Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Re: Rudder Trim Tab Material? (sheldon barrett)
2. 08:12 AM - Re: nose gear mod (William Dean)
3. 08:31 AM - Re: Cowl Fasteners (John Barrett)
4. 10:36 AM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Tedd McHenry)
5. 12:17 PM - Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (JFLEISC@aol.com)
6. 04:38 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Robin Marks)
7. 05:28 PM - Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (n801bh@netzero.com)
8. 05:32 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Bobby Hester)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Bobby Hester)
10. 06:31 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (linn Walters)
11. 06:36 PM - Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (JFLEISC@aol.com)
12. 06:39 PM - Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (Ralph Finch)
13. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Cowl Fasteners (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
14. 08:34 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Cooling/Plenums) (Kyle Boatright)
15. 09:34 PM - Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (Ralph Finch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Tab Material? |
Yes..seems to work pretty good... Took couple flights to adjust..and
ball in center... It's pop-riveted on the left side of the rudder bottom
with 3 rivets..
Sheldon
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim Tab Material?
Very nice look...works well I assume?
----- Original Message ----
From: sheldon barrett <sheldonb@frontiernet.net>
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:48:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trim Tab Material?
Paul... I did a aluminium tab on the bottom of the rudder... easy to
adjust... with a shape that gives the plane a little longer look (I
think ha).. However, some say not the best place for the tab
efficiency... See attached shot...
Sheldon
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Besing
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trim Tab Material?
Hey all...looking for some bright ideas on a trim tab. I made one
out of wood. A wedge shape. Taped on the rudder and nailed the size
and location...pure luck. Anyway, what have others seen that would look
very clean and work well? How did you fasten it? I was thinking of a
solid piece of machined alluminum, but not sure how to mount it on the
skin.
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD
Arizona
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: nose gear mod |
Just remember that assumptions make an ass/of/u/and me (ass/u/me) LOL
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty <jfogarty@tds.net>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:03:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: nose gear mod
My understanding, the 1 inch is what will hit the pot hole first, consequently,
after cutting off the existing rod the plane will have one more inch of clearance.
If you hold that nose up you will never have a problem, that is my assumption,
however, I should never assume anything.
Jim
RV9a Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 8:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: nose gear mod
I have been thinking about this thing and wonder why we cant put the new fork on
the existing rod which would end up giving the same clearance as if we cut off
and inch and rethreaded it?? would change the sitting angle just barley. Am
I missing something here? I havent asked Vans about this yet, wanted to see if
anyone else has thought about this. Charlie Heathco
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Release Date: 2/15/2008 9:00 AM
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | re: Cowl Fasteners |
Mark writes: Huh? And just what the heck are "rivet divots"? No idea what
you're talking
about. Neat thing about the Experimental family- use common sense selecting
products that suit your needs, do what you think is best and let the results
speak for themselves...
*********************
I'm referring to the little dimples that either are immediately apparent in
the paint job where rivets were placed or that show up later after vibration
and working cause them to pull the paint layer back and forth a little.
Please understand the comments about breakage, fingers getting damaged etc
with metal hinges didn't come from me - those comments were offered by
another builder on the RV List and I was referring to those.
Agreed that metal hinges can and will work OK and certainly at the front end
they cost less. However, we do hear about the corrosion and breakdown of
aluminum hinges a good bit on the Lancair Mail List so there is reason to
consider that aspect. Sometimes there are black streaks that come out of
aluminum hinges on aircraft. That streak is the result of oxidation turning
to powder, getting mixed with water and running out of the hinge joint onto
the paint surrounding. We have quite a few reports of hinges wearing out on
homebuilts to the extent that builders need to replace or try to insert a
Teflon sleeve over the pin to get more service life out of the hinge. Also
there are credible reports of the attachments working loose over time where
rivets are used to attach aluminum hinges to composite. Perhaps those
builders were not as accomplished as some, but it is fact that two
dissimilar materials like aluminum and composite mechanically joined with a
long joint will work and expand/contract at different rates during thermal
and vibrational cycles. This activity tends to stretch and wear the
attachment points and can and does lead to loss of the integrity of the
attachment.
Regards,
John Barrett, CEO
Leading Edge Composites
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com
7:08 PM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Would it be simpler and
more effective to use a plenum, rather than relying on the fit of the cowl and
baffles, to ensure good cooling and minimum cooling drag? I'm thinking that,
while the plenum itself is more work up front, it might eliminate a lot of time
spend fiddling around with the cowl and baffles later.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 5
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| Subject: | Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
My RV-4 fuel tanks are 18 years old and starting to leak (I'm the second
owner and one was seeping when I first got it 12 years ago). Its time to take
them off and reseal them. Has anyone had any luck with any sealer that will
stand up to the alcohol in auto gas? What does that RV-3 team that runs on
methanol use? Thanks.
Jim
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 6
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| Subject: | WOW - What a difference |
>> would it be simpler and more effective to use a plenum, rather than
relying on the fit of the cowl and
baffles, to ensure good cooling and minimum cooling drag? <<
My thinking exactly. All my future RV's will have either metal or
composite/glass plenums.
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
Jim. Here is my take on this rather touchy issue. On my Zenith 801 I res
earched this topic quite extensively and came to this conclusion. When p
roperly applied the Randolph 912 sloshing compound will stand up to the
demands of alcohol laced fuel. The earlier product will degrade when use
d with gas mixed with alcohol. Several reports have any sloshing compoun
d suspect with downing of aircraft. This might be true, to a point. Ther
e was a DC-3 that crashed on takeoff and the conclusion was the sloshin
g compound came loose and plugged the fuel lines. The real story is the
operator tried to seal up leaking tanks that were 50+ years old to save
some money. Of course in those 50 years the fuel in the tanks, like any
gas will do, coated the inner surface of the tanks with a varnish. Since
they couldn't properly clean and prep the tanks they apparently just ad
ded sloshing sealer and let it dry. Common sense says the chain is only
as strong as the weakest link and that turned out to be the layer of scu
m that the sealer attached itself to. It did delaminate and that apparen
tly sent the sloshing compound/varnish into the tanks to float around an
d plug up the works. The proper way and the way I did my tanks is to tak
e a virgin tank, before it is mounted in the wing, add MEK and shake it
good. I then added a cup or so of gravel and shaked again for several mi
nutes. This abraded the inner surface and scuffed it up to let the slosh
ing compound get a grip. I then emptied the tank, flushed it with hot wa
ter and detergent a few times and dumped a little more MEK in it, shook
it more. poured that out and let it air dry. Then I added the 912 produc
t and rotated the tank to throughly coat the inner surface with the comp
ound, poured the remaining product out and let it dry for a week or so.
The stuff is bonded to my satisfaction. After 5 years and thousands of g
allons of fuel through the tanks there is absolutly no signs of failure
of the sloshing compound or delamination from the tank surface. I suspec
t the bad rap the sloshing compound gets is from people who try to fix a
tank and not prep the surface correctly. It is not like one can take a
DC-3 and shake it good enough to remove 50 eyars of crud build up..
YMMV.
do not archive
Ben
www.haaspowerair.com
My RV-4 fuel tanks are 18 years old and starting to leak (I'm the second
owner and one was seeping when I first got it 12 years ago). Its time t
o take them off and reseal them. Has anyone had any luck with any sealer
that will stand up to the alcohol in auto gas? What does that RV-3 team
that runs on methanol use? Thanks. Jim
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Li
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=
_____________________________________________________________
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
At what outside air temp are you talking about here? I can see this at
90-100 degrees OAT, but at 20-50 OAT you should not see this. I am
currently flying without my leg fairing and pants and on 90+ OAT days I
see 420 on climb out, but I do not let it get over that, I level off and
pull the throttle back until it comes back to 400. I also see between
380-390 in cruise. 40 degree days I see about 385 climb out and 350
cruise. I'm hoping the have the leg fairing on in about a month.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Joel,
>
>
>
> To which item do you contribute the CHT temp improvement to? To which
> item do you contribute the speed difference to?
>
> Inquiring minds.
>
> My CHT's are never below 380 in cruise and well over 420 in climb out.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *joelrhaynes@aol.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2008 11:11 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: WOW - What a difference
>
>
>
> I've been flying my 7A for about 1.5 years and 150 hours. It
> remains unpainted and the cowl at the time of the first flight was
> structurally complete but the spinner gap was never to my liking since
> it was nice at the top (0.25 inch) but too wide on the sides and
> particularly so on the bottom. My philosophy was to get it in the
> air, enjoy flying, and take my time in completing the fairings and
> final fiberglass finishing before painting (I still like this
> strategy). So over the last few weeks I spent a good 25 hours filling
> all the pin holes, re-working the spinner opening with some layups and
> flox, and getting a nice coat of primer on the cowl to hold me until
> the real paint goes on. The cosmetic outcome was very nice. Then I
> went flying. Holy s**t, it's a different airplane. I picked up 3-4
> knots in cruise and my CHTs dropped 20-25 degrees. My leaned out
> cruise CHTs at 2500 rpm and 7500 ft&nbs p;were 325 deg F yesterday
> with the OAT around freezing. On a 1500 fpm climb out I did not get
> above 350 on any cylinder. Before the changes I would sometimes need
> to push the nose down when I got to around 380 on #3. The cosmetic
> outcome was satisfying enough. The added performance is gravy.
>
> Joel Haynes
> N557XW
> Bozeman, MT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
At what outside air temp are you talking about here? I can see this at
90-100 degrees OAT, but at 20-50 OAT you should not see this. I am
currently flying without my leg fairing and pants and on 90+ OAT days I
see 420 on climb out, but I do not let it get over that, I level off and
pull the throttle back until it comes back to 400. I also see between
380-390 in cruise. 40 degree days I see about 385 climb out and 350
cruise. I'm hoping the have the leg fairing on in about a month.
XP-0360 one mag one Lightspeed Ign.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Joel,
>
>
>
> To which item do you contribute the CHT temp improvement to? To which
> item do you contribute the speed difference to?
>
> Inquiring minds.
>
> My CHT's are never below 380 in cruise and well over 420 in climb out.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *joelrhaynes@aol.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2008 11:11 AM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV-List: WOW - What a difference
>
>
>
> I've been flying my 7A for about 1.5 years and 150 hours. It
> remains unpainted and the cowl at the time of the first flight was
> structurally complete but the spinner gap was never to my liking since
> it was nice at the top (0.25 inch) but too wide on the sides and
> particularly so on the bottom. My philosophy was to get it in the
> air, enjoy flying, and take my time in completing the fairings and
> final fiberglass finishing before painting (I still like this
> strategy). So over the last few weeks I spent a good 25 hours filling
> all the pin holes, re-working the spinner opening with some layups and
> flox, and getting a nice coat of primer on the cowl to hold me until
> the real paint goes on. The cosmetic outcome was very nice. Then I
> went flying. Holy s**t, it's a different airplane. I picked up 3-4
> knots in cruise and my CHTs dropped 20-25 degrees. My leaned out
> cruise CHTs at 2500 rpm and 7500 ft&nbs p;were 325 deg F yesterday
> with the OAT around freezing. On a 1500 fpm climb out I did not get
> above 350 on any cylinder. Before the changes I would sometimes need
> to push the nose down when I got to around 380 on #3. The cosmetic
> outcome was satisfying enough. The added performance is gravy.
>
> Joel Haynes
> N557XW
> Bozeman, MT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>This brings up a question I've often wondered about. Would it be simpler and
>more effective to use a plenum, rather than relying on the fit of the cowl and
>baffles, to ensure good cooling and minimum cooling drag? I'm thinking that,
>while the plenum itself is more work up front, it might eliminate a lot of time
>spend fiddling around with the cowl and baffles later.
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC, Canada
>
BINGO!!!
At least in my mind. MY bird will sport a plenum when it gets to that
point. My only gripe with the plenum is that it's harder to get to the
plugs to clean them ...... but proper leaning should take care of that.
I have seen some with hinged plenums, but that seems like more weight
and build time. I'll just use screws to anchor the plenum top ...... a
battery powered screwdriver will make that task a quick one.
Linn
do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
Ben;
This has been my take on the subject as well from the research I have
done. Just like painting, its the prep work that counts. Besides the clean out
with MEK most of the "slosh" companies recommend an etching wash, that can
take 12 hours or more, then a complete and thorough dry out before application.
I'm just glad to hear from someone who has got it to work. Thanks.
Jim
do not archive
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel tank |
sealer?
The below is a great post about thorough preparation of a tank for
sealant...but had Don'tArchive at the end. I reproduce the post here with
the DNA and the author's name removed.
I'm just wondering why, on posts like these with useful info, do the authors
put the DNA label. Prevents finding the good info in the future.
Ralph Finch
_____
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer?
Jim. Here is my take on this rather touchy issue. On my Zenith 801 I
researched this topic quite extensively and came to this conclusion. When
properly applied the Randolph 912 sloshing compound will stand up to the
demands of alcohol laced fuel. The earlier product will degrade when used
with gas mixed with alcohol. Several reports have any sloshing compound
suspect with downing of aircraft. This might be true, to a point. There was
a DC-3 that crashed on takeoff and the conclusion was the sloshing compound
came loose and plugged the fuel lines. The real story is the operator tried
to seal up leaking tanks that were 50+ years old to save some money. Of
course in those 50 years the fuel in the tanks, like any gas will do, coated
the inner surface of the tanks with a varnish. Since they couldn't properly
clean and prep the tanks they apparently just added sloshing sealer and let
it dry. Common sense says the chain is only as strong as the weakest link
and that turned out to be the layer of scum that the sealer attached itself
to. It did delaminate and that apparently sent the sloshing compound/varnish
into the tanks to float around and plug up the works. The proper way and the
way I did my tanks is to take a virgin tank, before it is mounted in the
wing, add MEK and shake it good. I then added a cup or so of gravel and
shaked again for several minutes. This abraded the inner surface and scuffed
it up to let the sloshing compound get a grip. I then emptied the tank,
flushed it with hot water and detergent a few times and dumped a little more
MEK in it, shook it more. poured that out and let it air dry. Then I added
the 912 product and rotated the tank to throughly coat the inner surface
with the compound, poured the remaining product out and let it dry for a
week or so. The stuff is bonded to my satisfaction. After 5 years and
thousands of gallons of fuel through the tanks there is absolutly no signs
of failure of the sloshing compound or delamination from the tank surface. I
suspect the bad rap the sloshing compound gets is from people who try to fix
a tank and not prep the surface correctly. It is not like one can take a
DC-3 and shake it good enough to remove 50 eyars of crud build up..
YMMV.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: re: Cowl Fasteners |
In a message dated 02/16/2008 10:33:36 AM Central Standard Time,
2thman@cablespeed.com writes:
I'm referring to the little dimples that either are immediately apparent in
the paint job where rivets were placed or that show up later after vibration
and working cause them to pull the paint layer back and forth a little.
>>>
Ahhhh! I can certainly see how that could happen, and wished to avoid it
when building my plane. I'd heard about the following technique from the RV-list
(circa 2001-2002?) before tackling any hinge attachment to fiberglass- the
application is shown here:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=23983_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=23983)
Not to say there isn't a superior method, and don't recall who the original
advocate was, but it sho 'nuff works.
I surmise the reason Lancairs have this "problem" is airflow/skin friction
heating resulting in unven expansion of rivets and composite materials causing
the separation around the rivet heads?
8-)
Mark
do not archive
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference (Cooling/Plenums) |
Just an opinion on the subject of plenums. If you are looking for the very
last ounce of speed, probably at the sacrifice of engine access, by all
means, install a plenum. For a given intake and outlet size, you should get
a few percentage points better cooling because you should have fewer air
leaks. But it'll be a single digit savings - probably low single digits. A
plenum isn't going to solve serious cooling problems. Those are usually
caused by something unique (or not quite right) with the airplane.
In my case, the oil temperatures were 220f in cruise on warm days for the
first year or so I flew my RV-6. In the end, the high temps boiled down to
two issues: I had the first generation Positech oil cooler, which was a bad
product. Bad enough that Positech eventually offered free replacements.
Also, I hadn't cut a large enough hole in my baffling to feed air to the oil
cooler. A plenum wouldn't have solved either of those issues.
There are boatloads of RV's out there with the stock baffling and cowl and
the vast majority of those airplanes cool well. The stock system is simple
to install (and if you use a plenum, Van's baffle kit will probably form
much of your plenum anyway), inexpensive, and effective. Unless you are one
of those individuals looking for that last 1-2% in speed or efficiency (at
the expense of time, money, and servicability), the stock baffles and
cowling work just fine.
As a side note, it was humid here in N. GA this morning. Humid enough that
I pulled prop contrails for the entire length of my takeoff roll and
probably another 3,000 feet down the runway on climb-out. It was kinda neat
seeing a swirling vortex wrapped around the airplane...
KB
Message 15
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| Subject: | Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
What about welding the tank? In the Ercoupe world there is a guy that
specializes in welding the tanks to eliminate any problem with sealer.
RF
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JFLEISC@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer?
My RV-4 fuel tanks are 18 years old and starting to leak (I'm the second
owner and one was seeping when I first got it 12 years ago). Its time to
take them off and reseal them. Has anyone had any luck with any sealer that
will stand up to the alcohol in auto gas? What does that RV-3 team that runs
on methanol use? Thanks.
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