---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/26/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:21 AM - Re: Current crop of pitot tubes () 2. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Bob Leffler) 3. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Tim Bryan) 4. 11:53 AM - IO 360 (Carl Bell) 5. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes (Les Kearney) 6. 02:27 PM - Re: IO 360 (william hilling) 7. 02:57 PM - Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! (Matt Dralle) 8. 05:31 PM - Re: IO 360 (n801bh@netzero.com) 9. 07:18 PM - Re: Garmin 296 (Leland Collins) 10. 08:44 PM - Re: IO 360 (Kelly McMullen) 11. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 296 (Greg Young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:15 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one. Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this). As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb, descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense. My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there, but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS" do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told (Dynon). If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html And these guys make a heated version for experimental's: http://www.gretzaero.com/ They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired. Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more. Cheers George ************************************************************************************* Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US From: Dan Charrois Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me. Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has them in stock. So what other options could anyone out there suggest? Thanks! Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 ************************************************************************************* --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:29 AM PST US From: "Bob Leffler" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes Unfortunately, Gretz Aero has suspended manufacturing of their pitot. Warren has posted information on his web site. Both ACS and Stein appear to be out of stock. From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one. Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this). As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb, descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense. My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there, but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS" do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told (Dynon). If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html And these guys make a heated version for experimental's: http://www.gretzaero.com/ They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired. Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more. Cheers George **************************************************************************** ********* Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US From: Dan Charrois Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me. Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has them in stock. So what other options could anyone out there suggest? Thanks! Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 **************************************************************************** ********* _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:23 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes George, I almost really hate to post this considering all things but I cannot agree with your assessment in whole. I also am an IFR pilot and you are right but. You cannot always guarantee you will not be in ice just because you don't want to. I have flown into clouds on an IFR flight plan with no expected icing. I did not have icing equipment but flew right into an ice situation where it built up very quickly and then quit (about 15 seconds). I had two choices: either turn around and fly back through it or keep going and hope to avoid any more. With ice on the prop, wings, pitot, and windscreen I had a big problem. I was flying a C170 B with the 180 HP engine and constant speed prop. I was thankful to have the big engine because I lost 500 feet altitude (was given lower by ATC) and was still flying at very low airspeed. If I remember right I was pitched up to about 75 MPH just to maintain my altitude. Thankfully I did have a heated pitot because my airspeed indication was critical. It was one thing I badly needed and thankfully had. After crossing the Big Bear mountains, I was given a descent into the palm springs area. Even well after getting out of the clouds I was IFR due to the ice on the windscreen. It shed off much later as I got down below 4000'. The short of this is, if one is going to fly IFR, whether required or not and even if not expected to get into ice, a heated pitot is a smart choice. I have the Gretz in my RV-6. Call me stupid if you want, but I was really glad I had it, and never intended to experience the opportunity to need it. Tim RV-6 IFR with heated pitot. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one. Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this). As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb, descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense. My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there, but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS" do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told (Dynon). If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html And these guys make a heated version for experimental's: http://www.gretzaero.com/ They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired. Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more. Cheers George **************************************************************************** ********* Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US From: Dan Charrois Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me. Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has them in stock. So what other options could anyone out there suggest? Thanks! Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 **************************************************************************** ********* _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:00 AM PST US From: "Carl Bell" Subject: RV-List: IO 360 Hi builders, I could use a little help on engines: I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker shock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K which is what it was when I first started doing my project. Since I have the finishing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go that way or change the lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my options. (done before realizing the issue) ALso a few questions: 1. ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K? 2. Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, thoughts? 3. Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500 on a new lower cowl Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will come in a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is appreciated. __________________ Carl Bell (CJ) RV 7A (Finishing kit) N947CB Reserved http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell carlbell@gforcecable.com Aiken, SC ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:16 PM PST US From: Les Kearney Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes George There are a few too many absolutes in your post. For a/c not certified for "known icing", unexpectedly encountering icing is not a FAR violation - it is however a dangerous situation. FAR's prohibit intentional flight into "known icing". Having a heated pitot in my PA28 or my in -10 (still in pieces) does not mean that I intend to get into an icing situation. It does mean that I am taking reasonable safety precautions to help me manage the situation in the unlikely event that it does happen. This same attitude means that I would not buy a car without airbags even though I do not intend to get into an accident. I am sure that in your 12k hours, you have seen more than a few situations where reality has not matched the forecast. Being prepared for the unexpected is just good common sense. Cheers Les _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: April-26-08 4:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Current crop of pitot tubes Before I make my two suggestions here is why you should not install one. Deviation for Vans plans will add weight, cost and build time. Yes you are right you don't need a heated pitot as a VFR pilot. In fact you don't need one for an IFR plane either (please read the regs before you dispute this). As a pilot with over 12,000 hrs and many 1000's of yours in IMC you can't get icing unless you are in cloud or in freezing precipitation and the temp is below freezing. Very simple no mosture no ice. No freezing or sub-freezing temp no ice. Avoid one or both no ice. So you get into icing in your IFR RV-10 when you get your rating. FIRST you should have your ticket taken back since you should NOT be in icing. You have no business being in it, and if you wounder into it, you should get out of it ASAP, climb, descend or 180 degree. If you collect ice on your airframe that you see, you are in icing conditions and now have violated FAR's and also common sense. My point is do you really need a heated pitot? No. Run some wires out there, but leave it off. So what if you pitot gets blocked, you loose what airspeed? Well you have GPS ground speed. However some "experimental EFIS" do use airspeed or change in airspeed (ie acceleration) to resolve some accelerometer error. Even still they work with out airspeed I am told (Dynon). If you must have a heated pitot, Dynon makes one for their EFIS with AOA. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D180_Feature_AOA.html And these guys make a heated version for experimental's: http://www.gretzaero.com/ They both have some interesting temp control deal which is nice to keep from burning it out if you leave it on. Your other choice is ACS or some salvage yard Cessna or Piper heated pitot, which are old and tired. Bottom line its going to be about $500 of STUFF sitting out on your wing when you get it all wired with CB and a few pounds more. Cheers George **************************************************************************** ********* Time: 01:34:02 AM PST US From: Dan Charrois Subject: RV-List: Current crop of pitot tubes Hi all. I'm working on an RV-10 and am at the point now of considering what kind of pitot tube to put in the thing. The bent aluminum tube idea, though functional, doesn't really appeal to me. Though I'm not an IFR pilot at the moment, I don't intend to remain that way indefinitely, and I'd like to future-proof the plane as much as practical. So I'm looking at putting in a heated pitot. Up until now I've been assuming I'd go with a Gretz pitot - I like the idea of its internal temperature regulation rather than just running at maximum current draw the whole time it's on. But of course now that I'm actually ready to get one it appears as though they're not currently being manufactured and I haven't found anywhere that has them in stock. So what other options could anyone out there suggest? Thanks! Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 **************************************************************************** ********* _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:11 PM PST US From: william hilling Subject: RE: RV-List: IO 360 Try Aeroengines of Winchester,Va. Their phone number is 540-678-1661 and as k for Tom. Their prices and work are very good. Cheers, Craig From: carlbell@gforcecable.comTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: RV-List: IO 360 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:50:01 -0400 Hi builders,I could use a little help on engines: I have started looking fo r a new engine an I must admit I have sticker shock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the major experimental builder wil l cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is there another way. I was hoping f or something more like 18K which is what it was when I first started doing my project. Since I have the finishing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go that way or change the lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have lim ited my options. (done before realizing the issue) ALso a few questions: ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K? Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, thoughts? Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500 on a n ew lower cowl Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will come i n a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is appreciated. __________________Carl Bell (CJ)RV 7A (Finishing kit)N947CB Reservedhttp:// www.mykitlog.com/carlbellcarlbell@gforcecable.comAiken, SC _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale =en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:04 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Four New Email Lists At Matronics!! Dear Listers, I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the following categories: Citabria-List Citabria, Decathlon, Scout, and Champ Zenith601-List Zenair Zodiac CH 601 Zenith640-List Zenair Zodiac CH 640 Zenith701801-List Zenair STOL CH 701 and CH 801 All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives, Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...: Citabria: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?citabria-list Zenith601: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list Zenith640: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list Zenith701801: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here: http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-) Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:28 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: RV-List: IO 360 In 2008 there should be no engine manfacturers selling anything but roll er lifters... Geez... do not archive Hi builders, I could use a little help on engines: I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker s hock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of the major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options. SO is there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K which is wh at it was when I first started doing my project. Since I have the finish ing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go that way or change t he lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my options. (done before realizing the issue) ALso a few questions: ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K? Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, thoughts? Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it seems if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but have to spend $500 on a new lower cowl Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will com e in a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is apprecia ted. __________________ Carl Bell (CJ) RV 7A (Finishing kit) N947CB Reserved http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell carlbell@gforcecable.com Aiken, SC ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== _____________________________________________________________ Click to find deals on GPS Systems, don't get lost. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uMR73TcYxjVbtMzfP1 mrXvh2qvouTzAMECOdwnsFgmisOdd/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:58 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296 From: "Leland Collins" [quote="Leland Collins"]I've had the same problem with my 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to lock onto satellites after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead battery problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge overnight. I just ordered a new battery from www.batteriesamerica.com for $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin supposedly now has the part number 010-10517-01 as a replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The replacement unit is the same for the 396 and 496. Leland[/quote] I changed the main battery and the problem is still there. If I do not fly the plane for several days, the unit stops tracking the date/time. Now the question is: Is it possible to change the "time" battery without sending it to Garmin? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179502#179502 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:18 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: IO 360 No IO-360 uses solid lifters. I'm sure you meant hydraulic lifters with flat faces, as opposed to roller tip lifters that Lyc introduced a few years ago. There is no power benefit from Pmag so why spend the money? Carl Bell wrote: > > Hi builders, > > I could use a little help on engines: > > I have started looking for a new engine an I must admit I have sticker > shock. As near as I can tell a new IO 360 M1B type engine from any of > the major experimental builder will cost 22-29K depending on options. > SO is there another way. I was hoping for something more like 18K > which is what it was when I first started doing my project. Since I > have the finishing kit for horizontal induction, I will need to go > that way or change the lower cowl. I'm afraid this may have limited my > options. (done before realizing the issue) > ALso a few questions: > > 1. ECI solid tappets vs Superior rollor tappets, is this worth $2K? > 2. Dual Slicks vs one Slick and one Pmag $500 + or - a little, > thoughts? > 3. Horioztal induction, will I save money by going vertical, it > seems if I do change the cowl I will save 1K on the engine, but > have to spend $500 on a new lower cowl > > Currently I am thiking of an ECI engine from Aerosport but that will > come in a 23K to 24K and is solid lifters. Any thoughts or help is > appreciated. > > __________________ > Carl Bell (CJ) > RV 7A (Finishing kit) > N947CB Reserved > http://www.mykitlog.com/carlbell > carlbell@gforcecable.com > Aiken, SC > > > > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:06 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296 Call Garmin first and let them take you through the troubleshooting steps. There is a memory corruption issue that causes the same symptoms. If they can confirm the real time clock battery really is bad, they might replace it. Regards, Greg Young > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Leland Collins > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:15 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Garmin 296 > > > [quote="Leland Collins"]I've had the same problem with my > 4-year old Garmin 296 being unable to lock onto satellites > after loosing its internal date. I think its a dead battery > problem because the battery looses about 20% of its charge > overnight. I just ordered a new battery from > www.batteriesamerica.com for $59 plus $11 shipping. Garmin > supposedly now has the part number 010-10517-01 as a > replacement for the original 011-00955-00 unit. The > replacement part has a larger capacity rating. The > replacement unit is the same for the 396 and 496. > Leland[/quote] > I changed the main battery and the problem is still there. If > I do not fly the plane for several days, the unit stops > tracking the date/time. Now the question is: Is it possible > to change the "time" battery without sending it to Garmin? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.