Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:27 AM - Re: RV Safety Record (Terry Watson)
2. 02:35 PM - Re: Sorry, couldn't resist (Paul Besing)
3. 05:57 PM - RV6-A for sale (Jim)
4. 08:07 PM - Re: RV Safety Record (rsipp)
5. 09:09 PM - Tools for Sale (John Danielson)
6. 10:12 PM - Re: RV Safety Record (Jake Crause)
7. 10:53 PM - Re: Tools for Sale (Matthew Collier)
8. 10:57 PM - Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? (RV6 Flyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV Safety Record |
This is from the Air Safety Foundation, as quoted in this morning's Propwash
newsletter about General Aviation accidents:
ASF notes that "...Back in 1950, the total accident rate was 46.68 accidents
per 100,000 flight hours (the 100,000-hour measure being the statistical
standard); the fatal accident rate was 5.17 per 100,000 flight hours. Today,
both those numbers have plunged dramatically-7.05 and 1.26 per 100,000
hours, respectively. Those represent 85-percent and 76-percent drops. Fifty
years ago, newspapers and accident reports were replete with stories of
fatal buzzing accidents, hundreds of fatal forays by VFR-only pilots into
instrument weather, and scads of fatal stall-spin accidents. These sorts of
accidents still plague us now, but what a difference 50 years has made."
Of course these are not RV accidents, but I think the overall trend is
undeniable and RVs are a part of that trend. AOPA's Air Safety Foundation is
an excellent source of information to keep this trend going.
What's an "acceptable" rate? That's a pretty difficult question to answer
if you are talking about everyone else out there; difficult enough to become
almost meaningless and not really helpful. For me and those I love, the rate
is zero. I don't want to lose any more friends in airplane accidents, or
motorcycle accidents, or auto accidents or drug overdoses and jealous
husbands shotguns.
Let's say we wanted to be as safe as the airlines. OK, first we all need to
be flying IFR with at least two engines and two pilots and multiple backups
to everything critical. We aren't flying RVs anymore; in fact we aren't even
general aviation anymore. How many of us could afford even the simulator
hours to stay current to airlines level?
We need to recognize that what we love to do is inherently more risky than
many other activities or means of transportation, and take the steps
necessary to bring that risk down to a level that we are comfortable with.
If that level is zero we need to stay under the bed and hope to die soon of
natural causes.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
Scott,before I answer this, please read the Nall report.
Then go to this website: http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/month.asp
Read the RV accident reports for a few years and tell me
if you think it is acceptable when perhaps 75% are
PREVENTABLE
As I mentioned, not everyone would want to make an effort to
not kill themself. Some percentage will do something utterly
stupid and get killed. If they did not have hull insurance, a
family and never took anyone with them I would not worry about it.
Ron Lee
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry, couldn't resist |
And to think all this time I thought Ace was the place for RV parts and accessories...I'll
have to check out Home Depot's aviation isle.
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Nellis <truflite@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 4:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sorry, couldn't resist
Hey, I shop in the aviation aisle at Home Depot. Lots
of good stuff there. :P
Dave Nellis
--- Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.edu> wrote:
> <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
>
> Somebody define a "questionable non aviation items?"
>
> Look it up, it's in the dictionary....
>
> "Home Depot"
>
> ;{)
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
Message 3
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If you are looking for a well built and finely finished RV6-A or you
know someone who is, mine will sometime soon be advertized for sale.
For sale by builder:
TT 50 Hr.
Aerosport-Power O-360-A1A 50 Hr.
Hartzell C/S prop -50 Hr.
Oil filter
Aeroelectric connection Z-11 based wiring
1 Slick mag 1 electronic ign.
55 Amp. Nippon Denzo alternator
Automotive geared starter with extra new spare starter
Navaid wing leveler (accepts handheld GPS waypoints)
Altitude hold
Dynon EFIS D10-A +battery and remote compass module
Analog, airspeed, altitude,fuel gauges
Sirs compass
Rocky mountain Instruments uMonitor & uEncoder also with remote compass
module
SL-40 com - SL-70 Xponder
PM-3000 stereo intercom
Electric flaps
Elevator and aileron trims on left stick
Sliding canopy
Professionally upholstered Conforfoam seats
Removable control panel with removable instrument section.
Custom built aluminium floors.
Nose wheel fork mod done.
Professionally painted yellow (very visible), add decor (stripes etc.)
per taste
Many painstaking hours spent on rigging, fit and finish.
First annual coming up.
I have yet to put up a website, If you are interested in further
information I will send requested info and photos.
Asking $95000.00
Jim in Kelowna B.C.
Contact:
jjewell AT telus.net
Ph- (250) 861-8706
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
What would be interesting to know is how our own RV community safety record
measures up to the other groups tracked. This would require an estimate of
annual RV hours flown to then come up with the typical accidents per 100,000
hour statistics. I guess you would have to deduct our assumed hours and
accidents from the experimental universe and GA universe. It would take
someone versed in good statistical analysis and familiar with how the FAA
and NTSB estimates hours for the GA fleet to make the comparisions valid.
Many years ago I wrote a safety article for the EAA magazine. When we
discussed the article EAA said they had to walk a fine line on the subject.
Apparently they had tried some articles with the safety theme, (accident
analysis etc.) which generated complaints. The articles were prompting
questions from members families questioning the safety of their hobby.
I am fairly certain our RV record is showing good improvement as is all of
the GA community. Perhaps it is time for a serious analysis to tell the
good story and give us some reasonable goals based on good numbers. A good
and improving record would have to be a good thing for all of us. It would
be interesting to know what the insurance companies think our record is.
Dick Sipp
RV4 sold
RV10 N110DV
Message 5
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Hi all RV list members,
I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for
tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance.
I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will
consider parting out.
Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with
any questions you may have. Jdaniel343@bresnan.net
John Danielson Casper, WY
Tools are in very good condition.
TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW)
$70.00
5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS)
$50.00
BEHIVE SPRING
$1.00
QUICK SHANGE SPRING
$1.00
PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER
$275.00
ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER
$30.00
3" SQUEEZER YOKE
$75.00
1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM)
$150.00
3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL
$50.00
RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS)
$100.00
PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER
$15.00
AIR TOOL REGULATORS
$2.00
22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL
$80.00
3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE
$20.00
PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER
$30.00
SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4)
$3.00
RIVET LENGTH GUAGE
$2.00
FLUTING PLIER
$15.00
FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET
$10.00
BACK RIVET SET
$5.00
COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER
$20.00
12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER
$2.00
V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL
$2.00
RIVET SPACING FAN
$10.00
ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5)
$40.00
"OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT
$15.00
#40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
$5.00
#30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
$5.00
ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS
$10.00
ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3)
$25.00
#40 DRILL BITS (4)
$2.00
#30 DRILL BITS (4)
$2.00
#40 6" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#30 6" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#40 12" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#30 12" DRILL BIT
$2.00
RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP
$12.00
LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP
$12.00
STRAIGHT TIN SNIP
$12.00
ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL
$7.00
CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK
$3.00
CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL
$2.00
3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER
$12.00
METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER
$150.00
EDGE ROLLING TOOL
$5.00
1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL
$10.00
PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL
$50.00
TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8"
$5.00
1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
$2.00
3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
$2.00
3/32" DIMPLE DIES
$15.00
1/8" DIMPLE DIES
$15.00
#4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER
$2.00
8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET
$15.00
3/32" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
1/8" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
5/32" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
3/16" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
RIVET CUTTER
$18.00
5 PC ASSORTED FILES
$15.00
4 PC DRILL STOP SET
$5.00
CLECO PLIERS (2)
$5.00
3/32" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
1/8" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
5/32" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
3/16" C;ECOS (20)
$5.00
1/4" CLECOS (20)
$5.00
1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
$20.00
1" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
$20.00
$1,733.00
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different
forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor by
"allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other way
around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are
standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe
on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because
of unreasonable behavior.
Just my opinion.
Jake Crause
Baghdad, Iraq
RV-7 Preview Plans
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tools for Sale |
John,
I would like to buy your tools. I'm in the the process of trying to buy an
RV10 kit and will no doubt need just about everything you are offering once
I get it. If these tools are still available, please call or email me so we
can work out the details.
Thanks,
Matthew Collier
541-419-5634
ivdiggs@gmail.com
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM, John Danielson <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
wrote:
> Hi all RV list members,
>
>
> I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for
> tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance.
>
> I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will
> consider parting out.
>
> Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with
> any questions you may have. Jdaniel343@bresnan.net
>
>
> John Danielson Casper, WY
>
>
> Tools are in very good condition.
>
>
> TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW)
>
> $70.00
>
> 5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS)
>
> $50.00
>
> BEHIVE SPRING
>
> $1.00
>
> QUICK SHANGE SPRING
>
> $1.00
>
> PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER
>
> $275.00
>
> ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER
>
> $30.00
>
> 3" SQUEEZER YOKE
>
> $75.00
>
> 1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM)
>
> $150.00
>
> 3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL
>
> $50.00
>
> RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS)
>
> $100.00
>
> PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER
>
> $15.00
>
> AIR TOOL REGULATORS
>
> $2.00
>
> 22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL
>
> $80.00
>
> 3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE
>
> $20.00
>
> PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER
>
> $30.00
>
> SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4)
>
> $3.00
>
> RIVET LENGTH GUAGE
>
> $2.00
>
> FLUTING PLIER
>
> $15.00
>
> FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET
>
> $10.00
>
> BACK RIVET SET
>
> $5.00
>
> COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER
>
> $20.00
>
> 12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER
>
> $2.00
>
> V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL
>
> $2.00
>
> RIVET SPACING FAN
>
> $10.00
>
> ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5)
>
> $40.00
>
> "OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT
>
> $15.00
>
> #40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
>
> $5.00
>
> #30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
>
> $5.00
>
> ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS
>
> $10.00
>
> ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3)
>
> $25.00
>
> #40 DRILL BITS (4)
>
> $2.00
>
> #30 DRILL BITS (4)
>
> $2.00
>
> #40 6" DRILL BIT
>
> $2.00
>
> #30 6" DRILL BIT
>
> $2.00
>
> #40 12" DRILL BIT
>
> $2.00
>
> #30 12" DRILL BIT
>
> $2.00
>
> RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP
>
> $12.00
>
> LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP
>
> $12.00
>
> STRAIGHT TIN SNIP
>
> $12.00
>
> ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL
>
> $7.00
>
> CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK
>
> $3.00
>
> CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL
>
> $2.00
>
> 3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER
>
> $12.00
>
> METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER
>
> $150.00
>
> EDGE ROLLING TOOL
>
> $5.00
>
> 1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL
>
> $10.00
>
> PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL
>
> $50.00
>
> TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8"
>
> $5.00
>
> 1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
>
> $2.00
>
> 3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
>
> $2.00
>
> 3/32" DIMPLE DIES
>
> $15.00
>
> 1/8" DIMPLE DIES
>
> $15.00
>
> #4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
>
> $15.00
>
> #6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
>
> $15.00
>
> #8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
>
> $15.00
>
> #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
>
> $15.00
>
> 3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
>
> $5.00
>
> 1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
>
> $5.00
>
> 5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
>
> $5.00
>
> 3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
>
> $5.00
>
> WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER
>
> $2.00
>
> 8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET
>
> $15.00
>
> 3/32" CUP RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 1/8" CUP RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 5/32" CUP RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 3/16" CUP RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> 3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
>
> $3.00
>
> RIVET CUTTER
>
> $18.00
>
> 5 PC ASSORTED FILES
>
> $15.00
>
> 4 PC DRILL STOP SET
>
> $5.00
>
> CLECO PLIERS (2)
>
> $5.00
>
> 3/32" CLECOS (100)
>
> $25.00
>
> 1/8" CLECOS (100)
>
> $25.00
>
> 5/32" CLECOS (100)
>
> $25.00
>
> 3/16" C;ECOS (20)
>
> $5.00
>
> 1/4" CLECOS (20)
>
> $5.00
>
> 1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
>
> $20.00
>
> 1" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
>
> $20.00
>
>
> *$1,733.00*
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flying - Privilege or Right ??? |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege
http://www.greatamericanbirdshow.org/airinfo.html
http://information.travel.aol.com/article/air/_a/why-tsa-agents-act-like-they-do/20080123111509990001
I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide SOURCES
for that statement.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,084 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
________________________________
> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:18 -0700
> From: jakecrause@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
>>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
>
> Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several different
forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us a favor
by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not the other
way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure that there are
standards and that is a good thing for the public in general. We can't infringe
on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof
because of unreasonable behavior.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Jake Crause
> Baghdad, Iraq
_________________________________________________________________
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