Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:57 AM - Re: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft (linn Walters)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: RV Builder shops? (Jerry Calvert)
3. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! (Rick Rathbun)
4. 01:42 PM - RV-8A Dwg 4PP (Elevator Dwg) (Garey Wittich)
5. 07:27 PM - Elevator Fiberglass Tip - Now What...? (Matt Dralle)
6. 08:13 PM - Re: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft (Patrick Kelley)
7. 08:41 PM - Re: Elevator Fiberglass Tip - Now What...? (Michael T. Ice)
8. 08:42 PM - Re: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft (Patrick Kelley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft |
This is a good example of why you don't want to register your RV as an
RV-x ..... instead make the designation as nebulous as you can. We used
to have a 'sticker fee' in FL, but it was a hit-or-miss thing where the
tax man would drive through the airport recording N#s ..... and sending
a bill to the ones that didn't have the sticker. My planes have been
hangared so didn't have the problem. That law is either off the books
or not being enforced at all. The tax guy here will look at what your
airplane is selling for in TAP and use that as a figure. If you're
proactive and provide the tax that you compute ..... he's usually happy.
Linn
do not archive
Paul Besing wrote:
> From the Arizona registration publication:
> "The Aeronautics Division annually determines the value of aircraft
> for tax purposes using industry sources and guides. The value
> assessed is based on the average low wholesale bluebook value for the
> make, model, and year of the aircraft. No consideration is given to
> condition, equipment, or purchase price."
>
> The other post about $25 is ONLY for storage or under repair.
>
> Keep in mind, this is an ANNUAL fee. So yes, an $80k airplane costs
> $400/year to register. Once you register, then the tax man will also
> come talk to you to see if you paid sales tax of whatever percent....I
> have yet to have the bill, but I am about to register so we will see.
> I imagine it's 5-7% sales tax too..
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-4 N73DD
> Arizona
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tim Bryan <n616tb@btsapps.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 4:11:47 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
>
> >>>You also have a sticker you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005
> of the 'assessed' value of the aircraft. <<<
>
>
>
> OMG! 80k * .005 = $ 400.00 Who gets to determine the value? I live
> in Texas for nearly 2 years now and have heard nothing from nobody. I
> did not build or register it here, but it has been located here since
> October of 06. Thankfully it isnt on a public airport where it might
> get reported to the state.
>
>
>
> Do Not Archive!
>
>
>
> *Tim Bryan*
>
> *RV-6 Flying*
>
> *N616TB over 100 hours now*
>
> *From:* owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Besing
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:16 PM
> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
>
>
>
> Arizona airports provide the department of transportation a list of
> all the airplanes kept there, especially if you rent a hangar or tie
> down. The state will send you a notice saying that you must register
> and pay tax on the airplane, or provide proof that tax was paid. You
> also have a sticker you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005 of
> the 'assessed' value of the aircraft.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-4 N73DD
> Arizona
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dennis Jones <djones@northboone.net>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:23:57 AM
> Subject: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
>
> Any experience or knowledge on either Texas or Arizona on how these
> states treat sales and use tax on a completed experimental aircraft?
> In Texas do they allow the use of the "occasional sale" exemption?
>
>
>
> Jonsey
>
> * *
> * *
> * *
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
> **
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV Builder shops? |
A couple of years ago we stopped at Sulphur Springs (KSLR) and there was
a guy there who was doing builder service. Don't recall his name, but
FBO may know him.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 296JC
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Bryan
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Builder shops?
I am looking for a builder assist to finish my wheel pants, gear leg
fairings, and maybe a little wingtip re-work. I can't get this plane
painted till these are done and I just cannot tackle any more fiberglass
work. I live in East Texas. Anybody know of someone in this area? Or
close enough I could take the plane to reasonably.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 2:03 PM
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: RV Builder shops?
I've been away from the list for a while and would like to know who
the major builder shops around. I am checking for a friend who would
like a meticulously built RV-8, but is not interested in builder assist.
Preferably on the west coast somewhere..any recommendations?
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD
Arizona
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
Everyone else ignored you
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard!
Hey jsflyrv,
If I put up a website how would people know it was there or even what to
look for and or when it was happening?
I guess a newspaper is considered spam under your definition or even the
news on TV. The Internet is for just this very thing, mass public
notification, research, education and communication.
You just can't help some people, even for free.
Sorry you feel this way, but you and one other RV'er are the only two out of
thousands of aviators, corporations and the major aviation associations that
had anything at all even slightly negative to say. I guess I just don't
understand.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197624#197624
Message 4
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| Subject: | RV-8A Dwg 4PP (Elevator Dwg) |
Greetings:
Does anybody have Drawing 4PP (RV8 Elevator)?? It is an "old" Dwg that came with
my RV-8A Emphennage Kit about 7 years ago. Called Vans, but they do not have
access to it = stored somewhere collecting dust. My Drawing 4PP is Revision
1. Does anybody have this drawing with a later revisions ??? If so could you
share with me what the later revisions encompass. Just messed up my Left Elevator
Skin, possibly by using old (not valid) dimensions - don't want to make
this costly mistake again.
Appreciate YOUR HELP, Garey Wittich Santa Monica, CA
Message 5
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| Subject: | Elevator Fiberglass Tip - Now What...? |
Dear Listers,
First, thank you to everyone that has responded to my inquiry
regarding filling the gaping holes behind the fiberglass tips on the
Fin and Horz Stabs. You guys had some great ideas and I'm going to
try some and see how it goes.
In the meantime, I fit the fiberglass tip on the Right Elevator today
and after notching out the tip to fit around the lead weight and
beveling the outside edge of the tip, I got it to fit on very
nicely. I plan to use the same platenut installation as I did on the
rudder. Frankly, I can't believe that Van's recommends using pop
rivets here since if the screw that holds the lead weight in place
ever becomes loose, you'd have to ruin your paint job to get in and
tighten it. Bah!
Okay, so I got the tip on and then focused my attention to the front
part that goes over the lead weight. Um, what a terrible
design... Surly you don't just leave it like that? Even if I sand
the fiberglass tip down to match the lead weight, there is still the
issue of the "openness" of the tip. There is no way I can sand the
tip and lead weight down to match the counterbalance skin. The
fiberglass tip will be too thin right at the end.
I really don't want to fiberglass all around the lead weight. It
also seems like just about anything I do with respect to the
fiberglass tip and "blending" it into the lead weight is going to
lead to cracking down the road.
I'm am just totally aghast at the "design" here. There just doesn't
seem like an elegant way to finish this off. The proper design would
have been, in my opinion, to make the lead weight smaller or a
slightly different shape such that the fiberglass tip could simply be
formed all the way around the lead weight. Kind of like on the Rudder.
Arg... I just don't know what to do here. I really don't want to
glass in the whole tip, particularly since I want it to be
removable. Do I really just sand the tip down flush with the lead
weight and call it "done"?
You know, it seems ironic that the sheet metal stuff in the
late-model kits is just so awesome. You can build a beautiful,
perfectly straight empennage now in a way that just wasn't possible
in the past. So now I have this awesome looking metal structure that
I have to dork a crappy, poorly formed fiberglass tip to it. Its all
just so disheartening...
Please tell me there's a special trick or maybe a really nice
after-market all metal hydroformed tip I can get to use instead...?
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880
Message 6
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| Subject: | State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft |
The assessed value only applies to certificated aircraft and they use a 'low
book' value. Experimentals are $25 a year.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Almost flying in Flagstaff, AZ
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
>>>You also have a sticker you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005 of
the 'assessed' value of the aircraft. <<<
OMG! 80k * .005 = $ 400.00 Who gets to determine the value? I live in
Texas for nearly 2 years now and have heard nothing from nobody. I did not
build or register it here, but it has been located here since October of 06.
Thankfully it isn't on a public airport where it might get reported to the
state.
Do Not Archive!
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
Arizona airports provide the department of transportation a list of all the
airplanes kept there, especially if you rent a hangar or tie down. The
state will send you a notice saying that you must register and pay tax on
the airplane, or provide proof that tax was paid. You also have a sticker
you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005 of the 'assessed' value of the
aircraft.
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD
Arizona
----- Original Message ----
From: Dennis Jones <djones@northboone.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:23:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
Any experience or knowledge on either Texas or Arizona on how these states
treat sales and use tax on a completed experimental aircraft? In Texas do
they allow the use of the "occasional sale" exemption?
Jonsey
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1:22 PM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Fiberglass Tip - Now What...? |
Matt,
Read this web site: http://www.rvproject.com/
All the answers your looking for can be found on Mr. Checkoways web site.
Mike Ice
Just did a first flight in my RV9 today. Flies great, flies straight, looks
great.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: RV-List: Elevator Fiberglass Tip - Now What...?
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> First, thank you to everyone that has responded to my inquiry
> regarding filling the gaping holes behind the fiberglass tips on the
> Fin and Horz Stabs. You guys had some great ideas and I'm going to
> try some and see how it goes.
>
> In the meantime, I fit the fiberglass tip on the Right Elevator today
> and after notching out the tip to fit around the lead weight and
> beveling the outside edge of the tip, I got it to fit on very
> nicely. I plan to use the same platenut installation as I did on the
> rudder. Frankly, I can't believe that Van's recommends using pop
> rivets here since if the screw that holds the lead weight in place
> ever becomes loose, you'd have to ruin your paint job to get in and
> tighten it. Bah!
>
> Okay, so I got the tip on and then focused my attention to the front
> part that goes over the lead weight. Um, what a terrible
> design... Surly you don't just leave it like that? Even if I sand
> the fiberglass tip down to match the lead weight, there is still the
> issue of the "openness" of the tip. There is no way I can sand the
> tip and lead weight down to match the counterbalance skin. The
> fiberglass tip will be too thin right at the end.
>
> I really don't want to fiberglass all around the lead weight. It
> also seems like just about anything I do with respect to the
> fiberglass tip and "blending" it into the lead weight is going to
> lead to cracking down the road.
>
> I'm am just totally aghast at the "design" here. There just doesn't
> seem like an elegant way to finish this off. The proper design would
> have been, in my opinion, to make the lead weight smaller or a
> slightly different shape such that the fiberglass tip could simply be
> formed all the way around the lead weight. Kind of like on the Rudder.
>
> Arg... I just don't know what to do here. I really don't want to
> glass in the whole tip, particularly since I want it to be
> removable. Do I really just sand the tip down flush with the lead
> weight and call it "done"?
>
> You know, it seems ironic that the sheet metal stuff in the
> late-model kits is just so awesome. You can build a beautiful,
> perfectly straight empennage now in a way that just wasn't possible
> in the past. So now I have this awesome looking metal structure that
> I have to dork a crappy, poorly formed fiberglass tip to it. Its all
> just so disheartening...
>
> Please tell me there's a special trick or maybe a really nice
> after-market all metal hydroformed tip I can get to use instead...?
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft |
Paul, that publication is also about worthless. Note that the registration
form refers to instructions "in the registration guidelines". When I
emailed the Aviation division about the form, they asked me for my N number
and then replied that my aircraft is an Experimental (as opposed to
Homebuilt and no explanation as to what the difference is. They also told
me to hold the form until I have the Airworthiness certificate; the purchase
date is the Bill of Sale date and the date the aircraft enters the state is
the date on the Airworthiness. So, I have yet to receive a bill either but
I have it on good authority (a longtime resident A&P and also a guy who just
registered his Lancair Propject) that non-certificated aircraft don't get
assessed by that formula; the Lancair guy just paid $25 for his last year.
Maybe they assume experimental are always under repair. ;)
Now, the tax issue is another kettle of fish entirely. I have already been
practicing my cringe for when that shoe drops.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Close to first engine start
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
From the Arizona registration publication:
"The Aeronautics Division annually determines the value of aircraft for tax
purposes using industry sources and guides. The value assessed is based on
the average low wholesale bluebook value for the make, model, and year of
the aircraft. No consideration is given to condition, equipment, or
purchase price."
The other post about $25 is ONLY for storage or under repair.
Keep in mind, this is an ANNUAL fee. So yes, an $80k airplane costs
$400/year to register. Once you register, then the tax man will also come
talk to you to see if you paid sales tax of whatever percent....I have yet
to have the bill, but I am about to register so we will see. I imagine it's
5-7% sales tax too..
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD
Arizona
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Bryan <n616tb@btsapps.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 4:11:47 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
>>>You also have a sticker you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005 of
the 'assessed' value of the aircraft. <<<
OMG! 80k * .005 = $ 400.00 Who gets to determine the value? I live in
Texas for nearly 2 years now and have heard nothing from nobody. I did not
build or register it here, but it has been located here since October of 06.
Thankfully it isn?t on a public airport where it might get reported to the
state.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB over 100 hours now
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
Arizona airports provide the department of transportation a list of all the
airplanes kept there, especially if you rent a hangar or tie down. The
state will send you a notice saying that you must register and pay tax on
the airplane, or provide proof that tax was paid. You also have a sticker
you have to buy and is an annual fee of .005 of the 'assessed' value of the
aircraft.
Paul Besing
RV-4 N73DD
Arizona
----- Original Message ----
From: Dennis Jones <djones@northboone.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:23:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: State use and sales tax on experimental aircraft
Any experience or knowledge on either Texas or Arizona on how these states
treat sales and use tax on a completed experimental aircraft? In Texas do
they allow the use of the "occasional sale" exemption?
Jonsey
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