---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/21/08: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - The great replys to flying Crazy Horse (Charles Heathco) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Glen Matejcek) 3. 05:23 AM - Re: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse (dougpflyrv@aol.com) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Gordon or Marge) 5. 05:28 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS (JFLEISC@aol.com) 6. 06:36 AM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (Nuisance) 7. 07:43 AM - Re: Loose Taildragger Spring (tomvelvick) 8. 08:40 AM - Re: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse (scott bilinski) 9. 10:47 AM - ePanel Builder (Bill VonDane) 10. 10:47 AM - Re: Liquid cooling (Tedd McHenry) 11. 10:51 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS (Kelly McMullen) 12. 11:05 AM - Re: Nuclear Energy (Tedd McHenry) 13. 11:20 AM - Re: Garmin 296 (Leland Collins) 14. 12:04 PM - Re: Liquid cooling (Tedd McHenry) 15. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 296 (Bill Boyd) 16. 12:50 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (scott bilinski) 17. 01:40 PM - Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse (FASTPILOTRV8@aol.com) 18. 02:44 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (JFLEISC@aol.com) 19. 03:16 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (Bruce Gray) 20. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: Honda Piston Engine (never happen) (Tedd McHenry) 21. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Honda Piston Engine (never happen) (Tracy Crook) 22. 07:44 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (RICHARD MILLER) 23. 08:10 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (Bruce Gray) 24. 08:43 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (linn Walters) 25. 10:32 PM - Re: LOG BOOKS (Bruce Gray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:27 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse Thanks all for the thumbs up. Im going to do it, same reasoning i used when I boute Tweety Bird, wheres the hard earned cash going when Im done here. Thanks again, i will post when Ive done it, Charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:06 AM PST US From: Glen Matejcek Subject: RV-List: Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse Well, I've never flown any fighter, nor have I slept in a holiday inn lately, but my friend that does fly mustangs (and a wildcat and a sea fury) reports that an RV-8 is more fun. FWIW- Glen Matejcek ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse From: dougpflyrv@aol.com GOOD DECISION CHARLIE. U WILL ENJOY. IT IS A BLAST! DOUG PRESTON 40372 -----Original Message----- From: Charles Heathco Sent: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 6:52 am Subject: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse Thanks all for the thumbs up. Im going to do it, same reasoning i used when I boute Tweety Bird, wheres the hard earned cash going when Im done here. Thanks again, i will post when Ive done it, Charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:31 AM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:15 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse The latest Fly Past magazine says that Crazy Horse was repainted in Goderich, Ontario recently and is now called "Mad Max". If any of you get to see it, let us know. Gordon Comfort ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:52 AM PST US From: JFLEISC@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rickpegser@yahoo.com writes: AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the first place? Jim do not archive **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:02 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse From: "Nuisance" [quote="Charles Heathco"]Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it? I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only live once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive > [b] Charlie, I did this several years ago, a 50th b-day present from my wonderful wife. It was a great experience. True, it is high dollar, but Stallion 51 is a class act all the way. Crazy Horse is a full dual control 51 with flaps and everything in the back. I still have the video from the flight and play it once in a while. He let me do the take off and landing (I have a lot of tailwheel time) and also loops, rolls, stalls, hammerhead, low level bombing run (legal, but it seems low at 300 kias). I will never forget it! John -------- Life is too short to run lean of peak. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171462#171462 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:22 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Loose Taildragger Spring From: "tomvelvick" Second Vinces comment about using a taper pin. Have known several tail draggers with loose springs including mine. Taper Pins help solve that. Regards, Tom Velvick N53KT RV4 RV6a engine work. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171478#171478 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:59 AM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse We will expect a full report! Scott RV-8a ----- Original Message ---- From: "dougpflyrv@aol.com" Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:19:35 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse GOOD DECISION CHARLIE. U WILL ENJOY. IT IS A BLAST! DOUG PRESTON 40372 -----Original Message----- From: Charles Heathco Sent: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 6:52 am Subject: RV-List: The great replys to flying Crazy Horse Thanks all for the thumbs up. Im going to do it, same reasoning i used when I boute Tweety Bird, wheres the hard earned cash going when Im done here. Thanks again, i will post when Ive done it, Charlie heathco Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:44 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: ePanel Builder I have an immediate opening for someone who is looking for a reasonably quick turn around an getting a panel built... I am also looking to have a panel built that I can take with me to the Rocky Mountain Regional Air-Show (end of June) and to Oshkosh to put on display... If your in the market, drop me a line... Thanks! -Bil VonDane ePanel Builder www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:44 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Liquid cooling > The only advantage liquid cooling has is the capacity to provide a heat > reservoir, to absorb it when too much is being generated, and to retain it > when not enough is being generated.1 I'm quite surprised nobody challenged this yet! Liquid cooling provides many more benefits than just transient heat absorption. Perhaps the biggest is reduced hot spots in the combustion chamber. That allows either a higher compression ratio or a more efficient combustion chamber shape, or some combination of both. Combustion chamber shapes that have high detonation resistance (such as wedge) typically produce poorer flame fronts, less complete combustion, and greater head loss than othe shapes, but have the advantage of high detonation resistance. By reducing hot spots, liquid cooling allows a better trade off of these factors to produce more efficient combustion. Another huge advantage of liquid cooling is that, by limiting thermal expansion, it allows tighter tolerances. Compare the piston-to-cylinder clearance on a Lycoming to a typical, modern auto engine. These tighter clearances greatly reduce wear, and can be exploited to also reduce internal friction (by, for example, reducing piston ring tension). Limiting thermal expansion also allows greater freedom in selecting materials. There are numerous other advantages. For example, liquid cooling allows smaller valve stems, resulting in lower intake and exhaust restriction. The resulting lower valve mass allows the rest of the valvetrain to be lightened, resulting in further savings in engine weight and internal friction. The coolant can also be used for various ancillary functions, such as heating the cockpit (without risk of CO poisening), and provides a handy mechanism for pre-heating the engine in cold climates. Finally, liquid cooling has the potential to reduce cooling drag, as demonstrated in airplanes like the P-51 and the Mosquito. But that's difficult to achieve if the airframe wasn't designed for liquid cooling from the start. So the advantages of liquid cooling are legion. Of course, air cooling has certain advantages, too, but those are already well known to most people on this listserver. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:08 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs. Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship? While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs. JFLEISC@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rickpegser@yahoo.com writes: > > AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN > LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. > > I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were > replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the > first place? > > Jim > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home > . > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:08 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Nuclear Energy > After Chernobyl, the US party line was that 'nothing like that could > ever happen here'. As an engineer in the nuclear industry at the time, I have a good idea what the "party line" was. The "party line" was that what happened at Chernobyl could not happen to a PWR reactor of the kind used in the U.S. (and most of what was, at the time, Western Europe). And that is true. The Chernobyl accident occured, among other reasons, because of an effect called negative void coefficient, which does not exist in U.S.- and European-style PWRs. (The other reasons were mainly operational, and it's a very subjective judgement how likely they are to happen at western plant.) However, nobody in the industry ever claimed that accidents couldn't happen at a western nuclear plant. Such a claim would have been absurd given that Three Mile Island had already happened. The many reactor-centuries of experience with PWRs suggests, though, that the odds of such accidents are fairly low. But, as always, the failure of something to happen isn't proof that it can't. Incidentally, negative void coefficient does exist in Canadian CANDU reactors and certain reactors used in the UK. That is one reason that these reactors use somewhat different safety systems than PWRs. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:41 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296 From: "Leland Collins" I've had the same problem with my 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to lock onto satellites after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead battery problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge overnight. I just ordered a new battery from www.batteriesamerica.com for $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin supposedly now has the part number 010-10517-01 as a replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The replacement unit is the same for the 396 and 496. Leland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171523#171523 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:43 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Liquid cooling > less complete combustion, and greater head loss than othe shapes, Sorry, that's "heat loss," not "head loss." Tedd ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:04 PM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296 Leland- please let us know if this solves the problem. If it does, alot of us will be ordering replacement batteries! -Bill On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Leland Collins wrote: > > I've had the same problem with my 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to > lock onto satellites after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead > battery problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge > overnight. I just ordered a new battery from www.batteriesamerica.com for > $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin supposedly now has the part number > 010-10517-01 as a replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The > replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The replacement unit is the > same for the 396 and 496. > Leland > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171523#171523 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:49 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS Look up the N number in the NTSB data base. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp Scott RV-8a ----- Original Message ---- From: Kelly McMullen Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:46:48 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs. Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship? While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs. JFLEISC@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rickpegser@yahoo.com writes: > > AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN > LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. > > I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were > replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the > first place? > > Jim > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home > . > * > > > * Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:36 PM PST US From: FASTPILOTRV8@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse Charlie I have flown Crazy Horse. It was the best money I have ever spent. Lee Lauderback gave me the stick at about 500 ft off the ground and he never asked for it back. Lee coach me through loops, hammerheads, rolls etc. I had my pilots license for a total of 1 hour on the hobbs when I found myself in Orlando and had heard about Crazy Horse. I first said just the half hour ride, Lee replied no problem if you change your mind just tell me. Well, after about 10 minutes I told him to make it the full hour I am only going to be once. A short time later we headed into a MOA south of Kissimmee which was not hot so they let us in and made it hot just for us. We were dancing in out of the clouds and diving down on old MIGS sitting on an old runway, tank hunting about 100 ft make that 500 ft. off the ground at 250 kts and a bombing run on a missile sight and then pulled straight up to vertical climb. We also did a low pass over Kermit Weeks place Fantacy of Flight I had a chance to fly the EAA's B-17 and tried to talk my buddy into going, he said no I really can't go today. So I went without him. Well, you know that was the last weekend of the B-17 Tour for the season and As it turns out it was the last time you would be able get to sit in the left seat and fly here. That winter our friends from the FAA said no more letting unqualified pilots sit in the left seat and fly her. So now you can't ! ! ! My point is do it now before you can't! ! ! P. S. Lee Lauderback if the best instructor. Very calm talks you through manuavers. I did not feel his hand on the stick until we were landing. ( I have never landed a tail dragger before and had no clue what I was doing , remember I had just gotten my pilots licenses) Now I fly the closest thing to a P-51 that I could afford, RV8a (still not good at that tail dragger thing). Dane ----- Original Message ----- From: _Charles Heathco_ (mailto:cheathco@cox.net) Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: RV-List: Flying the P-51, crazy Horse Hey, anyone gone down to Fla and flown the P-51? anyone considered it? I want to realy bad, but its a chunk of change. Whadda ya think/ We only live once, and Im closing fast on 70/ Charlie Heathco, do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:47 PM PST US From: JFLEISC@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS In a message dated 3/21/2008 3:53:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv8a2001@yahoo.com writes: Look up the N number in the NTSB data base It only goes in if you report it. Even if you did it may not go in. I had a forced landing from an engine self destruction. When I went to report it to the FAA (back when I was naive) they weren't interested because it wasn't certified. Funny thing too; my logbook didn't mention the rebuild and my A&P didn't want to know either. He just checked that everything was working as it should at the time of the annual safety inspection and signed it off as 'safe for flight'. Go figure. do not archive **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:09 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: LOG BOOKS As he should. The annual condition inspection is just that. The condition of the aircraft at the time of inspection, ONLY. There's no AD search, damage history assessment, or anything else, just "Is it Safe now." Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JFLEISC@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS In a message dated 3/21/2008 3:53:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rv8a2001@yahoo.com writes: Look up the N number in the NTSB data base It only goes in if you report it. Even if you did it may not go in. I had a forced landing from an engine self destruction. When I went to report it to the FAA (back when I was naive) they weren't interested because it wasn't certified. Funny thing too; my logbook didn't mention the rebuild and my A&P didn't want to know either. He just checked that everything was working as it should at the time of the annual safety inspection and signed it off as 'safe for flight'. Go figure. do not archive _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:02 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Honda Piston Engine (never happen) A couple of misconceptions need to be addresses here. First, it's ridiculous to compare lifespan of car engines and airplane engines in miles, since they're installed in different vehicles. You might as well try to compare miles in an airplane to kWh in an APU. The only reasonable basis of comparison is hours, but to do that you need to match the duty cycles. Fortunately, information exists that will help us do that. Auto manufacturer accelerated-life tests typically involve cycling between peak torque and peak power for a period of around a thousand hours (the specifics vary from company to company and from intended-use to intended-use). It's done that way to save development time and dyno-time cost, and over the years manufactureres have learned to correlate these accelerated tests to real-world conditions very accurately. People who say auto engines aren't designed for the kind of duty cycle seen in airplanes simply don't know what they're talking about. The tests they are designed to pass are very much like the duty cycle in an airplane. We can be very confident that the engine will have a lifespan at least equal to the duration of the test if operated similarly, whether in an aiplane, a boat, or a stationary application. (And assuming the installation is properly designed.) Of course, once there is enough field experience (as there is getting to be with rotaries and Eggenfellners) it will become possible to have a more accurate prediction of life expectancy. The preliminary evidence seems to suggest that the "TBO" will be much higher than 1,000 hours. I've been told by boat builders running Mazda rotaries that they go well over 3,000 hours, and the duty cycle is similar to an airplane's. I'm not anti-Lycoming by any stretch of the imagination. I plan to put one in my RV (and I've already bought it). And I agree with Ed, Tracy, and other alternative-engine advocates that an auto conversion -- especially a "roll your own" -- is not the right way to go for most building. But, in their zeal to critique auto engines or defend Lycomings, some people have made statements that are incorrect or misleading. As for Reno: 3,347 CI verses 1,710 CI -- duh! Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:51 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Honda Piston Engine (never happen) > As for Reno: 3,347 CI verses 1,710 CI -- duh! > > Tedd McHenry > Surrey, BC, Canada > > I was wonder'n if sombody was gonna say that! Tracy Crook (RV-4 w/ 80 CI engine : ) OK, 160 CI for you SCCA rule guys out there. do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:59 PM PST US From: RICHARD MILLER Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS 14 CFR 91.417(a) requires that the maintenance record include the date of completion of the work and the signature and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service. 14 CFR 43.9(a)(4) requires that in addition to the name and certificate number that the kind of certificate held by the person be specified. this is for all log entries. so if you sign off an oil change with the entry of 25hr no date changed oil and filter no signiture have . fun when you get the ramp check. what i was trying to say the value of our airplane are direcrtly related to the quality of the log books. this is especially true when the next owner has to have an a+p do all of the sign offs. after a long dicusiion with the local fsdo this morning if any log entry is incomplete then it is as if it was never done. cost to repeat inspection 4000.00$ aircraft aquired from estate previous owner dead. i know every owner wants to claim no damage history, this is a bs statement. every aircraft out there has been damaged in some way so allow the log to reflect this and at prebuy inspection we know where to look to see if the repairs where done right. ps. when the repair estamate for the exec90 exceeded 30,000 without starting the engine the owner decided to bail on the project. remember that as an owner builder you can certify what ever you want. as an a+p/ia my living is on the line. it will be right no mater the cost. rick miller Kelly McMullen wrote: Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs. Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship? While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs. JFLEISC@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rickpegser@yahoo.com writes: > > AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN > LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. > > I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were > replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the > first place? > > Jim > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home > . > * > > > * --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:36 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: LOG BOOKS There are some that believe that all that needs logging is the Annual Condition Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an experimental between Annual Inspections, just how would my next door neighbor auto mechanic sign my log after he fixed my engine? Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS 14 CFR =A791.417(a) requires that the maintenance record include the date of completion of the work and the signature and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service. 14 CFR =A743.9(a)(4) requires that in addition to the name and certificate number that the kind of certificate held by the person be specified. this is for all log entries. so if you sign off an oil change with the entry of 25hr no date changed oil and filter no signiture have . fun when you get the ramp check. what i was trying to say the value of our airplane are direcrtly related to the quality of the log books. this is especially true when the next owner has to have an a+p do all of the sign offs. after a long dicusiion with the local fsdo this morning if any log entry is incomplete then it is as if it was never done. cost to repeat inspection 4000.00$ aircraft aquired from estate previous owner dead. i know every owner wants to claim no damage history, this is a bs statement. every aircraft out there has been damaged in some way so allow the log to reflect this and at prebuy inspection we know where to look to see if the repairs where done right. ps. when the repair estamate for the exec90 exceeded 30,000 without starting the engine the owner decided to bail on the project. remember that as an owner builder you can certify what ever you want. as an a+p/ia my living is on the line. it will be right no mater the cost. rick miller Kelly McMullen wrote: Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs. Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship? While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs. JFLEISC@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rickpegser@yahoo.com writes: > > AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN > LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. > > I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were > replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the > first place? > > Jim > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:03 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS Bruce Gray wrote: > There are some that believe that all that needs logging is the Annual > Condition Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an > experimental between Annual Inspections, just how would my next door > neighbor auto mechanic sign my log after he fixed my engine? That's easy!: 4/12/08 897 TT A/E Pulled #3 cylinder and replaced all rings, part # RS-4531. Reassembled with new cylinder base gasket, part # BG-4983, cylinder head gasket, part # HG-5982A, and pushrod tube gaskets PR-AX45 and BX-45. (signed) Joe Shmo (that's Bruce's neighbor) 654-32-5678 BTW, all the data is bogus, but you get the idea. Similar format when doing any maintenance such as replacing tires, battery, oil change etc. Of course, the entries go into the respective engine or airframe logs. Oh yeah, you should have a prop log too! Now you can be difficult and just keep notes on a lined pad instead of a standard logbook and be legal ...... but explain that method of record keeping to a prospective buyer. Linn > > > > Bruce > > www.Glasair.org > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:52 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: LOG BOOKS My eldest son, who is an A&P/IA got his ticket 17 years ago. When I saw it, it had his SSN as his license number. I made him turn it back in and get one with a random number instead. I doubt if my neighbor will give me his SSN. I sure won't give mine out. Call me stupid, but I don't see where the FAR's require any log entries for experimentals except the condition inspection. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS Bruce Gray wrote: There are some that believe that all that needs logging is the Annual Condition Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an experimental between Annual Inspections, just how would my next door neighbor auto mechanic sign my log after he fixed my engine? That's easy!: 4/12/08 897 TT A/E Pulled #3 cylinder and replaced all rings, part # RS-4531. Reassembled with new cylinder base gasket, part # BG-4983, cylinder head gasket, part # HG-5982A, and pushrod tube gaskets PR-AX45 and BX-45. (signed) Joe Shmo (that's Bruce's neighbor) 654-32-5678 BTW, all the data is bogus, but you get the idea. Similar format when doing any maintenance such as replacing tires, battery, oil change etc. Of course, the entries go into the respective engine or airframe logs. Oh yeah, you should have a prop log too! Now you can be difficult and just keep notes on a lined pad instead of a standard logbook and be legal ...... but explain that method of record keeping to a prospective buyer. Linn Bruce www.Glasair.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.