Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:01 AM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (Tedd McHenry)
2. 09:58 AM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 11:37 AM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (Ron Lee)
4. 12:38 PM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (Ollie Washburn)
5. 01:12 PM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (SteinAir, Inc.)
6. 02:38 PM - crooks at Performance Engines (Larry James)
7. 04:42 PM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (Kevin Horton)
8. 05:36 PM - Re: geared drive ls1 engine (Tedd McHenry)
9. 05:51 PM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines? (RALPH HOOVER)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | geared drive ls1 engine |
> That being said, I really get leery about companies marketing stuff for
> airframes which they've done little to no flight testing on.
You mean like Lycomings on an RV?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | geared drive ls1 engine |
Not exactly true as Van's flight tests their "approved" engines and design the
airframe to the known characteristics of said engine.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #40352
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: geared drive ls1 engine
> That being said, I really get leery about companies marketing stuff for
> airframes which they've done little to no flight testing on.
You mean like Lycomings on an RV?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: geared drive ls1 engine |
Hardly a viable argument. I suspect that Vans developed his kit based
upon a Lycoming. Lycoming is a proven design...not some vaporware
system.
If someone want to put their NEW DESIGN that will solve all the worlds
problems in an aircraft and show that it performs as hyped, then the
market will follow. Until then, I remain skeptical of unproven designs.
Of course anyone is free to put whatever powerplant they wish in their
aircraft.
It may have been Stein who listed a lot of questions to ask before you
go down an alternate engine path. From my recollection, it was a lot
of good questions.
Ron Lee
>
>> That being said, I really get leery about companies marketing stuff for
>> airframes which they've done little to no flight testing on.
>
> You mean like Lycomings on an RV?
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: geared drive ls1 engine |
If Lycoming is such a proven product why does my friend up the street
have to tear down is eng that is only 2 years old because he may have
a crankshaft that is not up to specs??
Ollie
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Ron Lee <ronlee@pcisys.net> wrote:
>
> Hardly a viable argument. I suspect that Vans developed his kit based upon
> a Lycoming. Lycoming is a proven design...not some vaporware
> system.
> If someone want to put their NEW DESIGN that will solve all the worlds
> problems in an aircraft and show that it performs as hyped, then the
> market will follow. Until then, I remain skeptical of unproven designs.
>
> Of course anyone is free to put whatever powerplant they wish in their
> aircraft.
> It may have been Stein who listed a lot of questions to ask before you
> go down an alternate engine path. From my recollection, it was a lot
> of good questions.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
> >
> >
> > > That being said, I really get leery about companies marketing stuff for
> > > airframes which they've done little to no flight testing on.
> > >
> >
> > You mean like Lycomings on an RV?
> >
> > Tedd McHenry
> > Surrey, BC, Canada
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | geared drive ls1 engine |
My questions before were not meant to disparage Mr.Warrens product nor his
company. From what I have heard he has a very solid reputation and is by
all accounts a brilliant engineer. It appears that there might even be a
Reno racer compete with a liquid cooled V this year so again I'm not
anti-alternative.
My point in the whole matter is that aside from the technical arguments
there are other real issues to wonder about. I guess I often wonder why
people are willing to forgoe minimal due diligence on new products at such a
high price? How many of us would go buy a $20,000 car from a company who
has zero history, zero products, no car that I can test drive, no idea of
reliability, etc..? On top of that, I kindly ask new companies to let me
know if they have enough financial resources to run their company beyone
customer to customer payments. Despite anyones best intentions our aviation
market is littered with companies who tried hard, made a good product, but
had no resources to keep the company afloat. It only takes one little
hiccup to really hurt many small businesses - being one myself I really know
about this! Just look what happened to Thielert in the past week.
I know all companies and products have to start somewhere so I like to give
people the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't too many years ago we were a 2
person company ourself. It's amazing what pure determination will do, but
it'll only go so far. My questions were serious ones that I'd ask any
company, regardless of product. I do wish these guys well because more
options is better for builders all around. I guess my main curiosity is
that if you are selling a product for an RV-10 (as an example), why wouldn't
you bolt one on a plane, go fly it - for a number of hours, record the data
and THEN sell the product? If you were to show up at an airshow with
that kind of history and data then even I would be impressed!
To Tedd's weird post about Lycomings, I'm pretty sure neither Van's or
Lycoming offered their product combination for sale before it had been flown
together. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't seem to recall Van selling his kit
without ever trying the engine on it, nor do I recall Lycoming trying to
sell the engine for an RV before it had flown on an RV. Perhaps I'm wrong (I
frequently am), but I think both those products had a few hours on the
combination of airframe and engine before being marketed or sold to the
public.
Anyway, I guess it just comes down to each persons choices. It's none of my
business what you choose to put on or in your plane because that's the
beauty of experimenting and it's each persons individual choice - be it
engines, aiframe, avionics, props, etc... It's just that over the past
decade a lot of people have lost a lot of money on particularly good
products due to circumstances people might not have forseen.
>From a personal perspective I truly do wish Mr.Warren well. Perhaps he can
and will answer all of the questions I posted and will absolutely cover all
his bases. I have not heard a bad thing about the guy or his products so I
can't come up with anything bad to say. My comments were mainly aimed at
basic due diligence that any smart consumer would perform when spending that
kind of money. I'm pretty sure some of my customers and/or friends will end
up with his solution, and I'm genuinely interested in how they perform
(which is my whole point here....how do they perform?). I have customers
and friends with Eggenfellners, Vestas, Volkswagens, Corvairs, Model A's,
Radials, etc.. Each one has their own plusses and minuses, but at least on
a flying airplane I can get real world numbers.
Sorry for the long rant! I just though that perhaps some people were
thinking I was against the Geared Drive guys or alternative engines....which
of course I'm not. My original point was that I'd ask that series of
questions to any provider of new components - be it engines, a new airplane
kit, props, avionics, etc..
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Lee
>Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:48 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: geared drive ls1 engine
>
>
>
>Hardly a viable argument. I suspect that Vans developed his kit based
>upon a Lycoming. Lycoming is a proven design...not some vaporware
>system.
>
>If someone want to put their NEW DESIGN that will solve all the worlds
>problems in an aircraft and show that it performs as hyped, then the
>market will follow. Until then, I remain skeptical of unproven designs.
>
>Of course anyone is free to put whatever powerplant they wish in their
>aircraft.
>
>It may have been Stein who listed a lot of questions to ask before you
>go down an alternate engine path. From my recollection, it was a lot
>of good questions.
>
>Ron Lee
>
>>
>>> That being said, I really get leery about companies marketing stuff for
>>> airframes which they've done little to no flight testing on.
>>
>> You mean like Lycomings on an RV?
>>
>> Tedd McHenry
>> Surrey, BC, Canada
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | crooks at Performance Engines |
Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me
and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I
read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is
a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron
Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any
orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone
falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've
had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening
letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no
joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while
maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive
to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I
have no intention of letting this go J.
_________________
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (under construction)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: crooks at Performance Engines |
On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:
> Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has
> owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two
> years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with
> Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no
> matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should
> be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone
> else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same
> category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an
> attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening
> letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back.
> So far, no joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to
> Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more
> difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on
> what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this
> go J.
> _________________
Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough
web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not
resolving this will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would
be to create a web page that gave your side of the story. Post a
link here. Post a link on the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people
link to your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking
of your page. Eventually it could start to appear close enough to
the top of a search for Performance Engines that prospective
customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and
the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau. They
probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their
searchable database saying that there are unresolved customer
complaints. That will deter some other potential customers. Go to
OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling your story, and post them
all over the site. Keep this up long enough and eventually they may
see an affect on their business.
--
Kevin Horton
RV-8 (FInal Assembly)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | geared drive ls1 engine |
My comment about Lycoming was meant to be light-hearted, obviously. But I also
meant to make a legitimate point. What Stein said was, "I really get leery
about companies marketing stuff for airframes which they've done little to no
flight testing on." That is, of course, exactly what Lycoming did by marketing
their engines through Van's. No doubt Van's tested them -- they could hardly
not have. But Lycoming did not.
Fortunately, nobody bothered to trim the thread in their replies, so none of
this drivel is archived.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | crooks at Performance Engines? |
Larry,
First let me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks
at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in this hunt in any way. Judging
from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much
detail. There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability
to evaluate your claim.
I think before reasonable folks make judgments about the
credibility of either side we should have some facts. Otherwise there are
courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on
emotion.
All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfactory
resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to judgment.
Ralph Hoover
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:34 PM
engines-list@matronics.com; lancair-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines
Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me
and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I
read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is
a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron
Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any
orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone
falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've
had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening
letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no
joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while
maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive
to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I
have no intention of letting this go :-).
_________________
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (under construction)
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|