Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:15 AM - Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Bruce Gray)
3. 07:01 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Kelly McMullen)
5. 07:38 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Bruce Gray)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph Finch)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Engine 'first' start ()
10. 10:55 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Dale Ensing)
11. 11:10 AM - Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... (cecilth@juno.com)
12. 12:03 PM - Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... (Matt Dralle)
13. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
14. 12:32 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
15. 12:32 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (linn Walters)
16. 12:54 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Sam Buchanan)
17. 01:18 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen)
18. 05:10 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Dale Ensing)
19. 05:46 PM - 91 octane, time to be heard! (Roger Lee)
20. 05:52 PM - Fire Extinguisher was Re: Engine 'first' start (Sherman Butler)
21. 06:35 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (wskimike)
22. 06:42 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Sam Buchanan)
23. 06:49 PM - For sale New Garmin 396 (eddyfernan@aol.com)
24. 07:07 PM - Re: Tank Testing (wskimike)
25. 07:31 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Dale Walter)
26. 07:40 PM - Re: For sale New Garmin 396 (Charles Kuss)
27. 07:42 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Charles Kuss)
28. 09:45 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Vanremog@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
Folks,
My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is
time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three
blade prop.
I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have
incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
Alt air - off
Prop - high RPM
Fuel valve - select tank
Purge valve - run
Master - on
Fuel boost pump - on
Throttle - full open
Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
Throttle - Idle
Mixture - lean
Fuel boost pump - off
Throttle to 1/4
Clear prop
Ignition switch - START
Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
Ignition switch - both when engine fires
Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order
to get consistent starts?
Thanks for any input,
Ralph
Message 2
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank the
engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first start.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
Folks,
My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
three blade prop.
I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I
have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
Alt air - off
Prop - high RPM
Fuel valve - select tank
Purge valve - run
Master - on
Fuel boost pump - on
Throttle - full open
Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
Throttle - Idle
Mixture - lean
Fuel boost pump - off
Throttle to 1/4
Clear prop
Ignition switch - START
Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
Ignition switch - both when engine fires
Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in
order to get consistent starts?
Thanks for any input,
Ralph
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there were
no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'.......
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank the
>engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first start.
>
>Bruce
>www.Glasair.org
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM
>To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
>Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>
>Folks,
>
>My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
>is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>
>I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
>three blade prop.
>
>I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I
>have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
>
>Alt air - off
>Prop - high RPM
>Fuel valve - select tank
>Purge valve - run
>Master - on
>Fuel boost pump - on
>Throttle - full open
>Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
>Throttle - Idle
>Mixture - lean
>Fuel boost pump - off
>Throttle to 1/4
>Clear prop
>Ignition switch - START
>Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
>Ignition switch - both when engine fires
>
>Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in
>order to get consistent starts?
>
>Thanks for any input,
>Ralph
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Not sure if you mean for all cold starts, or just your very first start.
If it is for routine cold starts, you could eliminate some steps. Unless
the AFP operates very different from the RSA, throttle position has
nothing to do with priming. Just running rich mixture until fuel flow
probably isn't enough prime. I use 5 seconds or more of boost pump on my
IO-360 powered Mooney.
One other hint. Let the engine sit for 30-60 seconds after you prime it
before you crank. Lets the liquid fuel become vapor.
I don't know, but suspect the purge valve does nothing on a cold engine.
I think you will find that you can eliminate some of your items, as they
will always be in the correct position from shutdown.
Hot starts.........that's another discussion.
If it is your very first start...as suggested, leave 4 plugs out, and
crank engine until you have good oil pressure. Then put plugs back in,
and do normal cold start.
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is
time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>
> I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three
blade prop.
>
> I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I
have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
>
> Alt air - off
> Prop - high RPM
> Fuel valve - select tank
> Purge valve - run
> Master - on
> Fuel boost pump - on
> Throttle - full open
> Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
> Throttle - Idle
> Mixture - lean
> Fuel boost pump - off
> Throttle to 1/4
> Clear prop
> Ignition switch - START
> Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
> Ignition switch - both when engine fires
>
> Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order
to get consistent starts?
>
> Thanks for any input,
> Ralph
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
You want to do it no longer than 30 minutes before your first ever engine
start.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there
were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'.......
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank
>the engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first
>start.
>
>Bruce
>www.Glasair.org
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM
>To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
>Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>
>Folks,
>
>My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I
>think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>
>I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a
>MT three blade prop.
>
>I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures
>and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
>
>Alt air - off
>Prop - high RPM
>Fuel valve - select tank
>Purge valve - run
>Master - on
>Fuel boost pump - on
>Throttle - full open
>Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
>Throttle - Idle
>Mixture - lean
>Fuel boost pump - off
>Throttle to 1/4
>Clear prop
>Ignition switch - START
>Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
>Ignition switch - both when engine fires
>
>Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions
>in order to get consistent starts?
>
>Thanks for any input,
>Ralph
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
Good point - I'll do it again right before I do the first start.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 10:37 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>You want to do it no longer than 30 minutes before your first ever engine
>start.
>
>Bruce
>www.Glasair.org
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:58 AM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>
>Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there
>were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'.......
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Bruce Gray <Bruce@glasair.org>
>>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>>
>>
>>No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank
>>the engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first
>>start.
>>
>>Bruce
>>www.Glasair.org
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM
>>To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
>>Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>>
>>
>>
>>Folks,
>>
>>My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I
>>think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>>
>>I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a
>>MT three blade prop.
>>
>>I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures
>>and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:
>>
>>Alt air - off
>>Prop - high RPM
>>Fuel valve - select tank
>>Purge valve - run
>>Master - on
>>Fuel boost pump - on
>>Throttle - full open
>>Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage
>>Throttle - Idle
>>Mixture - lean
>>Fuel boost pump - off
>>Throttle to 1/4
>>Clear prop
>>Ignition switch - START
>>Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking
>>Ignition switch - both when engine fires
>>
>>Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions
>>in order to get consistent starts?
>>
>>Thanks for any input,
>>Ralph
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in,
and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running.
Ralph Finch
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
Folks,
My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
three blade prop.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Engine 'first' start |
Ralph,
You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm only
planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't
be much ground running time right from the get go.
I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can
get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the
fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the
boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running.
More thoughts.....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in,
>and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running.
>
>Ralph Finch
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM
>To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
>Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>Folks,
>
>My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
>is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>
>I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
>three blade prop.
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) made a presentation about pre first flight inspections
at OSH. He disconnected the fuel line and measured how much fuel he could
get in x amount of minutes. He stated that is how he ensured that there wasn't
fuel starvation on the first flight and to ensure there wasn't any debris
in the fuel line.
>
> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2008/08/06 Wed AM 11:35:53 EST
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
> Ralph,
>
> You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm
only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly -
won't be much ground running time right from the get go.
>
> I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I
can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the
fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running
the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running.
>
> More thoughts.....
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
> >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM
> >To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
> >
> >
> >After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in,
> >and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running.
> >
> >Ralph Finch
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM
> >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
> >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
> >
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
> >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
> >
> >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
> >three blade prop.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire extinguisher
handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch the observer and
have hand signals for emergency shut down.
Dale
----- >
> More thoughts.....
>
> Ralph
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... |
I would print on it in small print:
"If you noticed this little booboo, keep it to yourself"
Cecil
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:55:33 -0700 Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
writes:
>
> Listers,
>
> Well, the trim tab came out perfect and I'm really pleased with the
> mating to the Elevator. That being said, I'm less than pleased with
>
> the for/aft alignment of the Trim Tab. The Trim Tab hangs past the
> Elevator trailing edge by about 1/8" of an inch. It is 1/8" along
> the whole distance of the Trim Tab. In looking at the cause, it
> appears that the skins are all cut such that you are suppose to use
> the roundy part of the hinge and not the square cutout when aligning
>
> the hinge for drilling. This would account for 1/16" on each side
> and would add up to the 1/8" overhang I'm seeing. Grrrrrr....
>
> What should I do, fellow builders? I could drill out all the rivets
>
> and use a new hinge, and I'm certainly not opposed to that. But am
> I
> making too big a deal out of the whole thing? Or is everyone gonna
> look at it forever and go, "Hey, how come your trim take is too
> long?" :-(
>
> Bummed Out in Livermore
>
> Matt
> RV-8 #82880
____________________________________________________________
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... |
Hey guys, thanks for all the great feedback. I think I'll just set it aside for
now and fry some bigger fish, and then come back to it later and see how I feel
about it. Jerry's comment about the tab never being aligned very often sitting
on the ramp made some good sense. Then again, on picture day.... :-)
Thanks!
Matt
--------
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196962#196962
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Thanks for the fuel line tip.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: rv@thelefflers.com
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 1:35 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) made a presentation about pre first flight inspections
at OSH. He disconnected the fuel line and measured how much fuel he could
get in x amount of minutes. He stated that is how he ensured that there wasn't
fuel starvation on the first flight and to ensure there wasn't any debris
in the fuel line.
>
>>
>> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>> Date: 2008/08/06 Wed AM 11:35:53 EST
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>>
>>
>> Ralph,
>>
>> You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm
only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly
- won't be much ground running time right from the get go.
>>
>> I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I
can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that
the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running
the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running.
>>
>> More thoughts.....
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Ralph Finch <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
>> >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM
>> >To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>> >
>> >
>> >After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in,
>> >and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running.
>> >
>> >Ralph Finch
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
>> >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM
>> >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list
>> >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>> >
>> >
>> >Folks,
>> >
>> >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it
>> >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....
>> >
>> >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT
>> >three blade prop.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want to see anyway...don't
get to the airport much....Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 1:52 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire extinguisher
>handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch the observer and
>have hand signals for emergency shut down.
>Dale
>----- >
>> More thoughts.....
>>
>> Ralph
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Get one of the 'halon' fire extinguishers. Failing that, make sure that
the powder in the one you get from Home Depot isn't corrosive to
aluminum. I'm being told that the newer fire extinguisher powder isn't
as corrosive as the old stuff .... but that just means your pride and
joy will take longer to become a corroded POS. Per my hangar agreement
I have to buy a 20BC (or better) extinguisher. All I can find is powder
types .... and they already know when the fire is put out, there'll a
full extinguisher with paint burns on it. Your insurance won't pay for
the corroded POS in the long term.
Linn
Oh yeah .... jumping up and down holding the fire extinguisher doesn't
count as a hand signal!!!
do not archive
Dale Ensing wrote:
>
> During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire
> extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch
> the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down.
> Dale
> ----- >
>> More thoughts.....
>>
>> Ralph
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want
> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!
Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't
be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the
risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out
to the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood.
It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-)
Best wishes for a great phase One. :-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Thanks Sam!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 3:49 PM
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
>
>Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want
>> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!
>
>Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't
>be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the
>risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out
>to the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood.
>
>It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-)
>
>Best wishes for a great phase One. :-)
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start even
with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical!
Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport, another
builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start. There was
smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start. Every metal
connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When I asked him
where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground strap?" All of his
electrical testing before engine start didn't pull enough current to show
the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the starter motor turning the
engine was another story.
Dale
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
>
> Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want
>> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!
>
> Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't
> be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the
> risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out to
> the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood.
>
> It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-)
>
> Best wishes for a great phase One. :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | 91 octane, time to be heard! |
If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going.
This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the other
at some point.
If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's time
to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are good because
someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change and made it better
for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and just go along then
we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a minute and email these
two people and any other fuel administrator in other companies. I will post on
as many aviation websites as possible and I would you all to pick a side and
stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we might effect change. I for one
don't want to roll over. You are about to read a bulletin about the use of Chevron
ground fuel verses aviation fuel. Then I have a response.
Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and be heard.
Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation wide voice.
Send your emails to:
LIMG(at)chevron.com
kayalbitz(at)chevron.com
or any other fuel company administrator.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197012#197012
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2008_04_2008_04_bulletin_2008_04_chevron_position_autogas_for_aviation_use_527.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ryan_memo_185.doc
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
In flight use a Halon extinguisher clean agent and breathable for the most
part.- In the hangar I have a CO2 that provides multiple times of use for
small fires (over primed truck engine) and is a clean agent.- I also hav
e a ABC dry chemical (ammonium mono phosphate that can create phosphoric ac
id in a fire) as a last response.- The dry chemical was free, but if I wa
s buying one I would get a BC (sodium bicarbonate)
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Wings
N497GS reserved
Carlsbad, NM
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start
Get one of the 'halon' fire extinguishers. Failing that, make sure
that
the powder in the one you get from Home Depot isn't corrosive to
aluminum. I'm being told that the newer fire extinguisher powder isn't
as corrosive as the old stuff .... but that just means your pride and
joy will take longer to become a corroded POS. Per my hangar agreement
I have to buy a 20BC (or better) extinguisher. All I can find is powder
types .... and they already know when the fire is put out, there'll a
full extinguisher with paint burns on it. Your insurance won't pay for
the corroded POS in the long term.
Linn
Oh yeah .... jumping up and down holding the fire extinguisher doesn't
count as a hand signal!!!
do not archive
Dale Ensing wrote:
<densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire
> extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch
> the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down.
> Dale
> ----- >
>> More thoughts.....
>>
>> Ralph
>
>
=0A=0A=0A
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fuel Question |
It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your tank where fuel
normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical attitude. Check the
connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine leaked. Also, check
the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope this helps.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question
>
> I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8 which occurs only
> during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending and on the ground,
> there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire fuel system (wing tanks,
> vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump connections, gascolator, fuel
> pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump connections, etc).
> I've found a few very small "weeping" connections which have been
> corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have also checked for blue
> streaks throughout the plane and don't see any.
>
> Any help with this annoying problem will sure be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine 'first' start |
Dale Ensing wrote:
>
> Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start
> even with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical!
>
> Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport,
> another builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start.
> There was smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start.
> Every metal connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When
> I asked him where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground
> strap?" All of his electrical testing before engine start didn't pull
> enough current to show the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the
> starter motor turning the engine was another story.
> Dale
Yes.......but if we do the thorough pre-start inspection that is
mandatory...... :-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | For sale New Garmin 396 |
For sale new Garmin 396 new in the box (never opened) with all the standard accesorries
and XM weather antenna. Aircraft Spruce price is $1795. Will sell for
$1600 plus shipping from 33029 (Ft. Lauderdale, FL) to you. If you are in the
market for this unit this will save you $200.? Please call me as I will be on
the road Eddy Fernandez (954) 914-5579 cell. Pay pal or cashiers check only.
Eddy Fernandez
RV9A 300hrs tt
RV7A Finishing kit
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Testing |
It is a standard practice in aviation to pressurize bladder and sealed
tanks. Vans even tells you how to do it before installing the tanks. If you
are really concerned, just disconnect the vent line from the wing root and
put a balloon on the vent line fitting and screw the pump fitting into the
low point drain like Vans tells you. Then, pump it slowly to prevent too
much pressure.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy E. Cone" <tcone1@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing
>
> STOP!!!! Do not hook your tank up to ANY pressure source...I don't care
> what kind of regulator you have. Fuel tanks and compressed gasses do not
> go together.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wskimike" <wskimike@mchsi.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing
>
>
>>
>> You better have a quality regulator to ensure you only put one PSI in the
>> tank. You can damage the tank with three PSI.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alden D. Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle@royell.org>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing
>>
>>
>>> <dvanwinkle@royell.org>
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> The differential is 2 ft 3 inches which equates to approx one PSI. This
>>> is
>>> what I used for my RV-9A tanks and worked very well. Even with one PSI,
>>> you
>>> will see a small amount of skin deflection between the tank ribs while
>>> pressurized. Also be aware that the differential is very sensitive to
>>> temperature changes, even if you have no leaks.
>>>
>>> Dean Van Winkle
>>> dvanwinkle@royell.org
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jerry Cochran" <jerry2dt@aol.com>
>>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:52 AM
>>> Subject: RV-List: Tank Testing
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had to remove both fuel senders and reseal so am testing for
>>>> integrity.
>>> The instructions for testing with a manometer are saying either 2 to 3
>>> inches diff in water levels or 2 feet 3 inches, can't tell which. Before
>>> bothering Van's and displaying my ignorance anyone here know the answer
>>> for
>>> sure? I'd rather not blow my tanks apart, ya know...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all,
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> Oh, BTW... I would never, repeat NEVER use the supplied rubber gaskets
>>> again.
>>>> I could not figure out why I'd never get a drip on the hangar floor but
>>> mysterious fuel streaks down the belly. My hangar mate pointed out that
>>> at
>>> speed the fuel vents can slightly pressurize the tanks. Fact or fiction?
>>> You
>>> decide. I took senders out, slathered proseal and replaced. Hopefully
>>> fixed.
>>>> Edit/Delete Message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196662#196662
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Another Fuel Question |
That may be true, but also consider that airflow can be very strong, and can
vary noticeably in different attitudes and speeds. The path of airflow can
change; a small tornado surrounds our fuselage. Check the shape and
condition of the vent openings, too. You can close one tank including
sealing the vent and do a flight test. Then test the other tank. Double
check to be sure one tank is feeding proper before flight, and as always
when testing and being distracted, be prepared for an emergency. Are there
any signs of fuel stains anywhere in the cockpit, checking the entire route
of all fuel line and vent line with a bright light?
Good luck!
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wskimike
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question
It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your tank where fuel
normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical attitude. Check the
connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine leaked. Also, check
the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope this helps.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question
>
> I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8 which occurs only
> during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending and on the ground,
> there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire fuel system (wing tanks,
> vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump connections, gascolator, fuel
> pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump connections, etc).
> I've found a few very small "weeping" connections which have been
> corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have also checked for blue
> streaks throughout the plane and don't see any.
>
> Any help with this annoying problem will sure be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Walt Shipley
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: For sale New Garmin 396 |
Eddy,
-How come you are building a 7A? I saw you on the front page of the Sun S
entinel when I came back from Buffalo last month. Congratulations.
Charlie
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, eddyfernan@aol.com <eddyfernan@aol.com> wrote:
From: eddyfernan@aol.com <eddyfernan@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: For sale New Garmin 396
For sale new Garmin 396 new in the box (never opened) with all the standard
accesorries and XM weather antenna. Aircraft Spruce price is $1795. Will s
ell for $1600 plus shipping from 33029 (Ft. Lauderdale, FL) to you. If you
are in the market for this unit this will save you $200.- Please call me
as I will be on the road Eddy Fernandez (954) 914-5579 cell. Pay pal or cas
hiers check only.
Eddy Fernandez
RV9A 300hrs tt
RV7A Finishing kit
It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make
the grade on AOL Shopping.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fuel Question |
Walt,
If you find that the leak is at the bulkhead connector for the capacitance fuel
senders (if you have those) be sure to purchase genuine, made in the USA AMPHANOL
brand for the replacement. Vans supplies "made in the orient" units, which
are not as well designed.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, wskimike <wskimike@mchsi.com> wrote:
> From: wskimike <wskimike@mchsi.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 9:34 PM
> <wskimike@mchsi.com>
>
> It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your
> tank where fuel
> normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical
> attitude. Check the
> connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine
> leaked. Also, check
> the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope
> this helps.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rveighta" <rveighta@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question
>
>
> <rveighta@earthlink.net>
> >
> > I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8
> which occurs only
> > during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending
> and on the ground,
> > there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire
> fuel system (wing tanks,
> > vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump
> connections, gascolator, fuel
> > pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump
> connections, etc).
> > I've found a few very small "weeping"
> connections which have been
> > corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have
> also checked for blue
> > streaks throughout the plane and don't see any.
> >
> > Any help with this annoying problem will sure be
> appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Walt Shipley
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fuel Question |
In a message dated 8/6/2008 7:43:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
chaskuss@yahoo.com writes:
If you find that the leak is at the bulkhead connector for the capacitance
fuel senders (if you have those) be sure to purchase genuine, made in the USA
AMPHANOL brand for the replacement.
Actually the name of the company is Amphenol.
N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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