Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Florida Use Tax (Russell Daves)
2. 07:45 AM - Re: Florida Use Tax (mike humphrey)
3. 09:46 AM - Re: Florida Use Tax .... and sales tax (linn Walters)
4. 10:50 AM - Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Richard Dudley)
5. 11:19 AM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Bruce Gray)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Dana Overall)
7. 01:19 PM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (linn Walters)
8. 02:20 PM - Used RV buying best practices (Larry James)
9. 02:40 PM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Charlie England)
10. 02:51 PM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Scott)
11. 05:23 PM - Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale (Dana Overall)
Message 1
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For those going to Sun & Fun it does not appear that there is any
problem with the Florida use tax. FMI read:
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080328fl.pdf
Russ Daves
N710RV- Flying RV-10
RV-7 Wings and Tail finished
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Florida Use Tax |
Yeah, unless you need repair, an officer of a company with 'connection
to FL', bought your plane from an individual, believe that they 'don't
do ramp checks', etc. etc. In reality, SNF flyers probably will not be
affected, but only because the DOR does not want the bad publicity. The
response to AOPA's questions actually contradicted the statues on a
couple of points. In one instance the response states 'no use tax
imposed for non-residents with aircraft less than 6 months old', but the
statues actually state that 'a use tax will be imposed if you need
repair, training, commercial operation'. The responder actually doesn't
understand the statues himself since two different statues contradict
each other, and he only sites one statue as the I wonder if other
states have similar statues? If so, I pity FL residents that have to
temporarily relocate their a/c due to hurricanes, or have their a/c
repaired due to hurricane damage, or want to train in another state.
But what can you expect from a welfare based state, where there are more
people on welfare than working. Here in KY 10% of the
population(working) SUPPORT the other 90% of the
population(non-working). I bet that it is similar percentages in FL.
Tax you to the grave vs. solving the problem-get more people working and
stop the unnecessary free handouts.
I will now get off my soapbox and return you to your normal broadcast,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Daves
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:29 AM
Subject: RV-List: Florida Use Tax
For those going to Sun & Fun it does not appear that there is any
problem with the Florida use tax. FMI read:
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080328fl.pdf
Russ Daves
N710RV- Flying RV-10
RV-7 Wings and Tail finished
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Florida Use Tax .... and sales tax |
FL used to have a true 'use tax' with the attendant sticker in the
window of your airplane. Those airplanes tied down outside were easy
prey to the tax man when he walked down the line. No sticker??? You
got a letter strongly suggesting you get one.
The repair, training etc. is subject to FLs 6% sales tax just like
everything else. 'Services' used to be exempt, but that changed too.
For years the vendors at SNF didn't charge sales tax, but the feds found
out and now there's even a FL tax tent!!! Better to pay for your stuff
and have them ship it to you after the show, unless shipping will cost
more than the 6%. Oh yeah, some counties have an optional, additional
penny sales tax.
I wasn't even aware that there were statutes on the books for a 'use
tax' in FL, probably because it isn't enforced. Buy an airplane from
out of state, and they'll send you a letter for the tax after the
registration changes. The tax guys get the FAA database and send
letters to the new entries ...... probably sorted by date of
transaction. If you can show that you paid sales tax to the sellers
state, you won't have to pay twice.
Linn
do not archive.
mike humphrey wrote:
> Yeah, unless you need repair, an officer of a company with 'connection
> to FL', bought your plane from an individual, believe that they 'don't
> do ramp checks', etc. etc. In reality, SNF flyers probably will not
> be affected, but only because the DOR does not want the bad
> publicity. The response to AOPA's questions actually contradicted the
> statues on a couple of points. In one instance the response states
> 'no use tax imposed for non-residents with aircraft less than 6 months
> old', but the statues actually state that 'a use tax will be imposed
> if you need repair, training, commercial operation'. The responder
> actually doesn't understand the statues himself since two different
> statues contradict each other, and he only sites one statue as the I
> wonder if other states have similar statues? If so, I pity FL
> residents that have to temporarily relocate their a/c due to
> hurricanes, or have their a/c repaired due to hurricane damage, or
> want to train in another state. But what can you expect from a
> welfare based state, where there are more people on welfare than
> working. Here in KY 10% of the population(working) SUPPORT the other
> 90% of the population(non-working). I bet that it is similar
> percentages in FL. Tax you to the grave vs. solving the problem-get
> more people working and stop the unnecessary free handouts.
> I will now get off my soapbox and return you to your normal broadcast,
> Mike H
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Russell Daves <mailto:dav1111@erfwireless.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:29 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Florida Use Tax
>
> For those going to Sun & Fun it does not appear that there is any
> problem with the Florida use tax. FMI read:
>
> http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/080328fl.pdf
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV- Flying RV-10
> RV-7 Wings and Tail finished
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
Listers,
These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur
Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever
means: electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check or cash,
and that 5+ figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything
over $10K requires the bank or other financial institution to report it
to some federal government agency since there is concern about the
cleanliness of the money.
My questions are:
1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and
reporting the sale amount?
A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts
cost of building?
B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? OR
C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the
sale price called "ordinary income".
Thanks for any experience or insight.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
RV-6A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
I'm not a lawyer but I believe that the 10k rule applies to cash
transactions only. Any other method, check, wire transfer, etc, leaves a
paper trail. Which is all the feds are concerned about.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Dudley
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
Listers,
These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur
Built
Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever
means:
electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check or cash, and that
5+
figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything over $10K
requires the bank or other financial institution to report it to some
federal government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness
of
the money.
My questions are:
1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and
reporting the sale amount?
A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts
cost of
building?
B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? OR
C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the
sale
price called "ordinary income".
Thanks for any experience or insight.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
RV-6A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
Richard, there is no reporting requirement by banks to the IRS unless it is
a cash transaction of 10K or over. Multiple cash transactions in repetiti
on that indicate an attempt to circumvent the 10K cash transaction reportin
g requirements, will give rise to the bank notifying the IRS. Unless you a
re in the business of selling airplanes, there are no income tax implicatio
ns attached to the sale of personal property. No need to worry about cost,
labor, whatever.
Remember, you got what you paid for. I only license to practice in KY.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider "Black Magic"
Flying
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
From: rhdudley1@bellsouth.net
Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
Listers,
These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur Built
Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by whatever means:
electronic transfer, cashier=92s check, certified check or cash, and that 5
+
figure amount is put into your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requi
res
the bank or other financial institution to report it to some federal govern
ment
agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of the money.
My questions are:
1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and
reporting the sale amount?
A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and
parts cost of building?
B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence?
OR
C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts
and the sale price called "ordinary income".
Thanks for any experience or insight.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
RV-6A
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
Richard Dudley wrote:
> Listers,
>
> These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an OBAM/Amateur
> Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the aircraft by
> whatever means: electronic transfer, cashier's check, certified check
> or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into your "whatever"
> account, anything over $10K requires the bank or other financial
> institution to report it to some federal government agency since there
> is concern about the cleanliness of the money.
>
This is true only if it's CASH!
> My questions are:
>
> 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
>
None ..... well, see below.
> 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for and
> reporting the sale amount?
>
My info is old, so check the present validity. If it's cash, you must
provide Who you got it from (SS# if possible) and why the transaction
was in cash etc. I deal in much larger quantities than 10K, but only in
those methods EXCEPT CASH.
> A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and parts
> cost of building?
>
I guess if you're telling the IRS that you sold an airplane for profit
.... that's your fault. Would you include the sale of a car you fixed
up and sold??? I think not.
> B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence?
>
I doubt it.
> OR
>
> C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and the
> sale price called "ordinary income".
>
This would be the case if you report it. However, if the transaction
method is something other than cash ....... How do they know that you
even had an airplane ..... unless you've been deducting it etc.????
> Thanks for any experience or insight.
>
Well, maybe not experience in selling stuff ..... The only thing I ever
got rid of was my first wife, but I do have to file income tax.
This posting is for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken
as advise on how to maintain or operate an aircraft or any financial
transaction.
Linn ......
do not archive
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Richard Dudley
>
> RV-6A
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Used RV buying best practices |
I started down the path of buying a flying RV and decided to go another
route. After traveling to see a few aircraft and coming away very
disappointed, something I found helpful was to ask the owner/builder to take
photos of the "worst areas" of the aircraft and send them to me. This
helped a bit in my initial screening process.
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (under construction)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
RE: income tax implications:
Aren't you legally obligated to pay either capital gains or income tax
on the difference between cost & sale price if you sell for more than
you paid. There's even a place on the tax return for 'hobby income'.
Whether you choose to do the legal thing or the American thing is
another question. ;-)
Charlie
Dana Overall wrote:
> Richard, there is no reporting requirement by banks to the IRS unless
> it is a cash transaction of 10K or over. Multiple cash transactions
> in repetition that indicate an attempt to circumvent the 10K cash
> transaction reporting requirements, will give rise to the bank
> notifying the IRS. Unless you are in the business of selling
> airplanes, there are no income tax implications attached to the sale
> of personal property. No need to worry about cost, labor, whatever.
>
> Remember, you got what you paid for. I only license to practice in KY.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY i39
> RV-7 slider "Black Magic" Flying
> O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: rhdudley1@bellsouth.net
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:45:43 -0400
>
> Listers,
> These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an
> OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the
> aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashiers check,
> certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into
> your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or
> other financial institution to report it to some federal
> government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of
> the money.
> My questions are:
> 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
> 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for
> and reporting the sale amount?
> A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and
> parts cost of building?
> B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? *OR*
> C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and
> the sale price called "ordinary income".
>
> Thanks for any experience or insight.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
> RV-6A
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
That's why I've heard of a lot of planes being sold for "$1 plus other
valuable consideration." Even I wouldn't mind paying tax on a buck ;)
(and the other valuable consideration might consist of a verbal "I won't
sue you if it falls apart"...)
Scott
Charlie England wrote:
>
> RE: income tax implications:
> Aren't you legally obligated to pay either capital gains or income tax
> on the difference between cost & sale price if you sell for more than
> you paid. There's even a place on the tax return for 'hobby income'.
>
> Whether you choose to do the legal thing or the American thing is
> another question. ;-)
>
> Charlie
>
> Dana Overall wrote:
>
>> Richard, there is no reporting requirement by banks to the IRS unless
>> it is a cash transaction of 10K or over. Multiple cash transactions
>> in repetition that indicate an attempt to circumvent the 10K cash
>> transaction reporting requirements, will give rise to the bank
>> notifying the IRS. Unless you are in the business of selling
>> airplanes, there are no income tax implications attached to the sale
>> of personal property. No need to worry about cost, labor, whatever.
>>
>> Remember, you got what you paid for. I only license to practice in KY.
>>
>> Dana Overall
>> Richmond, KY i39
>> RV-7 slider "Black Magic" Flying
>> O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4
>> http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4
>> http://rvflying.tripod.com
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From: rhdudley1@bellsouth.net
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
>> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:45:43 -0400
>>
>> Listers,
>> These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an
>> OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the
>> aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashiers check,
>> certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into
>> your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or
>> other financial institution to report it to some federal
>> government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of
>> the money.
>> My questions are:
>> 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide ?
>> 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for
>> and reporting the sale amount?
>> A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and
>> parts cost of building?
>> B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? *OR*
>> C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and
>> the sale price called "ordinary income".
>> Thanks for any experience or insight.
>> Regards,
>> Richard Dudley
>> RV-6A
>>
>
>
--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Message 11
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| Subject: | Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale |
Guys, I'm not going to get into the regs associated with capital gains but
the short answer is NO Heck I guess I will: sec. 183; Reg. 1.183-1-Reg. 1.
183-4 rev ruling 12,170, 12,171-12,176. TOTALLY different than building an
airplane for personal use and not real property, engaged the the business
of or income producing property. One time sale of a personal property airp
lane WILL NOT generate capital gains.
What you just referred to is like the ol saying, I heard, from my sister, w
ho heard from a worker, who overheard over coffee...........
I really shouldn't even be responding to this.
Dana Overall...............................CPA.........Certified Pain in th
e A%^ this time of year.
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider "Black Magic"
Flying
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:48:44 +0000
> From: acepilot@bloomer.net
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
>
>
> That's why I've heard of a lot of planes being sold for "$1 plus other
> valuable consideration." Even I wouldn't mind paying tax on a buck ;)
> (and the other valuable consideration might consist of a verbal "I won't
> sue you if it falls apart"...)
>
> Scott
>
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> >
> > RE: income tax implications:
> > Aren't you legally obligated to pay either capital gains or income tax
> > on the difference between cost & sale price if you sell for more than
> > you paid. There's even a place on the tax return for 'hobby income'.
> >
> > Whether you choose to do the legal thing or the American thing is
> > another question. ;-)
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > Dana Overall wrote:
> >
> >> Richard, there is no reporting requirement by banks to the IRS unless
> >> it is a cash transaction of 10K or over. Multiple cash transactions
> >> in repetition that indicate an attempt to circumvent the 10K cash
> >> transaction reporting requirements, will give rise to the bank
> >> notifying the IRS. Unless you are in the business of selling
> >> airplanes, there are no income tax implications attached to the sale
> >> of personal property. No need to worry about cost, labor, whatever.
> >>
> >> Remember, you got what you paid for. I only license to practice in KY
.
> >>
> >> Dana Overall
> >> Richmond, KY i39
> >> RV-7 slider "Black Magic" Flying
> >> O 360 A1A, C/S C2YR-1BF/F7666A4
> >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/firstflight_010.jpg
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMi05-WU2D0#GU5U2spHI_4
> >> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >> From: rhdudley1@bellsouth.net
> >> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RV-List: Bank Reports and IRS after Aircraft Sale
> >> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:45:43 -0400
> >>
> >> Listers,
> >> These are questions for anyone who has built and sold an
> >> OBAM/Amateur Built Aircraft. Once the buyer has paid you for the
> >> aircraft by whatever means: electronic transfer, cashier=92s check
,
> >> certified check or cash, and that 5+ figure amount is put into
> >> your "whatever" account, anything over $10K requires the bank or
> >> other financial institution to report it to some federal
> >> government agency since there is concern about the cleanliness of
> >> the money.
> >> My questions are:
> >> 1. What sort of information will the seller be required to provide
?
> >> 2. What are the IRS implications/requirements for accounting for
> >> and reporting the sale amount?
> >> A. Is there a requirement to account for the materials and
> >> parts cost of building?
> >> B. Are the labor hours of building of any consequence? *OR*
> >> C. Is the difference between costs of materials and parts and
> >> the sale price called "ordinary income".
> >> Thanks for any experience or insight.
> >> Regards,
> >> Richard Dudley
> >> RV-6A
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Scott
> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
> Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4
> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
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