Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Charles Heathco)
2. 07:00 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (ptrotter@optonline.net)
3. 07:24 AM - Loose Taildragger Spring (Frazier, Vincent A)
4. 08:02 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Konrad L. Werner)
5. 08:02 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Konrad L. Werner)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (mike humphrey)
7. 08:32 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (linn Walters)
8. 08:40 AM - tail wheel (Wheeler North)
9. 08:48 AM - Fly-in date change (Bill Boyd)
10. 09:54 AM - Re: tail wheel (HCRV6@comcast.net)
11. 10:02 AM - Re: Loose Taildragger Spring (HCRV6@comcast.net)
12. 12:41 PM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Brian Kraut)
13. 01:25 PM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Rob Prior)
14. 03:48 PM - Re: Loose Taildragger Spring (JVanLaak@aol.com)
15. 05:07 PM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Brian Kraut)
16. 05:20 PM - Re: Loose Taildragger Spring (HCRV6@comcast.net)
17. 08:12 PM - LOG BOOKS (RICHARD MILLER)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it? I
want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only
live once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
It sounds like fun. Do you know what they charge for their orientation flight?
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
> Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone
> considered it? I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change.
> Whadda ya think/ We only live once, and Im closing fast on 70/
> Charlie Heathco, do not archive
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Loose Taildragger Spring |
SNIP Subject: RV-List: Loose Taildragger Spring
To any and all RV tail dragger builders out there,
A friend with an RV-6 tail dragger (he is not the builder) has noticed
that his
tail spring seems to be slightly loose in the spring socket. When he
asked me
about it I told him that I have never heard of this occurring before but
that
I would query the list to see if anyone has experienced any problems in
that
area. My only guess is that the bolt may be loose enough to permit the
bolt
hole, bolt or both to wear. Anyone have any experience with this
condition?
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, flying - 450 hours SNIP
>From my website, here is one way to correct the problem. If you haven't
drilled your bolt hole yet, consider skipping the bolt and use the
tapered pin in the first place.
Vince
http://www.vincesrocket.com/landing%20gear%20and%20related%20stuff.htm
I want to pass on a little tidbit here about the bolt that holds the
tailwheel spring to the tailwheel weldment. I drilled mine per Mark's
instructions and found that the bolt went in too easily--this should be
an interference fit (once again, my savior the "big-ass" hammer should
be used to put the bolt in). I wrapped a piece of scrap aluminum around
the tailwheel spring and could twist it with a pair of vise-grips. Not
good! If there's any play here, the bolt can eventually fail or the hole
will become elongated. I have heard of failures in these bolts on RV's .
Rather than taking my chances with a larger bolt and it too not being
correct, I decided to fix it with a taper pin which worked out very
well. Here's the recipe:
AN386-2-9A taper pin (aircraft spruce)
AN975-3 taper pin washer (aircraft spruce)
B&S #2 taper pin reamer
(http://www.mscdirect.com/MSCCatLookup2.process?MSCProdID=02054021)
(1/2
the price of AC$)
12" long tap handle
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45206
)
The taper pin has the advantage that if the pin ever loosens up, you can
just tighten up the nut and things should be snug again. The taper pin
is an odd-sized Browne & Sharpe #2 taper, so don't confuse it with other
-2 tapers.
I highly advise that the final hole size should be reamed with a
hand-reamer .001-.002 under-size even if you don't use a taper-pin.
There are too many variables with drilling to final size with a hand
drill. Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
Charlie,
Go out and ride that Crazy Horse, and you may even do it twice while you
are down there anyway!!!
Remember, perfect estate planning is when the check you wrote to the
funeral home in anticipation of your death bounces after they put you
6ft under ;-) Have you ever seen a Hearse pulling you U-Haul ???
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit
...what a ride!"
These are important things to remember ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it?
I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only
live once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
If you have to ask..., then you probably can't afford it...
----- Original Message -----
From: ptrotter@optonline.net
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
It sounds like fun. Do you know what they charge for their
orientation flight?
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:52 am
Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
To: rv-list
> Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone
> considered it? I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change.
> Whadda ya think/ We only live once, and Im closing fast on 70/
> Charlie Heathco, do not archive
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
Run Charlie Run
I want to go to Fly Mig in Moscow MIG 29/SU-27 www.flymig.com Gotta win
the Lotto First. You can't take the cash to the grave-kids need to work
for their own or they won't appreciate it.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Heathco
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it?
I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only
live once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
Charles Heathco wrote:
> Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51?
Well, I have to say ...... I haven't.
> anyone considered it?
Oh yeah!
> I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change.
That's why I haven't. I'm only 45 minutes away ...... but the
cost/benefit for me isn't there.
> Whadda ya think/ We only live once
I've been an advocate for the 'if you want to, then do it' syndrome. We
seem to live life backwards ..... when we're young and slaving away at a
job, we think of all the pleasureable things we'll do in retirement
...... and when we're there, we have health, money, and 'other
obligations' that get in the way ..... and most of us 'old folks' don't
get to experience those dreams. I'm incredibly lucky ..... I have some
money and my health, and those 'other obligations' are getting in the
way of my -10 project, but I still find time to take a cruise or spend
some time with my wife in various casinos. I have complete control over
how I want to spend my time, and my money ...... and (in my case) money
does buy happiness. If you want to fly Crazy Horse, and you have the
chance, my vote is to go for it. The opportunity may never come around
again.
> , and Im closing fast on 70
Well, I'm sneaking up on it ...... and trying to cram too much into too
short a time. Best of luck in your decision, Charlie ..... let us know
how it turns out. either way, give a 'wahoo!' for me!!!
Linn
> / Charlie Heathco, do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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Wow,
There are several places of looseness possible so where the relative motion
is must be ascertained and can only be done with weight off the entire
assembly.
1. the steel mount attachment to the aluminum fuselage
2. the rod to the forward socket
3. the rod to the aft socket
4. the upper pivot mount to the lower tailwheel assembly (some free play is
desired)
5. and parts therein where things are cracked
What is the relative motion being noticed? Fore aft, rotating, side to side?
The fwd socket is a snug fit meaning the rod can be just pushed in by hand
and the bolt should be torqued to specs. A loose bolt should only cause the
assembly to be able to rotate a small bit, assuming that bolt hole was
drilled to specs. If there is play here the whole thing needs to come apart
as I would suspect cracking or an elongated socket hole.
The aft socket is a tapered fit and the bolts should be torqued to specs.
All steel mount attachment hardware should be torqued to specs.
Don't fly or taxi the airplane until you are sure it is correct.
And, so far I've not seen or heard of this happening even on plopped planes
with bent tail springs.
To any and all RV tail dragger builders out there,
A friend with an RV-6 tail dragger (he is not the builder) has noticed that
his
tail spring seems to be slightly loose in the spring socket. When he asked
me
about it I told him that I have never heard of this occurring before but
that
I would query the list to see if anyone has experienced any problems in that
area. My only guess is that the bolt may be loose enough to permit the bolt
hole, bolt or both to wear. Anyone have any experience with this condition?
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, flying - 450 hours
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fly-in date change |
Okay, everyone, I promise not to keep jerking things around, but you often
don't know what you're dealing with until you float a trial date out there
and collect feedback. Virtually no one was happy with June 14 or 21;
conflicts abounded. Looking back, we've almost always held this event on
the last full weekend in June, so that's what we'll do, this time and
henceforth, as far as possible. Less likelihood the river would be too
chilly, too.
Stormy's Fly-In BBQ River Float @ 12VA
New date: June 28th
New rain date: July 5th.
Hope everyone can make it. Glad to make the change, but won't be changing
this again without a really compelling reason.
Event details to follow later in the year.
-Bill Boyd
Message 10
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Thanks Wheeler, I'm going to have to go take a look at his tail spring myself
but you have described the conditions that could result in looseness pretty well,
ranging from scary to aw s---t!
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, flying - 450 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
>
> Wow,
>
> There are several places of looseness possible so where the relative motion
> is must be ascertained and can only be done with weight off the entire
> assembly.
>
> 1. the steel mount attachment to the aluminum fuselage
> 2. the rod to the forward socket
> 3. the rod to the aft socket
> 4. the upper pivot mount to the lower tailwheel assembly (some free play is
> desired)
> 5. and parts therein where things are cracked
>
> What is the relative motion being noticed? Fore aft, rotating, side to side?
>
> The fwd socket is a snug fit meaning the rod can be just pushed in by hand
> and the bolt should be torqued to specs. A loose bolt should only cause the
> assembly to be able to rotate a small bit, assuming that bolt hole was
> drilled to specs. If there is play here the whole thing needs to come apart
> as I would suspect cracking or an elongated socket hole.
>
> The aft socket is a tapered fit and the bolts should be torqued to specs.
>
> All steel mount attachment hardware should be torqued to specs.
>
> Don't fly or taxi the airplane until you are sure it is correct.
>
> And, so far I've not seen or heard of this happening even on plopped planes
> with bent tail springs.
>
>
>
> To any and all RV tail dragger builders out there,
>
> A friend with an RV-6 tail dragger (he is not the builder) has noticed that
> his
> tail spring seems to be slightly loose in the spring socket. When he asked
> me
> about it I told him that I have never heard of this occurring before but
> that
> I would query the list to see if anyone has experienced any problems in that
> area. My only guess is that the bolt may be loose enough to permit the bolt
> hole, bolt or both to wear. Anyone have any experience with this condition?
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, flying - 450 hours
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Taildragger Spring |
Message 12
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| Subject: | Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
I have not flown that one, but I did get a ride in the back seat of a P-51
without dual controls. I got to stand up in the back and reach over the
pilot to get a little stick time. If I was 70 and I had the money I would
do it.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charles Heathco
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:47 AM
To: rv-list
Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it? I
want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only live
once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
On 9:43 2008-03-20 "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com> wrote:
> I have not flown that one, but I did get a ride in the back seat of a
> P-51 without dual controls. I got to stand up in the back and reach
> over the pilot to get a little stick time. If I was 70 and I had the
> money I would do it.
I wouldn't pay to fly in a P-51 that didn't have dual controls. Even if it
was only 5-10 minutes out of a half-hour ride, the whole point in going up
is to see what it's like to fly.
-Rob
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Taildragger Spring |
I had an experience with my first RV-6 that could shed some light on this.
Since I bought both of my planes already flying I missed out on a few
details, but I get smarter each time.
My first -6 was beautifully built by a doctor out in California. If flew
beautifully and was straight as an arrow. I did not have any problems with
landing gear or the tailwheel until one landing when the plane suddenly veered
hard to the right. With full left rudder and brake I was not able to stay on
the very narrow runway but I did slow down enough that I did not hit anything
before I stopped.
The problem turned out to be that the tailwheel spring had an undersized
bolt in the forward support. Apparently the support was drilled with a 3/16"
hole in it so the builder put an AN-3 bolt in it. But the hole in the spring
was 1/4" and the spring had play in it that probably would have been
noticeable had I put the fuselage up on a stand with the spring unloaded. But
that is
not a normal thing to do and I never did. On that fateful landing the small
bolt sheared and the spring lay down on its side. I was very fortunate that
I was able to keep it from groundlooping or hitting something hard.
BTW, in the process of making "positive" left rudder and brake inputs I also
failed the left rudder pedal to the firewall. This was an early hanging
pedal without the service bulletin. In fact the bulletin came out after I had
repaired this damage by welding gussets on all four pedal vertical pieces. If
anyone has the old pedals without the bracing called out in the service
bulletin I strongly encourage you to pull them out and fix them.
Good luck.
Jim
RV-6 N79RL bought flying
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Flying the P-51, crazy Horse |
I didn't have to pay for the ride, but it would have been worth it if I did.
It would not have been worth the thousands of dollars that it costs to fly
Crazy Horse, but it would have been worth a few hundred anyway.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Prior
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse
On 9:43 2008-03-20 "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com> wrote:
> I have not flown that one, but I did get a ride in the back seat of a
> P-51 without dual controls. I got to stand up in the back and reach
> over the pilot to get a little stick time. If I was 70 and I had the
> money I would do it.
I wouldn't pay to fly in a P-51 that didn't have dual controls. Even if it
was only 5-10 minutes out of a half-hour ride, the whole point in going up
is to see what it's like to fly.
-Rob
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Loose Taildragger Spring |
Message 17
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GUYS AND GALS:
I WAS ASKED YESTERDAY TO TO DO A CONDITIONAL INSPECTION ON A EXEC 90 HELICOPTER.
AFTER A REVIEW OF THE LOG BOOKS I WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THE 100 HR INSPECTION
WAS DONE. AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE
MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. IN ADDITION
TO THIS ALL, MAINTENANCE ENTRIES FAILED TO HAVE A DATE OR SIGNATURE. THIS BECAME
A PROBLEM SINCE THE CURRENT OWNER IS THE THIRD OWNER AND THE BUILDER IS PRESUMED
DEAD. I AM AWAITING A DECISION FROM THE LOCAL FSDO RE-GUARDING THE LOGS
AND WILL POST THE STORY AS IT PLAYS OUT. YOU MIGHT NOT BE AN A/P OR IA BUT YOU
ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOGS
RICK A+P/IA
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