---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/01/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? (Tedd McHenry) 2. 08:42 AM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 3. 10:35 AM - crooks at Performance Engines (Larry James) 4. 02:23 PM - Ever Hear of This Product? (John Fasching) 5. 02:44 PM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (RALPH HOOVER) 6. 03:16 PM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (scott bilinski) 7. 05:25 PM - Re: the money you owe me (Larry James) 8. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: the money you owe me (Dale Walter) 9. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: the money you owe me (Bill Schlatterer) 10. 11:04 PM - Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 11. 11:07 PM - Official RV-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:56 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Flying - Privilege or Right ??? > I wish what you say is true. Unfortunately, flying falls under the same > criteria as my right to swing my fist ends at your nose. Oddly, this uses an argument proving the right to fly in an attempt to refute the right to fly. You _do_ have the right to swing your fist, it just ends where my nose starts. Likewise, you _do_ have the right to fly. You don't have the right to fly your plane into my house, but you have the right to fly it. The fact that the government can regulate your flying in no way indicates that the right doesn't exist. To the contrary, government regulations are constrained by your right to fly, not the other way around. Flying regulations effectively define where "my nose begins." Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:15 AM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should not deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's. I'm wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop and at our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are! Just my two cents. Jim RV9a N492RV (building) ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Horton To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote: Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go J. _________________ Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving this will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be to create a web page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. Post a link on the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking of your page. Eventually it could start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance Engines that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau. They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their searchable database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints. That will deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this up long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/29/2008 6:27 PM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:10 AM PST US From: "Larry James" Subject: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines >>Larry, >> >>First let me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in >>this hunt in any way. Judging from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much detail. >>There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability to evaluate your claim. >> >>I think before reasonable folks make judgments about the credibility of either side we should have some facts. >>Otherwise there are courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on emotion. >> >>All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfactory resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to >>judgment. >> >>Ralph Hoover Hi Ralph, Here are some more details: I own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk. I run a high-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants, medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like. The success of my business is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and expertise. The short story on goes like this: I decided to go with Performance Engines for a "hot rod" IO-540 for my Rocket. They asked for a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days - all in a written contract (by email and fax). The 90 days came and went, I wasn't worried; another couple of months went by, I still wasn't too worried. After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried. We had been talking during this time and there were "reasons" for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump). Then a friend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Performance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno. Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in delivering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back. Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,000. Again I wasn't too worried and agreed to 2 months. This time came and went with no money. Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phone calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an attorney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned. During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were promised "$4,000 by the end of next week" only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later. As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are banking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bookkeeper stonewall. These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit. I'm taking this to mean "more good money after bad" so I'm very reticent to make this investment (most likely not an investment at all). That's pretty much the story. It has been my experience that it is not that hard to "do the right thing" and keep my nose clean. There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare. Even more rare (but do exist) is the "impossible to please" customer. It happens. But even then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean. My dealings with Ron at Performance has been anything but clean. I was quite reticent to go public with this and your response is exactly why. If I read someone making a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this "wronged person" had played to cause this breakdown. In throwing this mud it seems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me. And I didn't like this prospect. But in the end I didn't like the prospect of Ron Munson getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more. And in truth I cannot find myself carrying any fault - the case is very simple and straight forward: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white. The only reasonable conclusion is that Performance Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks. I have received some very nice and encouraging emails off-line; thank you to all of you J If anyone else has ideas on how I can get my money back I'd love to hear from them. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket under construction ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:27 PM PST US From: "John Fasching" Subject: RV-List: Ever Hear of This Product? I noticed an ad in Popular Science about a 'spark plug' called a "pulse plug" made by an outfit called Pulstar. It looks interesting, and I wondered if anyone ever tried one in a Lycoming that was already using auto plugs like I do in my Lightspeed Engineering electronic ignition system. You can take a look at this product at pulstarplug.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:19 PM PST US From: "RALPH HOOVER" Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Larry, Thanks for the reply. Let me again recommend Mattituck!! One remedy is to warn others and provide feedback good and bad. It may not get your deposit back but it could warn off others that could be taken by a crook. It sounds like Ron is perfecting his bad practice and not just caught short for a moment. You are probably not the first or last. Good luck, unfortunately for $12,000 money spent on lawyers probably would only net you more grief and aggravation. Just spread the word. It's probably easier to recover working at what you love than fighting with the crooks. Let us know if he makes good on the refund or not, a periodic note may just influence someone else's decision on engines. Regards Ralph _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:27 PM Subject: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines >>Larry, >> >>First let me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in >>this hunt in any way. Judging from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much detail. >>There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability to evaluate your claim. >> >>I think before reasonable folks make judgments about the credibility of either side we should have some facts. >>Otherwise there are courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on emotion. >> >>All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfactory resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to >>judgment. >> >>Ralph Hoover Hi Ralph, Here are some more details: I own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk. I run a high-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants, medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like. The success of my business is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and expertise. The short story on goes like this: I decided to go with Performance Engines for a "hot rod" IO-540 for my Rocket. They asked for a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days - all in a written contract (by email and fax). The 90 days came and went, I wasn't worried; another couple of months went by, I still wasn't too worried. After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried. We had been talking during this time and there were "reasons" for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump). Then a friend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Performance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno. Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in delivering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back. Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,000. Again I wasn't too worried and agreed to 2 months. This time came and went with no money. Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phone calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an attorney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned. During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were promised "$4,000 by the end of next week" only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later. As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are banking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bookkeeper stonewall. These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit. I'm taking this to mean "more good money after bad" so I'm very reticent to make this investment (most likely not an investment at all). That's pretty much the story. It has been my experience that it is not that hard to "do the right thing" and keep my nose clean. There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare. Even more rare (but do exist) is the "impossible to please" customer. It happens. But even then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean. My dealings with Ron at Performance has been anything but clean. I was quite reticent to go public with this and your response is exactly why. If I read someone making a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this "wronged person" had played to cause this breakdown. In throwing this mud it seems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me. And I didn't like this prospect. But in the end I didn't like the prospect of Ron Munson getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more. And in truth I cannot find myself carrying any fault - the case is very simple and straight forward: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white. The only reasonable conclusion is that Performance Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks. I have received some very nice and encouraging emails off-line; thank you to all of you :-) If anyone else has ideas on how I can get my money back I'd love to hear from them. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket under construction ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:54 PM PST US From: scott bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Go to small claims you can get another 7~8k and then immediately go to the marshals office and have the companies income garnished, meanig-having a marshall sit there unitl you get your money.=0A=0A-Scott B=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Larry James =0ATo: r v-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 10:26:46 AM=0ASubject: R V-List: crooks at Performance Engines=0A=0A=0A>>Larry,=0A>> -=0A>>First l et me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in >>this hunt in any way. Judging from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much detail. >>There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability to evaluate y our claim. =0A>> -=0A>>I think before reasonable folks make judgments abo ut the credibility of either side we should have some facts. >>Otherwise th ere are courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on emotion.=0A>> -=0A>>All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfact ory resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to >>judgment.=0A>> - =0A>>Ralph Hoover=0A-=0AHi Ralph,=0AHere are some more details:=0AI own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk.- I run a hi gh-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants , medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like.- The success of my busin ess is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and exp ertise.=0A-=0AThe short story on goes like this: I decided to go with Per formance Engines for a =93hot rod=94 IO-540 for my Rocket.- They asked fo r a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days ' all in a written c ontract (by email and fax).- The 90 days came and went, I wasn=92t worrie d; another couple of months went by, I still wasn=92t too worried.- After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried.- We had been talking during this time and there were =93reasons=94 for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump).- Then a fr iend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Perfor mance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno.- Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in deliv ering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back.- Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,0 00.- Again I wasn=92t too worried and agreed to 2 months.- This time ca me and went with no money.- Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phon e calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an att orney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned.- During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were prom ised =93$4,000 by the end of next week=94 only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later.- As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are ba nking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bo okkeeper stonewall.- These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit.- I=92m taking this to mea n =93more good money after bad=94 so I=92m very reticent to make this inves tment (most likely not an investment at all).- That=92s pretty much the s tory.=0A-=0AIt has been my experience that it is not that hard to =93do t he right thing=94 and keep my nose clean.- There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare.- Even more rare (but do e xist) is the =93impossible to please=94 customer.- It happens.- But eve n then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean.- My dealings with Ron at Pe rformance has been anything but clean.=0A-=0AI was quite reticent to go p ublic with this and your response is exactly why.- If I read someone maki ng a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this =93wronged person=94 had played to cause this breakdown.- In throwing this mud it s eems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me.- And I didn=92t like this prospect.- But in the end I didn=92t like the prospect of Ron Munso n getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more.- And in truth I cannot fi nd myself carrying any fault ' the case is very simple and straight forwa rd: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white.- The only reasonable conclusion is that Performanc e Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks.=0A-=0AI have r eceived some very nice and encouraging emails off-line; thank you to all of you J- If anyone else has ideas on how I can get my money back I=92d lov e to hear from them.=0ALarry E. James=0ABellevue, WA=0ASuper Decathlon=0ARo =================0A=0A=0A ____________ ________________________________________________________________________=0A Be a better friend, newshound, and =0Aknow-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:05 PM PST US From: "Larry James" Subject: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Hi Stuart, The very fact that you are asking this speaks volumes. The Performance Engines website calls you the Sales Manager. Holding this position in the company and taking no action to remedy the situation defines you as complicit. So where is my money ??? Larry E. James 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 From: SFeatherstone [mailto:stuart@performanceengines.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: RE: the money you owe me Larry, Would you kindly explain. If I do not own any part of Performance Engines. And. I make no financial decisions regarding any part of Performance Engines. And. The information provided to me comes only from the owner of Performance Engines. How exactly did I become a crook? Thank you, Stuart Featherstone _____ From: Larry James [mailto:larry@ncproto.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:09 PM Cc: 'Sara Halcomb' Subject: the money you owe me Importance: High Ron and Stuart, My public attack exposing you and your crooked business is quickly spinning up. Within the last 1-1/2 days you have lost 3 engine sales that I am aware of and directly responsible for. It seems people are reluctant to deal with you because you don't return deposits for engines when you don't deliver those engines. I am just getting started. If you wish to control damage you can overnight me a check for the full amount you owe me. I will not slow or halt my work exposing you until all funds have cleared my bank. Larry E. James New Concepts Redmond, WA 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:54 PM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Stuart, You need to help your company succeed. Find the strengths and build on them. Be honest about the weaknesses and work to resolve them. If you ask people for help, in an honest way, many would lend a hand. Larry did, and what did you and your team do for him? This will bring out all the lurkers, there will be no more hiding. I too have worked with ex cons, and I did my best to get them on the right path. Do the right thing; before this explodes. Ask your management team to send him $100 a week or even $50 and see the difference in public support. We want good engine builders, Dale _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Hi Stuart, The very fact that you are asking this speaks volumes. The Performance Engines website calls you the Sales Manager. Holding this position in the company and taking no action to remedy the situation defines you as complicit. So where is my money ??? Larry E. James 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 From: SFeatherstone [mailto:stuart@performanceengines.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: RE: the money you owe me Larry, Would you kindly explain. If I do not own any part of Performance Engines. And. I make no financial decisions regarding any part of Performance Engines. And. The information provided to me comes only from the owner of Performance Engines. How exactly did I become a crook? Thank you, Stuart Featherstone _____ From: Larry James [mailto:larry@ncproto.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:09 PM Cc: 'Sara Halcomb' Subject: the money you owe me Importance: High Ron and Stuart, My public attack exposing you and your crooked business is quickly spinning up. Within the last 1-1/2 days you have lost 3 engine sales that I am aware of and directly responsible for. It seems people are reluctant to deal with you because you don't return deposits for engines when you don't deliver those engines. I am just getting started. If you wish to control damage you can overnight me a check for the full amount you owe me. I will not slow or halt my work exposing you until all funds have cleared my bank. Larry E. James New Concepts Redmond, WA 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Dale, Larry posted a personal reply from Stuart to the list. A reply won't get to him unless you send it to stuart@performanceengines.com or unless he monitors the list which he probably doesn't,.. otherwise this would be important to them. Good Luck Bill S 7a _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Walter Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 7:58 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Stuart, You need to help your company succeed. Find the strengths and build on them. Be honest about the weaknesses and work to resolve them. If you ask people for help, in an honest way, many would lend a hand. Larry did, and what did you and your team do for him? This will bring out all the lurkers, there will be no more hiding. I too have worked with ex cons, and I did my best to get them on the right path. Do the right thing; before this explodes. Ask your management team to send him $100 a week or even $50 and see the difference in public support. We want good engine builders, Dale _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: RV-List: RE: the money you owe me Hi Stuart, The very fact that you are asking this speaks volumes. The Performance Engines website calls you the Sales Manager. Holding this position in the company and taking no action to remedy the situation defines you as complicit. So where is my money ??? Larry E. James 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 From: SFeatherstone [mailto:stuart@performanceengines.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: RE: the money you owe me Larry, Would you kindly explain. If I do not own any part of Performance Engines. And. I make no financial decisions regarding any part of Performance Engines. And. The information provided to me comes only from the owner of Performance Engines. How exactly did I become a crook? Thank you, Stuart Featherstone _____ From: Larry James [mailto:larry@ncproto.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:09 PM Cc: 'Sara Halcomb' Subject: the money you owe me Importance: High Ron and Stuart, My public attack exposing you and your crooked business is quickly spinning up. Within the last 1-1/2 days you have lost 3 engine sales that I am aware of and directly responsible for. It seems people are reluctant to deal with you because you don't return deposits for engines when you don't deliver those engines. I am just getting started. If you wish to control damage you can overnight me a check for the full amount you owe me. I will not slow or halt my work exposing you until all funds have cleared my bank. Larry E. James New Concepts Redmond, WA 425-885-1200 800-783-9782 http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:58 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete RV-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "rv-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the RV-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the RV-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * RV-List.FAQ - Latest version of the RV-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * RV-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * RV-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * RV-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * RV-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the RV-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:22 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Official RV-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.