---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/06/08: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:15 AM - Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 2. 06:41 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Bruce Gray) 3. 07:01 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 4. 07:07 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Kelly McMullen) 5. 07:38 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Bruce Gray) 6. 08:04 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 7. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph Finch) 8. 09:36 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 9. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Engine 'first' start () 10. 10:55 AM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Dale Ensing) 11. 11:10 AM - Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... (cecilth@juno.com) 12. 12:03 PM - Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... (Matt Dralle) 13. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 14. 12:32 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 15. 12:32 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (linn Walters) 16. 12:54 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Sam Buchanan) 17. 01:18 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Ralph E. Capen) 18. 05:10 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Dale Ensing) 19. 05:46 PM - 91 octane, time to be heard! (Roger Lee) 20. 05:52 PM - Fire Extinguisher was Re: Engine 'first' start (Sherman Butler) 21. 06:35 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (wskimike) 22. 06:42 PM - Re: Engine 'first' start (Sam Buchanan) 23. 06:49 PM - For sale New Garmin 396 (eddyfernan@aol.com) 24. 07:07 PM - Re: Tank Testing (wskimike) 25. 07:31 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Dale Walter) 26. 07:40 PM - Re: For sale New Garmin 396 (Charles Kuss) 27. 07:42 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Charles Kuss) 28. 09:45 PM - Re: Another Fuel Question (Vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:43 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Folks, My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop. I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: Alt air - off Prop - high RPM Fuel valve - select tank Purge valve - run Master - on Fuel boost pump - on Throttle - full open Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage Throttle - Idle Mixture - lean Fuel boost pump - off Throttle to 1/4 Clear prop Ignition switch - START Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking Ignition switch - both when engine fires Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order to get consistent starts? Thanks for any input, Ralph ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:00 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank the engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first start. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Folks, My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop. I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: Alt air - off Prop - high RPM Fuel valve - select tank Purge valve - run Master - on Fuel boost pump - on Throttle - full open Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage Throttle - Idle Mixture - lean Fuel boost pump - off Throttle to 1/4 Clear prop Ignition switch - START Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking Ignition switch - both when engine fires Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order to get consistent starts? Thanks for any input, Ralph ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:53 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'....... -----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Gray >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank the >engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first start. > >Bruce >www.Glasair.org > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > >Folks, > >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... > >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT >three blade prop. > >I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I >have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: > >Alt air - off >Prop - high RPM >Fuel valve - select tank >Purge valve - run >Master - on >Fuel boost pump - on >Throttle - full open >Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage >Throttle - Idle >Mixture - lean >Fuel boost pump - off >Throttle to 1/4 >Clear prop >Ignition switch - START >Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking >Ignition switch - both when engine fires > >Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in >order to get consistent starts? > >Thanks for any input, >Ralph > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:43 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Not sure if you mean for all cold starts, or just your very first start. If it is for routine cold starts, you could eliminate some steps. Unless the AFP operates very different from the RSA, throttle position has nothing to do with priming. Just running rich mixture until fuel flow probably isn't enough prime. I use 5 seconds or more of boost pump on my IO-360 powered Mooney. One other hint. Let the engine sit for 30-60 seconds after you prime it before you crank. Lets the liquid fuel become vapor. I don't know, but suspect the purge valve does nothing on a cold engine. I think you will find that you can eliminate some of your items, as they will always be in the correct position from shutdown. Hot starts.........that's another discussion. If it is your very first start...as suggested, leave 4 plugs out, and crank engine until you have good oil pressure. Then put plugs back in, and do normal cold start. Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > Folks, > > My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... > > I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop. > > I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: > > Alt air - off > Prop - high RPM > Fuel valve - select tank > Purge valve - run > Master - on > Fuel boost pump - on > Throttle - full open > Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage > Throttle - Idle > Mixture - lean > Fuel boost pump - off > Throttle to 1/4 > Clear prop > Ignition switch - START > Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking > Ignition switch - both when engine fires > > Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order to get consistent starts? > > Thanks for any input, > Ralph > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:40 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start You want to do it no longer than 30 minutes before your first ever engine start. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:58 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'....... -----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Gray >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank >the engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first >start. > >Bruce >www.Glasair.org > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > >Folks, > >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I >think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... > >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a >MT three blade prop. > >I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures >and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: > >Alt air - off >Prop - high RPM >Fuel valve - select tank >Purge valve - run >Master - on >Fuel boost pump - on >Throttle - full open >Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage >Throttle - Idle >Mixture - lean >Fuel boost pump - off >Throttle to 1/4 >Clear prop >Ignition switch - START >Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking >Ignition switch - both when engine fires > >Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions >in order to get consistent starts? > >Thanks for any input, >Ralph > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:18 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Good point - I'll do it again right before I do the first start..... -----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Gray >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 10:37 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >You want to do it no longer than 30 minutes before your first ever engine >start. > >Bruce >www.Glasair.org > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:58 AM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > >Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there >were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'....... > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Bruce Gray >>Sent: Aug 6, 2008 9:40 AM >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start >> >> >>No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank >>the engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first >>start. >> >>Bruce >>www.Glasair.org >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:14 AM >>To: rv-list; lycoming engine list >>Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start >> >> >> >>Folks, >> >>My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I >>think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... >> >>I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a >>MT three blade prop. >> >>I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures >>and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist: >> >>Alt air - off >>Prop - high RPM >>Fuel valve - select tank >>Purge valve - run >>Master - on >>Fuel boost pump - on >>Throttle - full open >>Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage >>Throttle - Idle >>Mixture - lean >>Fuel boost pump - off >>Throttle to 1/4 >>Clear prop >>Ignition switch - START >>Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking >>Ignition switch - both when engine fires >> >>Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions >>in order to get consistent starts? >> >>Thanks for any input, >>Ralph >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:36 AM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in, and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running. Ralph Finch -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Folks, My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:52 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Ralph, You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't be much ground running time right from the get go. I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running. More thoughts..... Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Ralph Finch >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in, >and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running. > >Ralph Finch > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >Folks, > >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... > >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT >three blade prop. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:40 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) made a presentation about pre first flight inspections at OSH. He disconnected the fuel line and measured how much fuel he could get in x amount of minutes. He stated that is how he ensured that there wasn't fuel starvation on the first flight and to ensure there wasn't any debris in the fuel line. > > From: "Ralph E. Capen" > Date: 2008/08/06 Wed AM 11:35:53 EST > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > Ralph, > > You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't be much ground running time right from the get go. > > I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running. > > More thoughts..... > > Ralph > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Ralph Finch > >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM > >To: rv-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > > > >After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in, > >and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running. > > > >Ralph Finch > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM > >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list > >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > > > > >Folks, > > > >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it > >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... > > > >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT > >three blade prop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:12 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down. Dale ----- > > More thoughts..... > > Ralph ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... From: cecilth@juno.com I would print on it in small print: "If you noticed this little booboo, keep it to yourself" Cecil On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:55:33 -0700 Matt Dralle writes: > > Listers, > > Well, the trim tab came out perfect and I'm really pleased with the > mating to the Elevator. That being said, I'm less than pleased with > > the for/aft alignment of the Trim Tab. The Trim Tab hangs past the > Elevator trailing edge by about 1/8" of an inch. It is 1/8" along > the whole distance of the Trim Tab. In looking at the cause, it > appears that the skins are all cut such that you are suppose to use > the roundy part of the hinge and not the square cutout when aligning > > the hinge for drilling. This would account for 1/16" on each side > and would add up to the 1/8" overhang I'm seeing. Grrrrrr.... > > What should I do, fellow builders? I could drill out all the rivets > > and use a new hinge, and I'm certainly not opposed to that. But am > I > making too big a deal out of the whole thing? Or is everyone gonna > look at it forever and go, "Hey, how come your trim take is too > long?" :-( > > Bummed Out in Livermore > > Matt > RV-8 #82880 ____________________________________________________________ Best selection of Bibles. Click Now http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nhMWQH4MJ1dXNUgbcTX8Qflt9QlstR3WjitJs3HghlcQRPV/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:38 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: BooHoo - Trim Tab Alignment... From: "Matt Dralle" Hey guys, thanks for all the great feedback. I think I'll just set it aside for now and fry some bigger fish, and then come back to it later and see how I feel about it. Jerry's comment about the tab never being aligned very often sitting on the ramp made some good sense. Then again, on picture day.... :-) Thanks! Matt -------- Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196962#196962 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:47 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Thanks for the fuel line tip..... -----Original Message----- >From: rv@thelefflers.com >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 1:35 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) made a presentation about pre first flight inspections at OSH. He disconnected the fuel line and measured how much fuel he could get in x amount of minutes. He stated that is how he ensured that there wasn't fuel starvation on the first flight and to ensure there wasn't any debris in the fuel line. > >> >> From: "Ralph E. Capen" >> Date: 2008/08/06 Wed AM 11:35:53 EST >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start >> >> >> Ralph, >> >> You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running. I'm only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't be much ground running time right from the get go. >> >> I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running. >> >> More thoughts..... >> >> Ralph >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Ralph Finch >> >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 12:11 PM >> >To: rv-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine 'first' start >> > >> > >> >After it starts, what's your intention? I assume it needs to be broken in, >> >and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running. >> > >> >Ralph Finch >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:14 AM >> >To: rv-list; lycoming engine list >> >Subject: RV-List: Engine 'first' start >> > >> > >> >Folks, >> > >> >My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it >> >is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire..... >> > >> >I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT >> >three blade prop. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:58 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks! -----Original Message----- >From: Dale Ensing >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 1:52 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire extinguisher >handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch the observer and >have hand signals for emergency shut down. >Dale >----- > >> More thoughts..... >> >> Ralph > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:58 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Get one of the 'halon' fire extinguishers. Failing that, make sure that the powder in the one you get from Home Depot isn't corrosive to aluminum. I'm being told that the newer fire extinguisher powder isn't as corrosive as the old stuff .... but that just means your pride and joy will take longer to become a corroded POS. Per my hangar agreement I have to buy a 20BC (or better) extinguisher. All I can find is powder types .... and they already know when the fire is put out, there'll a full extinguisher with paint burns on it. Your insurance won't pay for the corroded POS in the long term. Linn Oh yeah .... jumping up and down holding the fire extinguisher doesn't count as a hand signal!!! do not archive Dale Ensing wrote: > > During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire > extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch > the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down. > Dale > ----- > >> More thoughts..... >> >> Ralph > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:30 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want > to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks! Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out to the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood. It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-) Best wishes for a great phase One. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:15 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Thanks Sam! -----Original Message----- >From: Sam Buchanan >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 3:49 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start > > >Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want >> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks! > >Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't >be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the >risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out >to the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood. > >It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-) > >Best wishes for a great phase One. :-) > >Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:12 PM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start even with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical! Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport, another builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start. There was smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start. Every metal connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When I asked him where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground strap?" All of his electrical testing before engine start didn't pull enough current to show the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the starter motor turning the engine was another story. Dale From: "Sam Buchanan" > Ralph E. Capen wrote: >> >> >> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want >> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks! > > Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't > be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the > risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out to > the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood. > > It's not like the engine is going to explode. :-) > > Best wishes for a great phase One. :-) > > Sam Buchanan > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:01 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: 91 octane, time to be heard! From: "Roger Lee" If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going. This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the other at some point. If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's time to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are good because someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change and made it better for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and just go along then we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a minute and email these two people and any other fuel administrator in other companies. I will post on as many aviation websites as possible and I would you all to pick a side and stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we might effect change. I for one don't want to roll over. You are about to read a bulletin about the use of Chevron ground fuel verses aviation fuel. Then I have a response. Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and be heard. Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation wide voice. Send your emails to: LIMG(at)chevron.com kayalbitz(at)chevron.com or any other fuel company administrator. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197012#197012 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2008_04_2008_04_bulletin_2008_04_chevron_position_autogas_for_aviation_use_527.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/ryan_memo_185.doc ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:53 PM PST US From: Sherman Butler Subject: Fire Extinguisher was Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start In flight use a Halon extinguisher clean agent and breathable for the most part.- In the hangar I have a CO2 that provides multiple times of use for small fires (over primed truck engine) and is a clean agent.- I also hav e a ABC dry chemical (ammonium mono phosphate that can create phosphoric ac id in a fire) as a last response.- The dry chemical was free, but if I wa s buying one I would get a BC (sodium bicarbonate) Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings N497GS reserved Carlsbad, NM --- On Wed, 8/6/08, linn Walters wrote: From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Get one of the 'halon' fire extinguishers. Failing that, make sure that the powder in the one you get from Home Depot isn't corrosive to aluminum. I'm being told that the newer fire extinguisher powder isn't as corrosive as the old stuff .... but that just means your pride and joy will take longer to become a corroded POS. Per my hangar agreement I have to buy a 20BC (or better) extinguisher. All I can find is powder types .... and they already know when the fire is put out, there'll a full extinguisher with paint burns on it. Your insurance won't pay for the corroded POS in the long term. Linn Oh yeah .... jumping up and down holding the fire extinguisher doesn't count as a hand signal!!! do not archive Dale Ensing wrote: > > During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire > extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch > the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down. > Dale > ----- > >> More thoughts..... >> >> Ralph > > =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:12 PM PST US From: "wskimike" Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your tank where fuel normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical attitude. Check the connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine leaked. Also, check the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope this helps. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question > > I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8 which occurs only > during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending and on the ground, > there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire fuel system (wing tanks, > vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump connections, gascolator, fuel > pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump connections, etc). > I've found a few very small "weeping" connections which have been > corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have also checked for blue > streaks throughout the plane and don't see any. > > Any help with this annoying problem will sure be appreciated. > > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:48 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine 'first' start Dale Ensing wrote: > > Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start > even with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical! > > Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport, > another builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start. > There was smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start. > Every metal connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When > I asked him where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground > strap?" All of his electrical testing before engine start didn't pull > enough current to show the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the > starter motor turning the engine was another story. > Dale Yes.......but if we do the thorough pre-start inspection that is mandatory...... :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:22 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: For sale New Garmin 396 From: eddyfernan@aol.com For sale new Garmin 396 new in the box (never opened) with all the standard accesorries and XM weather antenna. Aircraft Spruce price is $1795. Will sell for $1600 plus shipping from 33029 (Ft. Lauderdale, FL) to you. If you are in the market for this unit this will save you $200.? Please call me as I will be on the road Eddy Fernandez (954) 914-5579 cell. Pay pal or cashiers check only. Eddy Fernandez RV9A 300hrs tt RV7A Finishing kit ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:15 PM PST US From: "wskimike" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing It is a standard practice in aviation to pressurize bladder and sealed tanks. Vans even tells you how to do it before installing the tanks. If you are really concerned, just disconnect the vent line from the wing root and put a balloon on the vent line fitting and screw the pump fitting into the low point drain like Vans tells you. Then, pump it slowly to prevent too much pressure. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy E. Cone" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing > > STOP!!!! Do not hook your tank up to ANY pressure source...I don't care > what kind of regulator you have. Fuel tanks and compressed gasses do not > go together. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wskimike" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing > > >> >> You better have a quality regulator to ensure you only put one PSI in the >> tank. You can damage the tank with three PSI. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alden D. Van Winkle" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:52 PM >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Testing >> >> >>> >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> The differential is 2 ft 3 inches which equates to approx one PSI. This >>> is >>> what I used for my RV-9A tanks and worked very well. Even with one PSI, >>> you >>> will see a small amount of skin deflection between the tank ribs while >>> pressurized. Also be aware that the differential is very sensitive to >>> temperature changes, even if you have no leaks. >>> >>> Dean Van Winkle >>> dvanwinkle@royell.org >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerry Cochran" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:52 AM >>> Subject: RV-List: Tank Testing >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I had to remove both fuel senders and reseal so am testing for >>>> integrity. >>> The instructions for testing with a manometer are saying either 2 to 3 >>> inches diff in water levels or 2 feet 3 inches, can't tell which. Before >>> bothering Van's and displaying my ignorance anyone here know the answer >>> for >>> sure? I'd rather not blow my tanks apart, ya know... >>>> >>>> Thanks all, >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> Oh, BTW... I would never, repeat NEVER use the supplied rubber gaskets >>> again. >>>> I could not figure out why I'd never get a drip on the hangar floor but >>> mysterious fuel streaks down the belly. My hangar mate pointed out that >>> at >>> speed the fuel vents can slightly pressurize the tanks. Fact or fiction? >>> You >>> decide. I took senders out, slathered proseal and replaced. Hopefully >>> fixed. >>>> Edit/Delete Message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196662#196662 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:01 PM PST US From: "Dale Walter" Subject: RE: RV-List: Another Fuel Question That may be true, but also consider that airflow can be very strong, and can vary noticeably in different attitudes and speeds. The path of airflow can change; a small tornado surrounds our fuselage. Check the shape and condition of the vent openings, too. You can close one tank including sealing the vent and do a flight test. Then test the other tank. Double check to be sure one tank is feeding proper before flight, and as always when testing and being distracted, be prepared for an emergency. Are there any signs of fuel stains anywhere in the cockpit, checking the entire route of all fuel line and vent line with a bright light? Good luck! Dale -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wskimike Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your tank where fuel normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical attitude. Check the connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine leaked. Also, check the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope this helps. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question > > I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8 which occurs only > during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending and on the ground, > there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire fuel system (wing tanks, > vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump connections, gascolator, fuel > pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump connections, etc). > I've found a few very small "weeping" connections which have been > corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have also checked for blue > streaks throughout the plane and don't see any. > > Any help with this annoying problem will sure be appreciated. > > > Thanks, > > Walt Shipley > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:02 PM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: For sale New Garmin 396 Eddy, -How come you are building a 7A? I saw you on the front page of the Sun S entinel when I came back from Buffalo last month. Congratulations. Charlie --- On Wed, 8/6/08, eddyfernan@aol.com wrote: From: eddyfernan@aol.com Subject: RV-List: For sale New Garmin 396 For sale new Garmin 396 new in the box (never opened) with all the standard accesorries and XM weather antenna. Aircraft Spruce price is $1795. Will s ell for $1600 plus shipping from 33029 (Ft. Lauderdale, FL) to you. If you are in the market for this unit this will save you $200.- Please call me as I will be on the road Eddy Fernandez (954) 914-5579 cell. Pay pal or cas hiers check only. Eddy Fernandez RV9A 300hrs tt RV7A Finishing kit It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:28 PM PST US From: Charles Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question Walt, If you find that the leak is at the bulkhead connector for the capacitance fuel senders (if you have those) be sure to purchase genuine, made in the USA AMPHANOL brand for the replacement. Vans supplies "made in the orient" units, which are not as well designed. Charlie Kuss --- On Wed, 8/6/08, wskimike wrote: > From: wskimike > Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 9:34 PM > > > It is obviously leaking from the top aft portion of your > tank where fuel > normally doesn't get unless you are in a vertical > attitude. Check the > connector if you have a capacitance fuel indicator. Mine > leaked. Also, check > the fuel vent connection at the root of the tank. I hope > this helps. > > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rveighta" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 7:50 PM > Subject: RV-List: Another Fuel Question > > > > > > > I have a strong fuel odor in the cabin of my new RV8 > which occurs only > > during climb attitude. Straight and level, descending > and on the ground, > > there's no gas odor. I've gone over the entire > fuel system (wing tanks, > > vent system, fuel selector valve, boost pump > connections, gascolator, fuel > > pressure transducer, carb connections, mechanical pump > connections, etc). > > I've found a few very small "weeping" > connections which have been > > corrected, but the fuel smell is still there. I have > also checked for blue > > streaks throughout the plane and don't see any. > > > > Any help with this annoying problem will sure be > appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Walt Shipley > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:29 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Another Fuel Question In a message dated 8/6/2008 7:43:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chaskuss@yahoo.com writes: If you find that the leak is at the bulkhead connector for the capacitance fuel senders (if you have those) be sure to purchase genuine, made in the USA AMPHANOL brand for the replacement. Actually the name of the company is Amphenol. N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 895hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. 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