RV-List Digest Archive

Wed 05/21/08


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:26 AM - Re: Battery problem (Bill Judge)
     2. 06:34 AM - Re: Mike Terpstra (BRUCE GRAY)
     3. 06:35 AM - Re: Mike Terpstra (BRUCE GRAY)
     4. 07:28 AM - Re: Battery problem (William Dean)
     5. 07:41 AM - Battery Charge (Wheeler North)
     6. 08:11 AM - Re: Battery Discussion (Bob)
     7. 05:44 PM - Pre Flight Problems (rveighta)
     8. 06:20 PM - Re: Pre Flight Problems (Bob-tcw)
     9. 06:49 PM - Re: Pre Flight Problems (Kevin Horton)
    10. 06:54 PM - Re: Pre Flight Problems (RV6 Flyer)
    11. 08:01 PM - Re: Battery Discussion (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
    12. 09:08 PM - Battery, and radio problems update. (Charles Heathco)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:26:12 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Judge" <bjudge@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery problem
    Batteries that crank have completely different reliability tables than batteries that don't crank. If you are dependent on electrics this is a significant tid bit. I've been running 2 PC625 batteries, one starts the engine and the other is maintained through a 150 A diode and feeds the critical buss. With electronic ignition the PC 625 is plenty of power for starting my XP-360 and it is in most cases way too much battery for a backup. The advantage is the same as other people have been doing for some time, at some set time interval you dispose of the cranking battery, move the old emergency battery to its place and buy a new emergency battery. Some people do it at a year, I'm going to do it at 2 years since the battery has a 8-12 year design life span. either way you've got a fresh emergency battery that has never cranked the engine all the time. The PC625 is 16 AH, so multiply the number of amps you are dependent upon by the number hours before you can comfortably land with a reasonable safety factor and make sure that doesn't exceed 16. Since the battery didn't crank the engine the capacity should be nearly 100% at all times. I pretty much ignore the capacity of the starting battery for contingency scenarios. With internal battery backup for my GPS and EFIS I can stay upright in the clouds just running the electronic ignition off the battery for a greater time than my fuel endurance. Bill Judge N84WJ RV-8 240 hrs rv-8.blogspot.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:34:09 AM PST US
    From: BRUCE GRAY <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Mike Terpstra
    Yep! On the phone with him last night. Nice guy! My question to him was, Wh ere did you get those aluminum gear leg fairings? Grove! I'll be light enou gh that I don't need them yet. Thanks for the info guy's, Bruce Gray RV8 Fuse > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:51:30 -0700> From: rv8a2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike Terpstra> To: rv-list@matronics.com> > --> RV-L ist message posted by: scott bilinski <rv8a2001@yahoo.com>> > I found him o n line at Phonenumber.com. All the information is on line you just might ha ve to put a few of the pieces together.> > Scott > > > ----- Original Mess age ----> From: J. Mcculley <mcculleyja@starpower.net>> To: rv-list@matroni cs.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:50:05 AM> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike wer.net>> > Try www.411.com and input his address to get a phone number.> - --------------------------------------------------------------------> > BRU CE GRAY wrote:> > Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yer rington, NV. > > when he flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a > > couple weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything b ecause I now > > have some questions for him and don't know how so reach hi m. I do have > > an address but if someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or > > something that would be great.> > I'm working on an 8 my self and want to share some idea's.> > > > TIA,> > > > Bruce Gray> > RV8 Fuse> > Finishing, Wiring, & You name it!> -------------------------------- ==================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i=92m Initiative from Microsoft. ld


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:35:10 AM PST US
    From: BRUCE GRAY <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Mike Terpstra
    > Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:50:05 -0400> From: mcculleyja@starpower.net> To : rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mike Terpstra> > --> RV-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>> > Try www.411 .com and input his address to get a phone number.> ------------------------ ---------------------------------------------> > BRUCE GRAY wrote:> > Hope someone can help. I breifly met Mike Terpstra in Yerrington, NV. > > when h e flew in to meet with his painter, his RV8 is to be painted in a > > coupl e weeks. Anyway, I failed to get his # or anything because I now > > have s ome questions for him and don't know how so reach him. I do have > > an add ress but if someone out them knows him and I can get his e-mail or > > some thing that would be great.> > I'm working on an 8 myself and want to share some idea's.> > > > TIA,> > > > Bruce Gray> > RV8 Fuse> > Finishing, Wiring , & You name it!> --------------------------------------------------------- =======> > > I tried it and I recieved a hit on his name. It was him. Thanks for your help. Bruce Gray RV8 Fuse _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i=92m Initiative from Micr osoft.


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:28:21 AM PST US
    From: William Dean <billoves2fly@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery problem
    Thew battewry shopuld be used to start you ewngine and then your alternator should be powerful ewnough to run everything.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Messa ge ----=0AFrom: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>=0ATo: rv-list@matronics .com=0ASent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 12:34:49 AM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Batt ery problem=0A=0AOther batteries work too. =0A=0AThe problem with the odyss eys is that the biggest one which fits inside the battery box is only 18ah, and that is not big enough for my preference (electric ignition, fuel pump s, and flight instruments).=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0A=0A=0AO n Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com> wrote: =0A=0AOdysseys work...why anguish over it.- =0A-=0AChuck Jensen =0A---- -Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:o wner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Leonard=0ASent: Monday , May 19, 2008 3:29 PM=0ATo: rv-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: RV-List: Battery problem=0A=0A=0AWith my electrically dependant ignition and avionic s, I wanted to maximize the battery that will fit into the stock battery bo x.- This is what I came up with, after hearing Someone else had good luck with panasonic sealed lead batteries:=0A=0Ahttp://www.panasonic.com/indust rial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-R1233P.pdf=0A=0Ait is 33 Amp. hr, deep cycle, and can be mounted in any position like the oddessey.- In fact, the description seems very much like that of the oddessy batteries: =0A=0Ahttp://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html =0A=0AHave used mine for a year now with great success.- I paid about $11 0 for it.=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4V =========================0A =0A=0A


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:41:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Battery Charge
    From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth@sdccd.edu>
    This is not really an issue. My hangar to run-up ramp to runway is about 300 feet of taxiway. By the time I get done with the runup my load meter has dropped to 11 amps which is it's normal duty for everything turned on except the lights and flaps. And I have dual IFR and dual EFIS. Minimizing this with the 18AH I easily have an hour to get the ground. Wiring things as a load mater gives one a better picture of what is going on, but even better one can use two shunts and STDP switch on the feed to the amp gauge to have both a load meter and a charge indicator which gives you a complete picture of alternator output and battery charge rate by simply flipping the switch. <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussion: One thing I think is often missed is that one should always consider their battery as a "reservoir" of energy, only capable of offering what it has on board. If the alternator goes Tango Uniform shortly after departure, reservoir is depleted somewhat from bringing the mighty Lycoming to life. And if extended cranking prior to departure were the case, (cold temps, hot starts, blown procedure, whatever...) reservoir just might be quite a bit lower than typical. Methinks it wise to consider remaining battery available based on general condition, plus most recent consumption & time recharging in the event of a failure...


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:11:01 AM PST US
    From: Bob <panamared5@brier.net>
    Subject: Re: Battery Discussion
    > >Discussion: One thing I think is often missed is that one should >always consider their battery as a "reservoir" of energy, only >capable of offering what it has on board. If the alternator goes >Tango Uniform shortly after departure, reservoir is depleted >somewhat from bringing the mighty Lycoming to life. And if extended >cranking prior to departure were the case, (cold temps, hot starts, >blown procedure, whatever...) reservoir just might be quite a bit >lower than typical. Methinks it wise to consider remaining battery >available based on general condition, plus most recent consumption & >time recharging in the event of a failure... For the redundant types, why not just put on a second alternator, it is a lot lighter and my primary alternator was a lot cheaper than the battery ($70.00). If the alternator fails upon take off, maybe, it might just be possible to land where you took off from? Of if in route maybe you could land at the nearest airport? When I fly cross country I use airports as my waypoints. At least in the east, seldom do I have a waypoint that is more than 30 miles away! On the other hand many of my aerobatic friends fly with no alternator at all and battery only, one guy gets 30 starts before he has to recharge the battery. And yes they do fly cross country to get to aerobatic meets. Two seats for two pilots with two alternators and two batteries! Why not? Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:44:43 PM PST US
    From: rveighta <rveighta@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Pre Flight Problems
    Listers, I'm hoping to make the first flight of my RV-8 in the next few days, but I have a couple of problems I need to sort out first. - With the Batt & Avionics Master on, the manifold pressure needle pegs when the radio xmit button is pressed. Any ideas about what could be causing this? - With the Batt Master On, before engine start, the fuel pressure gauge is at zero; as soon as I hit the boost pump it climbs to around 30psi and stays there during engine run (with the boost pump turned off) What is normal fuel pressure for an engine with carburetor with the engine running? (Can't find this in my engine manual). Thanks, Walt Shipley RV-8a Flying, RV-8 soon to be flying Do not archive


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:20:55 PM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: Pre Flight Problems
    Walt, It sound like your MP gauge and or sender are sensitive to the radiated or conducted fields from your comm transmitter. Perhaps a poor ground connection on the sender or the gauge. Another possibility is a poor shield connection on the antenna wire between the radio and the antenna. I had significant trouble with some BNC connectors where the shield was making intermittent contact to the outer shell of the connector. This caused all kinds of problems. Regarding the fuel pressure, Lycoming fuel pumps on carb type engines generally run in the 4-6 psi range. 30psi sounds like the fuel pump is the type intended for fuel injected engines that run in that higher range. When you turn on the boost pump only before starting the engine to you get a reading closer to 5 psi? -Bob Newman rv-10 40176 Glastar N99RN www.tcwtech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: RV-List: Pre Flight Problems > > Listers, I'm hoping to make the first flight of my RV-8 in the next few > days, but I have a couple of problems I need to sort out first. > > - With the Batt & Avionics Master on, the manifold pressure needle pegs > when the radio xmit button is > pressed. Any ideas about what could be causing this? > > - With the Batt Master On, before engine start, the fuel pressure gauge > is at zero; as soon as I hit the > boost pump it climbs to around 30psi and stays there during engine run > (with the boost pump turned off) > What is normal fuel pressure for an engine with carburetor with the > engine running? (Can't find this > in my engine manual). > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley RV-8a Flying, RV-8 soon to be flying > > Do not archive > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:49:38 PM PST US
    From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Pre Flight Problems
    On 21 May 2008, at 20:40, rveighta wrote: > > Listers, I'm hoping to make the first flight of my RV-8 in the next > few days, but I have a couple of problems I need to sort out first. > > - With the Batt & Avionics Master on, the manifold pressure > needle pegs when the radio xmit button is > pressed. Any ideas about what could be causing this? > Which MP gauge do you have? This appears to be a relatively common complaint with Van's MP gauge. It seems that it picks up radio frequency energy. I haven't seen a solution, other than not looking at the MP gauge when transmitting. > - With the Batt Master On, before engine start, the fuel > pressure gauge is at zero; as soon as I hit the > boost pump it climbs to around 30psi and stays there during > engine run (with the boost pump turned off) > What is normal fuel pressure for an engine with carburetor > with the engine running? (Can't find this > in my engine manual). Where in the fuel system are you measuring fuel pressure? If you have an O-360, with a Facet (Marvel Schebler) MA-4 or HA-6 series carb, the fuel pressure at the inlet to the carb should be between 0.5 and 8 psi. This info is from engine Type Certificate Data Sheet E-286, available on the FAA web site. > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (FInal Assembly) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:54:01 PM PST US
    From: RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Pre Flight Problems
    Going from memory, the minimum fuel pressure for a carb is 0.5 psi. (1/2 psi) Depending on the transducer, it may have a difficult time ready as low as 0.5 psi. Not sure what fuel pressure instrument you have. Is it programmable and possible that it has an incorrect calibration factor? It is possible that you have a bad gauge or a bad transducer. You will need to know about the meter movement to trouble shoot it. Saw a Draganfly with VW engine that had the same problem with all its engine instruments as you do with MAP. The problem there was a BAD ground scheme. Ground loop and high resistance. The builder added a ground just for the transducer and his problem when away. Cannot say that is your problem but poor grounds are the source of a lot of instrument problems. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 2,096 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > From: rnewman@tcwtech.com > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre Flight Problems > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 21:17:12 -0400 > > > Walt, It sound like your MP gauge and or sender are sensitive to the > radiated or conducted fields from your comm transmitter. Perhaps a poor > ground connection on the sender or the gauge. Another possibility is a poor > shield connection on the antenna wire between the radio and the antenna. I > had significant trouble with some BNC connectors where the shield was making > intermittent contact to the outer shell of the connector. This caused all > kinds of problems. > > Regarding the fuel pressure, Lycoming fuel pumps on carb type > engines generally run in the 4-6 psi range. 30psi sounds like the fuel > pump is the type intended for fuel injected engines that run in that higher > range. > > When you turn on the boost pump only before starting the engine > to you get a reading closer to 5 psi? > > -Bob Newman > rv-10 40176 > Glastar N99RN > www.tcwtech.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rveighta" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 8:40 PM > Subject: RV-List: Pre Flight Problems > > >> >> Listers, I'm hoping to make the first flight of my RV-8 in the next few >> days, but I have a couple of problems I need to sort out first. >> >> - With the Batt & Avionics Master on, the manifold pressure needle pegs >> when the radio xmit button is >> pressed. Any ideas about what could be causing this? >> >> - With the Batt Master On, before engine start, the fuel pressure gauge >> is at zero; as soon as I hit the >> boost pump it climbs to around 30psi and stays there during engine run >> (with the boost pump turned off) >> What is normal fuel pressure for an engine with carburetor with the >> engine running? (Can't find this >> in my engine manual). >> >> Thanks, >> >> Walt Shipley RV-8a Flying, RV-8 soon to be flying >> >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft.


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:01:17 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Battery Discussion
    In a message dated 05/21/2008 10:13:39 AM Central Daylight Time, panamared5@brier.net writes: Two seats for two pilots with two alternators and two batteries! Why not? "Cause I'm a two-seat (typically one-pilot), one alternator, one battery kinda pilot: Limited budget. No IFR. No question more redundancy is better when mission dictates, but design for the mission. And always understand the physics of whatever configuration you aviate with... Good discussion- Mark **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:08:38 PM PST US
    From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco@cox.net>
    Subject: Battery, and radio problems update.
    Update, the new $80 batty realy kicks it over, like it, now have found out that radio, intercom and xponder all blown. I had a spare 76a bought on ebay 4 yrs ago we put it in and it works. KX125 had blown zener, dont know what problem is with xponder or icom yet. Hard to believe I totally ignore the red terminal and proceeded to hook up batty same as previous. Dum de dum dum----Dum. Charlie H




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