Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Re: Proseal remover? (SCOTT SPENCER)
2. 06:57 AM - Re: Proseal remover? (RICHARD MILLER)
3. 08:37 AM - Re: Proseal remover? (Patrick Kelley)
4. 09:53 AM - Re: Crooks at Performance Engines (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
5. 11:16 AM - Re: Proseal remover? (jan)
6. 11:17 AM - Help Alternator stops working at 2000 agl (FASTPILOTRV8@AOL.COM)
7. 03:12 PM - Re: Proseal remover? (Larry Bowen)
8. 04:04 PM - Re: Proseal remover? (Charles Kuss)
9. 04:17 PM - Re: Proseal remover? (Charles Kuss)
10. 04:25 PM - Re: Proseal remover? (RICHARD MILLER)
11. 05:44 PM - digital true airspeed indicator (John Fasching)
12. 06:00 PM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Bruce Gray)
13. 06:22 PM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Jack Hilditch)
14. 07:06 PM - Carb replacement (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
15. 08:56 PM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Charles Reiche)
16. 09:27 PM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Paul Besing)
17. 10:16 PM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (HCRV6@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal remover? |
I remember hearing many years ago in A&P school that Proseal (890) has no known
solvent. There are a number of things that will cause it to swell and soften
it a little, MEK being one of them, but there is nothing that will melt it away.
Sounds indeed like you made a small problem into a big one. I would pull the
tank and remove the aft wall or cut holes in it and scrape out all the (now soft)
proseal with a phenolic scraper, and then reseal the tank with a fresh batch.
Then seal the aft wall in place again or seal covers on the holes.
I had to reseal one of my tanks in the same way a number of years back, and chose
to cut circular holes to work through and then made covers for them. Still
holding.
Scott
RV-4 flying off and on since '92
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal remover? |
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fuel tank
101.
static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can hold .5 psi.
dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can reach 4
psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with checking tanks is the static
pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they need to be stressed
to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it flexes. tearing
the sealant bonds.
so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to test it. water,
fuel, any material with the exception of the original sealant will contaminate
the joint during testing. so how do we remove the contaminates? we don't
contaminate in the first place. the sealants we are using are sensitive to contaminates
so air or better nitrogen is the testing medium of choice.
after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that had over twenty
years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and will result in
a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is always the first person
at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a little longer arriving.
do not slosh tanks
types of leaks.
seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor construction, or extreme g loading.
fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and flexing of the
structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank fasteners are to be
installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied sealant,
wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too long of screw that
goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings. rotation of a fitting
after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches when removing lines.
the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural integrity of this
tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where designed around the larger
transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can be a problem to break the
seams apart without disturbing/destroying the structure.
the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners and seams is
to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the effected area to draw
any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the void. additional rivets
added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
sealant application tricks.
clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most primers but loves a
good cleaned alodined surface.
mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with adhesion
tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for you
proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill gaps.
don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for fillets and fastener
sealing
don't exceed the pot life
mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale really helps.
use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff to be almost useless
for most jobs.
the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not globed on the outside
beside it looks ugly.
tips of opening seams
sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the corners to help prevent
gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
removal of sealant
scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine after done.
tank testing, quick easy and cheap
connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop with three feet
high on both sides
add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side then the other.
you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill slowly.
spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand soap or aircraft
soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything else.
sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way to track them
down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the tank it will show up
any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
rick miller
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Domed nut plates? Van's doesn't supply those or call them out in the plans.
I put a little fuel lube on the screws that hold the access plate on and I
had no leaks when testing the tanks (except once when I forgot to tighten
them down). Should I be concerned?
Also, I'm getting to the point where I'll be hooking my fuel system to the
engine. Airflow performance calls for purging the tanks and lines with fuel
before doing this. What is the best way to do this? Will it hurt to use my
electric pump to move the fuel, or will the filter be sufficient to protect
it during the initial purge? Any replies, not just Richard's, will be
appreciated.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Engine hung, beginning FWF process
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fuel
tank 101.
*** stuff snipped ***
types of leaks.
*** more stuff snipped ***
access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied sealant,
wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too long of screw
that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings. rotation
of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches when removing
lines.
*** remaining text snipped ***
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Crooks at Performance Engines |
Just another lesson in sending large sums to small businesses before
delivery of product. It is common that these small vendors use your money to stay
afloat and then hope more $$$ comes in to fill your order. Of course this is a
terrible business practice, and puts you and them at risk, but happens
anyway. Using escrow is one answer, and if they refuse escrow, that tells you
the
story.
One prominent builder has said online that he doesn't have a pile of money
available if someone wants a deposit returned, because it's already spent...
maybe on his salary...
This is not to excuse in any way the practices of Performance Engines...
My Two Bits,
Jerry Cochran
RV-6a N18XP
In a message dated 5/6/2008 12:02:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rv-list@matronics.com writes:
Subject: RV-List: Re: crooks at Performance Engines
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
Sorry to hear about your situation. I had a similar situation (not aviation
related)
about 6 years ago. Went through all your going through, then went to court
and won a $22,000 judgment. Unfortunately, a judgment against them means
little
to people like that. In all over 6 years I've received $3000 and been back
to court 5 times. In my opinion, exposing him as you're doing and impacting
his business is the best and probably the only way to really get his
attention.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181305#181305
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Hi Richard,
I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I have read your
article with great interest. First ... I have bought the domed nut plates...
they are used on commercial planes from what I understand ... and should
make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then cover the nut plate after
fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against leaks.
Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ?? That is a new one
to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse with water ... and scuff
the seams is fine ??
Appreciate you comments on this
Best regards
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fuel
tank 101.
static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can hold .5 psi.
dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can reach 4
psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with checking tanks is the
static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they need to be
stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it flexes. tearing
the sealant bonds.
so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to test it.
water, fuel, any material with the exception of the original sealant will
contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove the contaminates?
we don't contaminate in the first place. the sealants we are using are
sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is the testing medium of
choice.
after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that had over
twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and will
result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is always
the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a
little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
types of leaks.
seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor construction, or extreme g
loading.
fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and flexing of the
structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank fasteners are to
be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied sealant,
wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too long of screw
that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings. rotation
of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches when removing
lines.
the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural integrity of
this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where designed around the
larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can be a problem to
break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the structure.
the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners and seams is
to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the effected area to
draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the void.
additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
sealant application tricks.
clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most primers but loves a
good cleaned alodined surface.
mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with adhesion
tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for you
proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill gaps.
don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for fillets and fastener
sealing
don't exceed the pot life
mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale really helps.
use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff to be almost
useless for most jobs.
the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not globed on the
outside beside it looks ugly.
tips of opening seams
sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the corners to help
prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
removal of sealant
scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine after done.
tank testing, quick easy and cheap
connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop with three feet
high on both sides
add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side then the other.
you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill slowly.
spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand soap or
aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything else.
sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way to track
them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the tank it will
show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
rick miller
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi
Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I will be doing my hand build
tanks later
on this summer. I have read your article with great interest. First
… I
have bought the domed nut plates… they are used on commercial
planes from
what I understand … and should make a perfect seal with a
“O”
ring .. Then cover the nut plate after fitting with pro-seal as a extra
safeguard against leaks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Do you recommend alodining the
tank skin
and the ribs ?? That is a new one to me … I thought cleaning with
Aluprep
…rinse with water … and scuff the seams is fine
??<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Appreciate you comments on
this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best
regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font
size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>RICHARD MILLER<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 06 May 2008
14:54<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">rv-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: RV-List:
Proseal
remover?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets
cover
fuel tank 101.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can
hold .5
psi. dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can
reach 4<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
checking
tanks is the static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
they need
to be stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
caps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it
flexes.
tearing the sealant bonds.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to
test
it. water, fuel, any material with the exception of the original
sealant will
contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove the
contaminates? we don't contaminate in the first place. the
sealants we
are using are sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
the
testing medium of choice. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that
had over
twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and
will
result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is
always the
first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a
little longer
arriving. </span></font><strong><b><u><font size=6 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:24.0pt'>do not slosh
tanks</span></font></u></b></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>types of
leaks</span></font></b></strong>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
construction, or
extreme g loading.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and
flexing
of the structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank
fasteners are
to be installed wet. and then sealed on the
inside.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
improperly
applied sealant, wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
sealed.
too long of screw that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
failed
orings. rotation of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
wrenches
when removing lines.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural
integrity of this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
designed
around the larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can
be a
problem to break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the
structure.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners
and
seams is to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the
effected
area to draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the
void.
additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>sealant application
tricks</span></font></b></strong>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most
primers
but loves a good cleaned alodined
surface. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with
adhesion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean
up<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for
you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
gaps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for
fillets
and fastener sealing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>don't exceed the pot life <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale
really helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff
to be
almost useless for most jobs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not
globed on
the outside beside it looks ugly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>tips of opening
seams</span></font></b></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the
corners to
help prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.<o:p></o:p></
span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>removal of
sealant</span></font></b></strong> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine
after done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>tank testing, quick easy and
cheap</span></font></b></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>connect clear hose to drain about ten feet
worth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop
with three feet high on both sides <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side
then the
other. you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill
slowly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand
soap or
aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for
alum.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3 face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>how to find that damn mystery leak i have
tried
everything else.</span></font></b></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way
to
track them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the
tank it
will show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of
days.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it
helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>rick miller<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font
size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Be a better friend, newshound, and
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
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style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
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nbsp; - The RV-List Email Forum
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nbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
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Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Help Alternator stops working at 2000 agl |
I have been plagued with the intermittent problems for over 6 months. At
1500 to 2000 ft AGL the alternator quits. Sometimes blows the 5 amp circuit
breaker that goes to the field, sometimes it just quits.
On the ground she works fine, even at 2200 RPM with a full load. On again
off again with a full load , high speed taxi test. Yet, when I get in the air
she quits at about 1500 AGL?
I have a B&C Regulator model LR3C (older and has been repaired) and a B&C
alternator plus there has been no technical help at B&C for the last two days
(Tim quit and the boss is out of town)
So has anyone had altermator problems and how did you fix it.
I have replaced the battery behind rear baggage in my RV8
Replaced ground cable from the frame to the battery
New bus bar with 1/4 studs from McMaster-Carr
New heavier cable (Stein Air) from bus bar to B lead on alternator
Removed 60 amp circuit breaker from system installed replaced with a
firewall mounted DC 60 amp fuse
All cables crimped and soldered at ring end only
Glass panel from OP Technologies has no problem, CrossBow AHRS has no
problem. Radios have no problem
Help? any one have any ideas or experience with alternator gremlins
Dane
N838RV RV8a
378 hours
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Proseal remover? |
FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and had to cut a couple of
them off because they interfered with the fuel pick-up. Sometimes
second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
>
> I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I have read you
r
> article with great interest. First =85 I have bought the domed nut plates
=85
> they are used on commercial planes from what I understand =85 and should
make
> a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then cover the nut plate after fitting
> with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against leaks.
>
>
> Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ?? That is a new on
e
> to me =85 I thought cleaning with Aluprep =85rinse with water =85 and scu
ff the
> seams is fine ??
>
>
> Appreciate you comments on this
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Jan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RICHARD MILLER
> *Sent:* 06 May 2008 14:54
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
>
>
> Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fue
l
> tank 101.
>
>
> static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can hold .5
> psi. dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can reach 4
>
> psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with checking tanks is
> the static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they need to b
e
> stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
>
>
> next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it flexes.
> tearing the sealant bonds.
>
>
> so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to test it.
> water, fuel, any material with the exception of the original sealant will
> contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove the contaminate
s?
> we don't contaminate in the first place. the sealants we are using are
> sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is the testing medium
of
> choice.
>
>
> after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that had over
> twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and wil
l
> result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is alwa
ys
> the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a
> little longer arriving. *do not slosh tanks*
>
>
> *types of leaks*.
>
>
> seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor construction, or extreme
g
> loading.
>
>
> fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and flexing of
> the structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank fasteners
are
> to be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
>
>
> access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied
> sealant, wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too lon
g
> of screw that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings
.
> rotation of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches wh
en
> removing lines.
>
>
> the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural integrity
> of this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where designed around t
he
> larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can be a problem
to
> break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the structure.
>
>
> the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners and seams
> is to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the effected are
a
> to draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the void.
> additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
>
>
> *sealant application tricks*.
>
>
> clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most primers but love
s
> a good cleaned alodined surface.
>
>
> mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with adhesion
>
>
> tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
>
>
> gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for you
>
>
> proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill gaps.
>
>
> don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
>
>
> use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for fillets and
> fastener sealing
>
>
> don't exceed the pot life
>
>
> mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale really helps.
>
>
> use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff to be almos
t
> useless for most jobs.
>
>
> the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not globed on
> the outside beside it looks ugly.
>
>
> *tips of opening seams*
>
>
> sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the corners to help
> prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
>
>
> *removal of sealant*
>
>
> scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine after done.
>
>
> *tank testing, quick easy and cheap*
>
>
> connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
>
> connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
>
> loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop with three
> feet high on both sides
>
> add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side then the
> other. you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill
> slowly.
>
> spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand soap or
> aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
>
>
> *how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything else.*
>
> sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way to track
> them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the tank it wil
l
> show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
>
>
> and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
>
>
> rick miller
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
nics.com/Navigator?RV-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
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>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Jan
Alodining the interior of the tank does 2 things. It gives you some measure of
corrosion protection (since you can't prime the interior). Alodine also improves
the grip of the ProSeal to the aluminum.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Tue, 5/6/08, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> From: jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 2:14 PM
> Hi Richard,
>
>
>
> I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I
> have read your
> article with great interest. First ... I have bought the
> domed nut plates...
> they are used on commercial planes from what I understand
> ... and should
> make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then cover
> the nut plate after
> fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against leaks.
>
>
>
> Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ??
> That is a new one
> to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse with
> water ... and scuff
> the seams is fine ??
>
>
>
> Appreciate you comments on this
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RICHARD MILLER
> Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
>
>
>
> Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks,
> lets cover fuel
> tank 101.
>
>
>
> static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape
> can hold .5 psi.
> dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can
> reach 4
>
> psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> checking tanks is the
> static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they
> need to be
> stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
>
>
>
> next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as
> it flexes. tearing
> the sealant bonds.
>
>
>
> so lets assume that you built it close to right and now
> want to test it.
> water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> original sealant will
> contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove
> the contaminates?
> we don't contaminate in the first place. the sealants
> we are using are
> sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is the
> testing medium of
> choice.
>
>
>
> after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal
> that had over
> twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does
> not work and will
> result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the
> pilot is always
> the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support
> might take a
> little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
>
>
>
> types of leaks.
>
>
>
> seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> construction, or extreme g
> loading.
>
>
>
> fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading
> and flexing of the
> structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank
> fasteners are to
> be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
>
>
>
> access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly
> applied sealant,
> wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too
> long of screw
> that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed
> orings. rotation
> of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> wrenches when removing
> lines.
>
>
>
> the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> structural integrity of
> this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> designed around the
> larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and
> can be a problem to
> break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the
> structure.
>
>
>
> the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> fasteners and seams is
> to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the
> effected area to
> draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to
> the void.
> additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet
> helps to.
>
>
>
> sealant application tricks.
>
>
>
> clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most
> primers but loves a
> good cleaned alodined surface.
>
>
>
> mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps
> with adhesion
>
>
>
> tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
>
>
>
> gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad
> for you
>
>
>
> proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> gaps.
>
>
>
> don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
>
>
>
> use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for
> fillets and fastener
> sealing
>
>
>
> don't exceed the pot life
>
>
>
> mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale
> really helps.
>
>
>
> use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2
> stuff to be almost
> useless for most jobs.
>
>
>
> the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank
> not globed on the
> outside beside it looks ugly.
>
>
>
> tips of opening seams
>
>
>
> sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the
> corners to help
> prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
>
>
>
> removal of sealant
>
>
>
> scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine
> after done.
>
>
>
> tank testing, quick easy and cheap
>
>
>
> connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
>
> connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
>
> loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a
> loop with three feet
> high on both sides
>
> add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one
> side then the other.
> you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here,
> fill slowly.
>
> spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use
> hand soap or
> aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
>
>
>
> how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything
> else.
>
> sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one
> way to track
> them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of
> the tank it will
> show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
>
>
>
> and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
>
>
>
>
>
> rick miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Pat,
NAS 1473-A08 fuel tank nut plates are what almost all certified aircraft use.
See
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=2381/index.html
I used them in my project on the recommendation of my local RV guru. That said,
there are other ways of preventing the infamous RV fuel tank access cover leak.
(Caused by fuel leaking between the common K1000 nutplates Vans provides and
the threads of the attaching screws.
Some builders substitute goops of ProSeal for the supplied cork gasket. This works,
but can make future removal of the access cover a hassle.
Other builders purchase special #8 pan head machine screws from vendors like MSC
or McMaster-Carr. These special screws have a groove for a sealing O-ring under
the head of the screw. If you go this route, be sure to specify that you
want VITON O-rings with the screws. (The standard Silicone O-rings won't hold
up to either 100LL or auto fuels). These screws are cheaper than the NAS 1473
nutplates and work well on tanks which have already been built using the supplied
K1000 screws.
Using either the NAS 1473 nutplates or special screws, allows you to use the supplied
cork gaskets with no leaks and easy future removal of your access covers.
Choose which method you want to use and blaze on!
Charlie Kuss
PS Unlike Larry, I had no interference problems between my NAS 1473 nutplates and
my fuel pick ups. If you want, I can supply photos of what the NAS 1473 nutplates
look like when installed. Contact me directly, if interested
--- On Tue, 5/6/08, Patrick Kelley <webmaster@flion.com> wrote:
> From: Patrick Kelley <webmaster@flion.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 11:33 AM
> Domed nut plates? Van's doesn't supply those or
> call them out in the plans.
> I put a little fuel lube on the screws that hold the access
> plate on and I
> had no leaks when testing the tanks (except once when I
> forgot to tighten
> them down). Should I be concerned?
>
>
>
> Also, I'm getting to the point where I'll be
> hooking my fuel system to the
> engine. Airflow performance calls for purging the tanks
> and lines with fuel
> before doing this. What is the best way to do this? Will
> it hurt to use my
> electric pump to move the fuel, or will the filter be
> sufficient to protect
> it during the initial purge? Any replies, not just
> Richard's, will be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Engine hung, beginning FWF process
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RICHARD MILLER
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:54 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
>
>
>
> Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks,
> lets cover fuel
> tank 101.
>
>
>
> *** stuff snipped ***
>
>
>
> types of leaks.
>
>
>
> *** more stuff snipped ***
>
>
>
> access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly
> applied sealant,
> wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too
> long of screw
> that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed
> orings. rotation
> of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> wrenches when removing
> lines.
>
>
>
> *** remaining text snipped ***
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal remover? |
hi guys
jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and by the way had to follow
boeing spec's so everything gets alodined. clear for skins and gold for every
thing else. besides i like the color. and water from bad fuel is bad for alum
tanks.
larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but when they start to leak change
them out when you pull the tank. it should only take about an hour per tank.
about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter prior to the twin pump setup
it will stop any thing big enough to damage the pumps, but, big but, do you
want to risk your bird on one fuel filter. install one filter per tank prior
to the selector valve. and sleep better at night. remember the airflow system
much more pressure then a carb. i have never like the one filter idea in certified
aircraft. maybe i should apply for an stc for two. airflow fuel filters
are an annual replacement item, don't cheat
Larry Bowen <larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and had to cut a couple of them
off because they interfered with the fuel pick-up. Sometimes second-guessing
uncle Van doesn't pay off....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Richard,
I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I have read your article
with great interest. First I have bought the domed nut plates they are
used on commercial planes from what I understand and should make a perfect seal
with a "O" ring .. Then cover the nut plate after fitting with pro-seal as
a extra safeguard against leaks.
Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ?? That is a new one to
me I thought cleaning with Aluprep rinse with water and scuff the seams is
fine ??
Appreciate you comments on this
Best regards
Jan
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fuel
tank 101.
static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can hold .5 psi.
dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can reach 4
psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with checking tanks is the
static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they need to be stressed
to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it flexes. tearing
the sealant bonds.
so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to test it. water,
fuel, any material with the exception of the original sealant will contaminate
the joint during testing. so how do we remove the contaminates? we don't
contaminate in the first place. the sealants we are using are sensitive to contaminates
so air or better nitrogen is the testing medium of choice.
after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that had over twenty
years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and will result
in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is always the first
person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a little longer
arriving. do not slosh tanks
types of leaks.
seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor construction, or extreme g
loading.
fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and flexing of the
structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank fasteners are to
be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied sealant,
wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too long of screw that
goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings. rotation of a
fitting after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches when removing lines.
the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural integrity of
this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where designed around the larger
transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can be a problem to break
the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the structure.
the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners and seams is
to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the effected area to draw
any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the void. additional
rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
sealant application tricks.
clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most primers but loves
a good cleaned alodined surface.
mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with adhesion
tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for you
proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill gaps.
don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for fillets and fastener
sealing
don't exceed the pot life
mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale really helps.
use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff to be almost
useless for most jobs.
the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not globed on the
outside beside it looks ugly.
tips of opening seams
sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the corners to help prevent
gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
removal of sealant
scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine after done.
tank testing, quick easy and cheap
connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop with three feet
high on both sides
add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side then the other.
you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill slowly.
spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand soap or aircraft
soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything else.
sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way to track them
down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the tank it will show
up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
rick miller
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
---------------------------------
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Message 11
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| Subject: | digital true airspeed indicator |
Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want
a stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type
system.
thanks for a clue.
John
Message 12
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| Subject: | digital true airspeed indicator |
Rocky Mountian Instruments Micro Encoder.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want a
stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type system.
thanks for a clue.
John
Message 13
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| Subject: | digital true airspeed indicator |
Try these.
http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Pages/Smart%20Singles.htm
Jack
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want a
stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type system.
thanks for a clue.
John
Message 14
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| Subject: | Carb replacement |
Howdy all-
Time to replace Mojos carb- she's presently sporting a Marvel-Schebler
MA-4SPA, pn 10-5009, and it has worn to the point that idle cutoff isn't. I also
suspect there may be other difficulties since I'm seeing uncharacteristically
high EGTs, and enrichening seems to offer little remedy.
I know there has been some turmoil of late in the world of carburetors, but
can anyone offer a rock-solid source for a rebuilt replacement for this item?
Thanks From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - do not archive
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
Insight TAS 1000
----- Original Message -----
From: John Fasching
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I
want a stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit'
type system.
thanks for a clue.
John
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
The micro encoder is the coolest thing I have ever had. I have had two of them
now. I just had my new pitot static certification done, and the guys at the
avionics shop were shocked at how it's calibration is perfect after two years.
He said "We don't have King Air's that are this accurate" and "I can't get this
thing to fail"
Keeps pluggin along and accurate within 5 feet...oh yeah, not to hijack the thread,
but it has digital True Airspeed..
Paul Besing
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 5:57:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
Message Rocky
Mountian Instruments Micro Encoder.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
Does anyone know a source for a digital true
airspeed indicator? I want a stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a
'glass cockpit' type system.
thanks for a clue.
John
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
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