Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:05 AM - Re: Heat boxes for RV-4 (Paul Besing)
2. 06:37 AM - Step crack (Ron Lee)
3. 10:13 AM - Re: Step crack (Chuck Weyant)
4. 11:02 AM - Re: Step crack (Bret Smith)
5. 11:11 AM - Re: Step crack (Chuck Jensen)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: Step crack (Bob J.)
7. 01:15 PM - Re: Step crack (John W. Cox)
8. 02:49 PM - Re: Step crack (Ron Lee)
9. 06:27 PM - Re: Step crack (David Burton)
10. 06:52 PM - Re: Step crack (Ron Lee)
11. 08:56 PM - Hangar in Socal and Bay area? (Paul Besing)
12. 09:05 PM - "News to me!" (Paul Besing)
13. 09:38 PM - Re: Hangar in Socal and Bay area? (pittss1@aol.com)
14. 11:43 PM - Re: "News to me!" (Doug Gray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Heat boxes for RV-4 |
Yes, definitely good volume. The heat may have a little too much, but it works
for sure. The fresh air is a little pre heated though. I suspect its because
the hot air doesn't have anywhere to vent off of the Y tube and it's preheating
the tube and leaking some hot air into it.
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: "halbenjamin@optonline.net" <halbenjamin@optonline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the update. I'm going to try it as well. Do you get a good volume of
air flow?
Hal
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> Update....installed and flew the "Y" selector box from Van's.
> Works as advertised. I just use one part of it, only using one
> cable. The heat works with my robbins muff, but isn't as warm
> as I would like. I don't fault the selector box for that, just
> the airflow/springs/etc etc that have been in the archives.
> Just need the right volume of air/temperature combination.
>
> Recommend the "Y" box.works perfectly. I can't see a need for
> the second valve they include with it. I left mine out. Also,
> I have it plumbed directly into my air vents on either side,
> just below the panel.
>
> Paul Besing
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "halbenjamin@optonline.net"
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 8:16:08 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
>
>
> Thanks Paul.
>
>
>
> Hal Benjamin
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Besing
> Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:53 am
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
> > Not yet...but it's dead center behind the engine, about 4-6
> > inches from the top of the firewall. That goes into a box on
> > the cabin side of the firewall with two outlets going to the
> air
> > vents.
> > I will try to get some pics soon.
> >
> > Paul Besing
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "halbenjamin@optonline.net"
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:42:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> >
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm working figuring out where to install all this stuff on
> the
> > firewall, do you have any pictures of your installation?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paul Besing
> > Date: Monday, January 7, 2008 10:51 am
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Heat boxes for RV-4
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >
> > > Installation was pretty easy. I had a scat tube running from
> > > the baffles to the firewall, into a box that splits to two
> > scat
> > > tubes going to the air vents, just below the panel on either
> > > side of the fuselage. I simply plugged that box into the
> > > firewall box, connected a cable and the heater tube. Haven't
> > > used it yet, so I'm not sure how it's gonna work, but should
> > be
> > > flying in a few days.
> > >
> > > My biggest concern is there is no place to vent the heat
> > > overboard. It's going to pre heat the mixer tube I imagine,
> > > which might effect the temperature of cool air going in..
> > We'll see.
> > >
> > > Paul Besing
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
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Message 2
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While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I found
a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion
of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be
rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people
installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.
Ron Lee
Message 3
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This IS a big problem. Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore
there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned. I beg to disagree
with them. I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee
(I built a 9A). Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me. We
haven't heard of any problems with cracks."
Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in hand
off his "nine". Said Van's said the same thing to him. He ordered two
additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps. A week
later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up with a
cracked step. All this from one little 'ol airport. Not a problem?
I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the
Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA). I asked if it could be repaired, and
would he reinforce it somehow? He studied the step and said he wouldn't
recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to
crack again even quicker in a different spot. Something to do with the
type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load
forces. Stuff I didn't really understand.
He rewelded it from front to aft underside. I had it repowder coated
and I reinstalled it. It's been more than a year ago and it's still
fine. One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit
while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible.
Chuck
RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: Step crack
While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual
amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I
found a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion
of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be
rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people
installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.
Ron Lee
Message 4
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I reinforced the steps in my -9A with .040 inside the fuselage. I
attached a photo. However, the cracks you guys are describing are
sounding like weld failures.
Bret Smith
RV-9A "Canopy"
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Weyant
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Step crack
This IS a big problem. Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore
there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned. I beg to disagree
with them. I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee
(I built a 9A). Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me. We
haven't heard of any problems with cracks."
Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in
hand off his "nine". Said Van's said the same thing to him. He ordered
two additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps. A
week later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up
with a cracked step. All this from one little 'ol airport. Not a
problem?
I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the
Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA). I asked if it could be repaired, and
would he reinforce it somehow? He studied the step and said he wouldn't
recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to
crack again even quicker in a different spot. Something to do with the
type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load
forces. Stuff I didn't really understand.
He rewelded it from front to aft underside. I had it repowder coated
and I reinstalled it. It's been more than a year ago and it's still
fine. One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit
while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible.
Chuck
RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: Step crack
While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual
amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I
found a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long
portion of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be
rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people
installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before
installation.
Ron Lee
Message 5
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Chuck,
You make a good point. Metals, metallurgy and materials science is far
more complex and requires a level of sophistication that even
knowledgeable homebuilders and experimenters are unlikely to have. As
they say, it is an art all by itself. When done properly the selection
of metals, attachment and structure configuration is a dizzying array of
possibilities to arrive at a design that is inexpensive, strong, durable
and manufacturable. When done well, we never even notice.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Step crack
This IS a big problem. Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore
there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned. I beg to disagree
with them. I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee
(I built a 9A). Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me. We
haven't heard of any problems with cracks."
Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in hand
off his "nine". Said Van's said the same thing to him. He ordered two
additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps. A week
later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up with a
cracked step. All this from one little 'ol airport. Not a problem?
I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the
Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA). I asked if it could be repaired, and
would he reinforce it somehow? He studied the step and said he wouldn't
recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to
crack again even quicker in a different spot. Something to do with the
type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load
forces. Stuff I didn't really understand.
He rewelded it from front to aft underside. I had it repowder coated
and I reinstalled it. It's been more than a year ago and it's still
fine. One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit
while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible.
Chuck
RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee <mailto:ronlee@pcisys.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: Step crack
While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I found
a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion
of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be
rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people
installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.
Ron Lee
Message 6
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4130 really is a poor choice of material for the step, the high carbon
content of 4130 makes it far less ductile than other common materials such
as 304 stainless. In other words, 4130 is far less tolerant of flexing. I
have a source that makes streamline tubing out of 304, wouldn't be hard to
make the step out of it.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On Jan 23, 2008 9:33 AM, Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net> wrote:
> While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount
> of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I found a
> crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion of
> the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
>
> Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be rewelded
> and somehow have that area reinforced.
>
> I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people installing
> these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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Miles Towner the former Quality Control individual at VANS left when Ken
Krueger saw no need for such service. He now works with me at Horizon
Airlines in Portland.
Eddy Current testing is not difficult to find through GA sources.
Sounds like a clear pattern of failed welds is beginning to surface. It
beckons the question, "What date was receipt of the step received by the
builder". Maybe this is an old issue for parts shipped more than three
years ago.
John Cox
RV10
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Step crack
This IS a big problem. Van's says they don't hear anything, therefore
there isn't a problem as far as they're concerned. I beg to disagree
with them. I had one step crack in the same identical spot as yours Lee
(I built a 9A). Called Van's, Scott says, "Hmmm, news to me. We
haven't heard of any problems with cracks."
Next day a fellow "nine" driver came over with TWO cracked steps in hand
off his "nine". Said Van's said the same thing to him. He ordered two
additional new steps from Van's and sent them pics of the steps. A week
later a "Six driver" from the other side of the airport showed up with a
cracked step. All this from one little 'ol airport. Not a problem?
I took it out and delivered it to a big time welding shop here on the
Central Coast (Santa Maria,CA). I asked if it could be repaired, and
would he reinforce it somehow? He studied the step and said he wouldn't
recommend reinforcing it as making it too stiff might encourage it to
crack again even quicker in a different spot. Something to do with the
type of steel, thickness, and angles of attachment combined with load
forces. Stuff I didn't really understand.
He rewelded it from front to aft underside. I had it repowder coated
and I reinstalled it. It's been more than a year ago and it's still
fine. One thing I do do is to use a stool to gain access to the cockpit
while in the hanger avoiding the steps altogether if possible.
Chuck
RV10 Finishing up the Fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee <mailto:ronlee@pcisys.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: Step crack
While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an
unusual amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out
I found a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long
portion of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to
be rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people
installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before
installation.
Ron Lee
Message 8
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My best recollection is that I installed the step in 2005, probably in
the first six months of 2005
Ron Lee
Message 9
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Post us a picture if you can Ron, or anybody else who has had this problem.
DaveB
RV6
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: RV-List: Step crack
While preparing for the condition inspection I noticed an unusual amount
of movement in the pilot's side step on my 6A. Checking it out I found a
crack on the inside just under the weld that connects the long portion of
the step to the plate that attaches to the fuselage.
Yesterday I drilled out the rivets and will remove the step to be rewelded
and somehow have that area reinforced.
I saw another occurrence of this on the Vans website so people installing
these steps should consider reinforcing that area before installation.
Ron Lee
Message 10
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Here it is. This is on the inside of the step just under the weld.
http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/StepCrack1Small.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Hangar in Socal and Bay area? |
Hey all...I'm coming to Burbank, California for about 5 weeks. Anyone by chance
know of a hangar that might have some space for that period of time? Furthermore,
I'm going to be based in Oakland after that, so I'll be looking for hangar
in the Bay area as well.
Thanks...
Paul Besing
do not archive
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 12
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As much as I love their airplanes, their prices, and generally the company altogether,
they do have a tendency to say "never heard of that". I cracked my canopy
on my -6A because there is one hole that many, many people have drilled on
the side skirt that will crack the canopy. I just didn't think my conditions
would crack because of shop temperature, amount of pressure on the curve, etc.
Well, it did crack and I wasn't going to have a 3" crack on a brand new airplane.
Told van's to make that hole not shown to be drilled on the plans per
mine and many other recommendations including George Orndorff, and they acted
like I was the first. Same thing with my RV-4 rudder just a couple of weeks
ago. The plans do not adjust for the thicker skins and the distance for the stiffeners
to the trailing edge is wrong on the plans when you use a .020 skin.
They again acted like it was never a problem, but anyone who follows the plans
on that drawing with the
.020 skin will have the same problem.
So, the best we can do is educate Van's the best we can, as we are his real "beta
testers". I just wish they would admit flaws sometimes and fix them. Sure
would have saved us alot of $$ I'm sure!
Paul Besing
do not archive
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hangar in Socal and Bay area? |
tell me more . type of a/c ... who do you fly for... and so on.
mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <pbesing@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 8:50 pm
Subject: RV-List: Hangar in Socal and Bay area?
Hey all...I'm coming to Burbank, California for about 5 weeks.? Anyone by chance
know of a hangar that might have some space for that period of time?? Furthermore,
I'm going to be based in Oakland after that, so I'll be looking for hangar
in the Bay area as well.
Thanks...
Paul Besing
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: "News to me!" |
On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 20:59 -0800, Paul Besing wrote:
> cracked my canopy on my -6A because there is one hole that many, many
> people have drilled on the side skirt that will crack the canopy. I
> just didn't think my conditions would crack because of shop
> temperature, amount of pressure on the curve, etc. Well, it did crack
> and I wasn't going to have a 3" crack on a brand new airplane. Told
> van's to make that hole not shown to be drilled on the plans
Which particular hole is that? Slider or Tipup?
Timely info for me.
Doug Gray
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