Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (N395V)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Charles Heathco)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (b e)
4. 07:21 AM - Closure Rates (Steve Glasgow)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 09/16/08 (Glen Matejcek)
6. 07:43 AM - Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (N395V)
7. 08:08 AM - Re: Closure Rates (scott bilinski)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Closure Rates (Ralph Finch)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Closure Rates (mark phipps)
10. 08:46 AM - Re: Closure Rates (Ron Lee)
11. 09:18 AM - Re: Closure Rates (John Jessen)
12. 09:18 AM - Loose bolts (Wheeler North)
13. 10:36 AM - Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (Bill Boyd)
14. 11:03 AM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Bill Boyd)
15. 11:25 AM - Blood Oxygen Levels (John Fasching)
16. 11:33 AM - Re: Closure Rates (RICHARD MILLER)
17. 12:02 PM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Robin Marks)
18. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (Bill Boyd)
19. 12:38 PM - RV-6 / 6a kit for sale (Scott Kuebler)
20. 01:13 PM - Re: Blood Oxygen Levels (Bill Boyd)
21. 05:33 PM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Charles Kuss)
22. 06:01 PM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Timothy E. Cone)
23. 08:12 PM - Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? (Tom Gummo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
Barry Chapman wrote:
> John,
>
> Us flat landers in the medical community would be ordering you home oxygen and
likely portable oxygen if your pulse oximetry showed that low. Normal for most
adults is 92% or better. If you are indeed that low on oxygen (adapted or
not) think of what your brain is deprived of? Oxygen!! Low oxygen equates to
decreased level of consciousness, slowed brain function, and even possible damage
to the brain cells. BTW, this low of pulse ox is usually seen in those
with emphysema or COPD. Also, don't let your AME know this, he'll ground you
in a heartbeat. Just my half of a nickels worth of input.
>
> Barry Chapman, Family Nurse Practitioner
> RV-9A wings in progress
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> ---
Barry,
By now he has significantly elevated levels of 3DPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3-Bisphosphoglycerate
This allows his blood at lower Sats to oxygenate his tissue at the same rate you
and I do in th 90+% range.
I would guess he would do fine at 15-16000' without O2.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4744#204744
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? |
I routinly fly above 12500 for long periods, much higher even, till have
to come down for gas, Im one of those reare ones that need less oxy I
suppose. Charlie h
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
Agreed=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: N395V <Bearcat@bearca
taviation.com>=0ATo: rv-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, September 17,
2008 7:23:16 AM=0ASubject: RV-List: Re: Blood Oxygen Levels=0A=0A--> RV-Li
st message posted by: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>=0A=0A=0ABarry C
hapman wrote:=0A> John,=0A> =0A> Us flat landers in the medical community w
ould be ordering you home oxygen and likely portable oxygen if your pulse o
ximetry showed that low.- Normal for most adults is 92% or better.- If
you are indeed that low on oxygen (adapted or not) think of what your brain
is deprived of?- Oxygen!!- Low oxygen equates to decreased level of co
nsciousness, slowed brain function, and even possible damage to the brain c
ells.- BTW, this low of pulse ox is usually seen in those with emphysema
or COPD.- Also, don't let your AME know this, he'll ground you in a heart
beat.- Just my half of a nickels worth of input.=0A> =0A> Barry Chapman,
Family Nurse Practitioner=0A> RV-9A wings in progress=0A> =0A> Do not archi
ve=0A> =0A> =0A> ---=0A=0A=0ABarry,=0A=0ABy now he has significantly elevat
ed levels of 3DPG=0A=0Ahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3-Bisphosphoglycerate
=0A=0AThis allows his blood at lower Sats to oxygenate his tissue at the sa
me rate you and I do in th 90+% range.=0A=0AI would guess he would do fine
at 15-16000' without O2.=0A=0A--------=0AMilt=0A2003 F1 Rocket=0A2006 Radia
l Rocket=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matr
=====================
Message 4
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Before I begin let me ask two questions. How many times have you been given
traffic at three miles and you never saw the traffic? How much traffic do
we miss seeing because we are VFR and/or ATC has not pointed out the
traffic?
To keep the numbers simple lets use an RV traveling at 180 mph and a Jet
traveling at 540 mph.
With two RVs closing head on, we have 180 + 180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means if there was another RV three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have 30 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With an RV and a Jet closing head on, we have 180 + 540 = 720 mph or 12
miles/minute. This means if there was traffic three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have only 15 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With a Jet directly behind an RV, we have 540 -180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means the Jet would only have 30 seconds to see and
avoid running the RV. Assuming he/she is looking, now only one pilot has
just 30 seconds to see and avoid!
Except for takeoff and landings where they are restricted to 250 knots, Jets
and other faster planes generally fly above 10,000. Additionally, many
Jets and other faster planes regularly fly between 10,000 and 17,500
without positive control or VFR.
Therefore, unless there are rocks to avoid, my personal preference is to
stay below 10,000.
Im not telling anyone how to fly their airplane or suggesting flying above
10,000 is unsafe. Im just pointing out some facts that might be food for
thought.
Steve Glasgow - Cappy
willfly@carolina.rr.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 09/16/08 |
>From: John Bright <john_s_bright@yahoo.com>
>Subject: RV-List: paint shaker recommendation
>
>Can anyone recommend a paint shaker for quart and gallon cans?
>
> Thanks,
While conducting some other business, I asked the paint distributor around the
corner what it would take to have them shake up some non-house paint. They said
they'd be happy to do it for free, anytime. Might be someone in your neck
of the woods who'd do the same.
Glen Matejcek
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
As a flatlander when making extended trips in the mountains I will usually spend
one or 2 nites at a 4000 ft elevation then one or 2 at 7000 feet and this helps
immensely.
In the past I have tried taking acetazolamide for 2 weeks before the trip as it
is supposed to enhance endogenous production of 3 dpg but I never really noticed
any benefit.
After about 2 weeks you at altitude you have probably started increasing your supply
of red blood cells which also helps.
I have never been a big fan of O2 sat monitors. I think it better for us low altitude
types to either just use O2 above 10,000 or go through some process of
acclimatization if we have the time to do so. Even then I wouldn't spend a lot
of time above 12,000 without O2.
Maybe we have a Pulmonologist on the list who can chime in and shed a little more
light on this.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4771#204771
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Closure Rates |
I like to fly 10k to 12.5k to keep away from all the other traffic that flies below
10k. I understand your point, but at 12.5k I would guess you have at least
50% less traffic than you do at 8k. So which is better.......faster traffic
up high but less of them, or slower traffic down low and more of them?
Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:20:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Closure Rates
Before I begin let me ask two questions. How many times have you been given
traffic at three miles and you never saw the traffic? How much traffic do
we miss seeing because we are VFR and/or ATC has not pointed out the
traffic?
To keep the numbers simple lets use an RV traveling at 180 mph and a Jet
traveling at 540 mph.
With two RVs closing head on, we have 180 + 180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means if there was another RV three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have 30 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With an RV and a Jet closing head on, we have 180 + 540 = 720 mph or 12
miles/minute. This means if there was traffic three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have only 15 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With a Jet directly behind an RV, we have 540 -180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means the Jet would only have 30 seconds to see and
avoid running the RV. Assuming he/she is looking, now only one pilot has
just 30 seconds to see and avoid!
Except for takeoff and landings where they are restricted to 250 knots, Jets
and other faster planes generally fly above 10,000. Additionally, many
Jets and other faster planes regularly fly between 10,000 and 17,500
without positive control or VFR.
Therefore, unless there are rocks to avoid, my personal preference is to
stay below 10,000.
Im not telling anyone how to fly their airplane or suggesting flying above
10,000 is unsafe. Im just pointing out some facts that might be food for
thought.
Steve Glasgow - Cappy
willfly@carolina.rr.com
Message 8
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"Except for takeoff and landings where they are restricted to 250 knots,
Jets and other faster planes generally fly above 10,000'. Additionally,
many Jets and other faster planes regularly fly between 10,000' and 17,500'
without positive control or VFR."
So pick up flight following above 10K. Even if other aircraft aren't talking
to Center, at that altitude they will have their Mode-C on and Center can
give you avoidance alerts.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Closure Rates |
Steve, let me repond as an RV6A pilot and an En Route controller with over
20 years experience. The numbers you quote are close on closing times. Most
controllers try to call traffic soon enough to give either pilot time to r
espond, additionally you should know that we spend a great deal of time com
paring ground tracks, climb or descent rates, etc to determine if close pro
ximity is imminent. It is not our discretion to decide if we wish to call t
raffic to you, but it may be based upon controller workload. If the control
ler feels two aircraft may be too close and either not see each other, they
will recommend a course of action to alleviate the problem, it will not be
surprise to you. I am completely comfortable flying VFR in class B, C or D
airspace while receiving flight following that ATC will keep me appraised
of potential traffic problems.
-
M. Phipps
--- On Wed, 9/17/08, Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
From: Steve Glasgow <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Closure Rates
<willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Before I begin let me ask two questions. How many times have you been give
n
traffic at three miles and you never saw the traffic? How much traffic do
we miss seeing because we are VFR and/or ATC has not pointed out the
traffic?
To keep the numbers simple lets use an RV traveling at 180 mph and a Jet
traveling at 540 mph.
With two RV=A2s closing head on, we have 180 + 180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means if there was another RV three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have 30 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With an RV and a Jet closing head on, we have 180 + 540 = 720 mph or 12
miles/minute. This means if there was traffic three miles ahead, both
aircraft would have only 15 seconds to see and avoid the each other.
With a Jet directly behind an RV, we have 540 -180 = 360 mph or 6
miles/minute. This means the Jet would only have 30 seconds to see and
avoid running the RV. Assuming he/she is looking, now only one pilot has
just 30 seconds to see and avoid!
Except for takeoff and landings where they are restricted to 250 knots, Jet
s
and other faster planes generally fly above 10,000=A2. Additionally, many
Jets and other faster planes regularly fly between 10,000=A2 and 17,500=A2
without positive control or VFR.
Therefore, unless there are rocks to avoid, my personal preference is to
stay below 10,000=A2.
I=A2m not telling anyone how to fly their airplane or suggesting flying abo
ve
10,000=A2 is unsafe. I=A2m just pointing out some facts that might be food
for
thought.
Steve Glasgow - Cappy
willfly@carolina.rr.com
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Closure Rates |
> Except for takeoff and landings where they are restricted to 250 knots,
> Jets and other faster planes generally fly above 10,000. Additionally,
> many Jets and other faster planes regularly fly between 10,000 and 17,500
> without positive control or VFR.
>
> Im not telling anyone how to fly their airplane or suggesting flying
> above 10,000 is unsafe. Im just pointing out some facts that might be
> food for thought.
>
> Steve Glasgow - Cappy
My home airport is at 6840 feet so I rarely fly below 10,000' Over the
mountains 12,500' minimum and often 14,500' to 17,500'. Even when I
flew in Florida I was above 10,000'.
I use fly following and other than a FedEx plane leaving Memphis and
another airline flying into Orlando I have never seen a jet. The only other
called out jet was a F-117 (?) near White Sands. I did not see it. OK,
I just remember that flying over Denver Class B I see airliners. My point
relates to areas away from airports.
I stay above 10,000' to avoid other GA aircraft. I don't expect many other
aircraft of any sort in the areas I fly (between 10,000' and 17,500') and my
experience where I fly supports that. My limited time back east also
supports
that view but with less experience.
Ron Lee
Message 11
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I love flight following. Even if it's a no-joy, at least I know they
spotted something and will stay on top of it. Once going from Boston to
White Plains they cut me loose during a heavy traffic situation, and man, I
tell you, that got my attention. Right smack dab in the middle of the
busiest airspace in the country, being let go from radar services, going
into a busy airport on a hazy summer day, VFR, after seeing all sorts of
traffic at all sorts of altitudes, hearing all kinds of chatter over the
frequencies, it gets the old ticker pumping. And, it makes you realize just
how valuable flight following is for the VFR only pilot.
Out here in the west, I fly anywhere from 1,500 to 12,500 going over the
mountains, and anytime I'm above 3,000 and going any distance, I usually get
hooked up with them. Highly recommend it.
John J
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee
Subject: Re: RV-List: Closure Rates
...I use fly following and other than a FedEx plane leaving Memphis and
another airline flying into Orlando I have never seen a jet...
Message 12
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Yeah,
It is likely compression of both the metal stack and the tube that projects
out which is the weld point for the rest of the mount.
What is frustrating is the four stayed tight for 1000 hours and then got
loose in the last 200.
On the case half discussion, all cases flex a microscopic amount as the
cylinder is projected away from the piston. Ya, you should check those
fasteners every chance you get.
On the Titan ECI AD, piss, I got 'em, fortunately am very low in the A group
and now need to do a comp check every 50 instead of 100 hours. And they did
a "hartzel" bait and switch by making them throwaway units after the fact.
Not that I disagree with this, running cylinders beyond the original TBO
comes at some increased risk. Given the low cost differential between
overhauled and new it is hard to justify reusing them over peace of mind.
But still it rankles one's sensibilities.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
John- what Barry said!
If you are fully-functional at a chronic arterial O2 sat of 80-anything,
you're One Adapted Dude. I suspect a faulty pulse ox. Get yourself checked
on a known-good medical-grade unit. If that 86-89% value is real, you've
got trouble under the hood, my friend.
Bill B
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:21 PM, b e <bcrnfnp@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> Us flat landers in the medical community would be ordering you home oxygen
> and likely portable oxygen if your pulse oximetry showed that low. Normal
> for most adults is 92% or better. If you are indeed that low on oxygen
> (adapted or not) think of what your brain is deprived of? Oxygen!! Low
> oxygen equates to decreased level of consciousness, slowed brain function,
> and even possible damage to the brain cells. BTW, this low of pulse ox is
> usually seen in those with emphysema or COPD. Also, don't let your AME know
> this, he'll ground you in a heartbeat. Just my half of a nickels worth of
> input.
>
> Barry Chapman, Family Nurse Practitioner
> RV-9A wings in progress
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Fasching <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:07:49 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Blood Oxygen Levels
>
> I have lived at about 7,500-ft for over 20-years now so I am probably a bit
> more adapted to low levels of Ox then 'flat-landers' but I thought to add
> one more data point to your discussion regarding oxygen use.
>
> Tomorrow I will leave home airport, and climb steadily until 13,500 to
> cross the continental divide in Colorado....after crossing at Monarch Pass I
> will descend to 12,500 to cruise altitude for another 45-minutes to my
> destination.
>
> Enroute at various altitudes I will use my rather expensive blood oxygen
> meter to see what levels of ox I have in my system. At home I usually see
> 86-89 % saturation.
>
> I do have oxygen but will not be using it tomorrow...I've made this trips
> many times so there's nothing new going on here. I'll post results just to
> add to the discussion.
>
> John
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? |
How would you know? Hypoxemic impairment is transparent to the sufferer.
You will be the last to know that your O2 levels are too low, absent a pulse
oximeter.
Bill B
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Charles Heathco <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
> I routinly fly above 12500 for long periods, much higher even, till have
> to come down for gas, Im one of those reare ones that need less oxy I
> suppose. Charlie h
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Blood Oxygen Levels |
I made the flight I mentioned. Here's what I saw re ox levels.
On ground before starting...airport 7523 msl OX level 90% saturadtion
Climbing through 11,000 -ft msl OX level 84% saturation.
At 13,.500 crossing the continental divide near Monarch Pass 79%
saturation
Level off at 12,500 to cruise westbound, OX level 80%
After cruising 30 minutes at 12,500 OX level at 82%
No adverse effect, no tiredness, mental confusion, or any other
abnormalties
I might mention I am 78-years old.
It was just a very nice flight.
FWIW
John
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Closure Rates |
steve
if you keep asking these question and we will all be required to have tcas.
occasiobally i have to fly to the SF bay area, and have never liked it. but the
big boys are not the ones that i worry about. we have a large collection of
migs and l-39s here. those are the guys that are tough to see. While it does seem
to happen the odds that you put your aircraft in the same fifty foot box as
somebody else enroute, is very slim. the odds of this happening though, see
pic is much higher
rick
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fly above 8000 ft ? |
I pulled out my monitor last night when I saw that 90% number. Mine
tested at 98% and sadly it has been a long time since I have done
serious aerobic exercise. I looked up a number of sources that had
acceptable levels down to 90% as borderline but I would suggest having a
professional review your numbers based on accurate equipment.
Robin
Do Not Archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
Only one way to know for sure: Ol' John has to get an ABG drawn. Maybe one
at home elevation and one in an altitude chamber.
BB
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:15 AM, b e <bcrnfnp@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Agreed
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: N395V <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:23:16 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Blood Oxygen Levels
>
>
>
> Barry Chapman wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > Us flat landers in the medical community would be ordering you home
> oxygen and likely portable oxygen if your pulse oximetry showed that low.
> Normal for most adults is 92% or better. If you are indeed that low on
> oxygen (adapted or not) think of what your brain is deprived of? Oxygen!!
> Low oxygen equates to decreased level of consciousness, slowed brain
> function, and even possible damage to the brain cells. BTW, this low of
> pulse ox is usually seen in those with emphysema or COPD. Also, don't let
> your AME know this, he'll ground you in a heartbeat. Just my half of a
> nickels worth of input.
> >
> > Barry Chapman, Family Nurse Practitioner
> > RV-9A wings in progress
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
> > ---
>
>
> Barry,
>
> By now he has significantly elevated levels of 3DPG
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3-Bisphosphoglycerate
>
> This allows his blood at lower Sats to oxygenate his tissue at the same
> rate you and I do in th 90+% range.
>
> I would guess he would do fine at 15-16000' without O2.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> *
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | RV-6 / 6a kit for sale |
RV-6 / 6a kit for sale.
Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator
trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer.
Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Both skeletons fully assembled. Top skins
riveted. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete,
but not fitted. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined
and primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G).
Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself.
Construction is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included
for both kits.
Detailed photos are available upon request.
Must sell. The first $3750 takes it all. Buyer arranges transportation.
If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500
for the unassembled kits.
Regards,
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
716-510-0318- cell
scottam65@gmail.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Blood Oxygen Levels |
Speculating here, John, but even with a high hemoglobin level (which affects
tissue delivery, but not partial pressure) and a right-shifted dissociation
curve, you're not likely above 55 Torr PaO2 at that 79% pulse ox reading (if
it's accurate), and that's hypoxemic impairment territory, IMO. Why not don
the oxygen cannula at 13,500 and increase your chances of being a Flying
Octagenarian, one day?
Hope I can do at 78 what you are. Will know in another 26 years.
Bill B
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:19 PM, John Fasching <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>wrote:
> I made the flight I mentioned. Here's what I saw re ox levels.
>
> On ground before starting...airport 7523 msl OX level 90% saturadtion
>
> Climbing through 11,000 -ft msl OX level 84% saturation.
>
> At 13,.500 crossing the continental divide near Monarch Pass 79% saturation
>
> Level off at 12,500 to cruise westbound, OX level 80%
>
> After cruising 30 minutes at 12,500 OX level at 82%
>
> No adverse effect, no tiredness, mental confusion, or any other
> abnormalties
>
> I might mention I am 78-years old.
>
> It was just a very nice flight.
>
> FWIW
>
> John
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? |
One simple test is to fly right seat. Have the pilot call out a point on the sectional
map and see how long it takes you to find it at 10,000 feet. Go on oxygen,
wait 3 minutes and try to find another point on the map. My location time
dropped by 67% on oxygen. As Bill mentions, you don't realize how impaired you
are until you perform a repeatable test.
Charlie Kuss
--- On Wed, 9/17/08, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fly above 8000 ft ?
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 2:02 PM
> How would you know? Hypoxemic impairment is transparent to
> the sufferer.
> You will be the last to know that your O2 levels are too
> low, absent a pulse
> oximeter.
>
> Bill B
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Charles Heathco
> <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > I routinly fly above 12500 for long periods, much
> higher even, till have
> > to come down for gas, Im one of those reare ones that
> need less oxy I
> > suppose. Charlie h
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? |
I hate to be the one to suggest something as basic as training, but...
You can, and I feel should, avail yourself of the altitude chamber training
that the FAA provides.
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/aerospace_physiology/
I know that people "feel fine"...wouldn't it be better to expand your
knowledge base?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fly above 8000 ft ?
>
> One simple test is to fly right seat. Have the pilot call out a point on
> the sectional map and see how long it takes you to find it at 10,000 feet.
> Go on oxygen, wait 3 minutes and try to find another point on the map. My
> location time dropped by 67% on oxygen. As Bill mentions, you don't
> realize how impaired you are until you perform a repeatable test.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fly above 8000 ft ?
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 2:02 PM
>> How would you know? Hypoxemic impairment is transparent to
>> the sufferer.
>> You will be the last to know that your O2 levels are too
>> low, absent a pulse
>> oximeter.
>>
>> Bill B
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Charles Heathco
>> <cheathco@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I routinly fly above 12500 for long periods, much
>> higher even, till have
>> > to come down for gas, Im one of those reare ones that
>> need less oxy I
>> > suppose. Charlie h
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fly above 8000 ft ? |
> You can, and I feel should, avail yourself of the altitude chamber
> training that the FAA provides.
>
> http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_education/aerospace_physiology/
What a great idea.
As an ex-military pilot, I had to go to this training every three years.
One of the things they would do, have you take off your mask at 8000 feet
(best I can remember) and they would reduce the lighting a little and after
a couple of minutes, they would have you put your mask back on and you would
think that they turned the lights back on. You could see OK but with oxygen
you could tell the difference. You can see better and think better with
oxygen! PERIOD.
Feeling OK is not a good indicator that everything is OK.
Worst case, at 25,000 or so, you have to take off your mask, so that you can
experience your hypoxia symptoms. I hate making a fool of myself so I very
quickly put my mask back on and lied about my symptoms (my feet did get
cold). Someone would always try to be macho and show how long they could
function (we would be required to do a simple task - like just write your
name.). After a very minutes, the instructor would ask how he/she was
doing and lots of times the response would just be a smile. Then the
instructor would say, you are going to die if you don't put your mask on.
More smiles, Sitting there and kept writing their name. Soon the
instructor would insist that they put on their mask. More smiles. Finally,
the instructor would just put the mask on their face and allow a couple of
gulps of 100% oxygen.
You could see the LIGHT come on in their eyes. When asked why they didn't
put their mask on. They would say something like, "I didn't feel bad or I
thought I was doing OK"
They would pass around the paper he/she was writing on and you could see
that they were NOT OK. The first several signatures would look OK but soon
all they were doing was junk. They were not functioning besides not
thinking clearly.
The only difference between flying at 12,000 and 25,000 without oxygen is
TIME. The longer you are at 12,000 the closer your thinking and functions
looks like you are at 25,000. Of course, there are a million factors which
speed or slow your personal progress.
Your mileage may vary.
Tom "GummiBear" Gummo
Wild Weasel #1573
USAF Major Retired
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
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