Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: RV7A OVERHEATING (glen matejcek)
2. 08:21 AM - Re: Do AD's really apply? (SCOTT SPENCER)
3. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Do AD's really apply? (whose side are you ON? Liberty?) (Steven Reynard)
4. 12:24 PM - Re: Do AD's really apply? ()
5. 03:16 PM - RV-10 Project For Sale (Eric Parlow)
6. 04:28 PM - Engine driven fuel pump (Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell)
7. 04:32 PM - Re: Do AD's really apply? (RALPH HOOVER)
8. 04:48 PM - Re: Engine driven fuel pump (Kyle Boatright)
9. 05:18 PM - Re: Engine driven fuel pump (Ron Lee)
10. 06:08 PM - Re: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's (Charlie England)
11. 08:07 PM - Re: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's (Greg Young)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV7A OVERHEATING |
HI Weasel!
>the oil cooler is the one that comes with the finishing kit and is m
> ounted on the firewall with a 3.5 in scat duct going to it (with no shar
> p bends in the duct). the cowl air exit is the standard size. ie. no ext
> ra openings.
>
> His problem is over heating oil.
> Will the Oil temp drop any more with "break in"?
That seems to be common.
>Should it have more ex
> it air leaving the cowl....some have suggested installing "luvers" on th
> e botom of the cowl to help with that...?
My thought is that if the CHT's are good, then you've most likely got
enough air going through the cowling. Not to mention, that engine flies in
that plane all the time without cooling issues, as do angle valve engines
that have a much higher heat load on the lubricating system. So, the
question becomes, 'what are you doing with the available airflow?'
The way I look at it, your friend needs to make his cooler, and only the
cooler, breathe easier. You don't mention any sort of diffuser to connect
the SCAT to the cooler. A reasonable diffuser, properly sealed to the
cooler, could make all the difference. If there is a diffuser in place,
I'd up the SCAT diameter. Last, I'd consider a NACA scoop and / or a
properly shaped outflow duct in the side of the lower cowl to service the
cooler directly. But again, there should already be more than enough mass
flow through the cowl to meet all your cooling needs. If I added a
dedicated NACA scoop for the cooler, I'd also reduce the size of the
cooling inlets at the front of the cowl.
I would absolutely not consider gills in the cowl. Although it would
potentially / probably solve the oil cooling issue, it would markedly
increase the airflow through the whole of the cowl, not just the cooler.
Every molecule passing through the cowl represents more cooling drag and
less efficiency, which is of course contrary to our basic goals.
FWIW-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.ne
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Do AD's really apply? |
Like I said in another post:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf
Read paragraph 8.
Straight from the feds in writing.
Scott
RV-4 C-140
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Do AD's really apply? (whose side are you ON? Liberty?) |
Hi all!
I realize it is a lot more fun to argue about this, and this probably
will not do any good, but the link gmcjetpilot was referring to is:
http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/issues/airworthy.asp
It is pretty clear and thorough. As a sample:
"What about FAR 91.403 requirement to comply with Part 39?
FAR 91.403(a)11 requires the owner or operator of an aircraft to be
responsible for compliance with FAR Part 39. As was explained earlier,
FAA's legal office has stated that FAR Part 39 is not applicable to
experimental amateur-built aircraft because they have no type design.
Since FAR 39 is not applicable to experimental amateur-built aircraft
- then the owner is always in compliance with the part 39 referred to
in FAR 91.403(a)."
It's funny, the EAA page starts with:
"The applicability of Airworthiness Directives (AD's) to experimental
amateur-built aircraft is an intensely contested subject. Regardless
of what position one takes on this subject, many will take a personal
affront to your position."
Oh, "EAA suggests that the owner of the aircraft make a logbook entry
indicating how any ADs that applies to components installed on his or
her aircraft have been addressed."
My personal opinion of all this is that a experimental aircraft is
airworthy because the owner says it is. A logbook entry is just a
good way of expressing this. If it falls out of the sky, it's a
pretty good indication that we were wrong. I think of it like this, a
TC'ed aircraft has to prove it is airworthy by every component being
tested to death and following a b*tt load of regulations.
Experimental aircraft prove airworthiness through experimentation
(i.e. we don't crash).
Steve
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Bob J. <rocketbob@gmail.com> wrote:
> George:
>
> Step 1: Read FAR 39 here:
>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=ed65d4b4a98534ea6be4c14af3cbcb47&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr39_main_02.tpl
>
> So now where is the applicability section? Hmmm. Maybe there isn't one!
>
> Step 2: go back and see your doctor, your Ritalin prescription must have run
> out.
>
> :)
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const. <- man I must hate homebuilts, and liberty
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Do AD's really apply? |
Thus far in my 68 years I have survived being shot at, stabbed, ship wrecked in
Alaska, an airplane crash & cancer. Been wrong lots of times before but am yet
to be "dead right". We all know what happens when we "assume" (negative #2)
and erroneous (negative #1). Two negatives equals a positive and I'm positive
Ya'll should check the plug just "cause". Have delt with insurance companies,
the FAA & lawyers...none of which I would recommend or wish upon you. KABONG
>From: Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>Date: 2008/03/30 Sun PM 07:03:43 CDT
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List:Do AD's really apply?
>> BUT if something, anything does happen...the insurance company, the FAA
>> and/or a lawyer type is going to have a field day with YOU.
>
>You're making an erroneus assumption KABONG!
>
>Dale
>do not archieve
Message 5
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| Subject: | RV-10 Project For Sale |
RV-10 project for sale.Asking $120k . To finish it needs: engine, prop, int
erior, paint, ~1000 hours labor.
Engine $39,200 (Vans)Prop $6,510 (Vans)Interior $3,182 (Flightline)Paint ~$
8,000 (?) Total ~$56,892 to finish A flying full IFR RV-10 for $176,892!A f
ew photos attached. ERic--(828) 777-7976Williamsport, PA
panel4 (Medium).jpg
Transfer 12-25-06 192 (Medium).jpg
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine driven fuel pump |
My fuel pressure vary on my O-360 with 55 hours.
They do not jump around, but over periods of time vary from 1 to 5 pis..
IThe electric boost pump always brings up the pressure.
Any suggestions.
Roger
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List:Do AD's really apply? |
Comply for your own safety if you are concerned, If you do there is
certainly no penalty. If you don't there may not be either it all depends.
We all decide what risks to take every day. Take those you find acceptable
and avoid those you don't. The risk of noncompliance could be 0, legal
action, a huge hassle, or your life. Keep your eyes open and make your own
choices. Remember we all have a vested interest in the safety record of our
sport as well as the responsibility to self and family.
Be Safe out there.
Ralph Hoover
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jhstarn@verizon.net
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List:Do AD's really apply?
Thus far in my 68 years I have survived being shot at, stabbed, ship wrecked
in Alaska, an airplane crash & cancer. Been wrong lots of times before but
am yet to be "dead right". We all know what happens when we "assume"
(negative #2) and erroneous (negative #1). Two negatives equals a positive
and I'm positive Ya'll should check the plug just "cause". Have delt with
insurance companies, the FAA & lawyers...none of which I would recommend or
wish upon you. KABONG
>From: Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>Date: 2008/03/30 Sun PM 07:03:43 CDT
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List:Do AD's really apply?
>> BUT if something, anything does happen...the insurance company, the FAA
>> and/or a lawyer type is going to have a field day with YOU.
>
>You're making an erroneus assumption KABONG!
>
>Dale
>do not archieve
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine driven fuel pump |
Can you correlate the pressure fluctuation to climbs, descents, etc?
Many (most?) of us see low readings when climbing and immediately after
reaching cruise altitude and high readings in descents and upon changing to
a lower altitude. The error corrects itself after a few minutes at a steady
altitude.
If you check the archives, you'll see lots of commentary on the subject.
The leading theory (IMO) is that there is a problem using automotive
pressure senders in aviation applications because they give inaccurate
pressure readings since they are not designed for fast or significant
changes in elevation. Essentially, the static port in automotive sensors is
undersized for our application, so the static pressure in the sensors
doesn't keep up with the altitude of the aircraft. Sort of like a plugged
static system in an airplane will give you incorrect altitude and airspeed
readings.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine driven fuel pump
> <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> My fuel pressure vary on my O-360 with 55 hours.
>
> They do not jump around, but over periods of time vary from 1 to 5 pis..
>
> IThe electric boost pump always brings up the pressure.
>
> Any suggestions.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine driven fuel pump |
Unless there is a problem, that is normal for my RV-6A O-360.
Been doing it for 1200 hours or so. Never quit on me yet. This
is common. Feel free to look for a problem but don't worry
about if it everything appears normal otherwise.
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lapsley R. and Sandra E. Caldwell" <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Engine driven fuel pump
> <lrsecaldwell@earthlink.net>
>
> My fuel pressure vary on my O-360 with 55 hours.
>
> They do not jump around, but over periods of time vary from 1 to 5 pis..
>
> IThe electric boost pump always brings up the pressure.
>
> Any suggestions.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's |
Thanks; good info. What did you have to do to your mount, & was your's a
trike or TD? (mine's a TD)
Charlie
Greg Young wrote:
>
> The bolt pattern for the sumps are the same on parallel 320's, 360's and
> angle valve 360's. As you surmised the problem is the intake tubes. The
> angle valve sump tubes use an O-ring and insert into the sump. The parallel
> sump tubes mate with an external sleeve. The geometry is also different. The
> exhaust flange on the parallel cylinders are ~1/4" higher than the angle
> valve cylinders requiring at minimum a spacer with extra exhaust gaskets and
> possibly longer studs to use the angle valve tubes. There may be other
> issues depending on which sump you use. I put a C model sump on my first RV.
> It's tubes mount further aft that the A model. I had to cut and re-weld 2 of
> the tubes along with using the spacers. The C sump also required an oddball
> exhaust and modification to my mount. I would not do it again and don't
> recommend it. It's possible a poor fit might have caused an induction leak
> and contributed to my accident.
>
> The good news is that you can now buy the proper tubes to use the A model
> angle valve sump on a parallel engine. They are not cheap but at least they
> are plug-and-play. A friend got his from Aerosport. Last year I bought a
> sump with stainless tubes from SuperFlight for about $2600. I don't know if
> they sell the tubes separately from the sump. I didn't see it on the
> SuperFlight site right now. I think they split their engine business off
> under another name. Try this link
> www.aeroinstock.com/products/Oil-Sump320%252F360/6160/0/product_cat/index.ht
> ml or call SuperFlight.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Charlie England
>> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:24 PM
>> To: RV list; rv7-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's
>>
>> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Anyone know whether the various sumps for Lyc 360 engines are
>> interchangeable between the parallel valve & angle valve engines?
>>
>> I've got a parallel valve engine & a chance to purchase a
>> sump off an angle valve engine (no p/n supplied for the sump).
>>
>> Seems unlikely that the original intake tubes would fit, but
>> will they?
>> If not, are the sumps 'standardized' on inlet tube position
>> so parallel valve tubes would be available to fit?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's |
Charlie,
Mine is a -6 taildragger. I've attached a picture that shows the mod that I
had to make on the engine mount. The IO-360-C sump has the intake tubes much
further aft than most of the others and there was virtually no clearance
without the mod. If you compare your sump to the picture the difference is
very apparent. The C sump is also magnesium. The IO-360-A1A sump is the most
common forward facing. That's what I got from AERO/Superflight. It gives you
the equivalent of the IO-360-M1B forward facing parallel engine and you can
use exhausts made for it. I got the 4 into 1 from Aerospace Welding. I
haven't fit it to the engine yet but it is beautifully built.
http://www.awi-ami.com/4%20into%201%20exhaust.htm
Regards,
Greg Young
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Charlie England
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:04 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's
>
> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Thanks; good info. What did you have to do to your mount, &
> was your's a trike or TD? (mine's a TD)
>
> Charlie
>
> Greg Young wrote:
> >
> > The bolt pattern for the sumps are the same on parallel
> 320's, 360's
> > and angle valve 360's. As you surmised the problem is the intake
> > tubes. The angle valve sump tubes use an O-ring and insert into the
> > sump. The parallel sump tubes mate with an external sleeve. The
> > geometry is also different. The exhaust flange on the parallel
> > cylinders are ~1/4" higher than the angle valve cylinders
> requiring at
> > minimum a spacer with extra exhaust gaskets and possibly
> longer studs
> > to use the angle valve tubes. There may be other issues
> depending on which sump you use. I put a C model sump on my first RV.
> > It's tubes mount further aft that the A model. I had to cut and
> > re-weld 2 of the tubes along with using the spacers. The C
> sump also
> > required an oddball exhaust and modification to my mount. I
> would not
> > do it again and don't recommend it. It's possible a poor fit might
> > have caused an induction leak and contributed to my accident.
> >
> > The good news is that you can now buy the proper tubes to use the A
> > model angle valve sump on a parallel engine. They are not
> cheap but at
> > least they are plug-and-play. A friend got his from Aerosport. Last
> > year I bought a sump with stainless tubes from SuperFlight
> for about
> > $2600. I don't know if they sell the tubes separately from
> the sump. I
> > didn't see it on the SuperFlight site right now. I think they split
> > their engine business off under another name. Try this link
> >
>
www.aeroinstock.com/products/Oil-Sump320%252F360/6160/0/product_cat/index.ht
> > ml or call SuperFlight.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg Young
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
> >> England
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:24 PM
> >> To: RV list; rv7-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RV-List: Q on sump fit on O- & IO-360's
> >>
> >> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> >>
> >> Anyone know whether the various sumps for Lyc 360 engines are
> >> interchangeable between the parallel valve & angle valve engines?
> >>
> >> I've got a parallel valve engine & a chance to purchase a
> sump off an
> >> angle valve engine (no p/n supplied for the sump).
> >>
> >> Seems unlikely that the original intake tubes would fit, but will
> >> they?
> >> If not, are the sumps 'standardized' on inlet tube position so
> >> parallel valve tubes would be available to fit?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
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