Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: cowling filler (Brian Alley)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: Fab Bypass Filter (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
3. 05:10 AM - Cowling Filer (rveighta)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Fab Bypass Filter (Dale Ensing)
5. 11:22 AM - Brake Master Cylinder question (Berthet, Andre G)
6. 12:16 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (Ron Lee)
7. 01:07 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (Ron Lee)
8. 01:36 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (aberthet)
9. 03:02 PM - Re: Cowling Filler (David Cudney)
10. 04:01 PM - Re: Cowling Filler (Deems Davis)
11. 05:48 PM - Re: Cowling Filer (Kyle Boatright)
12. 10:48 PM - Re: cowling filler (tom sargent)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
Dave, I do composite fabrication for a living mostly on Lancairs. I've been using a product called Wonder-fil from Loehle Aero Coatings. It is applied with a paper towel, allowed to dry and then wipe the excess residue away. This leaves the pin holes and porosity completly filled. Spray urethane primer and the Wonder-fil will wick solvents from the urethane and fully bond. It is compatiable with any urethane paint system on the market but I've found Loehles paints to be superior to anything else I've tried and now its the only system I'll use. See www.loehle.com
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
www.carbonfibercomposites.net
304-562-6800 home
304-395-4932 cell
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
--- On Mon, 6/2/08, David Cudney <yenduc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: David Cudney <yenduc@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler
I want to fill the texture "pin holes" in my cowl before mounting the cam
locs to the firewall edges of the cowl. I tried Evercoat Feather Fill primer
and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the results
-- got nearly as many "pin holes" as before I made the applications. I'm thinking of trying micro balloons next.
What
has worked best for you guys out there????
Thanks
dave
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
Marty,
As a side note, while doing a conditional inspection on my RV-6A over
the weekend, I took the airbox apart to clean the air filter. There were
no signs of the trap door having opened.
One interesting issue with my implementation. When I installed my trap
door, I did not implement the change exactly per Van's instructions.
Van's wanted the trap door air supply to come from the lower cowl,
thereby bypassing the air filter AND the Carb heat air source. Because I
fly a lot of IFR, I felt that this was not a good blocked air filter
"Fix" implementation. I didn't like the fact that Van's fix method used
the lower cowl air supply, which does not replace Carb Heat in IFR icing
condition. With his "fix", there would never be a way to de-ice the
blocked air filter while in-flight, and, there was a high potential for
carb icing, causing a secondary engine failure mode while in weather
conditions that would have caused the air filter to become plugged.
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from
the airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the
lower level of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use
of carb heat if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary
carb ice failure mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was
blocking the filter.
I can only surmise that I have not seen any signs of the trap door
opening because there is never enough pressure differential across the
air filter to break the magnets bond. I would also surmise that this
pressure differential is normally considerably less than what might
exist with Van's implementation.
As for the magnet mounting, I didn't see any signs of the mount
moving, or the rivets wearing. It appeared to be in the same condition
as the day I installed it.
The RV-6A now has 868 hrs on it.......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
________________________________
From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Interesting..... thanks.
Marty =D2=D3=AC
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 6:12 AM
To: Emrath
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Marty,
I can't say for certain as I have no way to see it during normal
operations. But I can say that the air filter gets dirty over time. So
I'd say that it's staying closed...
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
________________________________
From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:07 PM
To: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR
Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter
Are you sure that the door stays shut during normal ops? Seems others
feel like it does not.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've epoxied the magnet into the aluminum
holder and that is epoxied and riveted to the bottom of the FAB, I
can't see how it is going to go anywhere. I am thinking of just taking
it off and patching the hole with some fiberglass cloth.
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:55 AM
To: emrath@comcast.net
Subject: Fab Bypass Filter
Marty,
I still have the magnet, but have secured it better with a pop
rivet....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A
Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification
for bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This
is for the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The
original method utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a
cable operated by the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the
FAB, I modified it according to the original method using the magnet.
Today, as I finish up my panel and get prepared to put the forward top
skin on, I began thinking about this once more. So, I'm wondering if
anyone still has the magnet version of this modification on their ship
and can tell me if the bypass magnet releases and lets air bypass the
filter under NORMAL operating conditions or not. I'm driving myself
crazy trying to determine what the NORMAL psi differential might be on
this door to compare the calculated force needed to open the door and
the amount the door will see during NORMAL operations. Anyone/everyone
have some thoughts on this? Marty in Brentwood, RV6A
Message 3
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Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my RV-8
cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth prime is sanded
off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use anything but this stuff
in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up.
Walt Shipley
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fab Bypass Filter |
MessageVery interesting Fred. Could you give us a little more info to get a
mental picture of the bypass around the filter? Did you create an addition
al air passage on the fiberglass airbox?
Dale
do not achieve
Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from th
e airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the lower l
evel of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use of carb he
at if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb ice failur
e mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the filter.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending)
RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Brake Master Cylinder question |
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
See if this is your system:
http://www.rvdar.com/Brakes/10-30_Master_Cylinder.pdf
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Berthet, Andre G
To: RV-List@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
I just replaced mine earlier this year. I used:
2-113
2-110
2-006
These are Ace Seal numbers
I used 2-218 Viton o-rings for the brake piston (for heat resistance).
Ron Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Berthet, Andre G
To: RV-List@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question
I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders
(Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four
O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the
exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does
anyone out there know? Thanks.
Andre
RV6
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Master Cylinder question |
Thank you very much Ron.
I'm replacing all my brake O-rings with Viton O-rings and refilling the system
with Aeroshell Fluid 31.
Andre
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185913#185913
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filler |
Walt and Deems:
What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a
primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if
so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any
compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or
polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having
it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems
down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me.
Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to
avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with
a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work
after such abuse?
Thanks for your help
dave
On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote:
>
> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime"
> on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of
> the smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I
> wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use,
> easy to clean up.
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filler |
David, I've used Smooth Prime on all of my fiberglass parts as the
primer (after filling the pin holes).
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/slides/DSC04322.html
I haven't painted the cowl yet, supposedly the painter is going to pick
up the project Jul 1 for paint, then final assembly and.........
(The credit card trick really doesn't take that long, when used w/
smoothprime and it insures that the pinholes are filled) . the credit
cards will definately NOT work after use so just send them to me and I
will 'dispose' of them "appropriately" O:-)
Deems Davis # 406
'Its all done....Its just not put together'
http://deemsrv10.com/
David Cudney wrote:
>
> Walt and Deems:
>
> What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a
> primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if
> so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any
> compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or
> polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having
> it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems
> down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me.
> Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to
> avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with
> a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work
> after such abuse?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> dave
>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote:
>
>>
>> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime"
>> on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the
>> smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I
>> wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy
>> to clean up.
>>
>> Walt Shipley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Filer |
I used Smooth Prime when I painted my airplane 8 years or so ago, and have
seen a few little bubbles develop under the paint over the years. This is
similar to what some of the composite guys who used Smooth Prime have
experienced. The latest word from the composite guys (I'm primarily going
from what I've read on a couple of canard forums) is that you need to apply
smooth prime and let it cure for significantly longer than the overnite cure
which was recommended back when I used it. Otherwise, you may see the
little bubbles I mentioned earlier.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: Cowling Filer
>
> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my
> RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth
> prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use
> anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up.
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: cowling filler |
I've had mixed results with UV smooth prime. Often it cures with tiny
bubbles in it or has just too much texture. By the time you sand all
the texture out, it's all gone. It worked well on my spinner but it
seemed like it was an awful lot of work. Recently I seemed to get
better results thinning it slightly - about 5% - with water. That may
suppress the bubbles and texturing a bit.
Polyfiber advised using a foam roller (their preferred method
apparently) with the smallest foam cell size possible. I think that did
help. It seems I have to put on about 6 very thin coats, then sand 95%
of it away. Yes, 6. That's what they told me. I do 3, sand it a bit
and then 3 more. And you must let it sit for a couple weeks before
painting to let the water get out of it.
Does any one have any advice on using this stuff? Am I doing it wrong?
Polyfiber doesn't seem to have all the recommended procedures in one
place. Some is on the can, some on their website and some you get by
calling up and asking. Frustrating. But I guess that's fiberglass for
you. It's expensive too.
--
Tom S. - RV-6A
stuck in fiberglass hell.
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