Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:06 AM - transition training in Michigan (Michael Seager)
2. 08:14 AM - RV8 gear (Frazier, Vincent A)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: Places to list RV8 kit for sale? (Mike Robertson)
4. 10:25 AM - Hydraulic fluid (jim-bean@att.net)
5. 12:52 PM - Re: FOR SALE: Isham RV Tool Kit with upgrades (Michael Karatsonyi)
6. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: SLICK MAGS (RICHARD MILLER)
7. 02:51 PM - Re: Hydraulic fluid (Kevin Horton)
8. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: SLICK MAGS (linn Walters)
9. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: SLICK MAGS (Sam Buchanan)
10. 04:50 PM - Re: Hydraulic fluid (t6pilot)
11. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: SLICK MAGS (Robin Marks)
12. 09:57 PM - Re: Hydraulic fluid (Ed Holyoke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | transition training in Michigan |
I will have the factory RV-7 in Three rivers Michigan for three days before
Oshkosh July 24 25 26. If you would like to take transition training you can
contact Bob Gearhart at 269 816 0163 cell or his home at 269 244 5102. Mike
Seager
Message 2
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SNIP Only Van knows for sure, but I'd bet that it was an engineering
decision, with money being a small contributor. The -8 is about a foot
longer than the -4 & stands a lot taller, so the gear legs would have
been a lot longer & much heavier to get the wheels in the right place
with the extra strength needed for the much higher gross weight of the
-8. Those gear towers do look like a real pain, though. They take up a
lot of room in the front cockpit & the guys I know with -8's all
complain about torquing the gear bolts. SNIP
This is just MHO, but the way around all of these problems is to simply
build a Rocket. The real question, for me anyway, is why didn't Van
tweak the Rocket design to fit his manufacturing expertise. Wow, what a
product that would have been or could be.
Before you flame me, know that I love the RVs. They are sweet, better
than anything out there... except the Rocket, which is pure,
unadulterated sex.
Vince
Message 3
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| Subject: | Places to list RV8 kit for sale? |
Barnstormers.com. I listed my wing and tail kit there and sold it within a
bout three weeks.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
Do Not Archive
From: will@flipsideaerobatics.comTo: rv8-list@matronics.com=3B rv-list@matr
onics.comSubject: RV-List: Places to list RV8 kit for sale?Date: Sat=2C 5 J
ul 2008 19:19:18 -0700
Can anyone guide me to the best place to advertise my tail and wing kit tha
t I=92m trying to sell? I=92m not sure if craigslist would hit the right pe
ople.
Will Allen
(425) 785-9922
will@flipsideaerobatics.com
www.flipsideaerobatics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.
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_WL_messenger_072008
Message 4
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Message 5
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| Subject: | FOR SALE: Isham RV Tool Kit with upgrades |
do you still have tools for sale? > Date: Sun=2C 6 Jul 2008 17:42:04 -0400>
From: dan@familybrown.org> To: rv-list@matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: FO
an Brown <dan@familybrown.org>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----> Hash:
SHA1> > For a variety of reasons=2C mostly relating to my being called to
active> duty with the Army=2C I won't be able to complete my planned RV-7A.
> Consequently=2C I'll need to sell my tools. This is the complete Isham> k
it pictured at:> > http://www.store-planetools.com/index.asp?PageAction=V
IEWPROD&ProdID=9> > This kit includes a pneumatic rivet squeezer and the
popular DRDT-2> dimpling tool.> > In addition=2C the following extras are i
ncluded:> > Screw-adjustable Rivet Squeezer Ram (a $70 value)> Avery Longer
on Yoke (a $150 value)> Avery Thin-nose (no-hole) Yoke (a $140 value)> Aver
y back-rivet plate (a $50 value)> Avery flush swivel rivet set (a $40 value
)> A couple of additional countersink cutters> Additional side-grip clecos
(about 10 extra of each=2C IIRC)> > That's $450 in upgrades=2C in addition
to the Isham set. All tools are in> excellent condition. The air drill is N
OT=2C repeat NOT included=3B> everything else is.> > This would cost nearly
$3000 for these tools ordered new. I'll take> $2500 OBO=2C plus shipping.
If you're local to Fayetteville=2C NC=2C you can> pick up. Contact me by e-
mail at dan@familybrown.org if interested.> Thanks for your interest!> > Th
e following tools are included:> > DRDT-2 Dimpler* (email for delivery date
on DRDT-2)> Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer (U.S.A.)*> 3=94 C-Yoke Installed on S
queezer (U.S.A.)*> Adjustable Set Holder for Pneumatic Squeezer (U.S.A.)*>
3X Rivet Gun with excellent teasing trigger*> EZ change spring for straight
rivet sets*> EZ Change Spring for flush sets (Snap-On Ind U.S.A.)*> Swivel
and Air Flow Restrictor with fine precision adjustment*> 1=94 Diameter Flu
sh Rivet Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 3/32=94 Cupped Rivet Set 3.5=94 (Snap-On U.
S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Cupped Rivet Set 3.5=94 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 3/16=94 Cupped Ri
vet Set 3.5=94 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Double Offset Rivet Set (Snap-On U
.S.A.)*> Back Rivet Set* (Special Small 1/2" Diameter for RV's)> Mini-Bucki
ng Bar=2C 1 lb. (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> Bulkhead Bucking Bar (Snap-On U.S.A.)*>
Footed Bucking Bar (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> Microstop Countersink Unit=2C needle-
bearing=2C non-chattering (U.S.A.)*> #40 Countersink Bit=2C 3/32=94 (Snap-O
n U.S.A.)*> #30 Countersink Bit=2C for 1/8=94 & #6 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*>
#8 Countersink Bit=2C #8 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> #10 Countersink Bit=2C #
10 Screw (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> Left Cut Snips=2C easy to use offset type (Klei
n Tools U.S.A.)*> Right Cut Snips=2C easy to use offset type (Klein Tools U
.S.A.)*> Straight Cut Snips=2C easy to use offset type (Klein Tools U.S.A.)
*> #40 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bits for 3/32=94 rivets=2C 8 each> #30 Aviatio
n Cobalt Drill Bits for 1/8=94 rivets=2C 6 each> #27 Aviation Cobalt Drill
Bit> #21 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit> #19 Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit> #12 Avia
tion Cobalt Drill Bit> 1/4" Aviation Cobalt Drill Bit> 12=94 Aviation Extra
Long #40 Drill Bit> 12=94 Aviation Extra Long #30 Drill Bit> Deburr Tool
=2C Speed Handle Type for small & large holes (U.S.A.)*> Cleco Pliers*> 4 C
leco Clamps=2C 1/2" (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> 4 Cleco Clamps=2C
1=94 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> Pop Rivet Tool=2C Professional
Heavy-Duty unit with Swivel Head*> 3/32" Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Sna
p-On U.S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 5/32
" Universal Cupped Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 3/16=94 Universal Cupped
Squeezer Set (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> Flat Squeezer Set 1/8=94 (Snap-On U.S.A.)*
> Flat Squeezer Set 1/4" (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> Flat Squeezer Set 3/8=94 (Snap-
On U.S.A.)*> Flat Squeezer Set 1/2" (Snap-On U.S.A.)*> 3/32=94 Rivet Dimple
Die (Springback U.S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Rivet Dimple Die (Springback U.S.A.)*> 5/
32" Dimple Die*> 3/16" - #10 Screw Dimple Die*> #8 Screw Dimple Die*> #6 Sc
rew Dimple Die*> Squeezer Set Organizer*> Squeezer Set Adjustment Washers *
> Stainless Steel Rule=2C 12=94*> Unibit 1/4" - 3/4" by 1/16ths=2C (Klein U
.S.A.)*> 3 Permanent Markers=2C Sharpie> 1/2 x 1 Reducers for 3M Wheel*> 32
5 Cleco Fasteners=2C 3/32=94 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> 175 Clec
o Fasteners=2C 1/8=94 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> 10 Cleco Fasten
ers=2C 5/32" (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> 10 Cleco Fasteners=2C 3/
16=94 (Calif Assoc Prod or Zephyr U.S.A.)*> Edge Deburring Tool=2C Hex Swiv
el type*> Fluting Pliers=2C Smooth Flute Nylon Jaws*> Fluting Pliers=2C Dee
p =93V=94 Nylon Jaws*> Rivet Cutter*> Air Tool Oil> Drill Stop Set of 4 wit
h Allen Wrench*> Rivet Set DOTS=2C Easier than Rivet Tape> 3/32=94 Pop Rive
t Dimple Die=2C Springback (U.S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Pop Rivet Dimple Die=2C Spring
back (U.S.A.)*> Hand Seamer (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*> 3/32=94 Drive Pin Punch
(Klein Tools U.S.A.)*> 1/8=94 Drive Pin Punch (Klein Tools U.S.A.)*> Scotch
Brite Hand Pads=2C 4 each> Rivet Length Gauge*> Rivet Shop Head Gauge=2C 4
-piece*> > - --> Dan Brown=2C KE6MKS=2C dan@familybrown.org> "Since all the
world is but a story=2C it were well for thee to buy the> more enduring st
ory rather than the story that is less enduring."> ~ -- The Judgment of St.
Colum Cille> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32
)> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org> > iD8DBQ
FIcTwsyQGUivXxtkERArQ5AKDXyHERioqiOx7Di9qmwK5lYRUxZwCgxTEO> 1xKO82rbsPh08my
====================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
The i=92m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world?
http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: SLICK MAGS |
hi all
the a saga continues,my favorite 206 now has had three inflight mag failure
s in the last 100hrs. and two more mags where condemded on the ground due t
o the service bulletin inspections.
-
the full story is as follows
with about 400 hrs on the mags owner complains about high egt on climb out.
the old shop fiddle with the fuel system on the io-520 for the next hundre
d hours and finally send everything out for rebuild. after a very large che
ck later and the annual the mags have 510 on them. shop advises that the ma
gs are due the 500 hr inspection but every thing is fine. owner leaves bay
area and loses both mags at bakersfield, note here is that the always passe
d mag check and -damn near did not get in. total time on mags 520. but th
ey had been the high egt problem for the last 100 hrs, as it went away with
new mags. next in flight r/h mag burns up distributor block at 84 hrs.-
next at-90 hr perform- sb inspection find both brushes bad and the bran
d new r/h mag has an inproperly built coil or casing will not pass clearanc
e specs. so in the last hundred hrs, less then one year of flight, five bad
mags. and you wonder why the owner is a tad bit miffed. not counting
the fuel system overhaul that he was billed for, and did not need. that ma
y be why i have to drive two hrs to work on this bird. by the way unison is
aware of thier quality control problems but have yet to admit to them. the
bad coils and or casings are reflected in sb3-08 look at the tab height in
spection. bad unison bad unison, you should all be spanked for this crap.
rick
--- On Thu, 7/3/08, glen matejcek <aerobubba@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: glen matejcek <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RE: SLICK MAGS
<aerobubba@earthlink.net>
HI All-
This slick mag debacle doesn't affect me directly, but something occurs to
me that might be of use. A couple of you have written very good and
insightful notes on this subject. Suppose you sent them to Aviation
Consumer, their sister mx rag, Flying, AOPA Pilot, Kitplanes, et al as Op
Ed pieces. That way, the issue will be out in the open pre-Oshkosh. Well,
as I type this, it occurs to me that none of them will get into print by
the time OSH comes around, except perhaps via Barnstormers and AvWeb. In
any case, you guys could document the situation in public prior to the
event. If anything happens enr to or fro the convention, your concerns
will have been registered before hand. Hopefully, this situation will
trigger a pre-emptive action on slick's part. If not, your efforts will no
doubt be of great assistance to anyone going to court.
Just a thought-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
============0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic fluid |
On 6-Jul-08, at 19:44 , jim-bean@att.net wrote:
> I was just about to open a can of brake fluid when I noticed it is
> MIL-H-5606G rather that the usual MIL-H-5606A. After Googling around
> it seems that they should be compatible. Does anyone have an opinion
> about whether mixing these two fluids is OK?
MIL-H-5606A is a very early version of the spec. MIL-H-5606G is a
much later version. There should be no problem mixing fluids made
with any versions of the MIL-H-5606 spec.
But, why not use MIL-PRF-83282 brake fluid? It can be mixed with MIL-
H-5606 fluid, but has the advantage of a much higher flash point. And
it isn't expensive either. I bought a quart can of Royco 782, a MIL-
PRF-83282 fluid, from Leavens Brothers in Toronto for $11.25.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: SLICK MAGS |
Now that's gotta be consumer abuse!!! Seriously, the only way Unison
will admit to a problem is if the FAA gets involved.
If the A&Ps file their discrepancy reports like they should, the FAA
takes notice. Filing a NASA form probably won't hurt either.
Linn
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
>
> hi all
>
> the a saga continues,my favorite 206 now has had three inflight mag
> failures in the last 100hrs. and two more mags where condemded on the
> ground due to the service bulletin inspections.
>
>
>
> the full story is as follows
>
> with about 400 hrs on the mags owner complains about high egt on climb
> out. the old shop fiddle with the fuel system on the io-520 for the
> next hundred hours and finally send everything out for rebuild. after
> a very large check later and the annual the mags have 510 on them.
> shop advises that the mags are due the 500 hr inspection but every
> thing is fine. owner leaves bay area and loses both mags at
> bakersfield, note here is that the always passed mag check and damn
> near did not get in. total time on mags 520. but they had been the
> high egt problem for the last 100 hrs, as it went away with new mags.
> next in flight r/h mag burns up distributor block at 84 hrs. next
> at 90 hr perform sb inspection find both brushes bad and the brand
> new r/h mag has an inproperly built coil or casing will not pass
> clearance specs. so in the last hundred hrs, less then one year of
> flight, five bad mags. and you wonder why the owner is a tad bit
> miffed. not counting the fuel system overhaul that he was billed for,
> and did not need. that may be why i have to drive two hrs to work on
> this bird. by the way unison is aware of thier quality control
> problems but have yet to admit to them. the bad coils and or casings
> are reflected in sb3-08 look at the tab height inspection. bad unison
> bad unison, you should all be spanked for this crap.
>
> rick
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/3/08, glen matejcek /<aerobubba@earthlink.net>/* wrote:
>
> From: glen matejcek <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RV-List: RE: SLICK MAGS
> To: "RV-List Digest Server" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 4:40 AM
>
> <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> HI All-
>
> This slick mag debacle doesn't affect me directly, but something occurs to
> me that might be of use. A couple of you have written very good and
> insightful notes on this subject. Suppose you sent them to Aviation
> Consumer, their sister mx rag, Flying, AOPA Pilot, Kitplanes, et al as Op
> Ed pieces. That way, the issue will be out in the open pre-Oshkosh. Well,
> as I type this, it occurs to me that none of them will get into print by
> the time OSH comes around, except perhaps via Barnstormers and AvWeb. In
> any case, you guys could document the situation in public prior to the
> event. If anything happens enr to or fro the convention, your concerns
> will have been registered before hand. Hopefully, this situation will
> trigger a pre-emptive action on slick's part. If not, your efforts will
no
> doubt be of great assistance to anyone going to court.
>
> Just a thought-
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: SLICK MAGS |
Rick.....I have to ask......why do you keep unloading all this stuff on
us?? I think you have made it clear you are disgusted with Slick. ;-)
It's not like we as RV builders can cure the problem that Unison has
with Slick mags......
Respectfully,
Sam Buchanan
================================
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
> hi all the a saga continues,my favorite 206 now has had three
> inflight mag failures in the last 100hrs. and two more mags where
> condemded on the ground due to the service bulletin inspections.
>
> the full story is as follows with about 400 hrs on the mags owner
> complains about high egt on climb out. the old shop fiddle with the
> fuel system on the io-520 for the next hundred hours and finally send
> everything out for rebuild. after a very large check later and the
> annual the mags have 510 on them. shop advises that the mags are due
> the 500 hr inspection but every thing is fine. owner leaves bay area
> and loses both mags at bakersfield, note here is that the always
> passed mag check and damn near did not get in. total time on mags
> 520. but they had been the high egt problem for the last 100 hrs, as
> it went away with new mags. next in flight r/h mag burns up
> distributor block at 84 hrs. next at 90 hr perform sb inspection
> find both brushes bad and the brand new r/h mag has an inproperly
> built coil or casing will not pass clearance specs. so in the last
> hundred hrs, less then one year of flight, five bad mags. and you
> wonder why the owner is a tad bit miffed. not counting the fuel
> system overhaul that he was billed for, and did not need. that may be
> why i have to drive two hrs to work on this bird. by the way unison
> is aware of thier quality control problems but have yet to admit to
> them. the bad coils and or casings are reflected in sb3-08 look at
> the tab height inspection. bad unison bad unison, you should all be
> spanked for this crap. rick
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic fluid |
Kevin:
MIL-H-5606G is the revision level of the MIL-H-5606 standard that particular
manufacturer is certifying to. No impact, meets the latest MIL-H5606
specification.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01@rogers.com>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hydraulic fluid
>
> On 6-Jul-08, at 19:44 , jim-bean@att.net wrote:
>
>> I was just about to open a can of brake fluid when I noticed it is
>> MIL-H-5606G rather that the usual MIL-H-5606A. After Googling around it
>> seems that they should be compatible. Does anyone have an opinion about
>> whether mixing these two fluids is OK?
>
> MIL-H-5606A is a very early version of the spec. MIL-H-5606G is a much
> later version. There should be no problem mixing fluids made with any
> versions of the MIL-H-5606 spec.
>
> But, why not use MIL-PRF-83282 brake fluid? It can be mixed with MIL-
> H-5606 fluid, but has the advantage of a much higher flash point. And it
> isn't expensive either. I bought a quart can of Royco 782, a MIL-
> PRF-83282 fluid, from Leavens Brothers in Toronto for $11.25.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
Message 11
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Based on what I read....people are going to die.
Instead of an "accident waiting to happen" it's an accident happening
right now.
Robin
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: SLICK MAGS
Rick.....I have to ask......why do you keep unloading all this stuff on
us?? I think you have made it clear you are disgusted with Slick. ;-)
It's not like we as RV builders can cure the problem that Unison has
with Slick mags......
Respectfully,
Sam Buchanan
================================
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
> hi all the a saga continues,my favorite 206 now has had three
> inflight mag failures in the last 100hrs. and two more mags where
> condemded on the ground due to the service bulletin inspections.
>
> the full story is as follows with about 400 hrs on the mags owner
> complains about high egt on climb out. the old shop fiddle with the
> fuel system on the io-520 for the next hundred hours and finally send
> everything out for rebuild. after a very large check later and the
> annual the mags have 510 on them. shop advises that the mags are due
> the 500 hr inspection but every thing is fine. owner leaves bay area
> and loses both mags at bakersfield, note here is that the always
> passed mag check and damn near did not get in. total time on mags
> 520. but they had been the high egt problem for the last 100 hrs, as
> it went away with new mags. next in flight r/h mag burns up
> distributor block at 84 hrs. next at 90 hr perform sb inspection
> find both brushes bad and the brand new r/h mag has an inproperly
> built coil or casing will not pass clearance specs. so in the last
> hundred hrs, less then one year of flight, five bad mags. and you
> wonder why the owner is a tad bit miffed. not counting the fuel
> system overhaul that he was billed for, and did not need. that may be
> why i have to drive two hrs to work on this bird. by the way unison
> is aware of thier quality control problems but have yet to admit to
> them. the bad coils and or casings are reflected in sb3-08 look at
> the tab height inspection. bad unison bad unison, you should all be
> spanked for this crap. rick
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic fluid |
Yeah, but if you mix the two, the flashpoint advantage is mostly lost.
The brake system should be drained and refilled with the high test
fluid. There's no need to flush it. One should probably replace the
O-rings in the calipers with Viton ones (# 218-V 1 1/4" X 1 1/2") as
they can handle much higher temperatures than the stock Nitrile O-rings.
You can get a lifetime supply of O-rings for about 10 bucks at any seal
dealer. I got the brown ones so that they don't get mixed up with
Nitrile later.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> On 6-Jul-08, at 19:44 , jim-bean@att.net wrote:
>
>> I was just about to open a can of brake fluid when I noticed it is
>> MIL-H-5606G rather that the usual MIL-H-5606A. After Googling around
>> it seems that they should be compatible. Does anyone have an opinion
>> about whether mixing these two fluids is OK?
>
> MIL-H-5606A is a very early version of the spec. MIL-H-5606G is a
> much later version. There should be no problem mixing fluids made
> with any versions of the MIL-H-5606 spec.
>
> But, why not use MIL-PRF-83282 brake fluid? It can be mixed with
> MIL-H-5606 fluid, but has the advantage of a much higher flash point.
> And it isn't expensive either. I bought a quart can of Royco 782, a
> MIL-PRF-83282 fluid, from Leavens Brothers in Toronto for $11.25.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
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