---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/18/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:35 AM - To rivet or not (Wheeler North) 2. 11:10 AM - Re: To rivet or not (Charles Kuss) 3. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? (RICHARD MILLER) 4. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:44 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: To rivet or not From: "Wheeler North" In general the philosphy I use is don't cut or rivet unless you absolutely cannot go any further without it. In this case could you use -6 screws and nuts temporarily. W OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x 12" triangles 'forward canopy decks'. These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide, up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide. I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet. But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy, & not interfere with anything else in the process. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:26 AM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: To rivet or not Charlie Wheeler's advice below is about the best you'll get. I've found #4 screws work great to temporarily hold in place of 3/32" rivets. Sometimes, clecos just won't do the job. I much prefer to keep everything temporarily fastened until I'm ready to pull an assembly apart to dimple, countersink, deburr, Alodine and prime it. Then it goes back together for riveting. You will save a lot of time if you can do fewer "large" assemblies, as opposed to more "small" sub-assemblies. Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Wheeler North wrote: > From: Wheeler North > Subject: RV-List: To rivet or not > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:29 AM > > > In general the philosphy I use is don't cut or rivet > unless you absolutely > cannot go any further without it. > > In this case could you use -6 screws and nuts temporarily. > > W > > > > OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for > the terrible > nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 > little 4" x 12" > triangles 'forward canopy decks'. > > These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top > longerons from about 2" > aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch > wide, up to the 'sub > panel' where they are about 4 " wide. > > I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & > forward skin yet. > But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons > interfere with fitting > the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether > I'm supposed to go ahead > with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy, > & not interfere > with anything else in the process. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:33 PM PST US From: RICHARD MILLER Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? cut the guys some slack you ought to try to work from boeing drawings when rebuilding large sections of fuselage.-and changing the main landing gear fitting on a dc-8 went bacisally, remove all interfering structure and ins tall per drawing xxx-xxx, reinstall disturbed structure. that was the instr uctions for 45 days of work for four men round the clock. rick --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Charlie England wrote: From: Charlie England Subject: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? Charlie England wrote: > --> RV7-List message posted by: Charlie England > > Those who have gone before, > > When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @ > instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to > the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions > say you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to > start fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I > either rivet the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out completely. > > The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't specify > actually riveting them in place. > Thanks, > > Charlie OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x 12" triangles 'forward canopy decks'. These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide, up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide. I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet. But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy, & not interfere with anything else in the process. Thanks, Charlie ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:11 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? Just kidding. Sort of. I know that we are really living in the 'best of times', but it still gets a little frustrating occasionally. Found 2 actual errors in the plans/instructions within minutes of each other recently. From the email I haven't yet sent to Van's, > dwg 47 drawn 1/22/01 sector c/d-9 top view of fuselage canopy frame: perspective callout (rt/aft) is rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise Instructions revised 6/2/04 fuselage section 8-20 under heading 'Installing the Front Deck (Tipup Canopy Only) 6th paragraph beginning 'Assemble the components...' 2nd sentence says 'Locate and drill the hat-section F-697 Channel to the *aft face* of the F-768A Center Subpanel.' (Drawings show the had section on the *forward* side of the F-768A subpanel.) > On a positive note, I actually got a Van's employee to admit that it would be useful to 1st time builders if the parts list was in some (almost any) order other than the one the warehouse employee uses to pull the parts. Charlie (Make no mistake, I DO love my RV.) RICHARD MILLER wrote: > > cut the guys some slack you ought to try to work from boeing drawings > when rebuilding large sections of fuselage. and changing the main > landing gear fitting on a dc-8 went bacisally, remove all interfering > structure and install per drawing xxx-xxx, reinstall disturbed > structure. that was the instructions for 45 days of work for four men > round the clock. > > rick > > --- On *Tue, 6/17/08, Charlie England //* wrote: > > From: Charlie England > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV7-List: -7 tipup F-721A: When?? > To: rv7-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 11:28 AM > > > > Charlie England wrote: > > --> RV7-List message posted by: Charlie England > > > > > Those who have gone before, > > > > When is it ok to rivet the F-721A's ('forward canopy deck', @ > > > instrument panel) to the longerons? I've fit all the stuff related to > > the F-768 sub panel components but I'm waiting (as the instructions > > say you can) to rivet that assembly into the fuselage. I'm ready to > > start fitting the canopy frame, but that ain't happening unless I > > either rivet the F-721A's to the longerons or take them out > completely. > > > > The earlier instructions describe 'fitting' them, but don't > specify > > actually riveting them in place. > > Thanks, > > > > Charlie > > OK, I know that Van's engineers won't apologize for the terrible > nomenclature, so I will. I'm sorry that Van named 2 little 4" x > 12" > triangles 'forward canopy decks'. > > These are the pieces that rivet to the top of the top longerons from > about 2" aft of the instrument panel, where they are only an inch wide, > up to the 'sub panel' where they are about 4 " wide. > > I have no intention of riveting the upper structure & forward skin yet. > But, clecos holding these F-721A's on the longerons interfere with > fitting the canopy frame. I'm trying to determine whether I'm supposed > > to go ahead with riveting these 2 small pieces so I can fit the canopy, > & not interfere with anything else in the process. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rv-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rv-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.