Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Re: Nuclear Energy (glen matejcek)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Nuclear Energy (Chuck Jensen)
3. 10:57 AM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (bert murillo)
4. 10:58 AM - Altrac... best price? (bert murillo)
5. 11:53 AM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (Sam Buchanan)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (John Jessen)
7. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Death of the RV-12] (ptrotter@optonline.net)
8. 01:41 PM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (Sam Buchanan)
9. 02:04 PM - autopilots (linn Walters)
10. 02:14 PM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (Sam Buchanan)
11. 02:45 PM - Re: autopilots (Sam Buchanan)
12. 03:11 PM - Re: Death of the RV-12] (Paul Trotter)
13. 04:07 PM - Please change the subject line (Was Re: Death of the RV-12] (Ron Lee)
14. 04:31 PM - Re: Please change the subject line (Was Re: Death of the RV-12] (John Jessen)
15. 06:30 PM - Re: Nuclear Energy (Sherman Butler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Nuclear Energy |
A couple quick points- first, as I understand it, there is now and has been
for some time tritium in the Columbia river. This is apparently from the
Navy's ship borne reactor graveyard. Not a direct correlation to the civil
power industry, but an example of a permanent, highly toxic waste leak that
wasn't supposed to happen, and won't get better by itself. Second,
according to a friend who gave up nuclear power for professional aviation
(okay; so his judgement isn't always so hot....) the biggest single real
issue with nuclear power is the hydrogen embrittlement of the basic
structure and plumbing of the equipment. It will all have to be replaced
sooner or later, and what do you do with the scrap?
I'm all for reasonable green and self sufficiency, but what does that mean?
As ever, do not archive this drivel.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Nuclear Energy |
Hi, Glen,
As Jerry Isler pointed out...don't confuse commercial nuclear power with Government
weapons programs. The weapons programs (DOE/DOD) have been a mess and environmental-pig
virtually since day one, though they are doing much better recently.
In contrast, the Commercial Nuclear program is run to an altogether different standard.
Though every industrial process is subject to environmental mishaps,
they are few and far between for the commercial nuclear industry. Nuclear power
plants, particularly pressurized water reactors (PWR) all produce tritium
(hydrogen atom with extra proton) that you mentioned. However, to call tritium
permanent and highly toxic is mistaken on all accounts. With a half-life of
12 years, tritium decays away rapidly which is the reason the Government keeps
wanting to replenish its supply for warheads.
As to it being highly toxic, this is simply not so. The beta radiation given off
by tritium will not penetrate a piece of paper or your skin. It is only of
interest when ingested. Even then, being water based, it is rapidly excreted
from the body...especially if you help it along with a six-pack.
As far as hydrogen embrittlement, it was thought to be a problem but turned out
to be only a "theoretical" problem. A plant in the U.S. and two in Wales (Trawsfynydd)
were shut down and the reactor vessel side walls in the vicinity of
the highest flux area of the reactor, was cored and the stainless steel tested.
There was no embrittlement, at least none that affected the integrity of reactor
vessel. The piping in a nuclear plant will not become embrittled from
neutron bombardment because there are no neutrons anywhere but in the reactor
vessel.
So, reactor embrittlement, like tritium, sound pretty ominous, but neither are
of consequence to the safety of the plant or public. Now, if you would like to
discuss the environmental safety of the DOE sites (Oak Ridge, Hanford, Savannah
River, et al), that's an altogether different animal, but has nothing to do
with commercial nuclear power used to produce electricity, so please don't confuse
the two.
If given the choice to live 10 miles down wind of a coal fired plant or a nuclear
plant, the nuclear plant is the choice by a landslide. The coal fired plant
actually emits more radiation than a nuclear plant because of the natural radioisotopes
in coal that are continuously emitted into the air, along with sulfur,
particulates and a potpourri of other chemicals. Nuclear is represented
to be clean for a reason!
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of glen matejcek
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Nuclear Energy
A couple quick points- first, as I understand it, there is now and has been
for some time tritium in the Columbia river. This is apparently from the
Navy's ship borne reactor graveyard. Not a direct correlation to the civil
power industry, but an example of a permanent, highly toxic waste leak that
wasn't supposed to happen, and won't get better by itself. Second,
according to a friend who gave up nuclear power for professional aviation
(okay; so his judgement isn't always so hot....) the biggest single real
issue with nuclear power is the hydrogen embrittlement of the basic
structure and plumbing of the equipment. It will all have to be replaced
sooner or later, and what do you do with the scrap?
I'm all for reasonable green and self sufficiency, but what does that mean?
As ever, do not archive this drivel.
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
Sam:
I also read the article, and agreed with you..
I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's
suggestion, at the address given.. ;Hope every one
will do so..
On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
unit on your plane (planes?)
Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally,
are you aware of place to buy it, at better price
than todays ...kind of steep for me...2 years ago
was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I wasit
will cost me another $100.....
thanks,,
Bert
rlv6a
--- Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> jhstarn@verizon.net wrote:
> <jhstarn@verizon.net>
> >
> > Subject: Death of the RV-12
> >
> > If you have not yet read the the RVator on line
> you should. The 51%
> > rule, quickbuild kits and the REAL fate of the
> RV-12 are in the
> > balance. Van attempts to put on a "happy face"
> about the FAA latest
> > train wreck but if you read pages 3 thru 7 you get
> a clearer picture.
> > To me it reads as step number one in getting rid
> of the 51% violators
> > by eliminating everyone involved, including those
> who play by the
> > rules. RV-12 ? ?, now only to be built as a
> "clone". No choice of
> > engines, radios, gauges or seat belts AND no
> repairmans certificate
> > either. You get one ONLY by attending the classes.
> I guess I'll take
> > the class so I can qualify IF & WHEN I build
> another airplane. Where
> > did I put all that stuff I had on the S-19 and
> 601XL ? KABONG
>
>
> Let's not be too hasty to sign the death warrant of
> the amateur-built
> RV-12. ;-)
>
> Vans is in a holding pattern until the FAA gets
> their act together and
> releases the new evaluation process of the 51% rule.
> Until that new
> process is released, Vans has no choice other than
> to offer the RV-12 as
> a S-LSA since at this point in time......there is no
> way for ANYONE to
> get a new kit classified as experimental amateur
> built. As soon as the
> FAA releases the new process, you can rest assured
> Vans will make a
> serious effort to offer an E-AB RV-12.
>
> The concern is the FAA may make the new evaluation
> process so
> restrictive that it will be difficult to classify a
> kit that is as
> advanced as the RV-12 as experimental amateur built.
> Nobody knows at
> this point how this will play out. But even if Vans
> can't achieve this
> goal, an individual builder could register an RV-12
> as E-AB provided he
> can demonstrate to a DAR that he built as least 51%
> of the plane, and
> provided Vans offers the RV-12 as an E-AB kit.
>
> We need to sit tight while this matter is resolved
> and not panic...yet.
>
> There was an interesting article in one of the
> Oregon newspapers about
> how the FAA had bungled this process by not
> considering the impact on
> some of Oregon's aircraft revenue (Lancair and
> Epic).
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3a85ch
>
> The article states that the FAA may be taking an
> expedited look at this
> situation with the intent of clarifying things
> somewhat.
>
> But......we're talking about the FAA.........
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Altrac... best price? |
Hi:
Would appreciate any suggestions on buying the Altrac
unit,for best price....
It seems it goes up by the minute,,, what a rip-off
but we do better than the other guys....
thanks
bert
rv6a
do not archive
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
Bert,
I used to fly the AlTrak but switched a couple of years ago to the Trio
EZ-Hold. You probably won't be able to beat TruTrak's price on the
AlTrak. The AlTrak works fine and is a stone-simple unit. If you want a
device with more features you might look at the Trio line, but they will
be more $$$$$'s.
I doubt the AlTrak has ever been $1200.
Sam
===============
bert murillo wrote:
>
> Sam:
>
> I also read the article, and agreed with you..
>
> I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's
> suggestion, at the address given.. ;Hope every one
> will do so..
>
> On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
> unit on your plane (planes?)
>
> Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally,
> are you aware of place to buy it, at better price
> than todays ...kind of steep for me...2 years ago
> was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I wasit
> will cost me another $100.....
>
> thanks,,
>
> Bert
> rlv6a
Message 6
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| Subject: | Death of the RV-12] |
Sam, why did you go the Trio route? I've looked at both TT and Trio to get
a two axis solution. The Trio makes you cut two holes in your panel, which
is somewhat a bummer. Is there some compelling reason for one over the
other? You hear more about TT than Trio, of course.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
Bert,
I used to fly the AlTrak but switched a couple of years ago to the Trio
EZ-Hold. You probably won't be able to beat TruTrak's price on the AlTrak.
The AlTrak works fine and is a stone-simple unit. If you want a device with
more features you might look at the Trio line, but they will be more
$$$$$'s.
I doubt the AlTrak has ever been $1200.
Sam
===============
bert murillo wrote:
>
> Sam:
>
> I also read the article, and agreed with you..
>
> I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's suggestion, at the
> address given.. ;Hope every one will do so..
>
> On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
> unit on your plane (planes?)
>
> Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally, are you aware of
> place to buy it, at better price than todays ...kind of steep for
> me...2 years ago was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I wasit
> will cost me another $100.....
>
> thanks,,
>
> Bert
> rlv6a
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
John,
I expect Trio will come out wiht a single unit dual axis system in the not too
distant future.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
> Sam, why did you go the Trio route? I've looked at both TT and
> Trio to get
> a two axis solution. The Trio makes you cut two holes in your
> panel, which
> is somewhat a bummer. Is there some compelling reason for one
> over the
> other? You hear more about TT than Trio, of course.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:49 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
>
> Bert,
>
> I used to fly the AlTrak but switched a couple of years ago to
> the Trio
> EZ-Hold. You probably won't be able to beat TruTrak's price on
> the AlTrak.
> The AlTrak works fine and is a stone-simple unit. If you want a
> device with
> more features you might look at the Trio line, but they will be more
> $$$$$'s.
>
> I doubt the AlTrak has ever been $1200.
>
> Sam
>
> ===============
>
> bert murillo wrote:
> >
> > Sam:
> >
> > I also read the article, and agreed with you..
> >
> > I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's suggestion,
> at the
> > address given.. ;Hope every one will do so..
> >
> > On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
> > unit on your plane (planes?)
> >
> > Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally, are you
> aware of
> > place to buy it, at better price than todays ...kind of steep
> for
> > me...2 years ago was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I
> wasit
> > will cost me another $100.....
> >
> > thanks,,
> >
> > Bert
> > rlv6a
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
John Jessen wrote:
>
> Sam, why did you go the Trio route? I've looked at both TT and Trio to get
> a two axis solution. The Trio makes you cut two holes in your panel, which
> is somewhat a bummer. Is there some compelling reason for one over the
> other? You hear more about TT than Trio, of course.
>
> John
John, selecting an autopilot hinges on many variables as I'm sure you
have found. My path to Trio equipment has been a process of evolution,
not one giant leap.
My first transition to an EZ-Pilot was facilitated by the way I could
use the Navaid servo already installed in the plane. That and the fact
the EZ-Pilot was light-years ahead of the Navaid made it a simple choice.
When the EZ-Hold came available, I was ready for another upgrade, once
again because it had far more capability than the AlTrak. Having two
separate devices wasn't a problem for me since that it has always been
that way with my panel.
I have come to know the Trio guys personally and they are a top-notch
operation, not only in technical savvy but in business and support
matters. I can't imagine a company being more ethical in dealing with
customers than Trio. There are other good vendors, but my experience
with Trio has been superb.
TruTrak is also a good vendor, and the AlTrak worked fine in my plane.
My transition to Trio was a combination of my circumstances and timing.
Your situation may lead you in different direction, depending on the
mission profile of your plane and what you want to accomplish with your
autopilot installation.
Download the user manuals, do your homework, make the final decision,
and enjoy whichever systems works best for you. :-)
Sam Buchanan
=================
Message 9
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Sam Buchanan wrote:
snip
>
> TruTrak is also a good vendor, and the AlTrak worked fine in my plane.
> My transition to Trio was a combination of my circumstances and timing.
Would you be so kind as to elaborate?
> Download the user manuals, do your homework, make the final decision,
> and enjoy whichever systems works best for you. :-)
All autopilots do the same thing. HOW they do it makes the difference
between a 'good' and 'bad' autopilot. So, without trying each and
everyone of them ..... what criteria can I glean from the user
manuals???? I'll be looking for a 3-axis ..... and so far as I can
figure it out ..... the bottom line is who likes what .... but they
seldom say WHY ..... which makes me think it's all subjective. there
must be something out there to differentiate between manufacturers.
Linn ..... totally confused about the pricey stuff!!
do not archive
>
>
> Sam Buchanan
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
ptrotter@optonline.net wrote:
> John,
>
> I expect Trio will come out wiht a single unit dual axis system in
> the not too distant future.
I think that is a safe statement to make. :-)
As with all things pertaining to avionics, it is best to defer major
purchases until the absolute latest time possible....new toys appearing
all the time.
Sam Buchanan
Message 11
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linn Walters wrote:
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
> snip
>
>>
>> TruTrak is also a good vendor, and the AlTrak worked fine in my plane.
>> My transition to Trio was a combination of my circumstances and timing.
>
> Would you be so kind as to elaborate?
Well....I thought the first part of my post explained my circumstances.
>
>> Download the user manuals, do your homework, make the final decision,
>> and enjoy whichever systems works best for you. :-)
>
> All autopilots do the same thing. HOW they do it makes the difference
> between a 'good' and 'bad' autopilot. So, without trying each and
> everyone of them ..... what criteria can I glean from the user
> manuals???? I'll be looking for a 3-axis ..... and so far as I can
> figure it out ..... the bottom line is who likes what .... but they
> seldom say WHY ..... which makes me think it's all subjective. there
> must be something out there to differentiate between manufacturers.
> Linn ..... totally confused about the pricey stuff!!
It is my opinion you cannot make an informed choice about autopilots (or
any other complex component of your panel) without nailing down the
mission profile of your plane. To make it even more complex, these days
many of the expensive bits and pieces in the panel need to integrate
and/or talk to each other. So not only do you need to decide which
equipment will satisfy the needs of our flying, it behooves us to figure
out how to end up with a panel where all the parts can work together to
create a greater whole rather than being a collection of unsocial parts.
:-)
And I, or anyone else, can't make these decisions for somebody else
because I probably have different expectations than other builders.
We are blessed with having digital equipment from several vendors that
works like a charm. It is unlikely you will end up with a "bad"
autopilot if you do a modest amount of research. But which will work
*best* for your plane? Ya gotta do your homework, and that means
downloading manuals and spec sheets and seeing which systems best meet
your budgetary and mission profile needs.
A VFR pilot will be happy with a far simpler autopilot than the pilot
who is going to be stuffing his plane into nasty weather and wants to be
able to shoot every approach on autopilot the IFR system can possibly
throw at him.
The builder facing real budgetary constraints will have very different
needs than the builder with a bottomless pocket.
So....you gotta know what you want to do with the plane.....or do as
some builders do, throw the most complicated, expensive toys they can
find into the project. But if that builder is a VFR pilot, more than
likely they are going to be quite unhappy with the complexity of their
panel. Or even worse....the panel will result in an unsafe combination
of aircraft and pilot (reference the tragic loss of an RV-10 earlier
this year).
Linn, don't know if I've cleared or muddied the water, but now you know
why I said what I did. :-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
It wouldn't surprise me to see something at either Sun 'N Fun or Oshkosh.
Paul
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> ptrotter@optonline.net wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> I expect Trio will come out wiht a single unit dual axis system in
>> the not too distant future.
>
> I think that is a safe statement to make. :-)
>
> As with all things pertaining to avionics, it is best to defer major
> purchases until the absolute latest time possible....new toys
> appearing all the time.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <n212pj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
> Sam, why did you go the Trio route? I've looked at both TT and Trio to
> get
> a two axis solution. The Trio makes you cut two holes in your panel,
> which
> is somewhat a bummer. Is there some compelling reason for one over the
> other? You hear more about TT than Trio, of course.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:49 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
>
> Bert,
>
> I used to fly the AlTrak but switched a couple of years ago to the Trio
> EZ-Hold. You probably won't be able to beat TruTrak's price on the AlTrak.
> The AlTrak works fine and is a stone-simple unit. If you want a device
> with
> more features you might look at the Trio line, but they will be more
> $$$$$'s.
>
> I doubt the AlTrak has ever been $1200.
>
> Sam
>
> ===============
>
> bert murillo wrote:
>>
>> Sam:
>>
>> I also read the article, and agreed with you..
>>
>> I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's suggestion, at the
>> address given.. ;Hope every one will do so..
>>
>> On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
>> unit on your plane (planes?)
>>
>> Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally, are you aware of
>> place to buy it, at better price than todays ...kind of steep for
>> me...2 years ago was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I wasit
>> will cost me another $100.....
>>
>> thanks,,
>>
>> Bert
>> rlv6a
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Death of the RV-12] |
Ron, you are correct. My fault.
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 4:04 PM
Subject: Please change the subject line (Was Re: RV-List: Death of the
RV-12]
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <n212pj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
> Sam, why did you go the Trio route? I've looked at both TT and Trio to
> get
> a two axis solution. The Trio makes you cut two holes in your panel,
> which
> is somewhat a bummer. Is there some compelling reason for one over the
> other? You hear more about TT than Trio, of course.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:49 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Death of the RV-12]
>
>
> Bert,
>
> I used to fly the AlTrak but switched a couple of years ago to the Trio
> EZ-Hold. You probably won't be able to beat TruTrak's price on the AlTrak.
> The AlTrak works fine and is a stone-simple unit. If you want a device
> with
> more features you might look at the Trio line, but they will be more
> $$$$$'s.
>
> I doubt the AlTrak has ever been $1200.
>
> Sam
>
> ===============
>
> bert murillo wrote:
>>
>> Sam:
>>
>> I also read the article, and agreed with you..
>>
>> I intend to write to the FAA on this, using Van's suggestion, at the
>> address given.. ;Hope every one will do so..
>>
>> On anotehr topic, I believe you have the Altrac..
>> unit on your plane (planes?)
>>
>> Are yu happy with the unit? suggestions? and finally, are you aware of
>> place to buy it, at better price than todays ...kind of steep for
>> me...2 years ago was $1,200, now over 1,600 so every minute I wasit
>> will cost me another $100.....
>>
>> thanks,,
>>
>> Bert
>> rlv6a
>
>
>
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John,
Are you aware that the White House budget proposal cuts DOE clean-up funds, including
Hanford.
I have seen some good work cleaning up the DOE mess during the last 8 years,
but all the failures that can happen from cost-plus or fixed fee contracts occur.
The contractors are for-profit companies, with executive bonuses at stake,
oversight can be gotcha excessive or non-existent, and all the Dilbert office
dynamics. I embarrassed some shiny shoe townie engineers, and had to move on.
However, the vast majority of the people working in the DOE system are trying
to do the right thing and do a good job. And each election can drasticly
change the mission.
I worked at Yucca Mtn in 2003, and predict it will never open. Documents that
should take 40 pages took one 2" ring binder an 2- 1" adendenums. Personally,
it makes more sense to me to see fuel reprocessing, and 'burn' it in a reactor,
than bury it.
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
We live downstream of Hanford. I think everyone praising Nuclear needs
to sign on first to placing their "Perfect" energy source waste in their
Front Yard or Back Yard and leave the Western US alone. Even Nevada
residents are smart enough that no amount of money makes the waste worth
it. Case Closed.
Do Not archive
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
N497GS reserved
Carlsbad, NM
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