes really simple
> comparatively speaking. The same principal holds true for the cowls.
>
> http://carbinge.com/wingtips.htm
>
> http://carbinge.com/cowl_attach.htm
>
>
> To avoid drilling a bunch of rivet holes in the wing skin, think of using
> a
> minimum number of rivets (two on either end) and using Hysol adhesive with
> clamps to Bond the hinge half to the inside of the wing skin. Then the
> hinge is reassembled, the wing tip set carefully to place and cleco holes
> are drilled in the composite wing tip and through the hinge. Hysol is
> then
> used to bond this half of the hinge to the inside of the wingtip. The
> cleco
> holes are later filled and they disappear!
>
> Carbinge Keepers are an ingenious method of securing the pin (wire) in
> place
> so that you don't have to devise complicated or unsightly security
> mechanisms. You simply screw them to place once they are installed and
> forever after installing or removing your wing tip or cowl is a slam dunk
> simple job with no chance for dinging up your paint job.
>
> http://carbinge.com/Keepers.htm
>
>
> Mark mentions 450 hours of flight time with no problems on his airplane.
> That's impressive and we can vouch for his results as we have cowling
> applications in Lancair IVP's that have well over 1,000 hours of flight
> time
> with no service required.
>
> We have been supplying Carbinge to builders for about 9 years and Carbinge
> Keepers have been available for about five years.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John Barrett, CEO
> Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc.
> PO Box 428
> Port Hadlock, WA 98339
> www.carbinge.com
>
>
> 7:32 PM
>
>
> 7:32 PM
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Look into internal battery replacement. I can't say that it is the
cause but
it may be a reasonable factor.
Ron Lee
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: rivet hardening |
On 19-Jan-08, at 10:54 , David Burton wrote:
>
> I drove my spar
> rivets with a small sledge hammer using my C-frame. It worked great
> but I
> had to really smack the rivet hard to have the least number of
> hits. They
> definitely got harder to drive each time you hit them.
The "getting harder to drive each time you hit them" isn't only due to
work hardening. The diameter of the shop head increases as you drive
the rivet, so it takes a harder and harder force to cause the metal to
move as you progress.
Given that there are over 5000 RVs flying that were built with the
traditional rivet gun method, and they aren't falling out of the sky,
I wouldn't worry about this, unless you are driving the big rivets on
a main wing spar. Those rivets either need a big rivet run, or a
hammer. The 3X or 2X gun used on the rest of the project won't cut
it, and most folks aren't prepared to purchase another rivet gun for
just that task. So out comes the hammer.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
OK...is there an internal battery other than the rechargeable one?? If there is,
then I agree.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
Look into internal battery replacement.? I can't say that it is the cause but
it may be a reasonable factor.
?
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Tanks |
Louis Willig wrote:
>
> Hello again,
>
> I mis-worded my question. It should have said,"how do you remove a tank?"
>
> I think most of us would have a tough time working on a plate with the
> tank still on the wing. It could be done, maybe, but I think it's time
> for me to take the tank off and do a good job on the leaks, replace the
> sender, and comply with the fuel sender SB. So... since I didn't build
> my RV-4, I am asking for advice in removing the tank. I'm pretty sure
> I'll have to use a razor blade around certain edges to avoid chipping
> the paint. I know to drain the tank. Are there any other pitfalls? Any
> other tips?
>
> The rest of the advice about removing and replacing the plate(s), I have
> printed out in LARGE PRINT on my work sheets. I should have asked for
> that advice also, but my first objective is to remove the tank.
>
> To those of you who have posted suggestions, keep on doing it! There are
> plenty of us doing this for the first time, and there is plenty of
> up-to-date solutions that we are unaware of. The archives are great, but
> it can be like a safari through the Congo trying to find what you really
> need. Thanks again.
>
> Louis
>
I had to disconnect the fuel line on both ends so it could be retracted
into the fuselage slightly. I had to move the tank toward the fuselage
slightly to get it off and there's the back flange of the inboard rib to
deal with also; that's why I had to move the fuel line.
I used popsicle sticks to spread the back flanges slightly so that the
dimples wouldn't hang on the countersinks in the spar flanges. A thin
blade like a small putty knife can be used to lift the flanges to insert
the sticks.
It was a little bit of a chore to get the tank started, but fairly easy
after that to remove it. I think I used a small pry bar between the back
of the tank & the spar to get it started. I did it alone, with a
rigged-up padded platform under the tank in case it tried to fall.
I think that I used thin cardboard or plastic sheet to protect the spar
flanges when I re-installed the tank. Hard to explain in words, but it
was easier to spread the flange & insert multiple sticks to remove the
tank & easier to use a continuous strip of sheet material while pushing
the flanges back over the spar during re-installation.
Hope that helps,
Charlie
flying -4, -7 finish kit on order
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
In a message dated 01/18/2008 11:08:13 PM Central Standard Time,
smithhb@tds.net writes:
I'll even slap some road kill on the grill and feed ya! How 'bout it?
As long as it ain't Possum...
8-)
Mark - do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 24
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| Subject: | nonskid for steps |
What material do you put on the optional steps to make them non-skid? I
assume wing walk material. If so, anyone have a source for a small piece? I
ordered the RV wing walks from Van's so I don't have any extra material.
Don Mack | don@dmack.net | www.dmack.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I don't know. I just removed the AA batteries for about eight minutes
and when I put
new ones in and checked the time (inside under a desk to prevent signal
acquisition),
the time was to within a second of my PC time. That suggests another
power source.
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: darnpilot@aol.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
OK...is there an internal battery other than the rechargeable one? If
there is, then I agree.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
Look into internal battery replacement. I can't say that it is the
cause but
it may be a reasonable factor.
Ron Lee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
In a message dated 01/18/2008 7:46:08 PM Central Standard Time,
MLWynn@aol.com writes:
I will let you know how mine come out.
Thanks- let me know if you come up with any improvements as you go and I'll
update the instructions!
Mark do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: nonskid for steps |
Something like this may work:
http://tinyurl.com/2aktnv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mack" <don@dmack.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: nonskid for steps
>
> What material do you put on the optional steps to make them non-skid? I
> assume wing walk material. If so, anyone have a source for a small piece?
> I
> ordered the RV wing walks from Van's so I don't have any extra material.
>
> Don Mack | don@dmack.net | www.dmack.net
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: nonskid for steps |
In a message dated 01/19/2008 6:10:05 PM Central Standard Time, don@dmack.net
writes:
What material do you put on the optional steps to make them non-skid?
>>>
You can order the stick-on stuff by the foot, or paint from the usual
suspects (Spruce/Wicks/etc.) You could also investigate Lowes Depot or Wallyworld
for non-skid strips for tubs & showers. I did something a bit different for my
plane if you are looking to do it during painting:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5276_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5276)
>From The PossumWorks in TN,
Mark
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 29
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| Subject: | nonskid for steps |
Try the Aviation Department of your local Home Despot or Lowes. Tape for
stair treads. Another option would be grip tape for skate boards.
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: nonskid for steps |
Skate Board Tape... aka grip tape... aka stair tread tape...
john
Don Mack wrote:
>
> What material do you put on the optional steps to make them non-skid? I
> assume wing walk material. If so, anyone have a source for a small piece? I
> ordered the RV wing walks from Van's so I don't have any extra material.
>
> Don Mack | don@dmack.net | www.dmack.net
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I just removed the AA batteries for an hour and the time was within
about
two seconds of my PC time. This is in a Garmin eTrex unit.
Ron Lee
Message 32
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| Subject: | Garmin 296/396 losing location |
A lot of GPSs have small lithium coin cells in them. They are good for
about 5 years. The real problem with them is after they get real old they
can leak and corrode the circuit boards.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:31 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
I just removed the AA batteries for an hour and the time was within about
two seconds of my PC time. This is in a Garmin eTrex unit.
Ron Lee
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Send it to them if you can't figure it out..their service is excellent..they turned
mine around in a few days, installed a new screen (mine had a small scratch)
and even gave me a new Jeppesen database. No charge, and no questions asked!
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: "darnpilot@aol.com" <darnpilot@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:27:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location
Not likely. My installation worked perfectly up until July of this year (no changes
were made). Since July, it has frozen the time shortly (within a day or
two) after shutdown. There is something going on internally...software or hardware.
Since I do not seem to be the only one, I must conclude that this is
not an uncommon occurrence and there is a larger problem that Garmin has to address.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: J Riffel <riffeljl@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:00 am
Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location
You might want to see if one of your nav/coms is interferring. My Com2 interfers
w/ my handheld when it's on a certain freq range (around 115.+-)
You might try this. When your GPS looses position, try watching your GPS signal
strength page as you turn each avionics unit.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Heat boxes for RV-4 |
Update....installed and flew the "Y" selector box from Van's. Works as advertised.
I just use one part of it, only using one cable. The heat works with my
robbins muff, but isn't as warm as I would like. I don't fault the selector
box for that, just the airflow/springs/etc etc that have been in the archives.
Just need the right volume of air/temperature combination.
Recommend the "Y" box.works perfectly. I can't see a need for the second valve
they include with it. I left mine out. Also, I have it plumbed directly into
my air vents on either side, just below the panel.
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: "halbenjamin@optonline.net" <halbenjamin@optonline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 8:16:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
Thanks Paul.
Hal Benjamin
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> Not yet...but it's dead center behind the engine, about 4-6
> inches from the top of the firewall. That goes into a box on
> the cabin side of the firewall with two outlets going to the air
> vents.
> I will try to get some pics soon.
>
> Paul Besing
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "halbenjamin@optonline.net"
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:42:01 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
>
> I'm working figuring out where to install all this stuff on the
> firewall, do you have any pictures of your installation?
>
>
>
> Hal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Besing
> Date: Monday, January 7, 2008 10:51 am
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
> > Installation was pretty easy. I had a scat tube running from
> > the baffles to the firewall, into a box that splits to two
> scat
> > tubes going to the air vents, just below the panel on either
> > side of the fuselage. I simply plugged that box into the
> > firewall box, connected a cable and the heater tube. Haven't
> > used it yet, so I'm not sure how it's gonna work, but should
> be
> > flying in a few days.
> >
> > My biggest concern is there is no place to vent the heat
> > overboard. It's going to pre heat the mixer tube I imagine,
> > which might effect the temperature of cool air going in..
> We'll see.
> >
> > Paul Besing
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>
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| Subject: | Re: nonskid for steps |
If you have Van's wingwalks, they feature "push out" letters that spell
RV6,7,etc, just use that material for your steps.
Dave
Don Mack wrote:
>
> What material do you put on the optional steps to make them non-skid? I
> assume wing walk material. If so, anyone have a source for a small piece? I
> ordered the RV wing walks from Van's so I don't have any extra material.
>
> Don Mack | don@dmack.net | www.dmack.net
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I don't know about the 396 but I had the same problem with a Garmin GPS III
Pilot. There is a coin size battery which is epoxied to the inside of the
case with leads going to the circuit board. This battery keeps the real
time clock powered when the main batteries are discharged. My battery went
bad and every time the GPS was powered down it would lose track of the
almanac, even though I had fresh AA batteries in it. I didn't look at the
board to see how the coin battery is charged but I found a replacement and
fixed mine. I suspect the 396 also has an internal coin-sized battery for
the RTC and yours is probably dead also.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On Jan 18, 2008 6:36 PM, Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> wrote:
> I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's
> location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a weekend flying. It
> takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at
> least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times
> and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge the
> satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will
> flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open
> for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so
> they tell me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...
> aaarrggghhh!
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT
>
> Replying to my own post, here- too many things wrong with the flight so I
> stood down. Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto more than 2 birds, and thought
> the local time was 11:36 AM, so it acts like the internal battery is going
> south (flown as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine on the
> bench using just its own battery, as I write this. Directional control on
> the snow was awful, even though there was lots of grass showing - just too
> much cover. I think I packed the wheel pants with snow in short order. I
> couldn't even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without sliding. When I
> was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and still hadn't broken
> ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot in a crosswind (gulp!) I balked the
> takeoff. Barely had enough braking action to execute a 180 within the width
> of the strip.
>
> This is disappointing, since I wanted to fly tonight and wanted to demo
> the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for decision making. Even if I had had
> hull coverage I don't think I could have felt good about completing that
> takeoff, knowing I'd have to return to that same runway in a few minutes
> and try to stop safely, possibly with frozen brake pads. The weather is
> supposed to turn here tonight, so that was probably my one window to fly for
> the next week or two. Snow expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top
> of that. Should stay mushy out there till about April even if the snow
> dissipates. Some days are like that.
>
> I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS again. Meanwhile
> I'm going to have harsh words with my 296.
>
> -Stormy
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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