----------------------------------------------------------
                           RV-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Sun 03/23/08: 14
           ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:55 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS  (Kelly McMullen)
     2. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: Garmin 296  (Steve Glasgow)
     3. 07:21 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS  (JFLEISC@aol.com)
     4. 07:35 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS  (JFLEISC@aol.com)
     5. 07:41 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS  (JFLEISC@aol.com)
     6. 08:20 AM - Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl  (Bill Schlatterer)
     7. 08:23 AM - Re: LOG BOOKS  (Ken Arnold)
     8. 08:44 AM - Re: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl  (Jim CArey)
     9. 09:12 AM - Wingtips wanted...  (Bill VonDane)
    10. 09:43 AM - Re: [RV Builders] Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl  (Ron Olmstead)
    11. 10:16 AM - Re: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl  (Dale Ensing)
    12. 10:37 AM - Re: Wingtips wanted...  (Tracy Crook)
    13. 01:44 PM - Re: Wingtips wanted...  (Bill VonDane)
    14. 02:55 PM - Re: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl  (Brian Alley)
 
 
 
________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 03:55:59 AM PST US
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


Hmm,
That is an interesting position to take. Not even non-commercial Part 91 
type certificated aircraft have to comply with "mandatory" service 
bulletins. I could see conditioning approval on compliance with any 
applicable ADs.
How would you handle an aircraft with a Parker Hannifin Airborne vacuum 
pump, since the company says all are beyond service life and should be 
removed?

RICHARD MILLER wrote:
> hi guys
>   I posted the original post as an informative only type of thing, but 
> it looks like it kind of got out of hand. i have held my tickets for 
> over 20 yrs over and there are probably several thousand aircraft with 
> my ssn in their logs. When  an owner asks me to do a conditional/ 
> prebuy insp of an aircraft i am always asked what do you think the 
> value is. on an experimental aircraft the i will deduct up to fifty % 
> of the market value based on the condition of the logs. You have to 
> remember the simple fact that if you sign it, you fly it, you die in 
> it, there is no one to come after. i sign for it , you die in it, your 
> relatives and the faa will be beating down my door.
>  
> i will not sign off any conditional inspections unless all mandatory 
> service bulletins are complied with and the owner signs a letter of 
> understanding that absolves me of any responsibility.
>  
> rick miller
>  
>  


________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 03:57:10 AM PST US
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296

<Do you guys make all the software updates from Garmin?  Mine is almost 
56 years old and no problems yet.>

Should read almost 5 years old.  

Steve Glasgow-Cappy
N123SG  RV-8
Cappy's Toy

________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 07:21:40 AM PST US
From: JFLEISC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


In a message dated 3/22/2008 8:21:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
ceengland@bellsouth.net writes:

My  neighbor built homebuilt 'A' & installed a Lyc O-320. FAA (the actual  
civil servants, not DAR) came out to do the inspection & forced him to  
surrender the data plate before they would issue his EAB paperwork on  
the plane.

He later took the plane out of service, built homebuilt  'B' & installed 
the same engine that had been on homebuilt 'A'. FAA  from the same FSDO 
(again, actual Feds) came out to do the inspection.  Demanded to see his 
dataplate for the Lyc; told him it shouldn't be  removed. Answer: 'You 
should know where it is; you took it.'

The  only reality is *your* reality (or mine, or his, or hers, or...), at 
any  given moment.


Another point well taken and also my experience. Rule interpretation varies  
FSDO to FSDO.

Jim

do not archive


**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 07:35:37 AM PST US
From: JFLEISC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:16:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rickpegser@yahoo.com writes:

hi guys 
  I posted the original post as an informative only type of thing,  but it 
looks like it kind of got out of hand. i have held my tickets for over  20 yrs

over and there are probably several thousand aircraft with my ssn in  their 
logs. When  an owner asks me to do a conditional/ prebuy insp of an  aircraft i

am always asked what do you think the value is. on an  experimental aircraft 
the i will deduct up to fifty % of the market value  based on the condition of

the logs. You have to remember the simple fact that  if you sign it, you fly 
it, you die in it, there is no one to come after. i  sign for it , you die in 
it, your relatives and the faa will be beating down  my door.

i will not sign off any conditional inspections unless all mandatory  service 
bulletins are complied with and the owner signs a letter of  understanding 
that absolves me of any responsibility. 

rick miller


This is another issue my attorney friend finds laughable. He told me (once  
when I signed a liability release) that a person can't sign away their rights.

Now at the risk of starting another argument, I don't know if that is true or 
 not, but as he said it is all about what a lawyer can convince a jury of.  
Liability is a very subjective perception. I personally know someone, (very  
skilled craftsman also) who chopped up his last experimental aircraft after he

was done with it rather than risk any post-sale liability. I would hate to see

 that become a trend but the truth is that anyone can sue anyone else for  
anything and depending on the lawyer's skill can win.

Jim

do not archive


**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 07:41:56 AM PST US
From: JFLEISC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:23:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
mrobert569@hotmail.com writes:

Per a  ruling from HQ in 1998 ADs are applicable but because not everyone is  
guaranteed to get them we can't enforce the requirement.  Where you may  
still have problems, however, is with your insurance company.  Not all,  but some,

have gotten wise to the lack of a requirement for complying with ADs  and 
have included a little statement that the aircraft must be kept in a  condition

for safe operation whenever the aircraft is operated.  I would  suggest you 
talk with your insurance agent but as far as the FAA is concerned,  you are safe

if you don't want to comply with an AD.

Mike  Robertson
Das Fed


Again; who decides what is applicable and what is safe and is not. Most  
people I've met think flying small planes is dangerous and they think flying an

"experimental" aircraft is insane. Just by the arguments going back and forth 

inside this group, imagine this being tossed around in a court room. Insurance

 requirements such as that are no doubt standard caveat wording for them to 
find  a way not to pay IMHO.

Jim

do not archive


**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 08:20:54 AM PST US
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl

My engine came loaded with preservative which leaked out onto the interior
of the raw cowl while fitting the spinner.  Just wondering if there is
something special to remove the oil from the bare interior fiberglass
surface or should I just use acetone or lacquer thinner or similar.   I have
some less potent oil and grease remover for paint prep but really wanted it
all off.  My fallback for anything petrol related has been always been
lacquer thinner but I didn't know how it might react on the unfinished
surface,... I'm even starting to like the smell of it ;-)

Thanks, help appreciated

Bill S
7a Ark

Do not archive


________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 08:23:59 AM PST US
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS

I have received 33 e-mails on this subject.  There seems to be no bottom 
line.  Sure is giving my delete button a work out.

do not archive


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mike Robertson 
  To: rv-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:10 PM
  Subject: RE: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


  FAR 91, Subpart J for aircraft maintenance requires ALL maintenance be 
entered in the aircraft records.  You do NOT need to put your SSN as 
long as you follow all the other parts of what constitutes a log entry 
per FAR 43.9.  This requirement for log entries is NOT one of the ones 
not required for experimental aircraft. 
  And because there is NO requirement for the kinds of material used, 
you can NEVER get in trouble for the entry you make, only for the entry 
you DON'T make.
   
  Mike Robertson
  Das Fed


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
    From: Bruce@glasair.org
    To: rv-list@matronics.com
    Subject: RE: RV-List: LOG BOOKS
    Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:26:40 -0400


    My eldest son, who is an A&P/IA got his ticket 17 years ago. When I 
saw it, it had his SSN as his license number. I made him turn it back in 
and get one with a random number instead. I doubt if my neighbor will 
give me his SSN. I sure won't give mine out. 

    Call me stupid, but I don't see where the FAR's require any log 
entries for experimentals except the condition inspection. 

    Bruce
    www.Glasair.org


      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com 
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
      Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:38 AM
      To: rv-list@matronics.com
      Subject: Re: RV-List: LOG BOOKS


      Bruce Gray wrote:

        There are some that believe that all that needs logging is the 
Annual Condition Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an 
experimental between Annual Inspections, just how would my next door 
neighbor auto mechanic sign my log after he fixed my engine? 

      That's easy!:

      4/12/08      897 TT A/E  Pulled #3 cylinder and replaced all 
rings, part #  RS-4531.  Reassembled with new cylinder base gasket, part 
# BG-4983, cylinder head gasket, part # HG-5982A, and pushrod tube 
gaskets PR-AX45 and BX-45.  (signed) Joe Shmo (that's Bruce's neighbor) 
654-32-5678


      BTW, all the data is bogus, but you get the idea.  Similar format 
when doing any maintenance such as replacing tires, battery, oil change 
etc.  Of course, the entries go into the respective engine or airframe 
logs.   Oh yeah, you should have a prop log too!

      Now you can be difficult and just keep notes on a lined pad 
instead of a standard logbook and be legal ...... but explain that 
method of record keeping to a prospective buyer.

      Linn


        Bruce

        www.Glasair.org


href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
  In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. 


________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 08:44:00 AM PST US
From: "Jim CArey" <tiger10@centurytel.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl

I have used a product called Smart and Final de greaser. I get it at a chain
of discount grocery stores on the west coast. It looks and smells like
Windex but I don't think it is the same. I have used it full strength as a
non flammable parts wash and cut about 50/50 with water on painted surfaces
with no ill effect. I would have no problem using it on fiberglass. ACS or
Sporty's might have something similar if you don't find a Smart and Final in
your area. A janitorial supply might also be a good bet.
Jim C
RV8-A in progress

  _____  

From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl


My engine came loaded with preservative which leaked out onto the interior
of the raw cowl while fitting the spinner.  Just wondering if there is
something special to remove the oil from the bare interior fiberglass
surface or should I just use acetone or lacquer thinner or similar.   I have
some less potent oil and grease remover for paint prep but really wanted it
all off.  My fallback for anything petrol related has been always been
lacquer thinner but I didn't know how it might react on the unfinished
surface,... I'm even starting to like the smell of it ;-)

Thanks, help appreciated 

Bill S 
7a Ark 

Do not archive 


__________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 09:12:54 AM PST US
From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wingtips wanted...


Hey all...

I am looking for a set of wintips w/cutout and lexan covers...  If 
anyone has a set and has decided not to use then please let me know!

Thanks!
-Bill VonDane
719-510-0854
bill@vondane.com
(you may have to validate yourself to email me)

do not archive


________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 09:43:56 AM PST US
From: "Ron Olmstead" <rlo110@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: RE: [RV Builders] Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl

Try Denatured alcohol.  I find that it cuts through oils and residues pretty
well and leaves the surface very clean and very dry.


-Ron


Ron Olmstead

rlo110@cox.net

Hm: 480-961-1754

Cell: 480-236-6509


From: RV7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schlatterer
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:18 AM
Subject: [RV Builders] Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl


My engine came loaded with preservative which leaked out onto the interior
of the raw cowl while fitting the spinner.  Just wondering if there is
something special to remove the oil from the bare interior fiberglass
surface or should I just use acetone or lacquer thinner or similar.   I have
some less potent oil and grease remover for paint prep but really wanted it
all off.  My fallback for anything petrol related has been always been
lacquer thinner but I didn't know how it might react on the unfinished
surface,... I'm even starting to like the smell of it ;-)

Thanks, help appreciated 

Bill S 
7a Ark 

Do not archive 

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________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 10:16:26 AM PST US
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl

Cleaning Oil off the raw CowlBill,
I also had some preservative oil leak on to the inside of my cowl before 
I sealed it. I used one of the aerosol spray products used for oil based 
stain removal from clothing. Spray it on the oil area and let it dry. It 
will absorb the oil and even draw out the oil from the raw fiberglass. 
Buy it in the laundry products isle at the super market.
Dale Ensing
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Schlatterer 
  To: rv-list@matronics.com ; rv7-list@matronics.com ; 
RV7A@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:17 AM
  Subject: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl


  My engine came loaded with preservative which leaked out onto the 
interior of the raw cowl while fitting the spinner.  Just wondering if 
there is something special to remove the oil from the bare interior 
fiberglass surface or should I just use acetone or lacquer thinner or 
similar.   I have some less potent oil and grease remover for paint prep 
but really wanted it all off.  My fallback for anything petrol related 
has been always been lacquer thinner but I didn't know how it might 
react on the unfinished surface,... I'm even starting to like the smell 
of it ;-)

  Thanks, help appreciated 

  Bill S 
  7a Ark 

  Do not archive 


________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 10:37:17 AM PST US
From: "Tracy Crook" <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wingtips wanted...

 I have a set of standard tips but not sure about the lexan covers.  Decided
to use the -7 tips on my RV-8

I also have an untouched RV-8 engine cowl (IO - 360 style).  , I decided to
use a "James Holey Cowl" since it fit my 20B rotary engine installation
better.

Will sell for 1/2 price but will probably have to be a local sale since I
don't have time to crate this stuff up.

Tracy Crook
tracy@rotaryaviation.com


On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com> wrote:

>
> Hey all...
>
> I am looking for a set of wintips w/cutout and lexan covers...  If
> anyone has a set and has decided not to use then please let me know!
>
> Thanks!
> -Bill VonDane
> 719-510-0854
> bill@vondane.com
> (you may have to validate yourself to email me)
>
> do not archive
>
>

________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 01:44:47 PM PST US
From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wingtips wanted...

--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---

  A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
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  resend the email using Plain Text formatting.

  HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
  in their client's default configuration.  If you're using
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 02:55:24 PM PST US
From: Brian Alley <n320wt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cleaning Oil off the raw Cowl

Bill, Clean it with acetone and when you finish fitting the cowl, prime and paint
it inside to make cleaup easier. 

BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) 
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
www.carbonfibercomposites.net
304-562-6800 home
304-395-4932 cell

How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?

 

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