Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: Airflow Fuel Filters (panamared5@brier.net)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Christopher Stone)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (David E. Nelson)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Bruce Gray)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: digital true airspeed indicator (Tracy Crook)
6. 10:27 AM - Re: Carb replacement (Carlos Hernandez)
7. 10:37 AM - Digital TAS Indicator/Meter (John Fasching)
8. 10:40 AM - Re: Proseal remover? (jan)
9. 11:36 AM - Re: Airflow Fuel Filters (RICHARD MILLER)
10. 01:39 PM - MX-20 Install manual (Greg Young)
11. 02:39 PM - Re: Proseal remover? (Charles Kuss)
12. 02:40 PM - Alodining Prior to Fuel Tank Sealing was Fw: Re: Proseal remover? (Charles Kuss)
13. 02:57 PM - Re: Airflow Fuel Filters (Don)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: MX-20 Install manual (FASTPILOTRV8)
15. 06:12 PM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (David Cudney)
16. 07:50 PM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
17. 08:18 PM - Re: MX-20 Install manual (Greg Young)
18. 10:52 PM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (David Cudney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Fuel Filters |
On 5/6/2008, "RICHARD MILLER" <rickpegser@yahoo.com> wrote:
airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item, don't cheat
Are you sure about this? Mine is a metal screen and I clean it each
year. I check for wear and tear and after 5 years it looks as good as
new. Why change it?
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
John...
Try
http://www.rockymountaininstruments.com/
They have digital display altimeter, VSI ans ASI
Chris Stone
RV-8 Newberg, OR
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Fasching <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>Sent: May 6, 2008 5:40 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
>
>Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want a stand-alone
meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type system.
>
>thanks for a clue.
>
>John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
Hi John,
You might look at MGL Avionics (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/) and their
Smart/Maxi/Infinity Singles.
I think they only do IAS, but it never hurts to ask.
Good luck,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
On Tue, 6 May 2008, John Fasching wrote:
> Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want a stand-alone
meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type system.
>
> thanks for a clue.
>
> John
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | digital true airspeed indicator |
To get TAS you need altitude and temperature.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: digital true airspeed indicator
--> <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi John,
You might look at MGL Avionics (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/) and their
Smart/Maxi/Infinity Singles.
I think they only do IAS, but it never hurts to ask.
Good luck,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring.
~~
On Tue, 6 May 2008, John Fasching wrote:
> Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I
> want a stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit'
> type system.
>
> thanks for a clue.
>
> John
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: digital true airspeed indicator |
This isn't a good answer but I make an engine monitor (EM3) that includes a
digital readout of TAS (up to a max of 255 mph).
Hmm.. Wonder if there is a market for a standalone instrument of this
kind....
Tracy Crook
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:40 PM, John Fasching <n1cxo320@salidaco.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know a source for a digital true airspeed indicator? I want a
> stand-alone meter, not a TAS that a part of a 'glass cockpit' type system.
>
> thanks for a clue.
>
> John
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Carb replacement |
Many places still offer this carb such as Aircraft Spruce, Chiefs, Kelly
Aerospace and others. Maybe even contact Tempest [owned by Aero
Accessories] which purchased the Marvel line from Precision Airmotive.
They are now supporting the carb line.
Carlos in AZ
Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> Howdy all-
>
> Time to replace Mojos carb- she's presently sporting a Marvel-Schebler
> MA-4SPA, pn 10-5009, and it has worn to the point that idle cutoff
> isn't. I also suspect there may be other difficulties since I'm
> seeing uncharacteristically high EGTs, and enrichening seems to offer
> little remedy.
>
> I know there has been some turmoil of late in the world of
> carburetors, but can anyone offer a rock-solid source for a rebuilt
> replacement for this item?
>
> Thanks From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark - do not archive
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
> favorites at AOL Food
> <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001>.
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
--
Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Structural Engineers Company
2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3
Chandler, AZ 85224
Phone: 480.968.8600
Fax: 480.968.8608
www.sec-engr.com
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Digital TAS Indicator/Meter |
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I am going to look into a Rocky
Mountains Micro Encoder. The only real TAS (only) that I have seen is
the Insight TAS 1000 that was suggested, but I suspect it would cost
more than my whole airplane.
Thanks for the suggestions/help. I appreciate it.
John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-) ...) & Charles
Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely esthetic or is there a
technical (chemical) reason why they are use on different parts of the
aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the "gold" Alodine quite a lot - prior to
painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building. Especially the spar.
>From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well to a Alodined surface -
Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on using Alodine prior to
application of its product?
Do you know "how many / how widely" the practice of alodining the inside of
the tanks are ??
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
hi guys
jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and by the way had to
follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined. clear for skins and gold
for every thing else. besides i like the color. and water from bad fuel is
bad for alum tanks.
larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but when they start to leak
change them out when you pull the tank. it should only take about an hour
per tank.
about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter prior to the twin pump
setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the pumps, but, big but,
do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter. install one filter per
tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at night. remember the
airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have never like the one
filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should apply for an stc for two.
airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item, don't cheat
Larry Bowen <larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and had to cut a couple of
them off because they interfered with the fuel pick-up. Sometimes
second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
--
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
<mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk> > wrote:
Hi Richard,
I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I have read your
article with great interest. First ... I have bought the domed nut plates...
they are used on commercial planes from what I understand ... and should
make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then cover the nut plate after
fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against leaks.
Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ?? That is a new one
to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse with water ... and scuff
the seams is fine ??
Appreciate you comments on this
Best regards
Jan
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets cover fuel
tank 101.
static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can hold .5 psi.
dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can reach 4
psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with checking tanks is the
static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they need to be
stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it flexes. tearing
the sealant bonds.
so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to test it.
water, fuel, any material with the exception of the original sealant will
contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove the contaminates?
we don't contaminate in the first place. the sealants we are using are
sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is the testing medium of
choice.
after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that had over
twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and will
result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is always
the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a
little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
types of leaks.
seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor construction, or extreme g
loading.
fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and flexing of the
structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank fasteners are to
be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly applied sealant,
wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too long of screw
that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed orings. rotation
of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two wrenches when removing
lines.
the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural integrity of
this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where designed around the
larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can be a problem to
break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the structure.
the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners and seams is
to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the effected area to
draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the void.
additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
sealant application tricks.
clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most primers but loves a
good cleaned alodined surface.
mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with adhesion
tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for you
proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill gaps.
don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for fillets and fastener
sealing
don't exceed the pot life
mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale really helps.
use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff to be almost
useless for most jobs.
the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not globed on the
outside beside it looks ugly.
tips of opening seams
sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the corners to help
prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
removal of sealant
scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine after done.
tank testing, quick easy and cheap
connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop with three feet
high on both sides
add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side then the other.
you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill slowly.
spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand soap or
aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything else.
sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way to track
them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the tank it will
show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
rick miller
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with
perfection .. </span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></fo
nt><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> …) & Charles<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is the reason for using clear and
gold Alodine
purely esthetic or is there a technical (chemical) reason why
they are
use on different parts of the aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the
“gold”
Alodine quite a lot – prior to painting … on several parts
of the
RV I am building. Especially the spar.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>From a adhesion point –
paint does
stick very well to a Alodined surface – Does the maker of ProSeal
have
any official policy on using Alodine prior to application of its
product?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Do you know “how many / how
widely”
the practice of alodining the inside of the tanks are
??<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></fon
t></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font
size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>RICHARD MILLER<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 07 May 2008
00:22<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">rv-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: RV-List:
Proseal
remover?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>hi guys<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> jan i was taught to be a litle
anal
retentive and by the way had to follow boeing spec's so everything gets
alodined. clear for skins and gold for every thing else.
besides i
like the color. and water from bad fuel is bad for alum
tanks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but when they
start to
leak change them out when you pull the tank. it should only take about
an hour
per tank.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter prior to
the twin
pump setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the pumps, but,
<strong><b><font
face="Times New Roman">big but, do you want to risk your bird on one
fuel
filter. </font></b></strong></span></font><font size=2><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt'>install one filter per tank prior to the selector valve. and
sleep
better at night. remember the airflow system much more pressure then a
carb. i
have never like the one filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i
should apply
for an stc for two. airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement
item, don't
cheat<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Larry Bowen
<larry@bowenaero.com></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 3.0pt;
margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>FYI, I used
domed nut
plates on my RV-8 tanks....and had to cut a couple of them off because
they
interfered with the fuel pick-up. Sometimes second-guessing uncle
Van
doesn't pay off....<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Larry Bowen<br>
Larry@BowenAero.com<br>
<a href="http://bowenaero.com/">http://BowenAero.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan <<a
href="mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk">jan@claver.demon.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div vlink=blue link=blue>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi
Richard,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I will be doing my hand build
tanks later
on this summer. I have read your article with great interest. First
… I
have bought the domed nut plates… they are used on commercial
planes from
what I understand … and should make a perfect seal with a
"O"
ring .. Then cover the nut plate after fitting with pro-seal as a extra
safeguard against leaks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Do you recommend alodining the
tank skin
and the ribs ?? That is a new one to me … I thought cleaning with
Aluprep
…rinse with water … and scuff the seams is fine
??</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Appreciate you comments on
this</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best
regards</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jan</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font
size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com"
target="_blank">owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com"
target="_blank">owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>RICHARD
MILLER<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 06 May 2008
14:54<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:rv-list@matronics.com"
target="_blank">rv-list@matronics.com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: RV-List:
Proseal
remover?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks, lets
cover
fuel tank 101.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape can
hold .5
psi. dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can
reach 4<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
checking
tanks is the static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
they need
to be stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
caps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as it
flexes.
tearing the sealant bonds.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>so lets assume that you built it close to right and now want to
test
it. water, fuel, any material with the exception of the original
sealant will
contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove the
contaminates? we don't contaminate in the first place. the
sealants we
are using are sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
the
testing medium of choice. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal that
had over
twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does not work and
will
result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the pilot is
always the
first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support might take a
little
longer arriving. </span></font><b><u><font size=6><span
style='font-size:24.0pt;
font-weight:bold'>do not slosh
tanks</span></font></u></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>types of
leaks</span></font></b>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
construction, or
extreme g loading.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading and
flexing
of the structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank
fasteners are
to be installed wet. and then sealed on the
inside.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
improperly
applied sealant, wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
sealed.
too long of screw that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
failed
orings. rotation of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
wrenches
when removing lines.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of structural
integrity of this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
designed
around the larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and can
be a
problem to break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the
structure.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at fasteners
and
seams is to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the
effected
area to draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to the
void.
additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet helps to.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>sealant application
tricks</span></font></b>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most
primers
but loves a good cleaned alodined
surface. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps with
adhesion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean
up<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad for
you<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
gaps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for
fillets
and fastener sealing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>don't exceed the pot life <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale
really helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2 stuff
to be
almost useless for most jobs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank not
globed on
the outside beside it looks ugly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>tips of opening
seams</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the
corners to
help prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is
better.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>removal of
sealant</span></font></b> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine
after done.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>tank testing, quick easy
and cheap</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>connect clear hose to drain about ten feet
worth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a loop
with three feet high on both sides <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one side
then the
other. you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here, fill
slowly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use hand
soap or
aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for
alum.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>how to find that damn
mystery leak i
have tried everything else.</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one way
to
track them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of the
tank it
will show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of
days.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it
helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>rick miller<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Fuel Filters |
bob
all of the airflows i have worked on had an auto type can inline before the pumps
that was the filter i was refering to not the screen.
rick
"panamared5@brier.net" <panamared5@brier.net> wrote:
On 5/6/2008, "RICHARD MILLER" wrote:
airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item, don't cheat
Are you sure about this? Mine is a metal screen and I clean it each
year. I check for wear and tear and after 5 years it looks as good as
new. Why change it?
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | MX-20 Install manual |
I need a PDF copy of the installation manual for an MX-20. I bought a demo
unit and didn't get the manuals with it. I've found the Pilot's Guide &
Quick Reference online but Garmin says the install manual has to be
downloaded by a dealer. I tried all the URLs from the archives and tried to
guess the name and download it blindly. No luck - it looks like Garmin has
truly hidden it this time - unless someone knows more tricks. If anyone
has it already or can download it and send it I'd sure appreciate it.
Thanks.
Regards,
Greg Young
Cell: 281-844-0987
<mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com> gyoung@cs-sol.com
<http://www.bentwing.com/> www.bentwing.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
Jan,
The difference between "clear" and "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.
They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in knowing when the chromic conversion
process has completed. I just did a quick search regarding the application
of Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)
Here is what I found.
http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf
http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf
Both simply stress that the surface be clean.
I only know of several sets of fuel tanks which were built locally, which were
Alodined prior to sealing. No one has had any sealing problems so far.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> From: jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
> Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-) ...)
> & Charles
>
>
>
> Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely
> esthetic or is there a
> technical (chemical) reason why they are use on different
> parts of the
> aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the "gold"
> Alodine quite a lot - prior to
> painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
> Especially the spar.
>
>
>
> >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well to a
> Alodined surface -
> Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on using
> Alodine prior to
> application of its product?
>
>
>
> Do you know "how many / how widely" the practice
> of alodining the inside of
> the tanks are ??
>
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RICHARD MILLER
> Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
>
>
>
> hi guys
>
>
>
> jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and by
> the way had to
> follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined. clear
> for skins and gold
> for every thing else. besides i like the color. and water
> from bad fuel is
> bad for alum tanks.
>
>
>
> larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but when
> they start to leak
> change them out when you pull the tank. it should only take
> about an hour
> per tank.
>
>
>
> about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter prior
> to the twin pump
> setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the
> pumps, but, big but,
> do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter. install
> one filter per
> tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at
> night. remember the
> airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have never
> like the one
> filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should apply for
> an stc for two.
> airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item,
> don't cheat
>
> Larry Bowen <larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
>
> FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and had to
> cut a couple of
> them off because they interfered with the fuel pick-up.
> Sometimes
> second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
>
> --
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
> <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk> > wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
>
>
> I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this summer. I
> have read your
> article with great interest. First ... I have bought the
> domed nut plates...
> they are used on commercial planes from what I understand
> ... and should
> make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then cover
> the nut plate after
> fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against leaks.
>
>
>
> Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs ??
> That is a new one
> to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse with
> water ... and scuff
> the seams is fine ??
>
>
>
> Appreciate you comments on this
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com> ] On
> Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
> Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
>
>
>
> Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel leaks,
> lets cover fuel
> tank 101.
>
>
>
> static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct tape
> can hold .5 psi.
> dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and can
> reach 4
>
> psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> checking tanks is the
> static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and they
> need to be
> stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the caps.
>
>
>
> next problem is the inherent movement of the structure as
> it flexes. tearing
> the sealant bonds.
>
>
>
> so lets assume that you built it close to right and now
> want to test it.
> water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> original sealant will
> contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we remove
> the contaminates?
> we don't contaminate in the first place. the sealants
> we are using are
> sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is the
> testing medium of
> choice.
>
>
>
> after inspecting aircraft with properly applied pro-seal
> that had over
> twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing does
> not work and will
> result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is that the
> pilot is always
> the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic support
> might take a
> little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
>
>
>
> types of leaks.
>
>
>
> seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> construction, or extreme g
> loading.
>
>
>
> fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g loading
> and flexing of the
> structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all tank
> fasteners are to
> be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
>
>
>
> access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause improperly
> applied sealant,
> wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and sealed. too
> long of screw
> that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets, failed
> orings. rotation
> of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> wrenches when removing
> lines.
>
>
>
> the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> structural integrity of
> this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> designed around the
> larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well and
> can be a problem to
> break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying the
> structure.
>
>
>
> the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> fasteners and seams is
> to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at the
> effected area to
> draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant in to
> the void.
> additional rivets added along seam lines while still wet
> helps to.
>
>
>
> sealant application tricks.
>
>
>
> clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and most
> primers but loves a
> good cleaned alodined surface.
>
>
>
> mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface helps
> with adhesion
>
>
>
> tape applied along side the joints to assist with clean up
>
>
>
> gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek is bad
> for you
>
>
>
> proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> gaps.
>
>
>
> don't use to much. or you will get a wavy structure.
>
>
>
> use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b for
> fillets and fastener
> sealing
>
>
>
> don't exceed the pot life
>
>
>
> mix it right and use the correct proportions a good scale
> really helps.
>
>
>
> use the longest pot life you can, i have found that 1/2
> stuff to be almost
> useless for most jobs.
>
>
>
> the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the tank
> not globed on the
> outside beside it looks ugly.
>
>
>
> tips of opening seams
>
>
>
> sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round the
> corners to help
> prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
>
>
>
> removal of sealant
>
>
>
> scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and realodine
> after done.
>
>
>
> tank testing, quick easy and cheap
>
>
>
> connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
>
> connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
>
> loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have a
> loop with three feet
> high on both sides
>
> add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on one
> side then the other.
> you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken here,
> fill slowly.
>
> spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles. use
> hand soap or
> aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
>
>
>
> how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried everything
> else.
>
> sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find, but one
> way to track
> them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside of
> the tank it will
> show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
>
>
>
> and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
>
>
>
>
>
> rick miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> a>http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Proseal remover? |
I am resending this with the subject line changed to aid in easier searching of
the archieves.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 5/7/08, Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 5:35 PM
> Jan,
> The difference between "clear" and
> "gold" Alodine (or Iridite) is only cosmetic.
> They add a dye to the "gold" to aid you in
> knowing when the chromic conversion process has completed.
> I just did a quick search regarding the application of
> Pro-Seal or Chem Seal (as supplied by Vans)
> Here is what I found.
>
> http://www.aviationproductsinc.com/Publications/TDS_PDF/TDS_CS3204.pdf
>
> http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/rdonlyres/22FFA52B-AC2C-4D75-AE20-08E03ACF8EB8/0/asaguide.pdf
>
> Both simply stress that the surface be clean.
>
> I only know of several sets of fuel tanks which were built
> locally, which were Alodined prior to sealing. No one has
> had any sealing problems so far.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/7/08, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > From: jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk>
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008, 1:22 PM
> > Hi Richard, (nothing wrong with perfection .. :-)
> ...)
> > & Charles
> >
> >
> >
> > Is the reason for using clear and gold Alodine purely
> > esthetic or is there a
> > technical (chemical) reason why they are use on
> different
> > parts of the
> > aircraft (at Boeing) ? I have used the
> "gold"
> > Alodine quite a lot - prior to
> > painting ... on several parts of the RV I am building.
> > Especially the spar.
> >
> >
> >
> > >From a adhesion point - paint does stick very well
> to a
> > Alodined surface -
> > Does the maker of ProSeal have any official policy on
> using
> > Alodine prior to
> > application of its product?
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you know "how many / how widely" the
> practice
> > of alodining the inside of
> > the tanks are ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 07 May 2008 00:22
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > hi guys
> >
> >
> >
> > jan i was taught to be a litle anal retentive and
> by
> > the way had to
> > follow boeing spec's so everything gets alodined.
> clear
> > for skins and gold
> > for every thing else. besides i like the color. and
> water
> > from bad fuel is
> > bad for alum tanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > larry if they don't leak now why play with it. but
> when
> > they start to leak
> > change them out when you pull the tank. it should only
> take
> > about an hour
> > per tank.
> >
> >
> >
> > about fuel filters, airflow performance has a filter
> prior
> > to the twin pump
> > setup it will stop any thing big enough to damage the
> > pumps, but, big but,
> > do you want to risk your bird on one fuel filter.
> install
> > one filter per
> > tank prior to the selector valve. and sleep better at
> > night. remember the
> > airflow system much more pressure then a carb. i have
> never
> > like the one
> > filter idea in certified aircraft. maybe i should
> apply for
> > an stc for two.
> > airflow fuel filters are an annual replacement item,
> > don't cheat
> >
> > Larry Bowen <larry@bowenaero.com> wrote:
> >
> > FYI, I used domed nut plates on my RV-8 tanks....and
> had to
> > cut a couple of
> > them off because they interfered with the fuel
> pick-up.
> > Sometimes
> > second-guessing uncle Van doesn't pay off....
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com <http://bowenaero.com/>
> >
> > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, jan
> > <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
> > <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be doing my hand build tanks later on this
> summer. I
> > have read your
> > article with great interest. First ... I have bought
> the
> > domed nut plates...
> > they are used on commercial planes from what I
> understand
> > ... and should
> > make a perfect seal with a "O" ring .. Then
> cover
> > the nut plate after
> > fitting with pro-seal as a extra safeguard against
> leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you recommend alodining the tank skin and the ribs
> ??
> > That is a new one
> > to me ... I thought cleaning with Aluprep ...rinse
> with
> > water ... and scuff
> > the seams is fine ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Appreciate you comments on this
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> > <mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com> ] On
> > Behalf Of RICHARD MILLER
> > Sent: 06 May 2008 14:54
> > To: rv-list@matronics.com
> > <mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal remover?
> >
> >
> >
> > Since we seem to have so many complaints about fuel
> leaks,
> > lets cover fuel
> > tank 101.
> >
> >
> >
> > static loads on a fuel tank are less then .5 psi. duct
> tape
> > can hold .5 psi.
> > dynamic loads are variable due to high g loading and
> can
> > reach 4
> >
> > psi, with tank destruction emanate. the problem with
> > checking tanks is the
> > static pressure loading is applied to all surfaces and
> they
> > need to be
> > stressed to handle that load. most are not ie, the
> caps.
> >
> >
> >
> > next problem is the inherent movement of the structure
> as
> > it flexes. tearing
> > the sealant bonds.
> >
> >
> >
> > so lets assume that you built it close to right and
> now
> > want to test it.
> > water, fuel, any material with the exception of the
> > original sealant will
> > contaminate the joint during testing. so how do we
> remove
> > the contaminates?
> > we don't contaminate in the first place. the
> sealants
> > we are using are
> > sensitive to contaminates so air or better nitrogen is
> the
> > testing medium of
> > choice.
> >
> >
> >
> > after inspecting aircraft with properly applied
> pro-seal
> > that had over
> > twenty years in service, the stuff sticks. sloshing
> does
> > not work and will
> > result in a crash, the unfortunate part of this is
> that the
> > pilot is always
> > the first person at the crash site.. fire and medic
> support
> > might take a
> > little longer arriving. do not slosh tanks
> >
> >
> >
> > types of leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > seam leaks, very rare, normally caused by poor
> > construction, or extreme g
> > loading.
> >
> >
> >
> > fastener leaks, more common also caused by high g
> loading
> > and flexing of the
> > structure, compounded but poor sealing practices. all
> tank
> > fasteners are to
> > be installed wet. and then sealed on the inside.
> >
> >
> >
> > access plate/fitting leaks, most common. cause
> improperly
> > applied sealant,
> > wrong nut plates , they should be all domed and
> sealed. too
> > long of screw
> > that goes through the nut plate dome. bad gaskets,
> failed
> > orings. rotation
> > of a fitting after sealant has dried. always use two
> > wrenches when removing
> > lines.
> >
> >
> >
> > the primary problem with tank repair is the lack of
> > structural integrity of
> > this tank. riveted tanks and the repair tricks where
> > designed around the
> > larger transport type aircraft. pro-seal sticks well
> and
> > can be a problem to
> > break the seams apart without disturbing/destroying
> the
> > structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > the best way that i have found to stop small leaks at
> > fasteners and seams is
> > to apply a heavy vacuum to the outside of the tank at
> the
> > effected area to
> > draw any remaining fuel out and and suck the sealant
> in to
> > the void.
> > additional rivets added along seam lines while still
> wet
> > helps to.
> >
> >
> >
> > sealant application tricks.
> >
> >
> >
> > clean /clean /clean. pro-seal dose not like oil and
> most
> > primers but loves a
> > good cleaned alodined surface.
> >
> >
> >
> > mechanical grip/ light scuff on a flaying surface
> helps
> > with adhesion
> >
> >
> >
> > tape applied along side the joints to assist with
> clean up
> >
> >
> >
> > gloves, this stuff does not like to come off and mek
> is bad
> > for you
> >
> >
> >
> > proper fit of parts, don't expect pro-seal to fill
> > gaps.
> >
> >
> >
> > don't use to much. or you will get a wavy
> structure.
> >
> >
> >
> > use type a for seams it helps with waves and type b
> for
> > fillets and fastener
> > sealing
> >
> >
> >
> > don't exceed the pot life
> >
> >
> >
> > mix it right and use the correct proportions a good
> scale
> > really helps.
> >
> >
> >
> > use the longest pot life you can, i have found that
> 1/2
> > stuff to be almost
> > useless for most jobs.
> >
> >
> >
> > the proper place for sealant is on the inside of the
> tank
> > not globed on the
> > outside beside it looks ugly.
> >
> >
> >
> > tips of opening seams
> >
> >
> >
> > sharpend putty knives are great but be sure to round
> the
> > corners to help
> > prevent gouges. take your time here. gentle is better.
> >
> >
> >
> > removal of sealant
> >
> >
> >
> > scotch bright disks work great. wear a mask. and
> realodine
> > after done.
> >
> >
> >
> > tank testing, quick easy and cheap
> >
> >
> >
> > connect air/nitrogen supply to vent
> >
> > connect clear hose to drain about ten feet worth
> >
> > loop hose to floor and fill with water until you have
> a
> > loop with three feet
> > high on both sides
> >
> > add nitrogen until the water is four feet higher on
> one
> > side then the other.
> > you now have 2 psi in the tank. care should be taken
> here,
> > fill slowly.
> >
> > spray the seams with soapy water and look for bubbles.
> use
> > hand soap or
> > aircraft soap, some soaps are bad for alum.
> >
> >
> >
> > how to find that damn mystery leak i have tried
> everything
> > else.
> >
> > sometimes really small leaks are the worse to find,
> but one
> > way to track
> > them down is to apply dye-pen developer to the outside
> of
> > the tank it will
> > show up any tiny leaks. over a couple of days.
> >
> >
> >
> > and this ends fuel tank 101 hope it helps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > rick miller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> >
> >
> >
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > a>http://forums.matronics.com
> > <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> >
> >
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List>
> > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Airflow Fuel Filters |
The filter element does not need to be replaced. Just inspect and clean at your
condition inspection. If you need new O-rings, give us a call, the Viton O-rings
are a few bucks for the set.
Don at Airflow Performance
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181794#181794
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: MX-20 Install manual |
Greg
I think I have one but I am not going up to the hangar until Sunday . I you haven't
gotten a copy by then call me
my cell 847-727-0026
Dane
N838RV RV8a
In a message dated 05/07/08 15:41:10 Central Daylight Time, gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
I need a PDF copy of the installation manual for an MX-20. I bought a demo unit
and didn't get the manuals with it. I've found the Pilot's Guide & Quick Reference
online but Garmin says the install manual has to be downloaded by a dealer.
I tried all the URLs from the archives and tried to guess the name and download
it blindly. No luck - it looks like Garmin has truly hidden it this time
- unless someone knows more tricks. If anyone has it already or can download
it and send it I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.
Regards,
Greg Young
Cell: 281-844-0987
gyoung@cs-sol.com
www.bentwing.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
from Dave Cudney RV 7A struggler
> I am getting further along with my project and was just buttoning up
> a few odds an ends when I came to the sniffle valve for my IO 369.
> On the tail dragger there is not much of a problem routing the drain
> line from the sniffle valve --- but on the nose dragger, the nose
> gear bracing on the engine mount is in the way. Has any one out
> there solved this problem and what did you do?
Thanks in advance
dave
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
In a message dated 05/07/2008 8:14:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
yenduc@sbcglobal.net writes:
Has any one out
> there solved this problem and what did you do?
On a recently installed valve on an Aerosport IO-360 with AFP injection
mounted to forward sump (-7A), I had more of a problem getting the drain tube away
from the Vetterman crossovers. I cut the tube from the sniffle valve fairly
short (1"?) and soldered a brass 90 deg. fitting to it. The other end of this
fitting (from the aviation plumbing aisle at Lowes) provided for connection
for a copper tube the same size as from the sniffle valve (1/8"?) using a brass
compresion ferule. I installed the valve, then bent/routed a copper tube from
the 90 aft, securing it mid-length to the exhaust hangar cross-piece and
extended it aft out the air outlet so that when it drips (which it WILL) the fuel
will simply drop to the ground rather than down the nose gear fairing and onto
the pant.
Not sure if this will help with your situation, but it may offer some
options...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 17
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| Subject: | MX-20 Install manual |
Thank you all. I got the manual sent to me off list. Even after all these
years I still marvel at the speed of response on the lists. Thanks!
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FASTPILOTRV8
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: MX-20 Install manual
Greg
I think I have one but I am not going up to the hangar until Sunday . I you
haven't gotten a copy by then call me
my cell 847-727-0026
Dane
N838RV RV8a
In a message dated 05/07/08 15:41:10 Central Daylight Time,
gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
I need a PDF copy of the installation manual for an MX-20. I bought a demo
unit and didn't get the manuals with it. I've found the Pilot's Guide &
Quick Reference online but Garmin says the install manual has to be
downloaded by a dealer. I tried all the URLs from the archives and tried to
guess the name and download it blindly. No luck - it looks like Garmin has
truly hidden it this time - unless someone knows more tricks. If anyone
has it already or can download it and send it I'd sure appreciate it.
Thanks.
Regards,
Greg Young
Cell: 281-844-0987
<mailto:gyoung@cs-sol.com> gyoung@cs-sol.com
<http://www.bentwing.com/> www.bentwing.com
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"
alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?RV-List
.matronics.com"
alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution"
alt="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution
_____
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A |
Thanks --- I've got one of those aviation plumbing stores close by --
I'll try your method.
dave
On May 7, 2008, at 7:47 PM, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 05/07/2008 8:14:16 PM Central Daylight Time, yenduc@sbcglobal.net
> writes:
> Has any one out
> > there solved this problem and what did you do?
> On a recently installed valve on an Aerosport IO-360 with AFP
> injection mounted to forward sump (-7A), I had more of a problem
> getting the drain tube away from the Vetterman crossovers. I cut
> the tube from the sniffle valve fairly short (1"?) and soldered a
> brass 90 deg. fitting to it. The other end of this fitting (from
> the aviation plumbing aisle at Lowes) provided for connection for a
> copper tube the same size as from the sniffle valve (1/8"?) using a
> brass compresion ferule. I installed the valve, then bent/routed a
> copper tube from the 90 aft, securing it mid-length to the exhaust
> hangar cross-piece and extended it aft out the air outlet so that
> when it drips (which it WILL) the fuel will simply drop to the
> ground rather than down the nose gear fairing and onto the pant.
>
> Not sure if this will help with your situation, but it may offer
> some options...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
>
>
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
> favorites at AOL Food.
>
>
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