Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - Why the "Do Not Archive" (linn Walters)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (JFLEISC@AOL.COM)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" (Bob Collins)
4. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fue l tank sealer? (n801bh@netzero.com)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" (Sam Buchanan)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" (Patrick Kelley)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" (Bob Collins)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Cowl Fasteners (John Barrett)
9. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (Rob Prior)
10. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (Bob Collins)
11. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (Rob Prior)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Tim Bryan)
13. 12:12 PM - Ethanol: Was Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (jerry2dt@aol.com)
14. 12:21 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Dale Walter)
15. 12:52 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Konrad L. Werner)
16. 01:12 PM - Re: Ethanol: Was Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? (JFLEISC@aol.com)
17. 02:44 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Cooling/Plenums) (John Morgensen)
18. 05:03 PM - LOE - Land of Enchantment Fly-In (5T6) - Dona Ana County, Santa Teresa, NM (Richard Reynolds)
19. 06:37 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (n801bh@netzero.com)
20. 08:19 PM - Re: LOE - Land of Enchantment Fly-In (5T6) - Dona Ana County, Santa Teresa, NM (RV6 Flyer)
21. 09:00 PM - Re: WOW - What a difference (Tim Bryan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Why the "Do Not Archive" |
Well Ralph, I can't speak for the originator (who'se been removed
........ so sad .....) but for myself I use 'do not archive' (so it
doesn't go there again) a lot because usually it's my opinion or my
limited experience. I would, in no way, want someone to take my drivel
as gospel, and possibly suffer some indignity that I managed to escape.
Although the plane he was speaking of .... his Zenith ..... may not have
the same construction nor similar problems to an RV-10 ..... I also
found his info rather enlightening. I'd have never thought of putting
rocks in the tank as a acuffing agent. Introducing foreign material
(maybe sloshing compound fits this too) into my fuel tank just goes
against the grain. I do understand your position, and ponder each time
whether to add the postscript or not ...... and apply the criteria
above. Each time I wonder if I'm passing on urban legend or not. There
are far more experienced posters on these lists, and I defer to their
wisdom a lot!!!
As for the archives, I've seen a lot of 'me too' that can't seem to find
stuff they're looking for, that don't contain the 'dna', and also don't
have any new info or a correct subject line. Maybe we should work on
keeping the subject line relevant????
Linn
...... it's already there!!!
Ralph Finch wrote:
> The below is a great post about thorough preparation of a tank for
> sealant...but had Don'tArchive at the end. I reproduce the post here
> with the DNA and the author's name removed.
>
> I'm just wondering why, on posts like these with useful info, do the
> authors put the DNA label. Prevents finding the good info in the future.
>
> Ralph Finch
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 5:23 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer?
>
> Jim. Here is my take on this rather touchy issue. On my Zenith 801
> I researched this topic quite extensively and came to this
> conclusion. When properly applied the Randolph 912 sloshing
> compound will stand up to the demands of alcohol laced fuel. The
> earlier product will degrade when used with gas mixed with
> alcohol. Several reports have any sloshing compound suspect with
> downing of aircraft. This might be true, to a point. There was a
> DC-3 that crashed on takeoff and the conclusion was the sloshing
> compound came loose and plugged the fuel lines. The real story is
> the operator tried to seal up leaking tanks that were 50+ years
> old to save some money. Of course in those 50 years the fuel in
> the tanks, like any gas will do, coated the inner surface of the
> tanks with a varnish. Since they couldn't properly clean and prep
> the tanks they apparently just added sloshing sealer and let it
> dry. Common sense says the chain is only as strong as the weakest
> link and that turned out to be the layer of scum that the sealer
> attached itself to. It did delaminate and that apparently sent the
> sloshing compound/varnish into the tanks to float around and plug
> up the works. The proper way and the way I did my tanks is to take
> a virgin tank, before it is mounted in the wing, add MEK and shake
> it good. I then added a cup or so of gravel and shaked again for
> several minutes. This abraded the inner surface and scuffed it up
> to let the sloshing compound get a grip. I then emptied the tank,
> flushed it with hot water and detergent a few times and dumped a
> little more MEK in it, shook it more. poured that out and let it
> air dry. Then I added the 912 product and rotated the tank to
> throughly coat the inner surface with the compound, poured the
> remaining product out and let it dry for a week or so. The stuff
> is bonded to my satisfaction. After 5 years and thousands of
> gallons of fuel through the tanks there is absolutly no signs of
> failure of the sloshing compound or delamination from the tank
> surface. I suspect the bad rap the sloshing compound gets is from
> people who try to fix a tank and not prep the surface correctly.
> It is not like one can take a DC-3 and shake it good enough to
> remove 50 eyars of crud build up..
>
> YMMV.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
In a message dated 2/17/2008 12:36:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us writes:
My RV-4 fuel tanks are 18 years old and starting to leak (I'm the second
owner and one was seeping when I first got it 12 years ago). Its time to take
them off and reseal them. Has anyone had any luck with any sealer that will
stand up to the alcohol in auto gas? What does that RV-3 team that runs on
methanol use? Thanks.
I didn't even know that could be done particularly with all the internal
ribs. How would that effect structural strength? It is, after all, part of the
wing system.
Jim
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Why the "Do Not Archive" |
//As for the archives, I've seen a lot of 'me too' that can't seem to find
stuff they're looking for, that don't contain the 'dna', and also don't have
any new info or a correct subject line. Maybe we should work on keeping the
subject line relevant????
Maybe the list should adopt the Google model and just keep all threads
intact and provide the searcher with all the possibilities rathre than let
posters decide what someone in the future will be interested in reading.
When I've used the search engine in the past, I almost never find a total
thread...I find fragments, leav ing me to wonder whta details are missing .
I LIKE people's opinions becuase usually it's based on their EXPERIENCES
which is of great value.
It's an antiquated archving strategy.
But to avoid the "do not archive" police, well.... do not archive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fue |
l tank sealer?
Hi guys,,, I probably should have not DNA'ed my post because in my situa
tion the sloshing compound treatment worked perfectly. From watching the
TV show Mythbusters I always try to run through my mind the thought " w
hat if my comment lead to a accident" scenerio. As a builder who is deve
loping a firewall forward powerplant for RV-10's, Lancairs, Murphy Moose
's and other airframes I am VERY reluctant to pass on info till I am ove
rwhelming sure it is correct and repeatable. As for the one poster who i
nquired about the RV-10 tanks being similar, yup the Zenith and Vans hav
e almost the exact fabricating sequence so my thoughts should translate
between both models. My next build will most probably be a RV-10 to use
as a test bed for my motor program simply because as it sits now my Zeni
th 801 is "mildly" overpowered and borders on being dangerous when I get
down to the slow flight area. These Matronics's lists are a wealth of k
nowledge and experience and I don't want to corrupt its concept in any w
ay by passing on an" urban legend".
Safe flying and Happy building,
Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com
The below is a great post about thorough preparation of a tank for seala
nt...but had Don'tArchive at the end. I reproduce the post here with th
e DNA and the author's name removed. I'm just wondering why, on posts li
ke these with useful info, do the authors put the DNA label. Prevents f
inding the good info in the future. Ralph Finch
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer?
Jim. Here is my take on this rather touchy issue. On my Zenith 801 I res
earched this topic quite extensively and came to this conclusion. When p
roperly applied the Randolph 912 sloshing compound will stand up to the
demands of alcohol laced fuel. The earlier product will degrade when use
d with gas mixed with alcohol. Several reports have any sloshing compoun
d suspect with downing of aircraft. This might be true, to a point. Ther
e was a DC-3 that crashed on takeoff and the conclusion was the sloshin
g compound came loose and plugged the fuel lines. The real story is the
operator tried to seal up leaking tanks that were 50+ years old to save
some money. Of course in those 50 years the fuel in the tanks, like any
gas will do, coated the inner surface of the tanks with a varnish. Since
they couldn't properly clean and prep the tanks they apparently just ad
ded sloshing sealer and let it dry. Common sense says the chain is only
as strong as the weakest link and that turned out to be the layer of scu
m that the sealer attached itself to. It did delaminate and that apparen
tly sent the sloshing compound/varnish into the tanks to float around an
d plug up the works. The proper way and the way I did my tanks is to tak
e a virgin tank, before it is mounted in the wing, add MEK and shake it
good. I then added a cup or so of gravel and shaked again for several mi
nutes. This abraded the inner surface and scuffed it up to let the slosh
ing compound get a grip. I then emptied the tank, flushed it with hot wa
ter and detergent a few times and dumped a little more MEK in it, shook
it more. poured that out and let it air dry. Then I added the 912 produc
t and rotated the tank to throughly coat the inner surface with the comp
ound, poured the remaining product out and let it dry for a week or so.
The stuff is bonded to my satisfaction. After 5 years and thousands of g
allons of fuel through the tanks there is absolutly no signs of failure
of the sloshing compound or delamination from the tank surface. I suspec
t the bad rap the sloshing compound gets is from people who try to fix a
tank and not prep the surface correctly. It is not like one can take a
DC-3 and shake it good enough to remove 50 eyars of crud build up..
YMMV.
========================
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========================
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_____________________________________________________________
Looking for insurance? Click to compare and save big.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tyWPOJRaJ2HEktwoFq
z3tswtCUfOyHQNM8UTWqFljVQBZkn/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Why the "Do Not Archive" |
Bob Collins wrote:
> //As for the archives, I've seen a lot of 'me too' that can't seem to find
> stuff they're looking for, that don't contain the 'dna', and also don't have
> any new info or a correct subject line. Maybe we should work on keeping the
> subject line relevant????
>
> Maybe the list should adopt the Google model and just keep all threads
> intact and provide the searcher with all the possibilities rathre than let
> posters decide what someone in the future will be interested in reading.
> When I've used the search engine in the past, I almost never find a total
> thread...I find fragments, leav ing me to wonder whta details are missing .
> I LIKE people's opinions becuase usually it's based on their EXPERIENCES
> which is of great value.
>
> It's an antiquated archving strategy.
Here's another approach, Bob; if a message isn't worth archiving......it
probably isn't worth posting...... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Why the "Do Not Archive" |
I=92ve never been a fan of Do Not Archive. When I do search the
archive, I
find that threads since it was implemented are full of holes at best.
Later
posts often refer to earlier posts that are missing, so the sense of the
thread is ruined. Worse, if someone does have something useful to say,
it
is totally lost if they quote the previous thread and fail, like in this
message, to delete the DNA from the quoted message ' understandable if
there
is a long quote and even more so if the quotes are several messages
deep.
Before DNA was implemented, there were a lot of complaints about
=91signal to
noise ratio=92 in the archives. Personally, I never had a problem; the
search
engine narrowed the field and a good text parser handled the rest.
Frankly,
I don=92t see how implementing a strategy that reduces the noise by also
reducing the signal really helps in getting the signal through.
Patrick Kelley ' RV-6A ' FWF kit received; too much d****d snow to
get into
the hangar
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Why the "Do Not Archive"
//As for the archives, I've seen a lot of 'me too' that can't seem to
find
stuff they're looking for, that don't contain the 'dna', and also don't
have
any new info or a correct subject line. Maybe we should work on keeping
the
subject line relevant????
Maybe the list should adopt the Google model and just keep all threads
intact and provide the searcher with all the possibilities rathre than
let
posters decide what someone in the future will be interested in reading.
When I've used the search engine in the past, I almost never find a
total
thread...I find fragments, leav ing me to wonder whta details are
missing .
I LIKE people's opinions becuase usually it's based on their EXPERIENCES
which is of great value.
It's an antiquated archving strategy.
But to avoid the "do not archive" police, well.... do not archive.
2/16/2008
2:16 PM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Why the "Do Not Archive" |
//Here's another approach, Bob; if a message isn't worth archiving......it
probably isn't worth posting...... ;-)
See, if we'd have a good archiving system, you'd be able to look back 3 days
and see the one I wrote that said:
"Plus, I've never been able to understand why a message that has no value i
the future, would have any in the present?"
Fortunately, the Web-based RV-List doens't pay any attention to the "do not
archive" command, and so it's available here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=39384
Joking aside, the problem isn't the message that shouldn't have been posted
in the first place; the problem is the posts that provide decent information
that people feel compelled to DNA because they don't see the value in their
own expertise.
Of course, in this day and age -- unlike the old days when the RV List as
created -- there are literally hundreds of builder sites out there,
containing vast amounts of information.
So I'll put another plug in for the solution to taming the information:
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/
I'm pretty sure I don't have to write Do not archive on a separate line
here, seeing as how I've already mentioned in three times, but just in case.
Do Not archive
I feel like I should hve a 1200 baud modem when I type that. (g)
Message 8
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| Subject: | re: Cowl Fasteners |
Mark writes:
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=23983_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=23983)
Not to say there isn't a superior method, and don't recall who the original
advocate was, but it sho 'nuff works.
I surmise the reason Lancairs have this "problem" is airflow/skin friction
heating resulting in unven expansion of rivets and composite materials
causing
the separation around the rivet heads?
8-)
**********************
Mark
That's an interesting technique for hiding rivet dimples (or divots) I just
kind of like the sound of "rivet divots". I had not seen that before. Some
builders add a layer of very fine glass over the line of rivets and I think
they report that does the trick. With the Lancairs, there are quite a few
areas where countersunk screws reside on the outside skin leaving a similar
conundrum. I think most builders add the thin layer of glass over those
prior to body work to keep them from dimpling. It probably would help in the
situation we're discussing.
I don't think it's so much friction in the air stream causing the thermal
cycling but that might have an effect, and it does remind me of an incident
in the 1960's when I was flying one of the Navy's training jets - an F9
Cougar. I was out playing and I put the aircraft in a vertical dive for the
purpose of catching and passing a buddy who didn't know I was several
thousand feet higher and behind him. The victory roll I did right off his
nose surprised him and put a grin on both our faces, but I had the airspeed
to VNE - about 400 knots as I recall. The F9 had countersunk phillips head
screws on the wing surfaces and during my post flight inspection I
discovered that the paint in the screw heads was peeling out of the grooves.
I remember it well because I worried for days that the plane captain would
do a thorough post flight inspection and report it as a discrepancy.
Fortunately for me, I didn't get caught. I have no idea whether that
peeling was caused by pure friction or if heat was a factor in softening the
paint so that the thermal and mechanical effects combined to create the
result. After consideration, I'd surmise the combined effect is the more
reasonable conclusion.
I think the major cause of thermal cycling in our airplanes is rather the
difference in OAT from sea level to 25,000 feet. And the thermal cycles
just from sea level to 10,000 or 12,000 feet can be significant. I think
this plus the vibration is what causes these joints between dissimilar
materials to work back and forth and often bring about early failure after a
few hundred hours of service.
Regards,
John Barrett, CEO
Leading Edge Composites
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com
2:16 PM
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel |
tank sealer?
On 18:36 2008-02-16 "Ralph Finch" <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> I'm just wondering why, on posts like these with useful info, do the
> authors put the DNA label. Prevents finding the good info in the
> future.
There's a few reasons, but the big two are probably this:
The archives are public, and the search engine is probably a good source of
email addresses if you're looking to build up a spam list. Some people
don't want their email address stored anywhere if they can help it, and
there's no other way to keep it out of an archive and yet still contribute
to the list. Ergo, they post and let people archive their own messages.
Some people are concerned about liability, and don't want to be caught up
by someone who tries what they suggest, and then gets injured.
A smaller reason could be that some people have programmed themselves to
add 'do not archive' to *every* RV-List post, because they know that most
of the content here isn't worth keeping in the archive anyway.
Just like this message. :)
Do not archive.
-Rob
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel |
tank sealer?
//Some people are concerned about liability, and don't want to be caught up
by someone who tries what they suggest, and then gets injured.
Interesting. I wonder if this has ever happened?
Do not archive.
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Why the "Do Not Archive" Usage Was: Alcohol proof fuel |
tank sealer?
On 9:07 2008-02-17 "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net> wrote:
> Interesting. I wonder if this has ever happened?
Nobody has tried to blow up an airliner with a liquid explosive either, but
that doesn't stop the TSA from taking away your fluids when you go through
security. People aren't necessarily rational when it comes to things they
worry about.
-Rob
Do not archive.
Message 12
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| Subject: | WOW - What a difference |
Hi Bobby,
I have posted about this many times. My oil temps have always been way too
low around 165 with a door mostly closed behind the oil cooler mounted on
the back of the baffles like the drawings. My CHT's have always been very
high. This last summer I was pushing 478 after climb out and I reduce
throttle and RPM as soon as I reach about 500 feet AGL. In cruise I was
getting more like 430 to 450. I installed baffles and managed to get the
climb out down to 458 and the cruise to 420. Obviously I see lower numbers
in cooler temps like I posted below, but it still isn't very good. I have
yet to find anything that would make mine so much different than other RV's.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
At what outside air temp are you talking about here? I can see this at
90-100 degrees OAT, but at 20-50 OAT you should not see this. I am currently
flying without my leg fairing and pants and on 90+ OAT days I see 420 on
climb out, but I do not let it get over that, I level off and pull the
throttle back until it comes back to 400. I also see between 380-390 in
cruise. 40 degree days I see about 385 climb out and 350 cruise. I'm hoping
the have the leg fairing on in about a month.
XP-0360 one mag one Lightspeed Ign.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Tim Bryan wrote:
Joel,
To which item do you contribute the CHT temp improvement to? To which item
do you contribute the speed difference to?
Inquiring minds.
My CHT's are never below 380 in cruise and well over 420 in climb out.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of joelrhaynes@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
I've been flying my 7A for about 1.5 years and 150 hours. It remains
unpainted and the cowl at the time of the first flight was structurally
complete but the spinner gap was never to my liking since it was nice at the
top (0.25 inch) but too wide on the sides and particularly so on the bottom.
My philosophy was to get it in the air, enjoy flying, and take my time in
completing the fairings and final fiberglass finishing before painting (I
still like this strategy). So over the last few weeks I spent a good 25
hours filling all the pin holes, re-working the spinner opening with some
layups and flox, and getting a nice coat of primer on the cowl to hold me
until the real paint goes on. The cosmetic outcome was very nice. Then I
went flying. Holy s**t, it's a different airplane. I picked up 3-4 knots
in cruise and my CHTs dropped 20-25 degrees. My leaned out cruise CHTs at
2500 rpm and 7500 ft&nbs p;were 325 deg F yesterday with the OAT around
freezing. On a 1500 fpm climb out I did not get above 350 on any cylinder.
Before the changes I would sometimes need to push the nose down when I got
to around 380 on #3. The cosmetic outcome was satisfying enough. The added
performance is gravy.
Joel Haynes
N557XW
Bozeman, MT
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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bution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Ethanol: Was Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
I think we all need to be aware that ethanol in our fuel poses risks other than
sealer for tanks. For one thing it absorbs water so if you store with less than
full tanks, you will gain some H2O in them and never now it with a sump test.
Far as that goes, if it rains on your bird you will have no way to know if
water in tanks because the ethanol will hide it.? Another thing is it likes to
eat rubber and some synthetics. My engine supplier, Superior, specifically rules
out any ethanol use. I was happy using 92 oct mogas here in OR which I tested
ethanol free, but now our legislature has stupidly mandated 10% ethanol year
round in the the entire state. So it's 100LL for me, I just don't feel like
messing with ethanol...
My dime,
Jerry
From: JFLEISC@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer?
My RV-4 fuel tanks are 18 years old and starting to leak (I'm the second
owner and one was seeping when I first got it 12 years ago). Its time to take
them off and reseal them. Has anyone had any luck with any sealer that will
stand up to the alcohol in auto gas? What does that RV-3 team that runs on
methanol use? Thanks.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | WOW - What a difference |
Hi Tim,
What have you done to prove the accuracy of your temp gauges? I would do
some serious laboratory type testing of my entire CHT gauge system if I had
your results. Take an oven thermometer and your CHT probe, rig up cooking
oil in a small deep pan. Set up a steady support to hold the pan next to the
engine where the probe will reach. The heat source does not need to be close
to the engine, just move the pan over when it is up to 350 F. Drop the probe
in and check your instrument panel, give it time to stabilize. While you are
waiting you can recheck the oven thermometer to monitor its reading. Cooking
oil can test up to 400 F for sure. I would also test the oven thermometer in
boiling water for 212 F before I went to the plane.
I am looking forward to the day you tell us this problem is solved! Good
luck!
Dale
RV6a 990 hrs
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Bobby,
I have posted about this many times. My oil temps have always been way too
low around 165 with a door mostly closed behind the oil cooler mounted on
the back of the baffles like the drawings. My CHT's have always been very
high. This last summer I was pushing 478 after climb out and I reduce
throttle and RPM as soon as I reach about 500 feet AGL. In cruise I was
getting more like 430 to 450. I installed baffles and managed to get the
climb out down to 458 and the cruise to 420. Obviously I see lower numbers
in cooler temps like I posted below, but it still isn't very good. I have
yet to find anything that would make mine so much different than other RV's.
Tim
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
Hi Dale,
Keep in mind that the boiling temp of water is altitude dependent...
Higher field altitude, lower boiling point. Here in Albuquerque @
5000ft, we would never see 212F before water starts boiling away!
FWIW,
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Walter
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Tim,
What have you done to prove the accuracy of your temp gauges? I would
do some serious laboratory type testing of my entire CHT gauge system if
I had your results. Take an oven thermometer and your CHT probe, rig up
cooking oil in a small deep pan. Set up a steady support to hold the pan
next to the engine where the probe will reach. The heat source does not
need to be close to the engine, just move the pan over when it is up to
350 F. Drop the probe in and check your instrument panel, give it time
to stabilize. While you are waiting you can recheck the oven thermometer
to monitor its reading. Cooking oil can test up to 400 F for sure. I
would also test the oven thermometer in boiling water for 212 F before I
went to the plane.
I am looking forward to the day you tell us this problem is solved!
Good luck!
Dale
RV6a 990 hrs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:41 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Bobby,
I have posted about this many times. My oil temps have always been
way too low around 165 with a door mostly closed behind the oil cooler
mounted on the back of the baffles like the drawings. My CHT's have
always been very high. This last summer I was pushing 478 after climb
out and I reduce throttle and RPM as soon as I reach about 500 feet AGL.
In cruise I was getting more like 430 to 450. I installed baffles and
managed to get the climb out down to 458 and the cruise to 420.
Obviously I see lower numbers in cooler temps like I posted below, but
it still isn't very good. I have yet to find anything that would make
mine so much different than other RV's.
Tim
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol: Was Alcohol proof fuel tank sealer? |
In a message dated 2/17/2008 3:14:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jerry2dt@aol.com writes:
I think we all need to be aware that ethanol in our fuel poses risks other
than sealer for tanks. For one thing it absorbs water so if you store with
less than full tanks, you will gain some H2O in them and never now it with a
sump test. Far as that goes, if it rains on your bird you will have no way to
know if water in tanks because the ethanol will hide it. Another thing is it
likes to eat rubber and some synthetics. My engine supplier, Superior,
specifically rules out any ethanol use. I was happy using 92 oct mogas here in
OR
which I tested ethanol free, but now our legislature has stupidly mandated 10%
ethanol year round in the the entire state. So it's 100LL for me, I just
don't feel like messing with ethanol...
My dime,
Jerry
I'm afraid I don't understand the water thing. My wife's plane got a load of
water in one of the tanks when I didn't get the cap on right. When we came to
fly it next weekend I had to drain several cup fulls of water out of the
sump 'till it ran clear just like any other preflight. The water was obvious to
me, no mystery. My RV-4 and particularly hers (with a Cont 0-300D which was
designed to run on 80 octane) seem to run much better on no-lead. I haven't
had any exhaust valve issues since switching to no lead about half dozen years
ago. Had the engine apart recently on my 0-360 (due to a prop strike) and it
was particularly clean inside. I too had worries about the carburetor but
after examining every part could find no anomalies. My engine builder (that
would be me) hasn't ruled out any "experimenting".
The 'O' rings on the fuel tank caps did swell however. For twice the price
of a set of 2 Van's replacement rings I bought a bag of 100 (smallest order I
could get) Buna-n rings figuring I could replace them every few months for the
rest of my life. Problem is, they won't swell. Still on the original 2 after
4 years. I have been careful to keep an eye on things but haven't had any
issues other than the tanks. That's why I wanted to get some input from anyone
who has also withstood the test of time.
Jim
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference (Cooling/Plenums) |
Pictures Please!
Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
> As a side note, it was humid here in N. GA this morning. Humid enough
> that I pulled prop contrails for the entire length of my takeoff roll
> and probably another 3,000 feet down the runway on climb-out. It was
> kinda neat seeing a swirling vortex wrapped around the airplane...
>
> KB
>
john
Message 18
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| Subject: | LOE - Land of Enchantment Fly-In (5T6) - Dona Ana County, Santa |
Teresa, NM
Has a date been set for LOE 2008?
Richard Reynolds
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: WOW - What a difference |
Konrad is correct, Here in Jackson Hole Wy, @ 6500' msl water boils at a
bout 186 f.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net> wrote:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:of
fice" />Hi Dale,Keep in mind that the boiling temp of water is altitude
dependent... Higher field altitude, lower boiling point. Here in Albuque
rque @ 5000ft, we would never see 212F before water starts boiling away!
FWIW,Konrad----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Walter To: rv-list@m
atronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:18 PMSubject: RE: RV-List
: WOW - What a difference
Hi Tim,
What have you done to prove the accuracy of your temp gauges? I would do
some serious laboratory type testing of my entire CHT gauge system if I
had your results. Take an oven thermometer and your CHT probe, rig up c
ooking oil in a small deep pan. Set up a steady support to hold the pan
next to the engine where the probe will reach. The heat source does not
need to be close to the engine, just move the pan over when it is up to
350 F. Drop the probe in and check your instrument panel, give it time t
o stabilize. While you are waiting you can recheck the oven thermometer
to monitor its reading. Cooking oil can test up to 400 F for sure. I wou
ld also test the oven thermometer in boiling water for 212 F before I we
nt to the plane.
I am looking forward to the day you tell us this problem is solved! Good
luck!
Dale
RV6a 990 hrs
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:41 PM
ice:smarttags" />rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Bobby,
I have posted about this many times. My oil temps have always been way
too low around 165 with a door mostly closed behind the oil cooler mount
ed on the back of the baffles like the drawings. My CHT=C2=92s have alw
ays been very high. This last summer I was pushing 478 after climb out
and I reduce throttle and RPM as soon as I reach about 500 feet AGL. In
cruise I was getting more like 430 to 450. I installed baffles and man
aged to get the climb out down to 458 and the cruise to 420. Obviously
I see lower numbers in cooler temps like I posted below, but it still is
n=C2=92t very good. I have yet to find anything that would make mine so
much different than other RV=C2=92s.
Tim
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://ww
========================
-========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
======
_____________________________________________________________
Free information on hiring a Business Consulting Service. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4twAsiQ6vVGa2dibGxW
bvUH2EvHXTQsx8dY9JY3WWJANzzfV/
Message 20
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| Subject: | LOE - Land of Enchantment Fly-In (5T6) - Dona Ana County, |
Santa Teresa, NM
It is not on the calendar yet.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/calendar.php?month=10&year 08&c
=1&do=displaymonth
Keep your eye on http://www.vansairforce.com/community/index.php for it to
be announced.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,080 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> To: rv-list@matronics.com; rv10-list@matronics.com
> From: rvreynolds@macs.net
> Subject: RV-List: LOE - Land of Enchantment Fly-In (5T6) - Dona Ana Count
y, Santa Teresa, NM
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:53:42 -0500
>
>
> Has a date been set for LOE 2008?
>
> Richard Reynolds
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
Message 21
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| Subject: | WOW - What a difference |
Just for a data point, my CHT is in the VM1000 and I don't have great faith
in this system. I will perform this test tomorrow and report back.
Tim
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Walter
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Tim,
What have you done to prove the accuracy of your temp gauges? I would do
some serious laboratory type testing of my entire CHT gauge system if I had
your results. Take an oven thermometer and your CHT probe, rig up cooking
oil in a small deep pan. Set up a steady support to hold the pan next to the
engine where the probe will reach. The heat source does not need to be close
to the engine, just move the pan over when it is up to 350 F. Drop the probe
in and check your instrument panel, give it time to stabilize. While you are
waiting you can recheck the oven thermometer to monitor its reading. Cooking
oil can test up to 400 F for sure. I would also test the oven thermometer in
boiling water for 212 F before I went to the plane.
I am looking forward to the day you tell us this problem is solved! Good
luck!
Dale
RV6a 990 hrs
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: WOW - What a difference
Hi Bobby,
I have posted about this many times. My oil temps have always been way too
low around 165 with a door mostly closed behind the oil cooler mounted on
the back of the baffles like the drawings. My CHT's have always been very
high. This last summer I was pushing 478 after climb out and I reduce
throttle and RPM as soon as I reach about 500 feet AGL. In cruise I was
getting more like 430 to 450. I installed baffles and managed to get the
climb out down to 458 and the cruise to 420. Obviously I see lower numbers
in cooler temps like I posted below, but it still isn't very good. I have
yet to find anything that would make mine so much different than other RV's.
Tim
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