Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Slick mags/bendix mags (Charles Heathco)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: Slick Mag Health Check-up (Kelly McMullen)
3. 10:30 AM - who built it (Wheeler North)
4. 12:09 PM - Re: who built it (John Cox)
5. 03:52 PM - Looking for dipstick & tube (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 04:19 PM - Re: (David Schaefer)
7. 04:31 PM - Re: Looking for dipstick & tube (Darrell Reiley)
8. 06:30 PM - Re: Slick mags/bendix mags (RICHARD MILLER)
9. 11:05 PM - Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:11 PM - Official RV-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Slick mags/bendix mags |
My 2 cents. I had bendix on my cherokee, rt failed while truning base,
scared the crap out of me initially, have had 2 bendix go bad on my
initial engine on my 6A, one which had only 20 hrs on overhaul.
Relitivly low time. I have slicks on the relativly low time used engine
I installed 3 anuals back, nary a peap of trouble. timing spot on all
trhee anualls. Guess what my favorite brand is? Charlie Heathco
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
The data is out there, you just have to look a bit. Fact, Slick mags on
a Mooney TLS TIO540 rarely make 500 hours before needing service, and
generally aren't good for more than one overhaul. Granted this is a
pressurized mag used at up to FL250. Fact, Slick has a problem with
their brushes in distributor cap for the last two years, no resolution
to date. Several RV-10s have had dual mag failures on first flight or
within 20 hours. Fact, the majority of A&Ps prefer Bendix mags, must be
marketing or karma, eh? Other than your first two sentences, I agree
with the rest of your comments.
Kelly
Do not archive
linn Walters wrote:
>
> Pretty strong words without any data. I have seen both Bendix and
> Slick mags go over 2000 hours with no maintenance until I heard about
> the 500 hour suggested inspection/overhaul time. The difference after
> overhaul is astounding. The degradation over time is so slow as to
> make it unnoticeable. After the overhaul though, the Bendix mags make
> a hotter spark. But the Slicks weigh less. You need to decide which
> is mor important to you. I think the inspection/overhaul is best left
> to someone that does a lot of them and has the tools.
> Linn
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Is it functionally possible to stop the pro-building?
Let's say I, Joe DAR, interview you and decide you couldn't have built the
airplane, and you have not provided reasonable proof that you did so I deny
your new lawn ornament airworthiness.
Your response is obviously to challenge this based upon the validity of my
criteria used to deny certification. In the best case scenario I am able to
defend this and the FAA and courts uphold my decision and you get pissed and
sell it to another person across the country who then manages to get it
certified because they have builder savvy, or a less vigilant DAR.
And of course in all of this there is never an assessment of quality because
there are no valid airworthiness standards for approval of amateur built
parts/planes.
On the other end of this, if I, a pro, build an airplane, certify it and
sell it upon entrance into phase two I have followed the letter of the rules
but the end result is really the same with the exception of the repairman's
certificate. And it is important to note that the repairman's certificate
only really does one thing,,, allows the repairman to sign off condition
inspections. Any other work can be done by anybody, because there are no
standards for parts, workmanship, or any flight characteristics that could
have been altered by the work. Experimental aircraft are exempted from all
of those parts of the regs. So, the end result is the only difference
between the above scenario and the pro built scenario is who does the
condition inspection.
I'm being a little worst-case cynical here, but from the FAA Inspector's
perspective the current rules don't really give them much in the way of
stopping the pro builders. Throughout the building there are no laws being
broken. They can't walk into a hangar where ten planes are being built and
arrest everyone. They don't have the resources to track where each one of
those planes go and stop their certification at the point of DAR inspection.
So, in spite of our feelings about fraudulent award winning, what is the
real goal of all of this??? Don't we really want airplanes that are built
safely, while also allowing for planes to exist that are not stuck in Part
23/33/43 standards. We want to be able to build our own airplanes. We want
the maintenance of all of these to be done with some measure of quality and
safety. And, quite frankly I would like this to be done in a way that
provides for the FAA to be able to legitimately bring about an enforcement
action when these goals are not being accomplished. In the big picture I
really don't care who builds it as long as it flies well and isn't likely to
fall apart in flight.
The fact that I have built more than one airplane is very germane to my
fulfillment, but it isn't to this conversation. Let's say you spend all of
your time inventing the cure for cancer but you want the joy of owning an
RV-XX that is customized to your liking. Is it right for me to begrudge you
that just because I used my time building airplanes while you spent your
time curing cancer?
I use this scenario to illustrate that we feel the way we do because of long
standing principles reflected in regs, but those regs and feelings some what
contradict a more desirous end goal (building safe, fun airplanes and a way
to prevent unsafe airplanes). Right now the regs don't really get us there.
That's my two cents
Guess I'll have to go read the proposed new policies... ;{)
Wheeler
PS, are we still do not archive ing ? I only have the time to lurk on the
list here and there so miss a bunch.
Message 4
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Great perspective.
In simplistic terms there are two issues before the ARC and the
approaching deadline. The first is the competitive concern that one
manufacturer made an OBAM project which was so advanced in performance,
passenger capacity, materials and construction techniques his
competitors got professionally jealous (Page 5,para 3,4&5). The
manufacturing members of the ARC want his success curtailed.
The second is that there are so many individuals now finding the cure
for cancer and having a pro builder construct a major portion of their
"Amateur Kit" that compliance has become what the ARC referred to as a
compliance joke (Page 3, Para 2). As the FAA said at OSH, "This
discussion is not about Safety".
How tragic. The ARC is attempting to affect a minimal change to a
policy (not a rule). And although this is not a rule change requiring an
NPRM, the FAA graciously allows us to comment in writing before they
establish their new November 2008,policy. All discuss is good
discussion. Comments are solicited. Unfortunately it is not about
majority rule in its implementation. No one wants to curtail the cure
for cancer. The ARC makes it look like the kit manufacturers want to
protect the Amateur builders from the Pros doing work on approved
Amateur Built Kits in growing numbers (Page 7, Para 3).
Anyone else have a good argument for Pros to do the work of Amateurs?
My Oncologist is a amateur kit builder without use of professionals, he
finds the work therapeutic.
Only time will tell us if the ethics and efforts of builders can stop
the pro-building. If it is left up to the FAA, then I think you are
right. We need no policy change, only enforcement. Market forces are
doing the rest.
John Cox
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler North
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:27 AM
Subject: RV-List: who built it
Is it functionally possible to stop the pro-building?
Let's say I, Joe DAR, interview you and decide you couldn't have built
the
airplane, and you have not provided reasonable proof that you did so I
deny
your new lawn ornament airworthiness.
Your response is obviously to challenge this based upon the validity of
my
criteria used to deny certification. In the best case scenario I am able
to
defend this and the FAA and courts uphold my decision and you get pissed
and
sell it to another person across the country who then manages to get it
certified because they have builder savvy, or a less vigilant DAR.
And of course in all of this there is never an assessment of quality
because
there are no valid airworthiness standards for approval of amateur built
parts/planes.
On the other end of this, if I, a pro, build an airplane, certify it and
sell it upon entrance into phase two I have followed the letter of the
rules
but the end result is really the same with the exception of the
repairman's
certificate. And it is important to note that the repairman's
certificate
only really does one thing,,, allows the repairman to sign off condition
inspections. Any other work can be done by anybody, because there are no
standards for parts, workmanship, or any flight characteristics that
could
have been altered by the work. Experimental aircraft are exempted from
all
of those parts of the regs. So, the end result is the only difference
between the above scenario and the pro built scenario is who does the
condition inspection.
I'm being a little worst-case cynical here, but from the FAA Inspector's
perspective the current rules don't really give them much in the way of
stopping the pro builders. Throughout the building there are no laws
being
broken. They can't walk into a hangar where ten planes are being built
and
arrest everyone. They don't have the resources to track where each one
of
those planes go and stop their certification at the point of DAR
inspection.
So, in spite of our feelings about fraudulent award winning, what is the
real goal of all of this??? Don't we really want airplanes that are
built
safely, while also allowing for planes to exist that are not stuck in
Part
23/33/43 standards. We want to be able to build our own airplanes. We
want
the maintenance of all of these to be done with some measure of quality
and
safety. And, quite frankly I would like this to be done in a way that
provides for the FAA to be able to legitimately bring about an
enforcement
action when these goals are not being accomplished. In the big picture I
really don't care who builds it as long as it flies well and isn't
likely to
fall apart in flight.
The fact that I have built more than one airplane is very germane to my
fulfillment, but it isn't to this conversation. Let's say you spend all
of
your time inventing the cure for cancer but you want the joy of owning
an
RV-XX that is customized to your liking. Is it right for me to begrudge
you
that just because I used my time building airplanes while you spent your
time curing cancer?
I use this scenario to illustrate that we feel the way we do because of
long
standing principles reflected in regs, but those regs and feelings some
what
contradict a more desirous end goal (building safe, fun airplanes and a
way
to prevent unsafe airplanes). Right now the regs don't really get us
there.
That's my two cents
Guess I'll have to go read the proposed new policies... ;{)
Wheeler
PS, are we still do not archive ing ? I only have the time to lurk on
the
list here and there so miss a bunch.
Message 5
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Subject: | Looking for dipstick & tube |
Howdy, y'all-
My E3D came with a modified (shortened) oil dipstick and tube, and I'd like
to replace them with the correct parts, specifically LW-14735 (stick), 75736
(tube) -part#s from Lycoming parts manual- and have wasted about 2 hours
googling- tried e-bay, Wentworth, broad search queries etc. with no joy. Not
much help digging through current Trade-a-plane either.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
Mark
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 6
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|
I may know where a prop is .. it just came out of the prop shop and is
shorter than most. Let me find out if it is fixed or constant speed.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Dave Allen <dballen2007@att.net> wrote:
> It's time for me to buy a metal prop for my standard RV9A project.
> I have a new 160 HP ECi engine.
> Van's recommends their new Sensenich with a pitch of 79 inches for $2100.
>
> I have a chance to buy a low time damaged/repaired Sensenich from an RV6A
> that has been repitched to 77 inches for about half the price.
> How much difference will the 2 inches make? Will I be able to tell any
> difference, etc.
> Lets hear some of your thoughts about this -- both pro and con.
>
> Thanks in advance for you help.
>
> Dave Allen
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
David W. Schaefer
RV-6A N142DS formerly "Geek One' reborn "Nerdgasm"
TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS
www.n142ds.com
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Looking for dipstick & tube |
Mark,
I've got a a Lycoming oil dip stick extention in the truck I believe.
Darrell
--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Fiveonepw@aol.com <Fiveonepw@aol.com> wrote:
> From: Fiveonepw@aol.com <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Looking for dipstick & tube
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 5:49 PM
> Howdy, y'all-
>
> My E3D came with a modified (shortened) oil dipstick and
> tube, and I'd like
> to replace them with the correct parts, specifically
> LW-14735 (stick), 75736
> (tube) -part#s from Lycoming parts manual- and have wasted
> about 2 hours
> googling- tried e-bay, Wentworth, broad search queries etc.
> with no joy. Not
> much help digging through current Trade-a-plane either.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
> Mark
>
>
>
> **************It's only a deal if it's where you
> want to go. Find your travel
> deal here.
> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Slick mags/bendix mags |
charles
i have to ask a couple of questions, how many hrs. on the rt mag. the two bendix
on the 6a what was the hours on the mags and what was the condition of the
engine, who did the overhaul, you, an a+p, or a mag shop. and for those of you
that think timing will tell you the mag is ok, you are wrong it only tells
you that the cam has not fallen part. it doe's not tell you what is going on with
the rotor.
rick
--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Charles Heathco <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
> From: Charles Heathco <cheathco@cox.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Slick mags/bendix mags
> To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 6:25 AM
> My 2 cents. I had bendix on my cherokee, rt failed while
> truning base, scared the crap out of me initially, have had
> 2 bendix go bad on my initial engine on my 6A, one which had
> only 20 hrs on overhaul. Relitivly low time. I have slicks
> on the relativly low time used engine I installed 3 anuals
> back, nary a peap of trouble. timing spot on all trhee
> anualls. Guess what my favorite brand is? Charlie Heathco
Message 9
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Subject: | Official RV-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
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following URL:
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a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RV-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RV-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RV-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RV-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RV-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RV-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RV-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RV-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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Subject: | Official RV-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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