---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/23/08: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:05 AM - Re: Efis question (Ron Lee) 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Efis question (linn Walters) 3. 06:20 AM - Regaurding radio noise (Charles Heathco) 4. 06:38 AM - Air Box Mounting Plate (ferrerg@comcast.net) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: Air Box Mounting Plate (Dale Ensing) 6. 06:56 AM - Re: Air Box Mounting Plate (linn Walters) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: Air Box Mounting Plate (Michael Kraus) 8. 07:26 AM - tailwheel nut torque (Frazier, Vincent A) 9. 08:14 AM - Re: Efis question (Bruce Gray) 10. 08:29 AM - Wheel pants too low? (George Inman 204 287 8334) 11. 08:55 AM - EFIS backup (Ed Holyoke) 12. 09:35 AM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (Bob) 13. 10:34 AM - Instrument Refresher Simulator and Joy Stick for sale (Richard Dudley) 14. 10:39 AM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (HCRV6@comcast.net) 15. 12:32 PM - Re: Radio Problem (bert murillo) 16. 12:34 PM - Re: Efis question (bert murillo) 17. 12:59 PM - Re: Efis question (Bruce Gray) 18. 01:10 PM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (Richard McBride) 19. 01:51 PM - Re: Oil leak (Paul Rice) 20. 02:07 PM - Re: Efis question (Neal George) 21. 02:47 PM - Re: Air Box Mounting Plate (Carl Froehlich) 22. 05:04 PM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (John Danielson) 23. 05:47 PM - Re: Wheel pants too low? (rveighta) 24. 06:03 PM - Re: Efis question (FASTPILOTRV8@aol.com) 25. 06:34 PM - Re: Efis question (FASTPILOTRV8@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:04 AM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Tim, look at accident reports and you will find that 75% or so of the fatalities are due to pilot error. You have running out of fuel. You see flying into IMC when the pilot is not instrument rated but had been trained on partial panel. The Seaside OR crash appears to be a guy of unknown (to me) qualifications taking off into IMC. There was a plane that took off out of Steamboat Springs CO or close who impacted terrain. The weather was not suitable for this VFR pilot to fly and possibly not for any plane not certified for flight into icing conditions. I have not seen the report but would guess that it was gross pilot error. A family killed because of pilot stupidity. You see all kinds of Darwinistic behavior. Reality. A gizmo "may" make up for other system or human failures. Better judgement and training are perhaps better. The original poster needs to objectively assess his training, abilities and judgement and plan accordingly. Leaving out a alternate attitude reference that works for him may get him killed. Adding a "gizmo" might save him. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Timothy E. Cone To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question I'm really not trying to be snide, but if they aren't competent at partial panel, what in the heck are they doing penetrating IMC???? Betting their life that everything works? I'll take the odds in Vegas over that bet, any day. Training is a much better investment than ANY gizmo. Tim Cone ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:27 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Do you think that most people are competent at partial panel in IMC? The oroginal poster suggested that panel space was an issue which I find hard to believe. Perhaps a good wing-leveler/autopilot might save you in you lost your only attitude source. Ron Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Timothy E. Cone To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Since when is a loss of ADI or artificial horizon an automatic trip to the morgue? Don't they teach "partial panel" anymore? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:19 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question I thought I didn't have a dog in this fight, but I do. I have lost friends, and friends of friends, due to stupid pilot tricks. Rarely does the airframe let us down. That leaves two things .... the pilot, and his source of information. There are times when no amount of information will save the pilots bacon ...... let's face it ..... we all do the stupid pilot tricks ..... and an old pilot is one that survives all of his (or her) stupid mistakes. So far I'm a survivor. Now, back to my dog. I'm going to install the Odyssey panel (http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) and am going through the process of choosing how I want to populate the rest of the panel with backup instruments for IFR. By the time I purchase 2.5" gauges I can almost buy a small efis system, independent of the Odyssey. My problem is .... I've never flown behind a glass panel ..... and don't have an IFR ticket (yet). My partner has/does both ..... but for him there is a pilot and a copy of the left seat panel on the right side. I've spent a fair amount of time pondering the question of which path to go ..... and I've been collecting a few pictures of others panel ..... which just turns my thought processes into a headache. But I ramble ..... my question is this: What did you choose for your IFR backup capability, and why did you go that route???? Would you go that same route today???? Linn do not archive Ron Lee wrote: > Tim, look at accident reports and you will find that 75% or so of the > fatalities are due to pilot error. > > You have running out of fuel. > > You see flying into IMC when the pilot is not instrument rated but had > been trained on partial panel. > > The Seaside OR crash appears to be a guy of unknown (to me) > qualifications taking off into IMC. > > There was a plane that took off out of Steamboat Springs CO or close > who impacted terrain. > The weather was not suitable for this VFR pilot to fly and possibly > not for any plane not certified > for flight into icing conditions. I have not seen the report but > would guess that it was gross > pilot error. A family killed because of pilot stupidity. > > You see all kinds of Darwinistic behavior. Reality. A gizmo "may" > make up for other system > or human failures. Better judgement and training are perhaps better. > > The original poster needs to objectively assess his training, > abilities and judgement and plan > accordingly. Leaving out a alternate attitude reference that works > for him may get him killed. > Adding a "gizmo" might save him. > > Ron Lee > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Timothy E. Cone > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > I'm really not trying to be snide, but if they aren't competent at > partial panel, what in the heck are they doing penetrating > IMC???? Betting their life that everything works? I'll take the > odds in Vegas over that bet, any day. > > Training is a much better investment than ANY gizmo. > > Tim Cone > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ron Lee > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > Do you think that most people are competent at partial panel > in IMC? > > The oroginal poster suggested that panel space was an issue > which I find > hard to believe. > > Perhaps a good wing-leveler/autopilot might save you in you > lost your > only attitude source. > > Ron Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Timothy E. Cone > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > Since when is a loss of ADI or artificial horizon an > automatic trip to the morgue? > > Don't they teach "partial panel" anymore? > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:26 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Regaurding radio noise This may not apply here but I had loud static that developed a while back that I couldnt find problem, then by accident I turned the vol contr down on Nav side (KX124) and noise gone. havent fixed as I never use Nav side. Also couple weeks ago I got a loude noise in earph as soon as I started take off, traced to Icom, problem turned out to be girlfriend had hung her head set on my 296 on panel and when I took it off and hung it on back hook noise gone. Charlie heaqthco ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:08 AM PST US From: ferrerg@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate The last two times that I did my conditional inspection I found that my air box mounting aluminum plate was cracked. The first time I made a new mounting plate and tried to eliminate as many stress risers as I could. But it cracked again. This time I'm having a machine shop cut the rear hole behind the carburetor air intake (needed to clear the rear part of the carburetor) with a water cutting tool. I'm hoping that a smoother cut will prevent stress risers. Does anyone have any suggestions that may prevent the cracking? -- Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX South Florida's Treasure Coast email: ferrerg@comcast.net cell: 561 758 8894
The last two times that I did my conditional inspection I found that my air box mounting aluminum plate was cracked.
 
The first time I made a new mounting plate and tried to eliminate as many stress risers as I could. But it cracked again.
 
This time I'm having a machine shop cut the rear hole behind the carburetor air intake (needed to clear the rear part of the carburetor) with a water cutting tool.
 
I'm hoping that a smoother cut will prevent stress risers.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions that may prevent the cracking?
--
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX
South Florida's Treasure Coast
email: ferrerg@comcast.net
cell: 561 758 8894
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:41 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate Do you have adequate flexibility/movement at the airbox snout/cowl inlet se al to minimize stress on the airbox plate when there is movement of the eng ine? Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: ferrerg@comcast.net To: RV List Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:37 AM Subject: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate The last two times that I did my conditional inspection I found that my a ir box mounting aluminum plate was cracked. The first time I made a new mounting plate and tried to eliminate as many stress risers as I could. But it cracked again. This time I'm having a machine shop cut the rear hole behind the carburet or air intake (needed to clear the rear part of the carburetor) with a wate r cutting tool. I'm hoping that a smoother cut will prevent stress risers. Does anyone have any suggestions that may prevent the cracking? -- Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX South Florida's Treasure Coast email: ferrerg@comcast.net cell: 561 758 8894 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:30 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate ferrerg@comcast.net wrote: > The last two times that I did my conditional inspection I found > that my air box mounting aluminum plate was cracked. > > The first time I made a new mounting plate and tried to eliminate as > many stress risers as I could. But it cracked again. > > This time I'm having a machine shop cut the rear hole behind > the carburetor air intake (needed to clear the rear part of > the carburetor) with a water cutting tool. > > I'm hoping that a smoother cut will prevent stress risers. > > Does anyone have any suggestions that may prevent the cracking? You might try getting the prop dynamically balanced to reduce the vibration. Water cutting will still leave small knicks that will (could?) start to crack. A fine file followed by emery cloth to make it smooth is good prevention. Linn do not archive > -- > Gabe A Ferrer > RV6 N2GX > South Florida's Treasure Coast > email: ferrerg@comcast.net > cell: 561 758 8894 > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:39 AM PST US From: Michael Kraus Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate V2UgbWFkZSBvdXIgc2Vjb25kIG9uZSBvdXQgb2YgMC4wOTAgbWF0ZXJpYWwuLi4uDQoNCi0tLS0t T3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBmZXJyZXJnQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0DQpTZW50OiBU dWVzZGF5LCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjMsIDIwMDggOTozNyBBTQ0KVG86IFJWIExpc3QgPHJ2LWxpc3RA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IEFpciBCb3ggTW91bnRpbmcgUGxhdGUN Cg0KVGhlIGxhc3QgdHdvIHRpbWVzIHRoYXSgSSBkaWQgbXkgY29uZGl0aW9uYWwgaW5zcGVjdGlv biBJIGZvdW5kIHRoYXSgbXkgYWlyIGJveCBtb3VudGluZyBhbHVtaW51bSBwbGF0ZaB3YXMgY3Jh Y2tlZC4NCqANClRoZSBmaXJzdCB0aW1lIEkgbWFkZSBhIG5ldyBtb3VudGluZyBwbGF0ZSBhbmQg dHJpZWQgdG8gZWxpbWluYXRlIGFzIG1hbnkgc3RyZXNzIHJpc2VycyBhcyBJIGNvdWxkLiBCdXQg aXQgY3JhY2tlZCBhZ2Fpbi4NCqANClRoaXOgdGltZSBJJ20gaGF2aW5nIGEgbWFjaGluZSBzaG9w IGN1dCB0aGUgcmVhciBob2xlIGJlaGluZCB0aGWgY2FyYnVyZXRvciBhaXIgaW50YWtloChuZWVk ZWQgdG8gY2xlYXIgdGhlIHJlYXIgcGFydCBvZiB0aGWgY2FyYnVyZXRvcimgd2l0aCBhIHdhdGVy IGN1dHRpbmcgdG9vbC4NCqANCkknbSBob3BpbmcgdGhhdCBhIHNtb290aGVyIGN1dCB3aWxsIHBy ZXZlbnQgc3RyZXNzIHJpc2Vycy4NCqANCkRvZXMgYW55b25lIGhhdmUgYW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25z IHRoYXQgbWF5IHByZXZlbnQgdGhlIGNyYWNraW5nPw0KLS0NCkdhYmUgQSBGZXJyZXINClJWNiBO MkdYDQpTb3V0aCBGbG9yaWRhJ3MgVHJlYXN1cmUgQ29hc3QNCmVtYWlsOiBmZXJyZXJnQGNvbWNh c3QubmV0DQpjZWxsOiA1NjEgNzU4IDg4OTQNCgoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFJW LUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQpfLT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBO YXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlCl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExp c3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLApfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkg QnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsCl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6Cl8t PSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1JWLUxpc3QKXy09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0K Xy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0 IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0 cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29u dHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KXy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3Vw cG9ydCEKXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0 IEFkbWluLgpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpf LT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PQoK ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:15 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: tailwheel nut torque From: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP ******** Subject: RV-List: Tail wheel bolt torque What torque do you use for the 1/2 inch nut that holds the tailwheel fork on the spring? The torque for 1/2 in. bolts is 480 inch lbs ,but when it is this tight the fork is hard to turn in the mount. George H. Inman SNIP************** Ideally you should be able to tighten that nut normally, i.e. all the way down. I don't believe that putting 40 foot pounds (480 inch pounds) is really necessary... hand tightening normally is OK if your self-locking nut is in good shape. However, if you tighten the nut and it puts the mechanism in a bind, that isn't good. What is happening is that your socket is too tall for your fork. When you tighten the big nut, it binds everything. You can remedy this by removing a few thousandths of an inch of the socket height with a file, belt sander, etc. Obviously, you want to keep it relatively square while you're doing this. You can remove material from either end as it shouldn't be very much at all. An alternate fix for the "too tall, too tight" might be to drill the threaded portion of the fork to accept a cotter pin. Then you could leave the (castle) nut a little bit loose and not worry about it departing. If this doesn't make sense, feel free to call me in my office at 812-464-1839 Mon-Thur from 8-4 CST. I can't return long distance calls from that number, so if I don't answer please try again later or send an e-mail. Vince Frazier - the tailwheel guy, 150+ sold, in stock and ready to ship always Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://www.vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:29 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Efis question OK, here's my list for backup instruments. Attitude gyro - preferably driven by a different power source - vacuum. ASI, Altimeter. Handheld com and GPS. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:33 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question I thought I didn't have a dog in this fight, but I do. I have lost friends, and friends of friends, due to stupid pilot tricks. Rarely does the airframe let us down. That leaves two things .... the pilot, and his source of information. There are times when no amount of information will save the pilots bacon ...... let's face it ..... we all do the stupid pilot tricks ..... and an old pilot is one that survives all of his (or her) stupid mistakes. So far I'm a survivor. Now, back to my dog. I'm going to install the Odyssey panel (http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) and am going through the process of choosing how I want to populate the rest of the panel with backup instruments for IFR. By the time I purchase 2.5" gauges I can almost buy a small efis system, independent of the Odyssey. My problem is .... I've never flown behind a glass panel ..... and don't have an IFR ticket (yet). My partner has/does both ..... but for him there is a pilot and a copy of the left seat panel on the right side. I've spent a fair amount of time pondering the question of which path to go ..... and I've been collecting a few pictures of others panel ..... which just turns my thought processes into a headache. But I ramble ..... my question is this: What did you choose for your IFR backup capability, and why did you go that route???? Would you go that same route today???? Linn do not archive Ron Lee wrote: > Tim, look at accident reports and you will find that 75% or so of the > fatalities are due to pilot error. > > You have running out of fuel. > > You see flying into IMC when the pilot is not instrument rated but had > been trained on partial panel. > > The Seaside OR crash appears to be a guy of unknown (to me) > qualifications taking off into IMC. > > There was a plane that took off out of Steamboat Springs CO or close > who impacted terrain. > The weather was not suitable for this VFR pilot to fly and possibly > not for any plane not certified > for flight into icing conditions. I have not seen the report but > would guess that it was gross > pilot error. A family killed because of pilot stupidity. > > You see all kinds of Darwinistic behavior. Reality. A gizmo "may" > make up for other system > or human failures. Better judgement and training are perhaps better. > > The original poster needs to objectively assess his training, > abilities and judgement and plan > accordingly. Leaving out a alternate attitude reference that works > for him may get him killed. > Adding a "gizmo" might save him. > > Ron Lee > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Timothy E. Cone > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > I'm really not trying to be snide, but if they aren't competent at > partial panel, what in the heck are they doing penetrating > IMC???? Betting their life that everything works? I'll take the > odds in Vegas over that bet, any day. > > Training is a much better investment than ANY gizmo. > > Tim Cone > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ron Lee > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > Do you think that most people are competent at partial panel > in IMC? > > The oroginal poster suggested that panel space was an issue > which I find > hard to believe. > > Perhaps a good wing-leveler/autopilot might save you in you > lost your > only attitude source. > > Ron Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Timothy E. Cone > *To:* rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question > > Since when is a loss of ADI or artificial horizon an > automatic trip to the morgue? > > Don't they teach "partial panel" anymore? > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:19 AM PST US From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Subject: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock when the plane is down on the tail. I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have their wheel pants this low? -- George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:09 AM PST US From: Ed Holyoke Subject: RV-List: EFIS backup Linn, My money's on an independent wing leveler/autopilot. Independent so the failure of the EFIS doesn't take it out. Most of them have some sort of turn indicator display on them. I tend to turn on the AP when the visibility is not so good and monitor the EFIS (Dynon D-10). It cuts down the workload and gives time to think, if you need it. My next plane will have a 2 axis autopilot. I wouldn't be without backup steam gauges for airspeed and altimeter, either. A backup GPS would be good, too, especially if is only displayed on the EFIS. Pax, Ed Holyoke linn Walters wrote: > > I thought I didn't have a dog in this fight, but I do. I have lost > friends, and friends of friends, due to stupid pilot tricks. Rarely > does the airframe let us down. That leaves two things .... the pilot, > and his source of information. There are times when no amount of > information will save the pilots bacon ...... let's face it ..... we > all do the stupid pilot tricks ..... and an old pilot is one that > survives all of his (or her) stupid mistakes. So far I'm a survivor. > > Now, back to my dog. I'm going to install the Odyssey panel > (http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odyssey.html) > and am going through the process of choosing how I want to populate > the rest of the panel with backup instruments for IFR. By the time I > purchase 2.5" gauges I can almost buy a small efis system, independent > of the Odyssey. My problem is .... I've never flown behind a glass > panel ..... and don't have an IFR ticket (yet). My partner has/does > both ..... but for him there is a pilot and a copy of the left seat > panel on the right side. I've spent a fair amount of time pondering > the question of which path to go ..... and I've been collecting a few > pictures of others panel ..... which just turns my thought processes > into a headache. But I ramble ..... my question is this: What did > you choose for your IFR backup capability, and why did you go that > route???? Would you go that same route today???? > Linn > do not archive > > Ron Lee wrote: >> Tim, look at accident reports and you will find that 75% or so of the >> fatalities are due to pilot error. >> You have running out of fuel. >> You see flying into IMC when the pilot is not instrument rated but >> had been trained on partial panel. >> >> The Seaside OR crash appears to be a guy of unknown (to me) >> qualifications taking off into IMC. >> >> There was a plane that took off out of Steamboat Springs CO or close >> who impacted terrain. >> The weather was not suitable for this VFR pilot to fly and possibly >> not for any plane not certified >> for flight into icing conditions. I have not seen the report but >> would guess that it was gross >> pilot error. A family killed because of pilot stupidity. >> >> You see all kinds of Darwinistic behavior. Reality. A gizmo "may" >> make up for other system >> or human failures. Better judgement and training are perhaps better. >> >> The original poster needs to objectively assess his training, >> abilities and judgement and plan >> accordingly. Leaving out a alternate attitude reference that works >> for him may get him killed. >> Adding a "gizmo" might save him. >> >> Ron Lee >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Timothy E. Cone >> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:29 AM >> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question >> >> I'm really not trying to be snide, but if they aren't competent at >> partial panel, what in the heck are they doing penetrating >> IMC???? Betting their life that everything works? I'll take the >> odds in Vegas over that bet, any day. >> Training is a much better investment than ANY gizmo. >> Tim Cone >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Ron Lee >> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:27 PM >> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question >> >> Do you think that most people are competent at partial panel >> in IMC? >> The oroginal poster suggested that panel space was >> an issue >> which I find >> hard to believe. >> Perhaps a good wing-leveler/autopilot might save you >> in you >> lost your >> only attitude source. >> Ron Lee >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Timothy E. Cone >> *To:* rv-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 9:48 PM >> *Subject:* Re: RV-List: Efis question >> >> Since when is a loss of ADI or artificial horizon an >> automatic trip to the morgue? >> Don't they teach "partial panel" anymore? >> >> * >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >> * >> >> * >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >> * >> >> * >> >> >> * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:56 AM PST US From: Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? Sounds about right to me, I can not get a 2X4 under the wheel pant either. I use 1/2" aluminum angle as a wheel chock. Even that is a tight fit! Bob RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West" At 10:29 AM 9/23/08, you wrote: > > > I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 >per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. > I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock >when the plane is down on the tail. > I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have >their wheel pants this low? > >-- > >George H. Inman >ghinman@mts.net > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:36 AM PST US From: "Richard Dudley" Subject: RV-List: Instrument Refresher Simulator and Joy Stick for sale I no longer have need for these. Software and Pilot's Operating Handbook. Instrument Refresher Simulator by ASA Interactive Products. Like new. Requires joystick. I'll sell for $40. It cost me $74. See attachment. High end joystick. By CH Products Flight Simulator and Gaming Gear. Called "Flightstick". USB interface to computer. Recommended for IPC Instrument Refresher Simulator. In original box with software. Like new. I'll sell the joystick for $50.It cost me $85. For details, see: http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/4128 RHDudley RV-6A flying and for sale ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:02 AM PST US From: HCRV6@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? I installed my RV-6's wheel pants also per Van's instructions and cannot get any standard chocks under them. I made some "U" shaped chocks from 3/4 PVC pipe and elbows that work great and weigh next to nothing. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, flying - 516 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: George Inman 204 287 8334 > > > > I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 > per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. > I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock > when the plane is down on the tail. > I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have > their wheel pants this low? > > -- > > George H. Inman > ghinman@mts.net > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:04 PM PST US From: bert murillo Subject: Re: RV-List: Radio Problem Walt: I have kind of same problem, untill I discovered it was the way I con trol the Intercom...I had it too much to the noise side....play with the Interco m, next time you are flying, ( ofcurse, in non congested area OK?) It worked for me now no more noise on radio..... - robert --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jerry Grimmonpre wrote: From: Jerry Grimmonpre Subject: Re: RV-List: Radio Problem Walt ... you could run this by the Aeroelectric List at--- aeroelectr ic-list@matronics.com---- and Bob Nuckolls could suggest some thing s to try. Bob is very good at finding the mysteries of black art.- Let us know what happens.- Good luck, Jerry- > Guys, I have an Apollo SL-30 in my RV-8 which has a rather > unique (to me anyway) problem; on the ground, even with the > engine running at high rpm, the radio works flawlessly, in the > air it's a different story. As soon as I take off, a loud > background noise begins which makes receiving transmissions > nearly impossible. Usually, sometime during the flight, this > noise goes away and the reception is crystal clear! > > I have a belly mounted Comant-bent whip antenna. Coax > connections are tight. Any ideas of what the problem is? > > Walt Shipley =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:06 PM PST US From: bert murillo Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question -Quesstion again,:- what are people that have installed the EFIS,- do ... Robert --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Ron,- That is- a great point. - Jim RV9a building - MN ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Bert, if you are IMC and all you have is an EFIS for spatial orientation and you lose it then most likely within a minute or two you will enter uncontrolled flight and will soon be dead. - People...think about what you are doing. - Ron Lee - - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 9/22/2008 6:39 AM =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:22 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Efis question Just look at the panel of any small certified EFIS equipped airplane. They all have a steam gage attitude gyro, altimeter, and ASI. Of course you could install one of those cute single instrument electronic standby gyros they install on the big iron, about 20k I think. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Quesstion again,: what are people that have installed the EFIS, do... Robert --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Ron, That is a great point. Jim RV9a building - MN ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Bert, if you are IMC and all you have is an EFIS for spatial orientation and you lose it then most likely within a minute or two you will enter uncontrolled flight and will soon be dead. People...think about what you are doing. Ron Lee href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 9/22/2008 6:39 AM 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:03 PM PST US From: "Richard McBride" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? George, My -8 wheel pants are the same way. No way will a 2x4 fit behind the tire. Mine seem to be lower in the back compared to most others I've looked at. I have flown on grass strips many, many times with no problem. The only issue I have is getting into hangars that have steel angle installed on the floor as a door track. The back of my pant can't clear these tracks without putting down some type of ramp. I've scarred the bottom rear of my pants numerous times. Rick McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: George Inman 204 287 8334 To: RV-list matronics Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? > I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock when the plane is down on the tail. I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have their wheel pants this low? -- George H. Inman ghinman@mts.net http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:04 PM PST US From: Paul Rice Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil leak Hey John=2C I have a TMX IO360 and have the same problem. I already replaced the pump o nce=2C and the new one is doing the same thing. I've retorqued the screws a nd bolts=2C but that has not solved the problem. I have to do some researc h to find a differend pump as well as call Mattituck and talk to them about it. Mine is also not leaking enough that I worry about it in flight=2C bu t I do have to clean the belly a lot. Let us know how you make out. From: december29@bellsouth.netTo: rv-list@matronics.comSubject: RV-List: Oi l leakDate: Sat=2C 20 Sep 2008 14:43:40 -0400 Hi all=2C Searched the archives but have a "new" oil leak location. Anyone had one on the mechanical fuel pump? I have a total of 58 hours on the pump and it appears that the oil is wicking out of the top of the stainless screws tha t sandwich the whole pump together. First off=2C are they supposed to be s afety wired=2C because mine are not (came from the "factory" that way). The aft face of the engine that the pump mounts to is dry. It is not a big leak=2C but one just the same. I will try the solvent an d Dr. Scholl's to confirm. But anyone with something like this? Very lubed=2C John N802RJ "Rockin' Robin" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:57 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: RE: RV-List: Efis question Robert - I installed AFS-3500 & -3400 (both with internal backup batteries), TruTrak ADI with internal GPS and backup battery, TruTrak Digiflight VSGV, round ASI, round Altimeter. But I'm not flying yet. Neal RV-7 N8ZG From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Quesstion again,: what are people that have installed the EFIS, do... Robert --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Ron, That is a great point. Jim RV9a building - MN ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Lee Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Bert, if you are IMC and all you have is an EFIS for spatial orientation and you lose it then most likely within a minute or two you will enter uncontrolled flight and will soon be dead. People...think about what you are doing. Ron Lee href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 9/22/2008 6:39 AM D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:46 PM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate I had two plates crack on my 8A. I modified the cowl intake (more forward) and have a scat hose connection to the airbox. I assumed the added weight of the hose was causing the problem. I made a plate out of .032" stainless steel - problem solved. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (450 hrs) RV-10 (fuselage) From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate We made our second one out of 0.090 material.... _____ From: ferrerg@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:37 AM Subject: RV-List: Air Box Mounting Plate The last two times that I did my conditional inspection I found that my air box mounting aluminum plate was cracked. The first time I made a new mounting plate and tried to eliminate as many stress risers as I could. But it cracked again. This time I'm having a machine shop cut the rear hole behind the carburetor air intake (needed to clear the rear part of the carburetor) with a water cutting tool. I'm hoping that a smoother cut will prevent stress risers. Does anyone have any suggestions that may prevent the cracking? -- Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX South Florida's Treasure Coast email: ferrerg@comcast.net cell: 561 758 8894 ========== //www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ========== ics.com ========== matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:39 PM PST US From: "John Danielson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? My wheel pants also had the same problem, couldn=92t clear the angle on the bottom of my door. I ended up always backing my plane in by lifting the tail to clear. When I finally wore the original tire out, I replaced them with retreads and the tires just happen to be taller by =BD=94 to =BE=94. This allowed the rear of the wheel pants to clear the angle. John L. Danielson _____ From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard McBride Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? George, My -8 wheel pants are the same way. No way will a 2x4 fit behind the tire. Mine seem to be lower in the back compared to most others I've looked at. I have flown on grass strips many, many times with no problem. The only issue I have is getting into hangars that have steel angle installed on the floor as a door track. The back of my pant can't clear these tracks without putting down some type of ramp. I've scarred the bottom rear of my pants numerous times. Rick McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: George Inman 204 287 8334 Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock when the plane is down on the tail. I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have their wheel pants this low? -- George H. Inman http://www.matronics.nbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com nbsp; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ==== =========== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:55 PM PST US From: rveighta Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? This seems to be a universal problem with the Van's tail draggers. My 8 is the same; I taxi across about 100' of grass to get to my airpark's runway and I get a collection of grass inside the rear half of the pants everytime. Walt Shipley -----Original Message----- >From: HCRV6@comcast.net >Sent: Sep 23, 2008 1:38 PM >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel pants too low? > > >I installed my RV-6's wheel pants also per Van's instructions and cannot get any standard chocks under them. I made some "U" shaped chocks from 3/4 PVC pipe and elbows that work great and weigh next to nothing. > >-- >Harry Crosby >RV-6 N16CX, flying - 516 hours > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: George Inman 204 287 8334 >> >> >> >> I installed the wheel pants on my RV-8 >> per Van's directions,but I think they may be too low. >> I cannot get a 2X4 underneath the back for a wheel chock >> when the plane is down on the tail. >> I will be using a grass strip so have concerns.Do others have >> their wheel pants this low? >> >> -- >> >> George H. Inman >> ghinman@mts.net >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:57 PM PST US From: FASTPILOTRV8@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Robert I am flying my RV and I do agree with Neal's statement below. I do have a 2 1/4 TruTrak ADI with a backup battery plus its own GPS and it works great . It is also nice to have a cross check to my OP Technologies EFIS GPS Tracking number. and that Tracking number on the TruTrak ADI . I do have to admit that when I am flying the GPS Tracking Degree number on the TruTrak ADI , TruTrak Autopilot and the OP Technologies EFIS is seldom the match. Don't know why but they are always a degree or two off. Dane N838RV RV8a In a message dated 9/23/2008 4:09:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, n8zg@mchsi.com writes: Robert =93 I installed AFS-3500 & -3400 (both with internal backup batteries), TruTrak ADI with internal GPS and backup battery, TruTrak Digiflight VSGV, round ASI , round Altimeter. But I=99m not flying yet Neal RV-7 N8ZG From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bert murillo Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Quesstion again,: what are people that have installed the EFIS, do... Robert --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: From: Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Ron, That is a great point. Jim RV9a building - MN ----- Original Message ----- From: _Ron Lee_ (mailto:ronlee@pcisys.net) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Bert, if you are IMC and all you have is an EFIS for spatial orientation and you lose it then most likely within a minute or two you will enter uncontrolled flight and will soon be dead. People...think about what you are doing. Ron Lee href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com /Nav igator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ____________________________________ 9/22/2008 6:39 AM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips a nd calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:09 PM PST US From: FASTPILOTRV8@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question My 2 1/4" ADI, 2 1/4" Altimeter and 2 1/4" Airspeed is my partial panel. (plus an old battery operator Garmin 95 GPS ) Dane N838RV RV8a In a message dated 9/22/2008 10:50:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tcone1@comcast.net writes: Since when is a loss of ADI or artificial horizon an automatic trip to the morgue? Don't they teach "partial panel" anymore? ----- Original Message ----- From: _David Maib_ (mailto:dmaib@mac.com) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question That is true whether it is an EFIS or a "steam gauge" attitude indicator that is your sole spatial orientation reference. David Maib On Sep 22, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty wrote: Ron, That is a great point. Jim RV9a building - MN ----- Original Message ----- From: _Ron Lee_ (mailto:ronlee@pcisys.net) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:25 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Efis question Bert, if you are IMC and all you have is an EFIS for spatial orientation and you lose it then most likely within a minute or two you will enter uncontrolled flight and will soon be dead. People...think about what you are doing. Ron Lee href="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) href="_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) ">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) href="_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/c_ (http://www.matronics.com/c) ____________________________________ 9/22/2008 6:39 AM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. 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