Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Re: RV Safety Record (mike humphrey)
2. 01:16 AM - RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - (Jerry Springer)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: RV Safety Record (Dale Ensing)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? (N395V)
5. 07:11 AM - Re: RV Safety Record (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: Tools for Sale (John Danielson)
7. 08:43 AM - Re: Tools for Sale (John Danielson)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? (Terry Watson)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? (Charles Kuss)
10. 10:58 AM - Rights (Wheeler North)
11. 12:24 PM - Re: RV Safety Record (Bob Perkinson)
12. 04:47 PM - OT: aluminum panel (Chris W)
13. 05:37 PM - Builder Question (rveighta)
14. 06:37 PM - Re: Builder Question (Timothy E. Cone)
15. 07:15 PM - Re: Builder Question (RICHARD MILLER)
16. 07:16 PM - Re: RV Safety Record (Carl Bell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember somewhere
that some documents written by some pretty smart guys maintained that
certain rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were
guaranteed to all people, not a privileged few. Pretty wide brush
stroke that last one is, and for good reason. And in another document
these same guys clearly stated that government was by the people, for
the people. I know that in today's political climate certain privileged
few would have you believe that times have changed and that these
antiquated documents are exactly that. That government is here to tell
you how you are to live or pay the penalty, because They know better
than you.
Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights are,
and that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed to
fly a plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more
taxes. Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the
government-that's when you start using the term privilege.
Keep your head down Jake, come home safe,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on
several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government
is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government
serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our
government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing
for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to
NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable
behavior.
Just my opinion.
Jake Crause
Baghdad, Iraq
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV safety RV_Stats-1.pdf - |
Hi all,
I am sure that a lot of you have heard of or read some of Ron
Wanttaja,'s articles
He writes article and gives talks at EAA functions about safety etc.and
does statistical studies
mostly pertaining to homebuilt aircraft. I have known
him for a few years and I wrote to him and ask if he could help with the
statistic regarding
RV accidents compared to the rest of the homebuilt community
and this is what he sent me.
Jerry Springer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:24:42 -0700, you wrote:
>> Can can I post this on the RV-List?
>> There is a discussion going on there about how to make the RV flying
>> community safer and how to compare RV accidents to the rest of the
>> homebuilt accident rates. Someone ask how to break the RVs apart from
>> the rest of the homebuilt accident statistics. I would like to point people
>> to your article or maybe you could help us out some way with RV accident
>> statistics.
>
I give talks to the local EAA chapters that go further than the articles.
Attached is a page from my presentation where I discuss RV accident causes and
compare them to the overall statistics. The data is based on accidents from
1998 through 2004, inclusive.
"General Pilot Error" is basically mistakes in the stick-and-rudder skills;
"SALA" stands for "Stupidity at Low Altitude," buzzing, flying up box canyons,
etc. In my presentations, I use a red star to call attention to interesting
results, such as the RV's higher rate in what I call 'cross-country' accidents.
The lower rate of pilot error accidents may well be due to the higher general
experience level of RV pilots, as shown by the median pilot hours.
During the subject period the annual fleet accident rate for all homebuilts was
about 0.94% (e.g., almost one out of every 100 homebuilts crashes in a given
year) and the RV fleet accident rate was almost identical (0.90%). In contrast,
the Glasair rate was 1.11%, The overall rate for all N-numbered aircraft was
0.63%, so homebuilts have a rate about 50% higher than the overall fleet.
I'm currently adding 2005 and 2006 data to my database, and will be updating the
graphs accordingly. Don't expect them to change too much, but you never
know....
Ron
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
Thank you Mike! Was thinking about how to say what you said when I read
your post. You said it very well. Especially "Your Rights are
endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when you start
using the term privilege."
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: mike humphrey
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember
somewhere that some documents written by some pretty smart guys
maintained that certain rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness were guaranteed to all people, not a privileged few. Pretty
wide brush stroke that last one is, and for good reason. And in another
document these same guys clearly stated that government was by the
people, for the people. I know that in today's political climate
certain privileged few would have you believe that times have changed
and that these antiquated documents are exactly that. That government
is here to tell you how you are to live or pay the penalty, because They
know better than you.
Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights
are, and that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed
to fly a plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more
taxes. Your Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the
government-that's when you start using the term privilege.
Keep your head down Jake, come home safe,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on
several different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government
is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government
serves us, not the other way around. That being said, we allow our
government to ensure that there are standards and that is a good thing
for the public in general. We can't infringe on other peoples rights to
NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreasonable
behavior.
Just my opinion.
Jake Crause
Baghdad, Iraq
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? |
Your question about a source documenting that flying is a right got me wondering
about some other things. Is there a source that endows us with a right to reproduce,
eat breathe etc?
The answer to all of these as well as flying is yes. They are found in the founding
document of the United States The Declaration of independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Specifically the last sentence tells me I have a right to fly.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176370#176370
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
Jake, Unfortunately some people in this great country must assume they live
under a form of socialism. As you are obviously=C2-aware we=C2-live in
=C2-a Republic which requires a great deal of individual responsibility.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Socialism relies on the governmen
t to guide them in most aspects of their lives. Thank God this is a Republi
c.
=C2- I have been on this form for 9 years and this will be my last post.
RV building and technical discussions have=C2-been replaced by people mor
e=C2-interested=C2-in determining how the government should run our liv
es.
=C2-By the way Jake if you are serving our country in Baghdad..."Thanks f
or your service!!"
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Do Not Archive=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Tom in Ohio (RV6-A)
=C2-taken over by=C2- standing =C2-=C2------ Original Message -----
From: "Jake Crause" <jakecrause@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08:18 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
Why do people keep saying that?=C2- I see that=C2-=C2-sentiment=C2-
often on several different forums.=C2- The attitude seems to be that the
government is doing us a favor by "allowing" us to fly.=C2- Last I checke
d, government serves us, not the other way around.=C2- That being said, w
e allow our government to ensure that there are standards and that is a goo
d thing for the public in general.=C2- We can't infringe on other peoples
rights to NOT have an airplane crash through their roof because of unreaso
nable behavior.
Just my opinion.
Jake Crause
=====================
Message 6
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Hi Mat,
I am glad your interested in the tools. I am going to the hanger today to
gather up the tools, take photos and inventory the tools.
If I am missing anything that I listed I will let you know and of course
subtract that cost.
I have more clecos than is listed but am not sure the total number. I
probably have 400 or more 3/32" and may be 300 1/8".
If your interested in these (you will need this many) I will sell them at
$0.25 each.
I will charge actual cost of shipping on top of the price of the tools.
I will give you a call later today to discuss payment and shipping.
You can go to http://www.mnwing.org/id78.htm and see a photos of my RV-6.
Thanks
John Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Collier
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tools for Sale
John,
I would like to buy your tools. I'm in the the process of trying to buy an
RV10 kit and will no doubt need just about everything you are offering once
I get it. If these tools are still available, please call or email me so we
can work out the details.
Thanks,
Matthew Collier
541-419-5634
ivdiggs@gmail.com
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM, John Danielson <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
wrote:
Hi all RV list members,
I am in the process of cleaning out the hanger and I don't have need for
tools I built my RV with. So I am giving the list members first chance.
I would like to sell the tools as a package to a new builder, but will
consider parting out.
Below is a list of the tools for sale. Please e-mail me off the List with
any questions you may have. Jdaniel343@bresnan.net
John Danielson Casper, WY
Tools are in very good condition.
TAYLOR 3X RIVET GUN (ALMOST NEW)
$70.00
5X CLECO RIVET GUN (USES STD RIVET SETS)
$50.00
BEHIVE SPRING
$1.00
QUICK SHANGE SPRING
$1.00
PNEUMATIC RIVET SQUEEZER
$275.00
ADJUSTABLE RIVET SET FOR PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER
$30.00
3" SQUEEZER YOKE
$75.00
1/4" SOUIX PALM DRILL (3600RPM)
$150.00
3/8" FLORIDA PNUEMATIC DRILL
$50.00
RIGHT ANGLE PNEUMATIC DRILL (THREADED BITS)
$100.00
PNUEMATIC DIE GRINDER
$15.00
AIR TOOL REGULATORS
$2.00
22" C-FRAME HAND RIVET AND DIMPLING TOOL
$80.00
3/8" STEEL BACK RIVET PLATE
$20.00
PNEUMATIC POP RIVET PULLER
$30.00
SHOP HEAD RIVET GUAGE SET (4)
$3.00
RIVET LENGTH GUAGE
$2.00
FLUTING PLIER
$15.00
FLUSH SWIVEL RIVET SET
$10.00
BACK RIVET SET
$5.00
COUNTER SINK CAGE AND CUTTER
$20.00
12" FLEXIBLE STEEL RULER
$2.00
V-GROOVE DEBURRING TOOL
$2.00
RIVET SPACING FAN
$10.00
ASSORTED BUCKING BARS (5)
$40.00
"OOPS" HOLE SAVER RIVET KIT
$15.00
#40 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
$5.00
#30 THREADED DRILL BITS (4)
$5.00
ASSORTED THREADED DRILL BITS
$10.00
ASSORTED STEP DRILLS (3)
$25.00
#40 DRILL BITS (4)
$2.00
#30 DRILL BITS (4)
$2.00
#40 6" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#30 6" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#40 12" DRILL BIT
$2.00
#30 12" DRILL BIT
$2.00
RIGHT AVIATION TIN SNIP
$12.00
LEFT AVIATION TIN SNIP
$12.00
STRAIGHT TIN SNIP
$12.00
ADEL HAND NIBBLING TOOL
$7.00
CUT-OFF WHEELS / 3 PACK
$3.00
CUT-OFF WHEEL MANDREL
$2.00
3" VISE GRIP HAND SEAMER
$12.00
METAL SHRINKER / STRETCHER
$150.00
EDGE ROLLING TOOL
$5.00
1/8" TUBING FLARING TOOL
$10.00
PARKER 37 ROLO-FLAIR FLAIRING TOOL
$50.00
TUBING BENDER 3/16", 1/4", 3/8"
$5.00
1/8" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
$2.00
3/32" CLOSE QUARTER POP RIVET DIE SET
$2.00
3/32" DIMPLE DIES
$15.00
1/8" DIMPLE DIES
$15.00
#4 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#6 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#8 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
#10 SCREW DIMPLE DIE SET
$15.00
3/32" UNIVERASAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
1/8" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
5/32" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
3/16" UNIVERSAL CUP DIMPLE DIE
$5.00
WOOD DIMPLE DIE HOLER
$2.00
8 PIECE FLAT SQUEZER SET
$15.00
3/32" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
1/8" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
5/32" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
3/16" CUP RIVET SET
$3.00
3/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
1/8" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
5/32" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
3/16" CUP OFFSET RIVET SET
$3.00
RIVET CUTTER
$18.00
5 PC ASSORTED FILES
$15.00
4 PC DRILL STOP SET
$5.00
CLECO PLIERS (2)
$5.00
3/32" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
1/8" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
5/32" CLECOS (100)
$25.00
3/16" C;ECOS (20)
$5.00
1/4" CLECOS (20)
$5.00
1/2" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
$20.00
1" CLECO CLAMPS (10)
$20.00
$1,733.00
Message 7
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Sorry for that going out on the RV list
John D
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flying - Privilege or Right ??? |
If you accept the equivalence in this context of the words "power" and
"right", then the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution pretty much covers
it:
" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
to the people."
I think Jake and Milt got it about right. We do not live by permission of
any government. The government exists only by our consent. It frightens me
to see how many citizens of the U. S. have either forgotten or never
understood that.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flying - Privilege or Right ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege
http://www.greatamericanbirdshow.org/airinfo.html
http://information.travel.aol.com/article/air/_a/why-tsa-agents-act-like-the
y-do/20080123111509990001
I cannot find ANY sources that says that flying is a RIGHT. Please provide
SOURCES for that statement.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,084 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
________________________________
> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:08:18 -0700
> From: jakecrause@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>
>>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
>
> Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several
different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us
a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not
the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure
that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general.
We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash
through their roof because of unreasonable behavior.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Jake Crause
> Baghdad, Iraq
_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL
_Refresh_messenger_video_042008
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? |
--- N395V <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> wrote:
> <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
>
> Your question about a source documenting that flying
> is a right got me wondering about some other things.
> Is there a source that endows us with a right to
> reproduce, eat breathe etc?
>
> The answer to all of these as well as flying is yes.
> They are found in the founding document of the
> United States The Declaration of independence.
>
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all
> men are created equal, that they are endowed by
> their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
> among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
> Happiness."
>
> Specifically the last sentence tells me I have a
> right to fly.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
Milt,
I wish what you say is true. Unfortunately, flying
falls under the same criteria as my right to swing my
fist ends at your nose. Flying like driving puts you
in control of a vehicle which may maim or kill others
if operated in a reckless manner.
That is why our government requires you to possess a
license to drive or fly. This is a democratic
republic. The rights of the majority rule. You don't
have the right to drop your airplane onto anyone's
house or property.
To have the RIGHT to fly, you would probably need to
buy an uninhabited island! :-)
Charlie Kuss
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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The right of our country's citizens to travel between states by commonly
used means is pretty well recognized in constitutional law.
It is a part of why they issue certificates not licenses.
It's about qualification versus permission, the constitutional authority
only allows the fed to measure qualifications. The fact that aviation is
regulated federally is a huge blessing, particularly coming from California.
OMG can you imagine, differing airspace rules per state, ugh, the chart
would be unreadable.
If you have no certificates the FAA can't really do much to you, other then
to recommend action to other fed or state agencies based upon their
evidence.
A state driver's license is permission and can be revoked for no reason
specific to you (Although there would be hell to pay, but the state can do
this) And, with or without one the DMV's can take direct action against you
through the courts, at least in Ca. (Don't ask how I know this)
The Fed can't, and that is also why one can usually reapply for a
certificate after one year in most cases of revocation.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV Safety Record |
Message 12
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| Subject: | OT: aluminum panel |
I was wondering if anyone has some spare aluminum sheet and would be
willing to make a panel for me for a reasonable fee? I still need to
acquire a few parts before I am sure on all the dimensions but attached
is an image of what I need. I will of course fill in all the dimensions
when I have the design finished in a few weeks. I am looking for
something that is between 1/16" and 1/8" thick.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"
Ham Radio Repeater Database.
http://hrrdb.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Builder Question |
Guys, what's a good way to attach gear leg intersection fairings to the fuslelage
where you can't install plate nuts due to a lack of access? I've tried sheet
metal screws, but they have a habit of backing out under vibration. Nutserts?
Don't think they will work due to very thin fuselage skin. Any suggestions
will be appreciated.
By the way, I just finished fitting up my empennage fairing and discovered a neat
way of reshaping the forward edge (the one that should fit around the horizontal
stab but doesn't) I used a heat gun to just barely heat up the fiberglass
(nothing new) then used a bucking bar to bring the glass to shape, all the while
using an air gun to cool the glass. Worked like a charm! Fits close and was
easy to do.
Walt Shipley RV8A (flying) RV8 close to flying
Sorry to interrupt the political discussion with a lowly builder message.......
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Builder Question |
Walt,
I was able to fish some K1000-3's in place on my -8 and used cherry max
rivets that were replacements for flush rivets...don't have the number off
hand...I'm stuck on the road.
Basically what I did was drill all three holes for the nutplate. Stick a
piece of safety wire through one of the rivet holes and ran it over to the
gap between the outer skin and the gear let. Thread the safety wire through
both of the rivet holes in the nutplate and fish the end back through that
same gap and here's the frustrating part, get it through the other rivet
hole and back outside the skin. Once you've got that, you're home free.
pull on both ends of the safety wire. This will draw the nutplate into
rough position. Put a #6 screw into the threaded portion of the nutplate
and tighten the screw with the holes lined up visually. Then draw the
safety wire out and install cherry maxes...Viola.
It sounds tough but really only took 10 minutes or so of swearing before the
safety wire magically found the correct hole. I've got two screws holding
on each intersection fairing. I've got 125 hours and no problems so far.
Good luck,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Builder Question
>
> Guys, what's a good way to attach gear leg intersection fairings to the
fuslelage where you can't install plate nuts due to a lack of access? I've
tried sheet metal screws, but they have a habit of backing out under
vibration. Nutserts? Don't think they will work due to very thin fuselage
skin. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
>
> By the way, I just finished fitting up my empennage fairing and discovered
a neat way of reshaping the forward edge (the one that should fit around the
horizontal stab but doesn't) I used a heat gun to just barely heat up the
fiberglass (nothing new) then used a bucking bar to bring the glass to
shape, all the while using an air gun to cool the glass. Worked like a
charm! Fits close and was easy to do.
>
> Walt Shipley RV8A (flying) RV8 close to flying
>
> Sorry to interrupt the political discussion with a lowly builder
message.......
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Builder Question |
rivnuts will work fine for that aplication as long as you cut the lock slot in
the skin. else drill for nut plates and sneak them in using safety wire and blind
rivets. these rivets are steel install using zinc chromate paste or proseal.
hope it helps.
rick
rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net> wrote:
Guys, what's a good way to attach gear leg intersection fairings to the fuslelage
where you can't install plate nuts due to a lack of access? I've tried sheet
metal screws, but they have a habit of backing out under vibration. Nutserts?
Don't think they will work due to very thin fuselage skin. Any suggestions will
be appreciated.
By the way, I just finished fitting up my empennage fairing and discovered a neat
way of reshaping the forward edge (the one that should fit around the horizontal
stab but doesn't) I used a heat gun to just barely heat up the fiberglass
(nothing new) then used a bucking bar to bring the glass to shape, all the while
using an air gun to cool the glass. Worked like a charm! Fits close and was
easy to do.
Walt Shipley RV8A (flying) RV8 close to flying
Sorry to interrupt the political discussion with a lowly builder message.......
Do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | RV Safety Record |
Amen, but most folks these days are willing to give them away for some
mysterious reason I can't seem to find in Wikipedia. Oh well back to school
for me, I guess need help.
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike humphrey
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
I have to go along with Jake on this one. I seem to remember somewhere that
some documents written by some pretty smart guys maintained that certain
rights, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were guaranteed to
all people, not a privileged few. Pretty wide brush stroke that last one
is, and for good reason. And in another document these same guys clearly
stated that government was by the people, for the people. I know that in
today's political climate certain privileged few would have you believe that
times have changed and that these antiquated documents are exactly that.
That government is here to tell you how you are to live or pay the penalty,
because They know better than you.
Excuse me but I didn't fight in two wars to be told what MY rights are, and
that I ought to be thankful for the privilege of being allowed to fly a
plane, drive a car, send my kids to a safe school or pay more taxes. Your
Rights are endless-until you turn them over to the government-that's when
you start using the term privilege.
Keep your head down Jake, come home safe,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake Crause <mailto:jakecrause@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Safety Record
>>>>>Flying is a privilege not a right.<<<<
Why do people keep saying that? I see that sentiment often on several
different forums. The attitude seems to be that the government is doing us
a favor by "allowing" us to fly. Last I checked, government serves us, not
the other way around. That being said, we allow our government to ensure
that there are standards and that is a good thing for the public in general.
We can't infringe on other peoples rights to NOT have an airplane crash
through their roof because of unreasonable behavior.
Just my opinion.
Jake Crause
Baghdad, Iraq
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