---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/10/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:57 AM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 2. 08:09 AM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (Charles Kuss) 3. 08:37 AM - Re: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib (Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty) 4. 08:50 AM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (Valovich, Paul) 5. 09:00 AM - Re: RV8-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib (Brian Huffaker) 6. 09:24 AM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (mr.gsun@gmail.com) 7. 06:00 PM - Re: RV9-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib (Ralph Cloud) 8. 06:53 PM - Re: crooks at Performance Engines (Brian Meyette) 9. 08:37 PM - Re: sniffle valve in RV 7A (Fiveonepw@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:43 AM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Brian, Thanks for this information, I have been on your site many times over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have done to help me and other builders in this process. I still use the information you sent three years ago, regarding my question on how much we should torque down nuts and bolts. At one time, on your website, you had a parity regarding the government and ordering food from a fast food restaurant and how the person taking your order was reviewing your health history online, prior to letting you order. :-) I also enjoyed reading your hangar building process and dealing with all the bureaucrats who get their check on Friday and could careless if you ever get your building constructed. Thanks for making me smile. Keep working on your RV7 and I will continue to work on my RV9. If and when I order my motor and bigger items I will be checking your site for recommend vendors. Thanks. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with various vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, but here have been some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has outright ripped me off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are mostly just poor customer service & bad attitudes. It isn=92t an all-encompassing list; just my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in building my plane. Brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should not deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's. I'm wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop and at our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are! Just my two cents. Jim RV9a N492RV (building) ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Horton To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote: Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go J. _________________ Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving this will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be to create a web page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. Post a link on the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking of your page. Eventually it could start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance Engines that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau. They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their searchable database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints. That will deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this up long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m atronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.mat ronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 4/29/2008 6:27 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM Checked by AVG. 5/8/2008 5:24 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/9/2008 12:38 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:14 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Brian, Thanks for the link to your site. I'd like to put in a good word for Rocky Mountain Instruments. I purchased both their Micro Encoder and Micro Monitor products used, from other RV owners (they upgraded). My Micro Monitor was missing several buttons. I also wanted to add the fuel totalizer feature. I called RMI, he sold me the fuel flow transducer at a price $80 lower than the next lowest competitor. I explained that I had purchased the products used. He asked for the serial numbers and my info. He likes to keep track of where is products are. He also sent me a complete set of buttons for the Micro Monitor for free (even the shipping). My MicroEncoder has a minor scratch on it's display face. I was able to purchase a replacement display for $24.95! Can you imagine what Garmin would charge for a damaged display?? $$$$$$ Mr. Mower answered tons of questions regarding his products, was very polite and shipped my items immediately. I highly recommend RMI. Charlie Kuss --- On Fri, 5/9/08, Brian Meyette wrote: > From: Brian Meyette > Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 2:02 PM > I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences > with various > vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, > but here have been > some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has > outright ripped me > off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are > mostly just poor > customer service & bad attitudes. It isnt an > all-encompassing list; just > my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in > building my plane. > > Brian > > HYPERLINK > "http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/ven > dors.htm > > > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Fogarty at > Lakes & Leisure Realty > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines > > > > We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and > vendors we should not > deal with and that list should be on the search page for > all RV's. I'm > wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in > the shop and at > our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks > are! Just my two > cents. > > > > Jim > > RV9a N492RV (building) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: HYPERLINK > "mailto:khorton01@rogers.com"Kevin Horton > > To: HYPERLINK > "mailto:rv-list@matronics.com"rv-list@matronics.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM > > Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines > > > > On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote: > > > > > > Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance > Engines has owed me > and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two > years now. I > read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with > Mike Moore and mine is > a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you > slice it Ron > Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let > alone receive any > orders from any of us or anyone else. His > "salesman" Stuart Featherstone > falls into the same category. I've tried being nice > talking with him, I've > had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney > send threatening > letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my > money back. So far, no > joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada > while > maintaining operations in California; making it more > difficult and expensive > to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with > this crook ?? I > have no intention of letting this go :-). > _________________ > > > > Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to > get enough web > coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that > not resolving this > will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be > to create a web > page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. > Post a link on > the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web > page, that will > start to increase the Google ranking of your page. > Eventually it could > start to appear close enough to the top of a search for > Performance Engines > that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the > attention of > AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better > Business Bureau. > They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry > in their searchable > database saying that there are unresolved customer > complaints. That will > deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a > whole stack of > flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. > Keep this up > long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their > business. > > > > > > -- > > Kevin Horton > > RV-8 (FInal Assembly) > > Ottawa, Canada > > HYPERLINK > "http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8"http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N > avigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > _____ > > > 4/29/2008 6:27 PM > > > > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navigat > or?RV-List > "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > 7.5.524 / > > Checked by AVG. > 5/8/2008 > 5:24 PM Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:47 AM PST US From: "Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty" Subject: Re: RV-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib Garey, I would not do any bending, the bearings goes into platenuts that you have installed on the forward side of the aft rudder spar, only use the original computer punched holes in all rib, skin and spar. The lower bearing in my RV9 has a longer shaft than the upper two bearing on the rudder. Set the distance on each bearing, per the plans, by using a scrap piece of aluminum for a jag between the rudder aft spar and the bolt hole in the bearing. If you have your fuselage done, then install the HS, VS and then attach your rudder. I did not do this until I had my fuselage and then I did my install and the gap came out just fine. I'm not sure I'm answering your question, but I hope this helps. Think platenut.... Jim RV9a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garey Wittich" ; Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:24 PM Subject: RV-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib > > Greetings: > > The construction of my RV8A (RV7 and RV9 are the > same) the Rudders Top Rib swings OVER the top Rib of > the VS. There is suppose to be a "Gap" between the > two Ribs so that there is no interference (rubbing of > them together) as the Rudder is moved. > > My question is - how do you set this Gap up ??? > > It seems to me that the Rod End Bearings on the Rudder > Spar need to be screwed into the Rudder Spar the " > Final" distance so that the Gap can be set up properly > BEFORE the Rudder Skin is finally riveted to the > Rudders Top Rib (R703) which sets this Gap. My > understanding the dimensions for screwing the Rod End > Bearings as shown on the Drawing 7 is only > "approximate" and needs to be fined tuned later = this > could change this Gap distance. > > Or if one marks a center-line on the flange of the > Rudders Top Rib and aligns the pre-punched holes in > the Rudder Skin directly over the "center of this > line", does it Guarantee automatic clearance and a > constant Gap distance when the Rod End bearings are > set to their "Final" screwed-in distance ?????? > > The Orndorff Tapes show the Rod End bearings installed > in the Rudder Spar (no Rod End Bearing dimensions > given) and mounted to the VS and the Gap set by > bending Up the Rudders Top Rib (R703) to parallel the > VS Top Rib. Maybe I am missing something. So what > worked for you - set the Rod End Bearings "approx" or > align the pre-punched holes in the Rudder Skin > directly over the marked center-line on the Rudders > Top Rib flange and THEN rivet the Rudder Skin ???? > > Once the Rudder Skin is riveted to the Rudders Top > Rib, the Rudders Top Rib is fixed and can NOT be > readjusted to get the "correct Gap" later. > > Appreciate your help, Garey Wittich > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 12:38 PM > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:58 AM PST US From: "Valovich, Paul" Subject: Re: RV-List: sniffle valve in RV 7A I purchased a new IO-360 from Aerosport. It had provisions for a sniffle va lve, so I installed it. Pretty much a no-brainer installation, although I h aven't reached the first engine start page yet. Am I missing something? What's the downside of having a sniffle valve? My plane will be based at Inyokern in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Summ er heat will be an issue. Seemed to me, anything that helped prevent vapor lock problems was ok. Paul Valovich RV-8A N192NM LuJaRo Wiring 99% done - canopy is next ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:36 AM PST US From: Brian Huffaker Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib On Fri, 9 May 2008, Garey Wittich wrote: > --> RV8-List message posted by: Garey Wittich > > Greetings: > > The construction of my RV8A (RV7 and RV9 are the > same) the Rudders Top Rib swings OVER the top Rib of > the VS. There is suppose to be a "Gap" between the > two Ribs so that there is no interference (rubbing of > them together) as the Rudder is moved. > > My question is - how do you set this Gap up ??? On mine, I had to file the top of the VS down a bit to get the needed gap. Given the pre-punched holes, there isn't a lot you can play with, other than changing how far the rod ends are screwed in, move the top ones a bit further out than the bottom (keeping them in line of course). Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@xmission.com) RV-8A 80091 riviting fuse. 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:24 AM PST US From: mr.gsun@gmail.com Subject: Re: RV-List: sniffle valve in RV 7A I installed a sniffle valve on my 4 year old RV-7 after speaking to the Aerosport folks. I've been having hot start- flooding issues IO-360 w/forward facing induction. The problem is gone now and it starts every time. However, I can't say whether the solution was the new battery I installed, the valve or my improved starting technique. Unfortunately, I couldn't get the valve installed in the rear of the sump so a little gas sits there after a hot shut-down. I know this because I can lift the tail and see a bit of fuel drip out from the sniffle valve. There are two spots to install the valve on my engine but the rear spot isn't usable due to exhaust components, etc. Just some info. Do not Archive On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Valovich, Paul wrote: > I purchased a new IO-360 from Aerosport. It had provisions for a sniffle > valve, so I installed it. Pretty much a no-brainer installation, although I > haven't reached the first engine start page yet. > > > Am I missing something? What's the downside of having a sniffle valve? > > > My plane will be based at Inyokern in the middle of the Mojave Desert. > Summer heat will be an issue. Seemed to me, anything that helped prevent > vapor lock problems was ok. > > Paul Valovich > > RV-8A N192NM LuJaRo > > Wiring 99% done ' canopy is next > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:30 PM PST US From: "Ralph Cloud" Subject: RV-List: RE: RV9-List: Settting the correct Spacing (Gap) between VS Top Rib and Rudder Top Rib > > My question is - how do you set this Gap up ??? > You cannot adjust the top gap very much due to pre-punch holes which pretty must sets it for you. > It seems to me that the Rod End Bearings on the Rudder > Spar need to be screwed into the Rudder Spar the " The distance indicated for the rod ends will set the gap between the spar of the VS and the rudder, too little and the rudder will hit the VS skin at full deflection. Too much and it will put too much load on the VS spar and drag from too big of a gap. The final adjustment of the rod ends it to make sure they are in alignment with the hinge points. If they are not aligned properly you will have flexing of the spar, friction on the hinge line and other related issues. Ralph Livermore, Wings, fuse in box Do not archive > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:20 PM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Thank you, Jim, for making ME smile ;-) _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines Brian, Thanks for this information, I have been on your site many times over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have done to help me and other builders in this process. I still use the information you sent three years ago, regarding my question on how much we should torque down nuts and bolts. At one time, on your website, you had a parity regarding the government and ordering food from a fast food restaurant and how the person taking your order was reviewing your health history online, prior to letting you order. :-) I also enjoyed reading your hangar building process and dealing with all the bureaucrats who get their check on Friday and could careless if you ever get your building constructed. Thanks for making me smile. Keep working on your RV7 and I will continue to work on my RV9. If and when I order my motor and bigger items I will be checking your site for recommend vendors. Thanks. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:bmeyette@gmail.com"Brian Meyette Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with various vendors. The vast majority have been super to deal with, but here have been some with poor customer service. Fortunately, none has outright ripped me off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are mostly just poor customer service & bad attitudes. It isn=92t an all-encompassing list; just my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in building my plane. Brian HYPERLINK "http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/ ven dors.htm _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should not deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's. I'm wondering if this is possible? We work hard everyday in the shop and at our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are! Just my two cents. Jim RV9a N492RV (building) ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:khorton01@rogers.com"Kevin Horton Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: crooks at Performance Engines On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote: Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no joy. Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go :-). _________________ Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving this will cost him a bunch of business. One approach would be to create a web page that gave your side of the story. Post a link here. Post a link on the VAF WWW forum. If enough other people link to your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking of your page. Eventually it could start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance Engines that prospective customers start to see it. Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and the Aero News Network. Contact the Better Business Bureau. They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their searchable database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints. That will deter some other potential customers. Go to OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site. Keep this up long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada HYPERLINK "http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8"http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 4/29/2008 6:27 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Release Date: 4/30/2008 6:10 PM Checked by AVG. 5/8/2008 5:24 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 5/9/2008 12:38 PM "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navi gat or?RV-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion 7.5.524 / Checked by AVG. 5/9/2008 12:38 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:24 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: sniffle valve in RV 7A In a message dated 05/10/2008 10:52:54 AM Central Daylight Time, pvalovich@dcscorp.com writes: Seemed to me, anything that helped prevent vapor lock problems was ok. I really don't believe the sniffle valve has anything to do with vapor lock- it is only to allow raw fuel that can accumulate in the intake manifold between the fuel servo and the intake tubes to drain. By design in an injected engine, there SHOULD be no fuel in this area- fuel should only enter the intake airstream at the injector and pass immediately to the cylinder. In the AFP system I am familiar with, if the fuel system is pressurized by the boost pump and the engine is not cranking, some fuel will discharge from the injector nozzles and run down the intake tubes into the manifold. This is the reason for the sniffle valve- to allow this fuel to drain from this area where it is not meant to be. Is it "bad" to have some fuel pooling here? I don't know, but I doubt normal engine running airflow would cause much to be ingested into the engine. It would likely remove itself after "some" period of time by simple evaporation into the airstream. Some might look at the sniffle valve as a band-aid for less-than-ideal understanding & operation of the injection system, but in my experience if you leave the boost pump running for more than 5 or 10 seconds when the engine is not running or cranking (purge valve closed) there WILL be fuel running out the sniffle valve and deposited wherever gravity dictates. The AFP system is an excellent fuel delivery system in wide use, but just like that stick poking up between your legs, if not used as it was intended to be used, it can cause you some measure of grief. It appears Don checks this list occasionally, so if I am in error, PLEASE correct & elaborate. Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. 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