---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/02/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:07 AM - Re: cowling filler (Brian Alley) 2. 04:45 AM - Re: Fab Bypass Filter (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR) 3. 05:10 AM - Cowling Filer (rveighta) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Fab Bypass Filter (Dale Ensing) 5. 11:22 AM - Brake Master Cylinder question (Berthet, Andre G) 6. 12:16 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (Ron Lee) 7. 01:07 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (Ron Lee) 8. 01:36 PM - Re: Brake Master Cylinder question (aberthet) 9. 03:02 PM - Re: Cowling Filler (David Cudney) 10. 04:01 PM - Re: Cowling Filler (Deems Davis) 11. 05:48 PM - Re: Cowling Filer (Kyle Boatright) 12. 10:48 PM - Re: cowling filler (tom sargent) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:14 AM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler Dave, I do composite fabrication for a living mostly on Lancairs. I've been using a product called Wonder-fil from Loehle Aero Coatings. It is applied with a paper towel, allowed to dry and then wipe the excess residue away. This leaves the pin holes and porosity completly filled. Spray urethane primer and the Wonder-fil will wick solvents from the urethane and fully bond. It is compatiable with any urethane paint system on the market but I've found Loehles paints to be superior to anything else I've tried and now its the only system I'll use. See www.loehle.com BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES 101 Caroline Circle Hurricane, WV 25526 www.carbonfibercomposites.net 304-562-6800 home 304-395-4932 cell How are you going to win by a nose if you don&#39;t stick out your neck? --- On Mon, 6/2/08, David Cudney <yenduc@sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: David Cudney <yenduc@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler I want to fill the texture "pin holes"  in my cowl before mounting the cam locs to the firewall edges of the cowl.  I tried Evercoat Feather Fill primer and Evercoat Metal Glaze and was disappointed with the results -- got nearly as many "pin holes" as before I made the applications.  I'm thinking of trying micro balloons next.  What has worked best for you guys out there???? Thanks dave   ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:16 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RE: Fab Bypass Filter From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Marty, As a side note, while doing a conditional inspection on my RV-6A over the weekend, I took the airbox apart to clean the air filter. There were no signs of the trap door having opened. One interesting issue with my implementation. When I installed my trap door, I did not implement the change exactly per Van's instructions. Van's wanted the trap door air supply to come from the lower cowl, thereby bypassing the air filter AND the Carb heat air source. Because I fly a lot of IFR, I felt that this was not a good blocked air filter "Fix" implementation. I didn't like the fact that Van's fix method used the lower cowl air supply, which does not replace Carb Heat in IFR icing condition. With his "fix", there would never be a way to de-ice the blocked air filter while in-flight, and, there was a high potential for carb icing, causing a secondary engine failure mode while in weather conditions that would have caused the air filter to become plugged. Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from the airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the lower level of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use of carb heat if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb ice failure mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the filter. I can only surmise that I have not seen any signs of the trap door opening because there is never enough pressure differential across the air filter to break the magnets bond. I would also surmise that this pressure differential is normally considerably less than what might exist with Van's implementation. As for the magnet mounting, I didn't see any signs of the mount moving, or the rivets wearing. It appeared to be in the same condition as the day I installed it. The RV-6A now has 868 hrs on it....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending) RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine) ________________________________ From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter Interesting..... thanks. Marty =D2=D3=AC -----Original Message----- From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 6:12 AM To: Emrath Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter Marty, I can't say for certain as I have no way to see it during normal operations. But I can say that the air filter gets dirty over time. So I'd say that it's staying closed... Fred Stucklen RV-6A ________________________________ From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:07 PM To: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR Subject: RE: Fab Bypass Filter Are you sure that the door stays shut during normal ops? Seems others feel like it does not. Thanks for your thoughts. I've epoxied the magnet into the aluminum holder and that is epoxied and riveted to the bottom of the FAB, I can't see how it is going to go anywhere. I am thinking of just taking it off and patching the hole with some fiberglass cloth. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR [mailto:Fred.Stucklen@UTCPower.com] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:55 AM To: emrath@comcast.net Subject: Fab Bypass Filter Marty, I still have the magnet, but have secured it better with a pop rivet.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A Starting around late 2003, or so I think, Van's put out a modification for bypassing the filter in the FAB should the filter get clogged. This is for the vertical induction carb or FI-servo installations. The original method utilized a magnet and then a revised version utilized a cable operated by the pilot. At the time, when I first fabricated the FAB, I modified it according to the original method using the magnet. Today, as I finish up my panel and get prepared to put the forward top skin on, I began thinking about this once more. So, I'm wondering if anyone still has the magnet version of this modification on their ship and can tell me if the bypass magnet releases and lets air bypass the filter under NORMAL operating conditions or not. I'm driving myself crazy trying to determine what the NORMAL psi differential might be on this door to compare the calculated force needed to open the door and the amount the door will see during NORMAL operations. Anyone/everyone have some thoughts on this? Marty in Brentwood, RV6A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:50 AM PST US From: rveighta Subject: RV-List: Cowling Filer Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up. Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:15 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fab Bypass Filter MessageVery interesting Fred. Could you give us a little more info to get a mental picture of the bypass around the filter? Did you create an addition al air passage on the fiberglass airbox? Dale do not achieve Instead, I implemented my trap door to source it's air supply from th e airbox (yes, there is plenty of space between the filter and the lower l evel of the airbox..). This method allowed for the continued use of carb he at if/when the filter was blocked, preventing the secondary carb ice failur e mode, and possibly melting the ice/snow that was blocking the filter. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV (Sale Pending) RV-7A N924RV (ready for an engine) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:16 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question From: "Berthet, Andre G" I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders (Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does anyone out there know? Thanks. Andre RV6 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:33 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question See if this is your system: http://www.rvdar.com/Brakes/10-30_Master_Cylinder.pdf Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Berthet, Andre G To: RV-List@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders (Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does anyone out there know? Thanks. Andre RV6 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:18 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question I just replaced mine earlier this year. I used: 2-113 2-110 2-006 These are Ace Seal numbers I used 2-218 Viton o-rings for the brake piston (for heat resistance). Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Berthet, Andre G To: RV-List@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Brake Master Cylinder question I'm in the process of overhauling my Cleveland brake master cylinders (Model 10-30, old style with external spring). Each cylinder has four O-rings, 2x 2-110, 1x 2-113, and a smaller one which I'm not sure of the exact size. It seems to be a size 007, but I would like to be sure. Does anyone out there know? Thanks. Andre RV6 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:12 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Brake Master Cylinder question From: "aberthet" Thank you very much Ron. I'm replacing all my brake O-rings with Viton O-rings and refilling the system with Aeroshell Fluid 31. Andre Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185913#185913 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:26 PM PST US From: David Cudney Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling Filler Walt and Deems: What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me. Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work after such abuse? Thanks for your help dave On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote: > > Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" > on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of > the smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I > wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, > easy to clean up. > > Walt Shipley > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:12 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling Filler David, I've used Smooth Prime on all of my fiberglass parts as the primer (after filling the pin holes). http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/slides/DSC04322.html I haven't painted the cowl yet, supposedly the painter is going to pick up the project Jul 1 for paint, then final assembly and......... (The credit card trick really doesn't take that long, when used w/ smoothprime and it insures that the pinholes are filled) . the credit cards will definately NOT work after use so just send them to me and I will 'dispose' of them "appropriately" O:-) Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ David Cudney wrote: > > Walt and Deems: > > What did you guys use after filled the Smooth Prime? Did you use a > primer and if so what kind? Have you finish painted the cowl? And if > so what did you use? What I'm getting at is were there any > compatibility problems? I was hoping to use a two part polyurethane or > polyester primer and then fly the plane for a year or so before having > it professionally painted. I don't want any compatibility problems > down the line -- so far Smooth Prime sounds like the answer for me. > Clearly heavy spraying with Feather Fill did not work. I'm hoping to > avoid hours of mixing small batches of filler and scraping it in with > a credit card, blade, or squeegee --- will the credit cards still work > after such abuse? > > Thanks for your help > > dave > > On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:07 AM, rveighta wrote: > >> >> Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" >> on my RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the >> smooth prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I >> wouldn't use anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy >> to clean up. >> >> Walt Shipley >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:32 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling Filer I used Smooth Prime when I painted my airplane 8 years or so ago, and have seen a few little bubbles develop under the paint over the years. This is similar to what some of the composite guys who used Smooth Prime have experienced. The latest word from the composite guys (I'm primarily going from what I've read on a couple of canard forums) is that you need to apply smooth prime and let it cure for significantly longer than the overnite cure which was recommended back when I used it. Otherwise, you may see the little bubbles I mentioned earlier. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Cowling Filer > > Dave, like one of the other guys, I used water based "Smooth Prime" on my > RV-8 cowl. I just rolled it on then sanded it down. Most of the smooth > prime is sanded off, but the pinholes are filled in. I wouldn't use > anything but this stuff in the future. Easy to use, easy to clean up. > > Walt Shipley > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:21 PM PST US From: tom sargent Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling filler I've had mixed results with UV smooth prime. Often it cures with tiny bubbles in it or has just too much texture. By the time you sand all the texture out, it's all gone. It worked well on my spinner but it seemed like it was an awful lot of work. Recently I seemed to get better results thinning it slightly - about 5% - with water. That may suppress the bubbles and texturing a bit. Polyfiber advised using a foam roller (their preferred method apparently) with the smallest foam cell size possible. I think that did help. It seems I have to put on about 6 very thin coats, then sand 95% of it away. Yes, 6. That's what they told me. I do 3, sand it a bit and then 3 more. And you must let it sit for a couple weeks before painting to let the water get out of it. Does any one have any advice on using this stuff? Am I doing it wrong? Polyfiber doesn't seem to have all the recommended procedures in one place. Some is on the can, some on their website and some you get by calling up and asking. Frustrating. But I guess that's fiberglass for you. It's expensive too. -- Tom S. - RV-6A stuck in fiberglass hell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.