Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Re: rivet hardening (glen matejcek)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Bill Boyd)
3. 06:56 AM - nonskid for steps (James H Nelson)
4. 07:24 AM - Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (John Barrett)
5. 07:54 AM - 296/396 lossing location (Charles Heathco)
6. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation (Ed Anderson)
7. 09:35 AM - Re: 296/396 lossing location (Ron Lee)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
10. 11:27 AM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (David Burton)
11. 12:46 PM - APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (Bill Boyd)
12. 12:51 PM - Rivit hardening (Emrath)
13. 01:18 PM - Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (Bill Boyd)
14. 01:34 PM - Re: Rivit hardening (Richard Dudley)
15. 01:47 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Bill Boyd)
16. 01:48 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (David Burton)
17. 01:49 PM - Mechanical Fuel Pump Troubleshooting (Rob Underwood)
18. 02:29 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Charlie England)
19. 02:43 PM - Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT (Larry Bowen)
20. 02:57 PM - Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position (Bob Collins)
21. 04:14 PM - Re: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position (David Burton)
22. 05:15 PM - Re: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
23. 05:52 PM - Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location (Ron Lee)
24. 06:15 PM - Sun Visors (Dan Ross)
25. 06:33 PM - Back to the scrap bins (Ralph E. Capen)
26. 08:04 PM - Left OVers for Sale (Jeff Linebaugh)
27. 09:13 PM - Re: Mechanical Fuel Pump Troubleshooting (Danny)
28. 11:30 PM - Re: Sun Visors (mike humphrey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: rivet hardening |
HI Ralph-
Re: But as an engineer I'm guessing that the technique
> described will increase a rivet's strength by just a very few percent. It
> strikes me as something that a perfectionist would want, but an engineer
> would disdain as not being worth the trouble, given the highly redundant
> strength of our multiple rivets already. Obviously lots of planes have
and
> are flown built with rivet guns so I'm sticking with that. And I would
not
> start experimenting with different rivet gun pressures and so forth! Do
> your experiments on something harmless unless you have formal education
and
> plenty of experience in the area.
I think perhaps you might have misunderstood my comments and question. I
wouldn't suggest folks start building RV's with hammers, and I have no
concerns about the strength of the 5K+ RV's out there. It's an issue of
gaining / verifying a bit of knowledge and exploring it's application.
Upping the gun air pressure somewhat isn't all that big a deal. Forgetting
you have full line pressure on tap after a drilling operation and then
trying to shoot a rivet can have less than pleasing results, er, or so I've
been told ;-)
Personally, I've come to prefer using higher pressures than Van's
recommends. As far as the part about formal education and experience
goes... well... if there were a riveting contest held between an average
A&P and an average homebuilder, I know where I'd put my money!
>
> Hi Glen,
Hi Dave!
> This is a real issue. We don't see it much with 99% of our little rivets
> but driving the big ones in the spars is where we would. I drove my spar
> rivets with a small sledge hammer using my C-frame. It worked great but I
> had to really smack the rivet hard to have the least number of hits. They
> definitely got harder to drive each time you hit them. I don't think that
> it's a strength issue with work hardening but cracking and failure to flow
> to fill the hole and form a good shop head.
>
Interesting. In the conversation I had on the topic, it was presented as
relevant to all rivets. Perhaps the intent was that it was preferable to
use a hammer on rivets that would be a challenge for the average
homebuilder's rivet gun. Thanks for the clarification.
HI Kevin-
> Given that there are over 5000 RVs flying that were built with the
> traditional rivet gun method, and they aren't falling out of the sky,
> I wouldn't worry about this, unless you are driving the big rivets on
> a main wing spar. Those rivets either need a big rivet run, or a
> hammer. The 3X or 2X gun used on the rest of the project won't cut
> it, and most folks aren't prepared to purchase another rivet gun for
> just that task. So out comes the hammer.
>
Makes sense!
Thanks to all-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Good thought. Any problem with opening these things up for user service
(besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to
mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?
-Stormy
On Jan 19, 2008 10:54 PM, Bob J. <rocketbob@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about the 396 but I had the same problem with a Garmin GPS
> III Pilot. There is a coin size battery which is epoxied to the inside of
> the case with leads going to the circuit board. This battery keeps the real
> time clock powered when the main batteries are discharged. My battery went
> bad and every time the GPS was powered down it would lose track of the
> almanac, even though I had fresh AA batteries in it. I didn't look at the
> board to see how the coin battery is charged but I found a replacement and
> fixed mine. I suspect the 396 also has an internal coin-sized battery for
> the RTC and yours is probably dead also.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const.
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 6:36 PM, Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> wrote:
>
> > I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396 loses it's
> > location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a weekend flying. It
> > takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to use a new location - but at
> > least it's still useable. I've talked to Garmin tech support a couple times
> > and their drill is to get the latest software update and to purge the
> > satellite almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec will
> > flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it on in the open
> > for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has not cured my problem so
> > they tell me the next step is to send it in for the $350 flat rate repair...
> > aaarrggghhh!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg Young
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> > owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> > *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM
> > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT
> >
> > Replying to my own post, here- too many things wrong with the flight so
> > I stood down. Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto more than 2 birds, and thought
> > the local time was 11:36 AM, so it acts like the internal battery is going
> > south (flown as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine on the
> > bench using just its own battery, as I write this. Directional control on
> > the snow was awful, even though there was lots of grass showing - just too
> > much cover. I think I packed the wheel pants with snow in short order. I
> > couldn't even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without sliding. When
I
> > was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and still hadn't broken
> > ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot in a crosswind (gulp!) I balked the
> > takeoff. Barely had enough braking action to execute a 180 within the width
> > of the strip.
> >
> > This is disappointing, since I wanted to fly tonight and wanted to demo
> > the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for decision making. Even if I had had
> > hull coverage I don't think I could have felt good about completing that
> > takeoff, knowing I'd have to return to that same runway in a few minutes
> > and try to stop safely, possibly with frozen brake pads. The weather is
> > supposed to turn here tonight, so that was probably my one window to fly for
> > the next week or two. Snow expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top
> > of that. Should stay mushy out there till about April even if the snow
> > dissipates. Some days are like that.
> >
> > I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS again. Meanwhile
> > I'm going to have harsh words with my 296.
> >
> > -Stormy
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | nonskid for steps |
Don,
Go to a boat supply store. They sell non-skid material in
different widths. It should be available in white or black. I think I
will use the material on my wings. I used it on my first build. I did
four or five strips in the area where you should step. It is trimmed
with a scissor. It worked very well and stayed put.
Jim
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
ED Anderson wrote:
Very nice, sure beats my 32? screws, but seems I have read that
graphite/carbon cloth can cause aluminum to corrode. Is not one end of the
hinge sandwiched between rib and wing skin?
Ed
****************
That's a good question and one we wrestled with at length in the Lancair
community many years ago. I believe that the Hysol adhesive will largely
act as a buffer between the materials and the resin in the composite
material acts as an additional buffer, but that's not the whole argument and
not necessarily a wise basis for experimenting with your airplane.
One of our members decided to run an experiment since the question arose.
He has a saltwater fish tank and using that he assembled a piece of graphite
clamped against a piece of aluminum and dunked the assembly into the tank
for two weeks. He then pulled the assembly out and inspection revealed that
there was no breakdown of the materials. Since that time the question has
not re emerged and no one has reported deterioration or failure of metals in
proximity to graphite.
Since you ask that question it reminds me that we have considered the
graphite to steel dielectric constant as a potential problem because we have
a steel wire going through the hinge. It just so happens we use a nylon
bearing in the hinge and so there is virtually no touching of the graphite
and steel.
If this answer still leaves one uneasy, there is another solution that can
be used. You could use the MS aluminum hinge on the wing side and Carbinge
on the wingtip side.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John Barrett
www.carbinge.com
6:37 PM
Message 5
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| Subject: | 296/396 lossing location |
I get the digest so im late chiming in but I had that problem a few
months back, sent it in for checkout and they sent me a new 296 which
has worked fine, Charlie heathco
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation |
Hi John,
Thanks for the information - sounds like its not a problem, may depend on
circumstances as well, heat, humidity and other such factors - or may just
be another of those "urban myths" {:>)
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Barrett" <2thman@cablespeed.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Improvements to "Hinged" wingtip installation
>
> ED Anderson wrote:
>
> Very nice, sure beats my 32? screws, but seems I have read that
> graphite/carbon cloth can cause aluminum to corrode. Is not one end of
> the
> hinge sandwiched between rib and wing skin?
>
> Ed
> ****************
>
> That's a good question and one we wrestled with at length in the Lancair
> community many years ago. I believe that the Hysol adhesive will largely
> act as a buffer between the materials and the resin in the composite
> material acts as an additional buffer, but that's not the whole argument
> and
> not necessarily a wise basis for experimenting with your airplane.
>
> One of our members decided to run an experiment since the question arose.
> He has a saltwater fish tank and using that he assembled a piece of
> graphite
> clamped against a piece of aluminum and dunked the assembly into the tank
> for two weeks. He then pulled the assembly out and inspection revealed
> that
> there was no breakdown of the materials. Since that time the question has
> not re emerged and no one has reported deterioration or failure of metals
> in
> proximity to graphite.
>
> Since you ask that question it reminds me that we have considered the
> graphite to steel dielectric constant as a potential problem because we
> have
> a steel wire going through the hinge. It just so happens we use a nylon
> bearing in the hinge and so there is virtually no touching of the graphite
> and steel.
>
> If this answer still leaves one uneasy, there is another solution that can
> be used. You could use the MS aluminum hinge on the wing side and
> Carbinge
> on the wingtip side.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Barrett
> www.carbinge.com
>
>
> 6:37 PM
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 296/396 lossing location |
Care to mention the cost?
Ron Lee
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: 296/396 lossing location
I get the digest so im late chiming in but I had that problem a few
months back, sent it in for checkout and they sent me a new 296 which
has worked fine, Charlie heathco
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Bill, this is a good thread. On my Etrex, I saw no way to replace any
internal
battery. The same applies to my Lowrance Airmap 500. Hopefully this is
not
some insidious planned obsolescence issue.
I think I will call Garmin and ask about this issue and costs.
Perhaps I will check the user manual for any info.
Ron Lee
Good thought. Any problem with opening these things up for user
service (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a
nitrogen-filled case to mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?
-Stormy
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I found this in the Lowrance Airmap 500 manual (page 11)
"Flash memory and an internal lithium battery will keep your stored
data safe and accessible for the life of the product."
Message 10
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| Subject: | Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I can't speak to the 396 series. The 195s were sealed like a waterproof
watch and are fairly waterproof. Garmin says that you can't open them up,
but I split mine in half to semi-permanently mount it into the instrument
panel with no problem. This was in the early days of GPS and people were
stealing them like crazy.
I have no idea if Garmin tries to purge them with Nitrogen before sealing
them. The best advice I have for those who live in humid climates it to
crank up the air conditioner and reassemble the GPS (I do this when putting
my camera into the underwater camera housing) with it near the dry cooled
air. Easy and works perfectly for diving. Should be good for the GPS too.
DaveB
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
Good thought. Any problem with opening these things up for user service
(besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to
mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?
-Stormy
Message 11
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| Subject: | APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
I'm going to try again, Orville ;-)
The snow is sublimating in the sunshine and 22 degree wind, and I think I
can get airborne without packing the wheelpants with slush. It might be a
long downhill takeoff roll, with a 20 knot tailwind, but the landing will be
almost a hover.
I hope to be up at altitude by 3:00 EST. Here's the link again:
http://aprs.fi/?call=N30yd&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
Hopefully we will see some new data points appearing in real-time. This
stronger transmitter has not been recalibrated as-installed for clean
output, proper deviation, etc except at the factory, so I am hopeful, but
not guaranteeing anything.
If this works in googlemaps, try clicking the google earth KML feature to
see a 3D flight path depiction in real time (will SPOT do that??)
-Stormy
fingers crossed on the Garmin 296, too.
Message 12
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Year's ago on this list there was discuss about building your own spars. A
friend of mine did this, I helped. He used an arbor press (Harbor freight
part no. ITEM 3552-4VGA, now on sale for $32). One of use applied pressure
on the press while the other smacked the upright with a 2.5# sledge a couple
of times. Set a -6 rivet in two to three blows perfect each time. No bend
overs.
Marty in Brentwood TN
Time: 04:46:41 AM PST US
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: rivet hardening
HI guys and gals-
This is not absolutely purely RV related, so purists please delete now!
I was talking to a friend a while back about riveting. He is building one
of Monett's products, which is built almost exclusively with pulled rivets.
The only solid rivets are the big ones in the spar center section. What my
friend learned at a Monett factory seminar is to put the factory head in a
rivet set on an anvil and smack the shop end with a hammer. I believe they
were to use some sort of a striking bar or block to transfer the blow, but I
don't recall that detail perfectly at this point. Anyway, what my friend
was told at this seminar is that one of the various reasons for doing this
is that this technique will properly set the rivet in fewer blows than using
a rivet gun, and that this in turn would lessen the work hardening of the
rivet.
This is not an intuitive conclusion for me, and I was wondering what the
metallurgists / professional metal workers / other smart folks out there
think?
As a morsel for those purists who haven't already deleted, if this is a
valid point, perhaps we could make ever so slightly tougher structures by
using higher gun pressures while riveting.
Thoughts?
BTW, I ZnCrO3 most things, glued my canopy, have a constant speed, IFR
panel, and the little wheel is in the back... ;-)
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Marty
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
Well, I'm not selling the bicycle shop, that's for dang sure. Flight to
7200' MSL and not a single ping- something is very wrong. I'll be back---!
-Stormy
On Jan 20, 2008 2:46 PM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going to try again, Orville ;-)
>
> The snow is sublimating in the sunshine and 22 degree wind, and I think I
> can get airborne without packing the wheelpants with slush. It might be a
> long downhill takeoff roll, with a 20 knot tailwind, but the landing will be
> almost a hover.
>
> I hope to be up at altitude by 3:00 EST. Here's the link again:
> http://aprs.fi/?call=N30yd&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
>
> Hopefully we will see some new data points appearing in real-time. This
> stronger transmitter has not been recalibrated as-installed for clean
> output, proper deviation, etc except at the factory, so I am hopeful, but
> not guaranteeing anything.
>
> If this works in googlemaps, try clicking the google earth KML feature to
> see a 3D flight path depiction in real time (will SPOT do that??)
>
> -Stormy
>
> fingers crossed on the Garmin 296, too.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rivit hardening |
Back in about 2000 or 2001 when I built my RV-6A spar, Van rented a
pneumatic squeezer for the large rivets. When properly set up, it set
those rivet s perfectly with little effort. They were exactly repeatable.
I looked at Van's website and could not find any mention of that
squeezer. It was sent from user to user because of its heavy use rather
than returning to Van's after each use. If you can find a source now
that rents them it is a super way to set those spar rivets.
I've attached a couple of pictures of the squeezer in use.
Richard Dudley
RV-6A flying
Emrath wrote:
>
>
>Year's ago on this list there was discuss about building your own spars. A
>friend of mine did this, I helped. He used an arbor press (Harbor freight
>part no. ITEM 3552-4VGA, now on sale for $32). One of use applied pressure
>on the press while the other smacked the upright with a 2.5# sledge a couple
>of times. Set a -6 rivet in two to three blows perfect each time. No bend
>overs.
>Marty in Brentwood TN
>
>
>Time: 04:46:41 AM PST US
>From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>Subject: RV-List: rivet hardening
>
>
>HI guys and gals-
>
>This is not absolutely purely RV related, so purists please delete now!
>
>I was talking to a friend a while back about riveting. He is building one
>of Monett's products, which is built almost exclusively with pulled rivets.
>The only solid rivets are the big ones in the spar center section. What my
>friend learned at a Monett factory seminar is to put the factory head in a
>rivet set on an anvil and smack the shop end with a hammer. I believe they
>were to use some sort of a striking bar or block to transfer the blow, but I
>don't recall that detail perfectly at this point. Anyway, what my friend
>was told at this seminar is that one of the various reasons for doing this
>is that this technique will properly set the rivet in fewer blows than using
>a rivet gun, and that this in turn would lessen the work hardening of the
>rivet.
>
>This is not an intuitive conclusion for me, and I was wondering what the
>metallurgists / professional metal workers / other smart folks out there
>think?
>
>As a morsel for those purists who haven't already deleted, if this is a
>valid point, perhaps we could make ever so slightly tougher structures by
>using higher gun pressures while riveting.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>BTW, I ZnCrO3 most things, glued my canopy, have a constant speed, IFR
>panel, and the little wheel is in the back... ;-)
>
>glen matejcek
>aerobubba@earthlink.net
>Marty
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
No problem- they're forecasting 8 degrees F tonight; I'll just reassemble i
t
outside :-)
-Stormy
On Jan 20, 2008 2:16 PM, David Burton <d-burton@comcast.net> wrote:
> I can't speak to the 396 series. The 195s were sealed like a waterproof
> watch and are fairly waterproof. Garmin says that you can't open them up
,
> but I split mine in half to semi-permanently mount it into the instrument
> panel with no problem. This was in the early days of GPS and people were
> stealing them like crazy=85
>
>
> I have no idea if Garmin tries to purge them with Nitrogen before sealing
> them. The best advice I have for those who live in humid climates it to
> crank up the air conditioner and reassemble the GPS (I do this when putti
ng
> my camera into the underwater camera housing) with it near the dry cooled
> air. Easy and works perfectly for diving. Should be good for the GPS to
o.
>
>
> DaveB
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:46 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
>
>
> Good thought. Any problem with opening these things up for user service
> (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case to
> mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?
>
> -Stormy
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Garmin 296/396 losing location |
I guess the question is how long did Lowrance consider the life of the
Airmap to be? We replace these all the time in medical equipment and
computer products. They don't last the lifetime we expect out of the
equipment. There are different types of lithium batteries and some last
longer then others. I think 10 years would be about it. If you start with
100 of these, at the end of the "average" life 50 are dead, and some will be
dead much sooner then average. I just changed a back-up battery in a 286
computer that had been working for more then 20 years. The iMac batteries
can fail in 2 sometimes.
It wouldn't surprise me too much if replacing the backup battery did not
cure this problem, but given what Garmin's flat rate is it may be worth
trying. I would.
DaveB
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
I found this in the Lowrance Airmap 500 manual (page 11)
"Flash memory and an internal lithium battery will keep your stored
data safe and accessible for the life of the product."
Message 17
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| Subject: | Mechanical Fuel Pump Troubleshooting |
I am attempting to start an O-360 engine on an RV-4 for the first time
since installation. The engine has been previously run on a test stand
with no problems. The airplane has a Facet electric boost pump (per
Vans blueprints) and the stock Lycoming mechanical fuel pump and MA5
carb. I can not obain any fuel pressure or fuel flow through the
mechanical pump using only the boost pump. The boost pump provides
adequate pressure and flow at the mechanical pump inlet fitting but
there is only a trickle of fuel flow through the pump. What possible
mechanical pump failure mode would prevent the boost pump from supplying
the engine? I had to replace the fuel pump vent fitting - could a
blocked fuel pump vent prevent flow through the pump? Any other
troubleshooting ideas before I go through the pain of removing the pump
- very difficult on an RV-4!
Thanks for any helpful ideas
Rob
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Can't speak for the 396, but the III Pilot warns when the internal
backup battery gets low & warns every time you turn it on after it's too
low to sustain the memory while powered off.
You're not that far from DC. With all the tricks the military can play
with GPS, I wouldn't be surprised about anything going wrong up in your
area. Have you compared notes with others up there to see if theirs
displays the same symptoms if turned off the same length of time on the
same days?
Charlie
Bill Boyd wrote:
> Good thought. Any problem with opening these things up for user service
> (besides warranty, which I'm way beyond) - like a nitrogen-filled case
> to mitigate condensation, that might be ruined?
>
> -Stormy
>
> On Jan 19, 2008 10:54 PM, Bob J. <rocketbob@gmail.com
> <mailto:rocketbob@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't know about the 396 but I had the same problem with a Garmin
> GPS III Pilot. There is a coin size battery which is epoxied to the
> inside of the case with leads going to the circuit board. This
> battery keeps the real time clock powered when the main batteries
> are discharged. My battery went bad and every time the GPS was
> powered down it would lose track of the almanac, even though I had
> fresh AA batteries in it. I didn't look at the board to see how the
> coin battery is charged but I found a replacement and fixed mine. I
> suspect the 396 also has an internal coin-sized battery for the RTC
> and yours is probably dead also.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const.
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 6:36 PM, Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com
> <mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com>> wrote:
>
> I hope your 296 doesn't keep going south like my 396. My 396
> loses it's location almost every weekend - for sure if I miss a
> weekend flying. It takes 5-10 min to find itself if I tell it to
> use a new location - but at least it's still useable. I've
> talked to Garmin tech support a couple times and their drill is
> to get the latest software update and to purge the satellite
> almanac. Power up while holding the zoom out key for ~12 sec
> will flush the almanac (at least for the 396) and then leave it
> on in the open for 30-45 minutes to download a new one. That has
> not cured my problem so they tell me the next step is to send it
> in for the $350 flat rate repair... aaarrggghhh!
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill Boyd
> *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2008 4:13 PM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: APRS tracking technology as
> alternative to SPOT
>
> Replying to my own post, here- too many things wrong with
> the flight so I stood down. Garmin 296 wouldn't lock onto
> more than 2 birds, and thought the local time was 11:36 AM,
> so it acts like the internal battery is going south (flown
> as recently as last week) - but the unit powers up fine on
> the bench using just its own battery, as I write this.
> Directional control on the snow was awful, even though there
> was lots of grass showing - just too much cover. I think I
> packed the wheel pants with snow in short order. I couldn't
> even hold brakes against a 1600 rpm run-up without sliding.
> When I was about 50% beyond my normal rotation point and
> still hadn't broken ground, weaving like a taildragger pilot
> in a crosswind (gulp!) I balked the takeoff. Barely had
> enough braking action to execute a 180 within the width of
> the strip.
>
> This is disappointing, since I wanted to fly tonight and
> wanted to demo the APRS, but I guess I get an "A" for
> decision making. Even if I had had hull coverage I don't
> think I could have felt good about completing that takeoff,
> knowing I'd have to return to that same runway in a few
> minutes and try to stop safely, possibly with frozen brake
> pads. The weather is supposed to turn here tonight, so that
> was probably my one window to fly for the next week or two.
> Snow expected again tomorrow and a deep freeze on top of
> that. Should stay mushy out there till about April even if
> the snow dissipates. Some days are like that.
>
> I'll post a heads-up if /when I try the airborne APRS
> again. Meanwhile I'm going to have harsh words with my 296.
>
> -Stormy
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: APRS tracking technology as alternative to SPOT |
Hang in there. We're watching...
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
On Jan 20, 2008 4:07 PM, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I'm not selling the bicycle shop, that's for dang sure. Flight to
> 7200' MSL and not a single ping- something is very wrong. I'll be back---!
>
> -Stormy
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2008 2:46 PM, Bill Boyd < sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to try again, Orville ;-)
> >
> > The snow is sublimating in the sunshine and 22 degree wind, and I think
> > I can get airborne without packing the wheelpants with slush. It might be
a
> > long downhill takeoff roll, with a 20 knot tailwind, but the landing will be
> > almost a hover.
> >
> > I hope to be up at altitude by 3:00 EST. Here's the link again: http://aprs.fi/?call=N30yd&mt=m&z=11&timerange=21600
> >
> >
> > Hopefully we will see some new data points appearing in real-time. This
> > stronger transmitter has not been recalibrated as-installed for clean
> > output, proper deviation, etc except at the factory, so I am hopeful, but
> > not guaranteeing anything.
> >
> > If this works in googlemaps, try clicking the google earth KML feature
> > to see a 3D flight path depiction in real time (will SPOT do that??)
> >
> > -Stormy
> >
> > fingers crossed on the Garmin 296, too.
> >
> > **
> >
> >
Message 20
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| Subject: | Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
I'm pulling this old message out of the archive from August 2005. Maybe you remember
it, John McD was frustrated with the canopy frame and his process. He posted
his frustration here and got a gutful of "you're not a real builder" response
(his original post was intended to be humorous).
I've thought about John a lot in the last year or so because I'm not sure we've
heard from his since and if you're out there, John, I'm wondering how you ever
survived this process.
I started my canopy frame almost a year ago and things were going nicely until
the last month or so. Plexi has been drilled fitted, side skirts fit nicely. Reinforcing
kit clecoed in place. Check. Check. check
Last week I put the struts on and didn't realize I'd taken the reinforcing kit
off and, the thing pulled the frame wayyy forward. The struts were installed exactly
as instructed.
So this week I riveted the reinforcing kit on. I didn't encounter any problems
doing so.
Today I put the frame back on ..so far so good. Then reattached the struts. Spronnnnnnnng!
Now the right side is sitting up 5/8" as measured at the rear of the
riderear side of the frame. Where the hell did THAT twist come from.
Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the inside of
the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of the flange on
the channel. Cripes.
So I thought again about John and wondered if he made it through this disaster
of a process.
As for me, I'm giving up.
------------
OK, I started this whole thread as a joke, and trying to relieve my
frustration, but really ....
... Now I'm on a rant!
The reason I picked Vans was because it is the best kit out there in so, so
many ways.
Where else (certified or not) can you get a plane that will fly like this at
this cost? Where else can you find such a clear builders manual aided by
readily available tech support? (Thank you Tom Green et al for your patience with
an idiot like me.) BUT!!!...
Right from the outset I realized that I was not one of these guys that builds
the first one then suffers from "builders withdrawal" and immediately starts
building another. I DO NOT enjoy the building process. It's a means to an
end for me. I will never do this again. I just want to fly the thing, and I
want it to be right when I do,
There is a certain satisfaction from following the (usually) clear
directions, taking the time to understand the (usually) accurate drawings (the
biggest
aggregate time in my builder's log will be the looking at the drawings, head
scratching process. OK, my problem, my bad.), lining up the holes, being
precise, riveting the thing and finally saying, "Wow! I built a rudder, and it's
a
real quality job, thank you, thank you Vans for your design and the technical
support you provide to newbies like me." Tedium and patience is part of the
process to get it right, and you start to think, "OK, I can do this, I can
build an airframe if I just follow directions."
But then you run into things like this (the canopy) and all good will goes
out the window. Frustration doesn't need to be a part of the process if it can
be avoided.
I'm no engineer, but I'm reasonably intelligent, so can somebody tell me why
Vans couldn't put the welded canopy frame (and roll bar) in some kind of
factory jig to make it fit the rest of the airframe? I can visualize such an
apparatus but I have neither the skill, means, nor would it be practical for me
to
build such a jig for a "one time" application. If you can match drill skins
and ribs surely you can match drill this section too. Just tell me what it
costs and I'll pay it.
Right in Section 9 (Fitting the Canopy) page 1 of the manual it says this can
be "... one of the most disappointing, gumption-robbing experiences a
homebuilder can have." Got that right!
Just can't wait until I get to (Vans words) "The black art" of fiberglass.
Why is it that several guys are making a buck with fairings better than what
Vans supplies? Better yet, what a joy will wiring this sucker be? Why can't
Vans recommend a typical instrument panel and supply the components for the
same instead of me putting out $5K for someone to do this part?
A while back in the RV ator Van himself questioned why he had sold xx,xxx
thousand empenage kits when there were only x,xxx thousand flying. He said,
"What happened to the other x,xxx thousand?" You want my answer to date? The
canopy! No skill one has acquired thus far in the process prepares you for this
mess. Is it possible to leave the damn thing off and just fly with goggles?
Hello Vans! Fix it! Let me do my 51% somewhere else! There must
be other builders like me!
Please don't flame me. It would just add to my frustration at this point.
John McD (RV7A - @#
%$ Canopy - ARRGGHAAA)
Don't care if you archive or not, but please, somebody at Vans read this!!!
Rant over. Tomorrow is another day. Maybe the elves will finish the canopy
while I sleep.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159448#159448
Message 21
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| Subject: | Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the
inside of the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of
the flange on the channel. Cripes.
As for me, I'm giving up.
I learned a lot from a carpenter at work when I was young. One of the
things he said that I will always remember is that the trick to being a good
carpenter wasn't knowing how to do something right it was how to make it
right. That is certainly one of the tricks experienced plane builders know
that first-timers don't.
I'd love to see the builder's manual for the RV10. The builder's manual for
my RV6 consisted of an inventory sheet and a couple of cryptic notes. At
least that is what it seemed like to me. One of the ways we get a superb
plane for a fraction of the price of a certified plane is the limited hand
holding. I think Van's is getting better at this, but I think there would
have been lots more completions if they had provided better builder's
manuals. Their kits would have had to cost more to pay for this.
I'm interested to see what the RV-12 manual and kit is like. They are
expending lots of design work on making the kit fast and easy to build. I'm
really interested by this kit for several reasons. I understand the
necessity of have the fuel tank in the cockpit but don't like that aspect.
There probably isn't a solution for it.
DaveB
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
In a message dated 01/20/2008 4:59:42 PM Central Standard Time,
bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net writes:
Today I put the frame back on ..so far so good. Then reattached the struts.
Spronnnnnnnng! Now the right side is sitting up 5/8" as measured at the rear of
the riderear side of the frame. Where the hell did THAT twist come from.
Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the inside
of the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of the flange
on the channel. Cripes.
Bob, don't give up- the advice from the carpenter is most excellent! If I
understand you correctly (no idea what "riderear" means- upset, are ya?) is
seems that the pressure from the struts is shoving the frame forward and lifting
it on the right side? You have to get control! (of the frame, that is<G>!)
Sounds like you're talking about a tip-up?
During my build, I'd read some rv-list horror stories about the front of the
canopy fouling the front skin after the struts were installed shoving the
canopy forward against the top skin, resulting in some seriously mangled skins.
I
decided to add positive stops for the front of the canopy frame as shown here:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4983_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4983)
Unsure if this would help, but these things are just machines- they CAN be
conquered!
Mark
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 296/396 losing location |
Dave, it would appear that if you power up the GPS unit and the
date/time is way off then suspecting
a bad internal battery would be my first choice. However, without an
obvious way to replace that
battery in the GPS units I have, a flat rate of $300-400 to replace a
battery seems outrageous.
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: David Burton
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin 296/396 losing location
I guess the question is how long did Lowrance consider the life of the
Airmap to be? We replace these all the time in medical equipment and
computer products. They don't last the lifetime we expect out of the
equipment. There are different types of lithium batteries and some last
longer then others. I think 10 years would be about it. If you start
with 100 of these, at the end of the "average" life 50 are dead, and
some will be dead much sooner then average. I just changed a back-up
battery in a 286 computer that had been working for more then 20 years.
The iMac batteries can fail in 2 sometimes.
It wouldn't surprise me too much if replacing the backup battery did
not cure this problem, but given what Garmin's flat rate is it may be
worth trying. I would.
DaveB
Message 24
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Guys: Anyone have any contacts for sun visors in a -9A slider? Dan
Message 25
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| Subject: | Back to the scrap bins |
Does anyone have some single conductor shielded wire (S906-1-22 or equiv) in
their scrap bins?
I need a one foot piece and a three foot piece.
Thanks in advance,
Ralph
Message 26
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| Subject: | Left OVers for Sale |
Folks,
I have some left over instruments and components for sale. All parts are in
new condition. Drop me a line and make me an offer?! I need gas money!
Airflow Performance Maintainable Fuel Filter: List $132 asking $99
Tempest Dry Vacuum Pump: P/N AA215CC List $340.95 Asking $250
Rapco Vacuum Regulator: P/N RA2H3-12. List $168.95 Asking $125
Airborne Gyro Filter: List $37.25 Asking $25.
UMA Indicators:
UMA 1 1/4 Fuel Qty (2) List $132 each Asking $180 for both
UMA 1 1/4 Fuel PSI 0-30 PSI w/ senders and harness List $297 Asking $199
UMA 1 1/4 Fuel PSI 0-15 PSI w/ senders and harness. List $307 Asking $199
UMA 2 1/4 Manifold PSI. 10-35" Dual Diaphragm List $192 Asking $125
UMA 2 1/4 Tach. Requires Sender. Asking $125
UMA Suction List $94 Asking $69
UMA Oil Temp Probe List $63 Asking $45
Westach Dual Oil Temp/PSI: P/N 2DA3MM with Senders and Harnesses List $300
asking $225
Quartz Clock: CA-7264 List $89 Asking $59.
Thanks!
_________________
Jeff Linebaugh
jeff@rocket-boys.com <mailto:jeff@rocket-boys.com>
F1 "Sport" #33, 100 hours!
Collierville, TN
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Mechanical Fuel Pump Troubleshooting |
Rob,
There are two check valves in the pump. One each on the inlet and outlet. You should
be able to blow through the inlet side but not the other way. It's possible
one or both are stuck.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Underwood <udog1@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 3:49 pm
Subject: RV-List: Mechanical Fuel Pump Troubleshooting
I am attempting to start an O-360 engine on an RV-4 for the first time since installation.?
The engine has been previously run on a test stand with no problems.?
The airplane has a Facet electric boost pump (per Vans blueprints) and the
stock Lycoming mechanical fuel pump and MA5 carb.? I can not obain any fuel
pressure or fuel flow through the mechanical pump using only the boost pump.?
The boost pump provides adequate pressure and flow at the mechanical pump inlet
fitting but there is only a trickle of fuel flow through the pump.? What possible
mechanical pump failure mode would prevent the boost pump from supplying
the engine?? I had to replace the fuel pump vent fitting - could a blocked fuel
pump vent prevent flow through the pump?? Any other troubleshooting ideas before
I go through the pain of removing the pump - very difficult on an RV-4!
?
Thanks for any helpful ideas
Rob
________________________________________________________________________
Message 28
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Dan,
Rosen sunvisor systems. Or look at VAF for Roll your own sunvisor.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Ross
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sun Visors
Guys: Anyone have any contacts for sun visors in a -9A slider? Dan
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