Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Re: RV-7 tipup finish kitsearchable inventory list? (Mario Nolte)
2. 08:36 AM - Pre-presurizing the oil system (Tim Bryan)
3. 09:59 AM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (linn Walters)
4. 12:15 PM - Subaru down (Bill Judge)
5. 12:51 PM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (linn Walters)
6. 01:02 PM - Re: Subaru down (Kevin Horton)
7. 01:04 PM - Re: ELT aux antenna ()
8. 01:34 PM - ELT aux antenna (James H Nelson)
9. 01:42 PM - Re: Subaru down (Tracy Crook)
10. 01:51 PM - RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell)
11. 01:59 PM - Re: Subaru down (Ron Lee)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (Tim Bryan)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (linn Walters)
14. 02:31 PM - Re: Subaru down (linn Walters)
15. 02:57 PM - The Risks: was : Subaru down (Ed Anderson)
16. 03:12 PM - Risk Tolerance: Subaru down (Ed Anderson)
17. 03:16 PM - Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Kevin Horton)
18. 03:19 PM - Re: Subaru down (scott bilinski)
19. 03:25 PM - Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Kevin Horton)
20. 04:26 PM - Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Tracy Crook)
21. 04:28 PM - Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Tracy Crook)
22. 05:45 PM - Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb (Kevin Horton)
23. 05:53 PM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (Kevin Horton)
24. 06:11 PM - Prop indexing (Wheeler North)
25. 06:24 PM - Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system (linn Walters)
26. 07:47 PM - Re: Subaru down (Bill Schlatterer)
27. 09:19 PM - Re: Subaru down (mike humphrey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 tipup finish kitsearchable inventory list? |
Hi Charlie,
just ask vans, I got a .txt for empennage and wings by return mail.
Kind regards
Mario
Message 2
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| Subject: | Pre-presurizing the oil system |
I have a pressure pot and need to pre-pressurize the oil system on a
Lycoming IO540 (no, this isn't in my RV-6). My question is where is the
best place to connect the hose from the pressure pot to make sure we get
oiling throughout the engine and not just dumped into the pan. I was
thinking the oil pressure gage port but not sure what gets bypassed. The
repair was a top overhaul only so oiling the bottom wouldn't be as
necessary, but I suspect that is the end of the oil chain anyway.
Thanks
Tim
RV-6
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system |
Message 4
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Virtual RV land:
It seems an Eggenfeller had a forced landing. The blurb pasted in at
the bottom is from Vans first flight web page.
My condolences to Roger Evenson, I really am sorry about what
happened. Please don't take offense at my opinions.
It breaks my heart to hear about these incidents. Anyone seriously
considering these engines needs to think long and hard about the
accident rate associated with these engines.
I helped a builder who had serious trouble keeping his CHT's down on a
garden variety lyc 360 RV-7. He was running nearly 450 F on climb
out. He made some changes and everything is in line now. This is a
well defined installation with step by step instructions but the
builder still had issues that could have led to failure.
I'm not being critical of this builder but my point is that even with
a well defined off the shelf installation there are many pitfalls that
you have to be careful of. With a completely new design there going
to be many lessons learned that will come out only when the design
sees actual service. In short the "right" way to run and install the
Subaru still is unknown, if it was then the guy at the bottom of this
message wouldn't be building another plane right now.
There are people that are well suited to establishing new designs and
there are people who want to fly blissfully planes places.
I know it is closed minded and counter to the mentality of most of us
experimental builders but I don't see the risk reward benefit in using
the Subaru engine compared to an IO-360 with electronic ignition.
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8 210 hrs.
rv-8.blogspot.com
From: Roger Evenson
To: webmaster@vansaircraft.com
Subject: first flight report
Date sent: Mon, 03 Mar 2008
RV Grin
With Darwin Barrie and Glenn Brasch flying chase in Darwin's RV7, the
first flight for 394RS occurred on 5/2/07 at KRYN, Tucson, Arizona.
This "farm tractor", a 9A (90534) was powered by a supercharged,
Eggenfellner EJ-25. First flight was a fabulous experience and a very
sweet ride. Many thanks to my wife Susie, bucking buddy Glenn, tech
counselor Gil Alexander, Charles Wilhite, Dan Watters and many others.
These things can't be built without lots of support.
RV Frown
With 50 hours on the Hobbs, and shortly after takeoff on 6/29/07, an
overboost (40" MAP) resulted in loss of engine power, and an
off-airport landing. Though the mains touched down on solid desert,
they soon encountered a mound of soft earth and a root which threw the
plane forward. A very quick nose-over followed. I thank the Lord (and
Van's design) for getting out with only a scratch. Charles' composite
canopy also did it's job, absorbing lots of energy. Now building a 7A
and looking forward to another first flight.
Roger Evenson
[ revenson at comcast.net ]
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system |
Message 6
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On 5 Mar 2008, at 15:11, Bill Judge wrote:
>
> I know it is closed minded and counter to the mentality of most of us
> experimental builders but I don't see the risk reward benefit in using
> the Subaru engine compared to an IO-360 with electronic ignition.
>
I agree that people installing alternate engines or propellers need
to have a realistic understanding of the increased risks they are
undertaking. But, if they really do understand those risks, it is a
bit presumpstious of us to try to tell them to install a Lycoming
instead. After all, the accident rate during the flight test phase
on RVs is quite a bit higher than the first 40 hours that a new owner
does in his Cessna. If we are really concerned about risk, why
aren't we all flying Cessnas?
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Finishing Kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ELT aux antenna |
I ran into that a little with the ACK portable ELT antenna that clips on. It's
just a chrome telescoping antenna you can attach if you remove the ELT for portable
use. It never came loose but I could see it was not super secure.
I safety wired it with some thin copper wire, you can break, if you pull hard
enough, but it's strong enough to keep the antenna from getting lost in the tail
cone. G
---------------------------------
Message 8
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George,
He could use some electrical tape to keep it secured. A half a
dozen wraps will keep it there longer than he needs.
Jim
Message 9
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All true Bill,
I spend about as much time trying to talk builders out of alternative
engines (even the one I use) as I do helping them with advice on how to
install them.
It's very amusing to read the various alternative engine company websites
that talk about their proven reliability, numbers sold (total fiction
usually) and how you can fly your loved ones with complete confidence when
using their products. IMO, if you install an alternative engine in your
airplane, you are a test pilot flying what truly is an experimental aircraft
in every sense of the word.
I usually don't say this to builders who call me because I don't want them
to think I'm insulting them but being on an open forum makes it easier.
FWIW, If you have to ask someone if you should put an alternative engine
in your plane, you shouldn't.
If it's a good idea for you, you don't have to ask and no one could possibly
talk you out of it.
Tracy Crook
Mazda 13B rotary powered RV-4, 20B powered RV-8
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Bill Judge <bjudge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Virtual RV land:
> It seems an Eggenfeller had a forced landing. The blurb pasted in at
> the bottom is from Vans first flight web page.
>
> My condolences to Roger Evenson, I really am sorry about what
> happened. Please don't take offense at my opinions.
>
> It breaks my heart to hear about these incidents. Anyone seriously
> considering these engines needs to think long and hard about the
> accident rate associated with these engines.
>
> I helped a builder who had serious trouble keeping his CHT's down on a
> garden variety lyc 360 RV-7. He was running nearly 450 F on climb
> out. He made some changes and everything is in line now. This is a
> well defined installation with step by step instructions but the
> builder still had issues that could have led to failure.
>
> I'm not being critical of this builder but my point is that even with
> a well defined off the shelf installation there are many pitfalls that
> you have to be careful of. With a completely new design there going
> to be many lessons learned that will come out only when the design
> sees actual service. In short the "right" way to run and install the
> Subaru still is unknown, if it was then the guy at the bottom of this
> message wouldn't be building another plane right now.
>
> There are people that are well suited to establishing new designs and
> there are people who want to fly blissfully planes places.
>
> I know it is closed minded and counter to the mentality of most of us
> experimental builders but I don't see the risk reward benefit in using
> the Subaru engine compared to an IO-360 with electronic ignition.
>
> Bill Judge
> N84WJ, RV-8 210 hrs.
> rv-8.blogspot.com
>
>
> From: Roger Evenson
> To: webmaster@vansaircraft.com
> Subject: first flight report
> Date sent: Mon, 03 Mar 2008
>
> RV Grin
>
> With Darwin Barrie and Glenn Brasch flying chase in Darwin's RV7, the
> first flight for 394RS occurred on 5/2/07 at KRYN, Tucson, Arizona.
> This "farm tractor", a 9A (90534) was powered by a supercharged,
> Eggenfellner EJ-25. First flight was a fabulous experience and a very
> sweet ride. Many thanks to my wife Susie, bucking buddy Glenn, tech
> counselor Gil Alexander, Charles Wilhite, Dan Watters and many others.
> These things can't be built without lots of support.
>
> RV Frown
>
> With 50 hours on the Hobbs, and shortly after takeoff on 6/29/07, an
> overboost (40" MAP) resulted in loss of engine power, and an
> off-airport landing. Though the mains touched down on solid desert,
> they soon encountered a mound of soft earth and a root which threw the
> plane forward. A very quick nose-over followed. I thank the Lord (and
> Van's design) for getting out with only a scratch. Charles' composite
> canopy also did it's job, absorbing lots of energy. Now building a 7A
> and looking forward to another first flight.
>
>
> Roger Evenson
> [ revenson at comcast.net ]
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
We have a RV-7 with O0360 and FP prop (72-85).
We are in the phase I process and measuring various speeds using the
2000 ft to 3000 ft and stopwatch metnod.
We get best glide at about 85 knots which seems about right.
However we are having difficulties getting consistant climb speeds due
to thermals and wind shears.
Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
around 70 knots.
What are other RV-7s with O360s and FPP getting?
Thanks.
Roger
Message 11
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> I agree that people installing alternate engines or propellers need
> to have a realistic understanding of the increased risks they are
> undertaking. But, if they really do understand those risks, it is a
> bit presumpstious of us to try to tell them to install a Lycoming
> instead. After all, the accident rate during the flight test phase
> on RVs is quite a bit higher than the first 40 hours that a new owner
> does in his Cessna. If we are really concerned about risk, why
> aren't we all flying Cessnas?
Do they understand the risk or is it some infatuation with an auto
conversion and cheaper auto fuel? Was the RV-10 that crashed
with one fatality using an auto engine?
I will admit that I am biased against some things and one is auto
engines in aircraft. I won't fly in one or buy one.
Ron Lee
Message 12
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| Subject: | Pre-presurizing the oil system |
Linn, did you have an idea to add to this? Your posts came up empty twice.
Tim
Do Not Archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:49 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-presurizing the oil system
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system |
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>Linn, did you have an idea to add to this? Your posts came up empty twice.
>Tim
>Do Not Archive
>
Don't know what's going on!!! That's the first time it's happened to me!!!
On the front of the engine you'll find two (one each side) 1/4" plugs
with an allen wrench hole. Adapt from the pressure pot and hook it in
there.
Linn
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:49 PM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-presurizing the oil system
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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My 2 pennies. YMMV
The cause of this accident would have been the same if it had occurred
on a turboed Lycosaur. The engine over boosted due to a failure of
something related to the turbo. What that was, I don't know ......
wastegate malfunction??? I don't know much about the specifics of the
Subaru turbo system so someone more knowledgeable than me will have to
cover that ground.
Indicting alternate engines just because of a system failure is like not
using tires on the car because they blow out sometimes.
Crap happens ..... I've had two Lycosaurs that let me down. Not one
'alternative engine' has done that. But having said all that, my -10
will have a IO-540 up front. Not because I'm down on alternative
engines ...... I just don't want to do all the work to put something
else up there.
Linn
do not archive
Message 15
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>
> I agree that people installing alternate engines or propellers need
> to have a realistic understanding of the increased risks they are
> undertaking. But, if they really do understand those risks, it is a
> bit presumpstious of us to try to tell them to install a Lycoming
> instead. After all, the accident rate during the flight test phase
> on RVs is quite a bit higher than the first 40 hours that a new owner
> does in his Cessna. If we are really concerned about risk, why
> aren't we all flying Cessnas?
> Kevin Horton
Well put, Kevin
I have flown my rotary powered RV-6A for 10 years now. There is no
question that there is an added element of risk when you are performing
your own Design, Research and Development and Testing rather than
relying on a company who has spent $$$$ on same.
I go back far enough when I can remember when the GA crowd considered
anybody building/flying an experimental a bit crazy. Now the alternate
engine guys are considered crazy by many of the experimental aircraft
crowd - so I guess that makes us a subset of the crazies {:>).
Building "experimental" aircraft is nowhere near the risk it used to be
thanks to a number of well proven designs to choose from. Lets face it
- most experimentals flying now are really assembled kit-planes
including mine. However, experimental engines have been part of
experimental aircraft going back to the Ford powered pietenpol and
beyond. Given the increasing cost of certified engines it is not
surprising that some probably set on the alternative engine track
thinking they are going to save a bunch of money - you can install a
safe alternative engine for less than a new Lycoming, however, if you
consider a rebuilt Lycoming (for example) then the price differential
can narrow considerably.
In all seriousness, rolling your own engine installation requires
knowledge, understanding and execution in a number of different areas
where anything less than getting it correct can be "rewarded" with that
dreaded dead silence after take off. My personal opinion is that there
are two classes of folks who are currently installing alternative
engines. Those who "roll their own" and those who purchased FWF kits.
Most (but not all) who attempt to "roll their own" quickly realize the
magnitude of the task required to design, conduct FEMA, fabricate,
install and successfully test and operate all the required subsystems
either buckled down to the task OR realize the task is beyond their
knowledge, experience and skill level and go to other options.
One option is to purchase a FWF kit - nothing wrong with that in itself
- but, one must realize that no alternative engine provider that I am
aware of has the decades of information that a certified engine
manufacture does to make their design safer over time. So if you
recognize that as an individual that you perhaps do not have the
knowledge and skills to tackle a "roll you own", then the question is
"Do you have the knowledge to adequately assess the FWF alternative
engine kit you are considering?" Even then you still have to install
the package successfully.
We all know that even given the 1000 of installations of Lycomings in
RVs that there are still an unfortunate few who encounter that dreaded
period of silence - it does not take much of a mistake or error for that
to happen. It is much easier for that mistake to happen with an
non-standard installation of an alternative engine - where yours is
likely the first such installation. Some people have attempted to
alleviate there lack of knowledge by "copying" another successful
installation of an alternative engine - one thing we have found out is
that unless it is an exact duplication in every aspect - its a
completely different system and may have failure modes induced with each
and every change made that differ from the "successful" installation. .
I have had numerous discussion over the past 10 years with individuals
about the advisability of putting an alternative engine in their
project. I normally attempt to discourage such attempts. Even with my
successful 10 years of flying behind a rotary, there were times,
particularly in the early days, when I wondered why in the h---- I
didn't just stick a Lycoming in the bird.
I tell folks that if you really like to experiment, are something of a
GearHead and can put up with repeated frustration and problem solving
then an alternative engine might be your cup of tea. However, if what
you are really interested in is flying - then do yourself a favor and
install a Lycoming (or equivalent) and go enjoy flying.
But, if you are going to go down the alternative road, do yourself a
favor and sign on to the email list of your favorite candidate engine
(these list are out there), lurk, ask questions and listen to get an
idea of what you are considering chewing off. Its very easy to make a
claim - check into any such claims, ask tough questions - its your butt
you'll be risking. Remember what you mom told you "if it sounds too
good to be true......"
Just my opinion of course
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
Message 16
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> Do they understand the risk or is it some infatuation with an auto
> conversion and cheaper auto fuel? Was the RV-10 that crashed
> with one fatality using an auto engine?
>
> I will admit that I am biased against some things and one is auto
> engines in aircraft. I won't fly in one or buy one.
> Ron Lee
>
Nothing wrong being biased against something that can add more risk to an
activity that is already a bit more risky than sitting on the couch watching
TV [:>).
But, risk tolerance is certainly a personal and relative thing. Ever known
someone who thought it was too risky to even fly on an airliner or get on a
motorcycle or sky-dive. Sky-Dive!! You couldn't pay me enough to jump out
of a perfectly good airplane for the fun of it!! But, I've no problem
flying behind my rotary powered RV-6A since 1998. I think a large part of
it is how much "control" do we think we have over a situation.
I can recall a number of decades back when most pilots flying Spam Cans
would have made the same statement about getting in an experimental aircraft
and there are still some who won't. I always tell folks, if you don't feel
comfortable about it - you are probably pushing your risk tolerance envelope
and that is seldom a wise thing to do.
Fortunately, in this country we are permitted to make those risk tolerance
decisions as they best suit each of us - hopefully, with an informed
understanding of what the risk really is.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
On 5 Mar 2008, at 16:44, Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell wrote:
> <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> We have a RV-7 with O0360 and FP prop (72-85).
>
> We are in the phase I process and measuring various speeds using
> the 2000 ft to 3000 ft and stopwatch metnod.
>
> We get best glide at about 85 knots which seems about right.
>
> However we are having difficulties getting consistant climb speeds
> due to thermals and wind shears.
>
> Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
> around 70 knots.
>
> What are other RV-7s with O360s and FPP getting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Roger
>
>
Message 18
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I monitor the Eggenfelner E-mail list. He stated this accident happened right after
a non Eggenfelener ignition and injection system was installed.
Scott
RV-8a Lycoming!
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Judge <bjudge@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 12:11:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: Subaru down
Virtual RV land:
It seems an Eggenfeller had a forced landing. The blurb pasted in at
the bottom is from Vans first flight web page.
My condolences to Roger Evenson, I really am sorry about what
happened. Please don't take offense at my opinions.
It breaks my heart to hear about these incidents. Anyone seriously
considering these engines needs to think long and hard about the
accident rate associated with these engines.
I helped a builder who had serious trouble keeping his CHT's down on a
garden variety lyc 360 RV-7. He was running nearly 450 F on climb
out. He made some changes and everything is in line now. This is a
well defined installation with step by step instructions but the
builder still had issues that could have led to failure.
I'm not being critical of this builder but my point is that even with
a well defined off the shelf installation there are many pitfalls that
you have to be careful of. With a completely new design there going
to be many lessons learned that will come out only when the design
sees actual service. In short the "right" way to run and install the
Subaru still is unknown, if it was then the guy at the bottom of this
message wouldn't be building another plane right now.
There are people that are well suited to establishing new designs and
there are people who want to fly blissfully planes places.
I know it is closed minded and counter to the mentality of most of us
experimental builders but I don't see the risk reward benefit in using
the Subaru engine compared to an IO-360 with electronic ignition.
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8 210 hrs.
rv-8.blogspot.com
From: Roger Evenson
Subject: first flight report
Date sent: Mon, 03 Mar 2008
RV Grin
With Darwin Barrie and Glenn Brasch flying chase in Darwin's RV7, the
first flight for 394RS occurred on 5/2/07 at KRYN, Tucson, Arizona.
This "farm tractor", a 9A (90534) was powered by a supercharged,
Eggenfellner EJ-25. First flight was a fabulous experience and a very
sweet ride. Many thanks to my wife Susie, bucking buddy Glenn, tech
counselor Gil Alexander, Charles Wilhite, Dan Watters and many others.
These things can't be built without lots of support.
RV Frown
With 50 hours on the Hobbs, and shortly after takeoff on 6/29/07, an
overboost (40" MAP) resulted in loss of engine power, and an
off-airport landing. Though the mains touched down on solid desert,
they soon encountered a mound of soft earth and a root which threw the
plane forward. A very quick nose-over followed. I thank the Lord (and
Van's design) for getting out with only a scratch. Charles' composite
canopy also did it's job, absorbing lots of energy. Now building a 7A
and looking forward to another first flight.
Roger Evenson
[ revenson at comcast.net ]
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
On 5 Mar 2008, at 16:44, Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell wrote:
> <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> We have a RV-7 with O0360 and FP prop (72-85).
>
> We are in the phase I process and measuring various speeds using
> the 2000 ft to 3000 ft and stopwatch metnod.
>
> We get best glide at about 85 knots which seems about right.
>
> However we are having difficulties getting consistant climb speeds
> due to thermals and wind shears.
>
> Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
> around 70 knots.
I can't help you with any comparative performance, but I can offer
some comments that might help you get better data. At low altitudes,
such as 2000 to 3000 ft, there is little hope of getting good data
except in a short period after sunrise. As soon as the thermals
start there is no point in trying to do any more low altitude
performance flight testing. If you want good data you need to be
cranking the engine when the sun peeks above the horizon. In the
summer that will mean a very early start, but it is the only way to
get smooth air. On some days you might only get 30 minutes of
testing before you can start to feel the light bumps from thermals,
while on other days you might get several hours of testing. Mornings
with a high overcast are the best, as that reduces the amount of sun
heating the ground, which delays the start of the thermals. Once you
can start to feel any perceptible turbulence from thermals, there is
no point in trying to record performance data, as it won't be very
accurate.
Even early in the morning, the wind speed and direction will usually
change with altitude, and this affects the results. You can minimize
the errors induced by wind change with altitude by doing two runs at
each climb speed, with the two runs on headings that differ by 180
degrees. The effect of wind on the two runs will be in the opposite
sense, so if you average the rates of climb you will mostly cancel
out the effects of this wind shear.
Good luck,
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Finishing Kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
My guess is:
Best glide seems to be higher than Vy on my RV-4 (or most any airplane with
a FP prop) because the higher airspeed allows the engine to turn faster and
make more power. This more than makes up for the increased drag at the
higher speed (up to a certain point of course). A CS prop changes the
picture.
Your numbers are almost identical to mine.
Tracy Crook
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell <
lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> We have a RV-7 with O0360 and FP prop (72-85).
>
> We are in the phase I process and measuring various speeds using the
> 2000 ft to 3000 ft and stopwatch metnod.
>
> We get best glide at about 85 knots which seems about right.
>
> However we are having difficulties getting consistant climb speeds due
> to thermals and wind shears.
>
> Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
> around 70 knots.
>
> What are other RV-7s with O360s and FPP getting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Roger
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
Opps, that should have read "Best glide seems to be LOWER than Vy"
T.C.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
wrote:
> My guess is:
> Best glide seems to be higher than Vy on my RV-4 (or most any airplane
> with a FP prop) because the higher airspeed allows the engine to turn faster
> and make more power. This more than makes up for the increased drag at the
> higher speed (up to a certain point of course). A CS prop changes the
> picture.
>
> Your numbers are almost identical to mine.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell <
> lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
> >
> > We have a RV-7 with O0360 and FP prop (72-85).
> >
> > We are in the phase I process and measuring various speeds using the
> > 2000 ft to 3000 ft and stopwatch metnod.
> >
> > We get best glide at about 85 knots which seems about right.
> >
> > However we are having difficulties getting consistant climb speeds due
> > to thermals and wind shears.
> >
> > Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
> > around 70 knots.
> >
> > What are other RV-7s with O360s and FPP getting?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Best climb and rate of climb |
On 5 Mar 2008, at 16:44, Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell wrote:
> <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> Vy seems to be 90 to 95 knots(seems high) with best rate of climb
> around 70 knots.
One more thing: we either have a typo here, or a terminology
problem. Vy is the speed for best rate of climb.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Finishing Kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system |
I don't know why this happens, but every once in a while some
messages appear empty. But, there is often content that can be seen
if you can select an option in your mail program to view raw source.
On Safari on OS X, you go to the View menu, select Message -> Raw
Source. Both Linn's messages had content if you did that.
Kevin Horton
On 5 Mar 2008, at 16:54, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Linn, did you have an idea to add to this? Your posts came up
> empty twice.
> Tim
> Do Not Archive
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:49 PM
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-presurizing the oil system
>>
Message 24
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All great comments, and some really interesting data.
However, possibly some might have missed the gist of my post. The prop has
varying loads upon it in torque and the crankshaft also has varying loads on
it in torque.
The longer the crankshaft (and more power it is producing) the more likely
that the aft end might be doing something different than the front end, and
this will not be measured by external sensing.
Drive gears, crankshafts, cam shafts and magnetos throughout the years have
occasionally had problems that were traced back to this. The fix was varied
and in some cases called for highly modified counter weighted crankshafts.
Somewhere, years ago, pre-internet, I saw footage of a crankshaft flexing
30degs from stem to stern at a high power/rpm setting as it went into
longitudinal resonance. It is really amazing to see that tough a piece of
steel turn into a wet noodle.
There are many things that can be additive or not in a resonance problem,
but cyclical pulsing of the load and of the input are big ones. By
reindexing you will be moving the phase of those load/input cycles and the
engine may get smoother. But is that because you got lucky or because the
crankshaft is now absorbing that vibration in an unsafe manner???
The shorter four cylinder engines seem to not be as prone to this, but I'm
pretty sure that the testing which was done on your engine was done in one
indexed position, if indexed on any other position then you are conducting
test flights every time you fly it.
If doing this makes you less uncomfortable than the slightly increased
vibration did, then you are an adult capable of decision making. In my mind
it an easy choice, but then I have a solid nose crank that seems to be about
as smooth as it gets, and I all I did was build the engine right before I
screwed a prop on it.
Condolences to friends, colleagues and family of the lost ones in FL. While
we try our best to make better what we can, sadly there is no cure for a
millisecond of exceptionally bad luck.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Pre-presurizing the oil system |
Also works with Netscape!!!
Thanks Kevin!!!
Linn
do not archive
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> I don't know why this happens, but every once in a while some
> messages appear empty. But, there is often content that can be seen
> if you can select an option in your mail program to view raw source.
> On Safari on OS X, you go to the View menu, select Message -> Raw
> Source. Both Linn's messages had content if you did that.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
Message 26
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Kevin Horton said,.. "If we are really concerned about risk, why aren't we
all flying Cessnas? "
Answer: Risk versus Reward,....... We all think the Reward outweighs the
Risk,...not that there isn't any! Kinda like the stock market but we're
betting our butts and not our buns ;-)
Bill S
7a wannabe flying soon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Subaru down
On 5 Mar 2008, at 15:11, Bill Judge wrote:
>
> I know it is closed minded and counter to the mentality of most of us
> experimental builders but I don't see the risk reward benefit in using
> the Subaru engine compared to an IO-360 with electronic ignition.
>
I agree that people installing alternate engines or propellers need to have
a realistic understanding of the increased risks they are undertaking. But,
if they really do understand those risks, it is a bit presumpstious of us to
try to tell them to install a Lycoming instead. After all, the accident
rate during the flight test phase on RVs is quite a bit higher than the
first 40 hours that a new owner does in his Cessna. If we are really
concerned about risk, why aren't we all flying Cessnas?
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (Finishing Kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 27
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Whatever happened to the Honda piston A/C engine? I bet that if they were
to manufacture it, that they'd have lines of people at the door. Most would
be Lyco owners. I'd be one of the first.
Mike H
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn Walters" <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Subaru down
>
> My 2 pennies. YMMV
>
> The cause of this accident would have been the same if it had occurred on
> a turboed Lycosaur. The engine over boosted due to a failure of something
> related to the turbo. What that was, I don't know ...... wastegate
> malfunction??? I don't know much about the specifics of the Subaru turbo
> system so someone more knowledgeable than me will have to cover that
> ground.
>
> Indicting alternate engines just because of a system failure is like not
> using tires on the car because they blow out sometimes.
> Crap happens ..... I've had two Lycosaurs that let me down. Not one
> 'alternative engine' has done that. But having said all that, my -10 will
> have a IO-540 up front. Not because I'm down on alternative engines
> ...... I just don't want to do all the work to put something else up
> there.
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>
>
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