Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - OT: Interesting Airventure story (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 09:30 AM - Aero-net Reuse... (Matt Dralle)
3. 09:52 AM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (Bruce Gray)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (Sam Buchanan)
5. 11:28 AM - Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story (Dale Ensing)
6. 04:20 PM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (Richard Seiders)
7. 04:44 PM - Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story (RV6 Flyer)
8. 04:50 PM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (H.Ivan Haecker)
9. 05:30 PM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (John Cox)
10. 05:47 PM - Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story (Darrell Reiley)
11. 06:30 PM - Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story (John Fasching)
12. 07:15 PM - Fab Bypass Filter (Emrath)
13. 07:40 PM - Re: Fab Bypass Filter (Bobby Hester)
14. 08:22 PM - Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story (WILLIAM AGSTER)
15. 10:09 PM - Re: Aero-net Reuse... (H.Ivan Haecker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OT: Interesting Airventure story |
I saw an interesting story this morning on the local news. Apparently EAA is
planning a 10 year project to expand the Airventure grounds and build 2 new exhibit
buildings. The current plan looks to link the existing 4 buildings into
two pairs buy building a new two story building between them and updating the
existing buildings with the usual convention center amenities like bathrooms.
The city of OSH is talking about abandoning their existing convention center
downtown and teaming up with EAA to turn Airventure grounds into a new OSH convention
center.
I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too commercial
and has forgotten their constituency. I know this is the first I have heard
of this and a quick search on Google turns up nothing except a couple of the
local news stories. I would think that EAA would want to share such large initiatives
with the members before going full speed ahead.
I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, and OSH could certainly use the
additional resources year around, but I would like to know exactly how EAA feels
this will help experimental aviation advocacy and how they feel this will
help the organization. This isn't a cheap endeavor at 20 million and it's a lot
of our EAA dues going into it. My point to this is, if you are a member, let
EAA know how you feel about this being done whether it's good or bad.
http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
Hello Listers,
What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended" number of uses for them?
Thanks,
Matt
Message 3
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| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
Use once and throw away.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
Hello Listers,
What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended" number of uses for them?
Thanks,
Matt
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
> "recommended" number of uses for them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still serviceable.
Sam Buchanan
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story |
The AirVenture facilities have been used for other events for several years.
It helps pay for the facilities and makes use of assets which otherwise
would be used once a year for a
week or so.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: OT: Interesting Airventure story
> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> I saw an interesting story this morning on the local news. Apparently
> EAA is planning a 10 year project to expand the Airventure grounds and
> build 2 new exhibit buildings. The current plan looks to link the
> existing 4 buildings into two pairs buy building a new two story building
> between them and updating the existing buildings with the usual convention
> center amenities like bathrooms. The city of OSH is talking about
> abandoning their existing convention center downtown and teaming up with
> EAA to turn Airventure grounds into a new OSH convention center.
>
> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too
> commercial and has forgotten their constituency. I know this is the first
> I have heard of this and a quick search on Google turns up nothing except
> a couple of the local news stories. I would think that EAA would want to
> share such large initiatives with the members before going full speed
> ahead.
>
> I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, and OSH could certainly use
> the additional resources year around, but I would like to know exactly how
> EAA feels this will help experimental aviation advocacy and how they feel
> this will help the organization. This isn't a cheap endeavor at 20
> million and it's a lot of our EAA dues going into it. My point to this
> is, if you are a member, let EAA know how you feel about this being done
> whether it's good or bad.
>
> http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
Ditto, Sam.
Dick
At 01:39 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
>
>Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>Hello Listers,
>>What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>>little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off
>>the strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
>>"recommended" number of uses for them?
>>Thanks,
>>Matt
>
>
>Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut
>still has enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by
>hand it is still serviceable.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>--
>Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM
Message 7
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| Subject: | OT: Interesting Airventure story |
The Architect that is DONATING his time to EAA for the Master Plan built and flys
an RV-8.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,100 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
----------------------------------------
> From: rvbuilder@sausen.net
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:01:52 -0500
> Subject: RV-List: OT: Interesting Airventure story
>
>
> I saw an interesting story this morning on the local news. Apparently EAA
is planning a 10 year project to expand the Airventure grounds and build 2 new
exhibit buildings. The current plan looks to link the existing 4 buildings into
two pairs buy building a new two story building between them and updating
the existing buildings with the usual convention center amenities like bathrooms.
The city of OSH is talking about abandoning their existing convention center
downtown and teaming up with EAA to turn Airventure grounds into a new OSH
convention center.
>
> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too commercial
and has forgotten their constituency. I know this is the first I have heard
of this and a quick search on Google turns up nothing except a couple of the
local news stories. I would think that EAA would want to share such large
initiatives with the members before going full speed ahead.
>
> I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, and OSH could certainly use the
additional resources year around, but I would like to know exactly how EAA
feels this will help experimental aviation advocacy and how they feel this will
help the organization. This isn't a cheap endeavor at 20 million and it's a
lot of our EAA dues going into it. My point to this is, if you are a member,
let EAA know how you feel about this being done whether it's good or bad.
>
> http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a "recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Aero-net Reuse... |
Doing it and making it right are two entirely different questions.
Paragraph 7-64 f. addresses nylon nuts. Aviation safety can be
expensive. They progressively wear and fail to provide the purpose of a
nut, which is retention. I see it all the time. They most often do not
pass inspection criteria.
Common opinion is what Matt asked for so I will say many things in
Experimental are "penny wise and pound foolish". It is amazing the risk
one will take to save a few pennies. From a Quality Control perspective
it is "Use a new one every time" or check the torque...that is the
trouble. When penny pinching, they will often hold torque 1-3 times
then are trash. I often find nuts being used on experimentals that are
shot and reused by operators that don't have the baseline knowledge
found in the AC43.13.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H.Ivan Haecker
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe
that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | OT: Interesting Airventure story |
I personally think this could be a good thing...
Darrell
--- RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
>
> The Architect that is DONATING his time to EAA for
> the Master Plan built and flys an RV-8.
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 2,100 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: rvbuilder@sausen.net
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:01:52 -0500
> > Subject: RV-List: OT: Interesting Airventure story
> >
> (Michael Sausen)"
> >
> > I saw an interesting story this morning on the
> local news. Apparently EAA is planning a 10 year
> project to expand the Airventure grounds and build 2
> new exhibit buildings. The current plan looks to
> link the existing 4 buildings into two pairs buy
> building a new two story building between them and
> updating the existing buildings with the usual
> convention center amenities like bathrooms. The
> city of OSH is talking about abandoning their
> existing convention center downtown and teaming up
> with EAA to turn Airventure grounds into a new OSH
> convention center.
> >
> > I bring this up because a lot of people feel
> that EAA has become too commercial and has forgotten
> their constituency. I know this is the first I have
> heard of this and a quick search on Google turns up
> nothing except a couple of the local news stories.
> I would think that EAA would want to share such
> large initiatives with the members before going full
> speed ahead.
> >
> > I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea,
> and OSH could certainly use the additional resources
> year around, but I would like to know exactly how
> EAA feels this will help experimental aviation
> advocacy and how they feel this will help the
> organization. This isn't a cheap endeavor at 20
> million and it's a lot of our EAA dues going into
> it. My point to this is, if you are a member, let
> EAA know how you feel about this being done whether
> it's good or bad.
> >
> >
>
http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the im
> Initiative from Microsoft.
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story |
My new copy of Sport Aviation mentions this project and states pretty
clearly that no member dues would be used. I expect that the revenue from
renting the spaces would ultimately cover the costs. At least it appears
that's the plan.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fab Bypass Filter |
Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for
bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for
the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original method
utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by
the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up my
panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the
NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during NORMAL
operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fab Bypass Filter |
Marty, I did not put a bypass door in. I was told that the reason they
changed from the magnet was because it was opening during normal
operations. After giving it some thought I decided that I would put one
in at all. I am not going to be flying in conditions that will cause the
filter to ice over.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my flying RV7A web page:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm
Emrath wrote:
>
> Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for
> bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for
> the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original method
> utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by
> the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it
> according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up my
> panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking
> about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet
> version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass
> magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating
> conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the
> NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated
> force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during NORMAL
> operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this?
>
> Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: OT: Interesting Airventure story |
Got my new issue of Sport Aviation today. There is half page news blurb
about the improvements.
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrell Reiley<mailto:lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>
To: rv-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: OT: Interesting Airventure story
<lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com<mailto:lifeofreiley2003@yahoo.com>>
I personally think this could be a good thing...
Darrell
--- RV6 Flyer <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com<mailto:rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>>
wrote:
> <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com<mailto:rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>>
>
>
> The Architect that is DONATING his time to EAA for
> the "Master Plan" built and flys an RV-8.
>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 2,100 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: rvbuilder@sausen.net<mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>;
rv-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:01:52 -0500
> > Subject: RV-List: OT: Interesting Airventure story
> >
> (Michael Sausen)"
> >
> > I saw an interesting story this morning on the
> local news. Apparently EAA is planning a 10 year
> project to expand the Airventure grounds and build 2
> new exhibit buildings. The current plan looks to
> link the existing 4 buildings into two pairs buy
> building a new two story building between them and
> updating the existing buildings with the usual
> convention center amenities like bathrooms. The
> city of OSH is talking about abandoning their
> existing convention center downtown and teaming up
> with EAA to turn Airventure grounds into a new OSH
> convention center.
> >
> > I bring this up because a lot of people feel
> that EAA has become too commercial and has forgotten
> their constituency. I know this is the first I have
> heard of this and a quick search on Google turns up
> nothing except a couple of the local news stories.
> I would think that EAA would want to share such
> large initiatives with the members before going full
> speed ahead.
> >
> > I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea,
> and OSH could certainly use the additional resources
> year around, but I would like to know exactly how
> EAA feels this will help experimental aviation
> advocacy and how they feel this will help the
> organization. This isn't a cheap endeavor at 20
> million and it's a lot of our EAA dues going into
> it. My point to this is, if you are a member, let
> EAA know how you feel about this being done whether
> it's good or bad.
> >
> >
>
http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=66361
15&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1<http://www
myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version
=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1>
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i'm
> Initiative from Microsoft.
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
>
> Forums!
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Aero-net Reuse... |
John,
Would you care to provide the inspection criteria you allude to when you say
that you commonly find nuts on experimentals that are shot and should not be
reused? I find that 99% of the nuts used on my rv-4 are not covered in Table
7.2 of AC43.13-1B.
Sincerely,
H. Ivan Haecker -4 1458 hrs. S. Cen TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
Doing it and making it right are two entirely different questions.
Paragraph 7-64 f. addresses nylon nuts. Aviation safety can be
expensive. They progressively wear and fail to provide the purpose of a
nut, which is retention. I see it all the time. They most often do not
pass inspection criteria.
Common opinion is what Matt asked for so I will say many things in
Experimental are "penny wise and pound foolish". It is amazing the risk
one will take to save a few pennies. From a Quality Control perspective
it is "Use a new one every time" or check the torque...that is the
trouble. When penny pinching, they will often hold torque 1-3 times
then are trash. I often find nuts being used on experimentals that are
shot and reused by operators that don't have the baseline knowledge
found in the AC43.13.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H.Ivan Haecker
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
People with wood props commonly use the elastic stop nuts. I believe
that
most (like me) don't change them every time the bolts are retorqued. It
would sure be a lot of trouble and expense.
Ivan Haecker -4 (with wood prop!) 1458 hrs. S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero-net Reuse...
>
> Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Listers,
>>
>> What is the common opinion on the reuse of those aero-nuts with the
>> little nylon insert? Seems like once you use one and take it off the
>> strength of the nylon isn't as good any longer. Is there a
"recommended"
>> number of uses for them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> Matt, the rule-of-thumb I've always heard is as long as the nut still
has
> enough resistance that you can't thread it on the bolt by hand it is
still
> serviceable.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
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